19:04:46 RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra 19:04:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-ws-ra-irc 19:04:48 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:04:48 Zakim has joined #ws-ra 19:04:50 Zakim, this will be WSRA 19:04:50 ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 26 minutes 19:04:51 Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference 19:04:51 Date: 13 October 2009 19:22:45 fmaciel has joined #ws-ra 19:24:04 dug has joined #ws-ra 19:25:55
  • li has joined #ws-ra 19:26:05 Bob has joined #ws-ra 19:26:18 Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra 19:26:29 trackbot, start telecon 19:26:31 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:26:33 Zakim, this will be WSRA 19:26:33 ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 19:26:34 Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference 19:26:34 Date: 13 October 2009 19:27:10 WS_WSRA()3:30PM has now started 19:27:17 +??P0 19:27:35 +[IBM] 19:27:36 zakim, ??P0 is Bob 19:27:36 +Bob; got it 19:27:48 zakim, IBM is Doug 19:27:48 +Doug; got it 19:28:01 zakim, Doug is Dug 19:28:01 +Dug; got it 19:28:16 + +39.331.574.aaaa 19:28:41 + +0759029aabb 19:29:00 Vikas has joined #ws-ra 19:29:12 + +91.98.49.99.aacc 19:29:34 + +1.571.262.aadd 19:30:14 + +1.408.970.aaee 19:30:44 +Wu_Chou 19:31:06 gpilz has joined #ws-ra 19:31:34 +gpilz 19:31:36 + +0208234aaff 19:31:46 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Oct/0019.html 19:31:56 +Tom_Rutt 19:31:57 -Tom_Rutt 19:31:59 Wu has joined #ws-ra 19:32:22 Katy has joined #ws-ra 19:32:28 zakim, +39.331.574.aaaa is asoldano 19:32:28 +asoldano; got it 19:32:41 asir has joined #ws-ra 19:32:44 +Yves 19:32:58 +Tom_Rutt 19:33:22 +[Microsoft] 19:33:22 Ram has joined #ws-ra 19:33:35 zakim, Microsoft is asir, ram 19:33:35 I don't understand 'Microsoft is asir, ram', asir 19:35:08 Is that working 19:35:20 yes 19:35:33 Did you see this? 19:35:37 yes I see it 19:36:04 test 19:36:42 Here is another one... 19:36:43 how do i get one of those clients? :-) 19:37:01 maybe his terminal is stuck 19:37:49 scribe: Wu Chou 19:38:08 Sreed has joined #ws-ra 19:38:36 Add issue 7553 to discussion today 19:38:48 Agenda agreed 19:40:05 F2F minutes accepted and go final 19:40:52 q+ 19:41:09 ack gpil 19:41:25 Please register to W3C meeting in Nov. 19:41:43
  • i had nightmare with paypal too in the past 19:41:44 Gil: problem with paypal payment for registration 19:42:25 Gil - can Jeff pay for you? 19:42:52 Yves: please send email to w3c admin for help. 19:43:29 Bob: Meeting is on Thursday/Friday of that week and may run to the end of the day. 19:43:54 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7791 19:43:55 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7791 19:43:59 Bob: new issue 7791 from Paul 19:44:47 Bob: no objection, issue 7791 is open. 19:45:06 spies? 19:45:18 dug, most probably yes :) 19:45:46 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7811 19:45:48 Bob: next new issue 7811 19:47:03 Katy: issue is more editorial regarding to use generic SOAP fault 19:47:25 Bob: no objection, issue 7811 is openned. 19:48:01 Ram: we need more concrete proposal and some study. 19:48:31 Katy: It would be good if someone else can take a closer look. 19:48:56 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7812 19:49:00 Ram: Certainly, we should accept this issue and do some work. 19:49:14 Bob: new issue 7812 19:50:26 Bob: no objection, issue 7812 is resolved with the proposal. 19:51:13 Bob: new issue 7827 from Katy. 19:51:30 DaveS has joined #ws-ra 19:51:43 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7827 19:52:42 sounds reasonable 19:53:13 Bob: no objection, issue 7827 is resolved with the proposal. 19:53:28 Bob: new issue 7828 19:53:55 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7828 19:55:03 q+ 19:55:05 q+ 19:55:15 ack gpi 19:56:25 q+ 19:56:32 ack dug 19:56:32 related to issue 7588 and Action 113 19:56:34 Gil: I owe group a proposal and my proposal will conform it. 19:56:45 ack ram 19:57:06 dug: prefer to have chang first. 19:57:45 Bob: no objection, issue 7828 is open. It will be reviewed later. 19:58:22 dug: issue 5724 propose close without action. 19:58:33 s/5724/6724/ 19:58:43 Bob: no objection, issue 6724 is closed without action. 19:59:19 Bob: issue 7553 proposal? 19:59:36 q+ 19:59:44 One more comment: I will ask that the specification clearly specify what the fault sub codes are when the generic fault is raised. That way, it is clear to the implementor what the interoperable behavior is. 19:59:48 Katy: mostly resolved at F2F and working on detailed text. 20:01:49 q+ 20:01:55 Bob: have you looked at Ram suggestions? 20:02:02 ack ram 20:02:20 Katy: it looks good. 20:03:14 Ram: Suggest to clear identify the condition of the fault sub-code. 20:03:29 q?\ 20:03:42 ack gpi 20:03:54 q+ 20:04:47 ack ram 20:05:02 gpilz: it seems issue with the direction with that two sentences. 20:05:39 ram: how about we work with Katy on the proposal and agree with gil's comment. 20:06:09 bob: issue 6411, no way to create metadata from dug. 20:06:16
  • http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6411 20:06:39 dug: propose to close issue 6411 with no action. 20:06:57 bob: hear no objection. issue 6411 closed with no action. 20:06:58 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Oct/0018.html 20:07:56 q+ 20:08:29 q+ 20:08:47 ack gp 20:08:58 dug: all needs are qname and the proposal is qute straightforward. 20:09:55 ack dave 20:10:26 s/qute/quite 20:10:42 q+ 20:11:04 daveS: not sure if this is policy concept and looks more of metadata conecpt. 20:11:45 ack dug 20:11:49 daveS: the issue has some peices to break down. 20:12:43 q+ 20:12:47 dug: not sure if it is policy or not. Open to suggestions if it is better. 20:12:49 ack asir 20:13:05 asir: need more time to think about it. 20:13:21 bob: one week time and put in next week call. 20:16:47 q+ 20:16:53 bob: issue 7015 20:16:54 ack dug 20:17:32 dug: not aware with the interoperablity issue of this type problem. 20:17:49 q+ 20:18:01 ack ram 20:18:02 q+ 20:18:15 dug: propose to close issue 7015 without action. 20:18:53 q+ 20:19:26 ack gpi 20:19:41 http://mp.ws-i.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpwg/email/archives/200910/msg00077.html 20:19:50 http://www.wstf.org/docs/scenarios/sc003/endpoints 20:19:55 ram: propose to specify the implementation more clearly on relying wsa:action. 20:20:49 gpilz: did not see the sign of problem in this direction of action and body. 20:20:52 ack dave 20:22:49 q+ 20:22:53 Vikas has joined #ws-ra 20:23:02 ack yves 20:23:13 daveS: not clear what is special with transfer that needs this information. 20:23:53 ack tom 20:23:54 yves: needs a good story of the body wrapper. 20:24:28 dave 20:24:32 q+ 20:24:41 tom: agree with dug and not seeing problem. 20:24:54 ack dave 20:25:16 q+ 20:25:54 ack yves 20:26:04 q+ 20:26:43 yves: we need to say what should happen if there is a discrepency between action/body. 20:26:56 ack gpi 20:27:08 http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/edcopies/wst.html#Get 20:27:25 gpilz: yves issue may be addressed in another issue. 20:28:26 ack asir 20:28:30 and what if they don't do what we tell them to do in this fault case? how recursive do we get? 20:28:33 gpilz: there is a limit to spec what it should do. 20:28:56 asir: we are happy to work with yves to have a proposal. 20:29:52 bob: sounds there is a separate issue and happy yves and ram to work on a separate new issue to addrss it. 20:29:57 I have looked at Transfer and I will not be raising an issue on fault a missmatch. 20:30:16 q+ for clarification 20:30:47 ack tom 20:30:47 Tom_Rutt, you wanted to discuss clarification 20:30:52 - +91.98.49.99.aacc 20:31:01 q+ 20:31:20 q+ 20:31:23 ack asir 20:31:29 ack wu 20:31:42
  • wu: it's a good idea for yves and ram to work on the issues 20:32:04 asir: suggest to keep both open and discuss together. 20:32:17
  • ...asir's idea is good to keep both open until a good solution. 20:32:23 q+ 20:32:27 suggest to open a new issue, and make 7015 depends on the new issue 20:32:34 closing the new issue will close 7015 20:32:43 that's backwards 20:33:03 the new issue exists only if there is a unique soap:Body for each operation 20:33:07 + +91.98.49.99.aagg 20:33:20 if all the soap:Body's are the same, the new issue doesn't exist 20:33:53 q+ 20:34:01 well if the resolution of the new issue is satifactory to the people who raised 7015... (that I can't say ;) ) 20:34:25 bob: the new issue will depend on resolution issue 7015, is it right? 20:35:00 ack dave 20:35:25 7015 depends on the new issue, rather than the other way around 20:35:35 q+ to ask Dave a clarification question 20:35:48 ack gp 20:35:49 q- 20:36:03 ack asir 20:36:03 asir, you wanted to ask Dave a clarification question 20:37:26 daveS: it is clear from the spec that this should not cause problem. 20:37:36 q+ 20:38:02 bob: this issue is independent of issue 7015. 20:38:09 ack asir 20:38:24 asir: we don't these issues are independent. 20:38:39 bob: at this point the issue is not raised yet. 20:39:31 I'd prefer if we talked about the issue in front of us and not some other, yet to be opened, issue. If this issue needs to morph then CWNA and open a new one. 20:39:45 q+ 20:40:33 the issue about discrepancy between body and action is because of the duplication of action as a body element 20:40:59 q- 20:41:06 q+ 20:41:11 yves- your issue would exist even if the Body were static across all ops - it could still be mismatched. 20:41:29 ack dave 20:41:43 as Dave said, the wsa:Action could be "Foo" 20:41:47 dug, agreed, if you duplicate action functionnality in body, you always have the issue 20:42:02 no, duping action has nothing to do with this 20:42:03 daveS: if we resolve to clarify the fault behavor, would it resolve the issue? 20:42:04 if you just have action, you don't have that kind of issue 20:42:14 it has nothing to do with the value of soap:Body - it's about whether or not it matches what the spec says 20:42:31 no matter what wrapper you put in the body you could has the wrong wrapper - hence the issue 20:42:51 well, the issue is that you need a wrapper ;) 20:43:36 bob: we have the statement of issue here, where interoperability is the issue. 20:44:17 bob: first question if the interoperability described is real. 20:45:05 q+ 20:45:56 ack dave 20:46:11 asir: the use of single wrapper should not be a issue, since the wrapper does not carry any information. 20:46:31 q+ 20:47:05 daveS: as spec being written, it should not cause interoperability for complaint implementation. 20:47:09 +1 to Dave 20:47:13 +1 from me too 20:47:16 ack asir 20:47:34 "The Get request message MUST be of the following form:...." 20:48:10 will compliant implementation _detect_ non compliant messages? 20:48:47 neither detection nor reporting are part of the spec today 20:49:14 and SOAP doesn't say what happens if I send random ASCII to a SOAP endpoint 20:49:54 q+ 20:49:56 gil, yes: "Any other malformation of the message construct MUST result in the generation of a fault " 20:50:08 ack asir 20:50:39 asir: both yeves and I propose to coming back with some text on this issue. 20:51:07 yves: closing this one with no action will not make the point. 20:51:18 q+ 20:51:37 bob: how many days to come back with a proposal, asir/yves? 20:51:55 asir: we will try to next week. 20:52:45 q+ 20:53:13 ack dug 20:53:54 +1 to diug. The new issue applies to all the specs. They should be separate. 20:54:18 q+ 20:54:19 ack gp 20:54:37 dug: yves is a separate issue and it should open it separately. 20:54:58 issue action and wrapper differ 20:55:10 proposal: when that occurs throw a sender fault 20:55:23 bob, 22 should be fine by me, but if you want to do smething before that :) 20:56:22 bob: will be a new proposal or new issue? 20:56:33 yves: it is about my issue. 20:58:03 asir: yves and I working on the new issue which will lead to a concensus solution to issue 7015. 20:59:04 bob: the action is: yves and asir have a proposal on Oct. 22. 21:00:25 q+ 21:00:58 -Wu_Chou 21:00:59 -[Microsoft] 21:01:00 - +1.571.262.aadd 21:01:01 - +1.408.970.aaee 21:01:01 - +91.98.49.99.aagg 21:01:02 - +0759029aabb 21:01:04 -Tom_Rutt 21:01:05 -Dug 21:01:05 rrsagent, generate minutes 21:01:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob 21:01:06 -Yves 21:01:09 - +0208234aaff 21:01:10 -asoldano 21:01:30 -gpilz 21:06:30 disconnecting the lone participant, Bob, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM 21:06:31 WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended 21:06:33 Attendees were Bob, Dug, +0759029aabb, +91.98.49.99.aacc, +1.571.262.aadd, +1.408.970.aaee, Wu_Chou, gpilz, +0208234aaff, Tom_Rutt, asoldano, Yves, [Microsoft], +91.98.49.99.aagg 21:22:05 gpilz has left #ws-ra 21:22:38 rrsagent, generate minutes 21:22:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob 23:10:53 Zakim has left #ws-ra