13:47:36 AOB: Does it make sense to discuss the entailment regime-URIs today?.... I ask because there would be a RIF call today, and, if I want to poke them, I should maybe start in that call (would need to leave early then...), cf. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0084.html 13:56:51 There are several thing on the agenda that look like long and important. 13:59:51 zakim, where are you? 13:59:51 I don't understand your question, LukeWM. 14:00:03 zakim, ??P?? is me 14:00:03 sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '??P??' 14:00:18 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:18 sorry, AndyS, I don't know what conference this is 14:00:19 On IRC I see bglimm, LukeWM, Zakim, AxelPolleres, AndyS, SimonS, LeeF, SteveH, ivan, iv_an_ru, pgearon, KjetilK, kjetil, ericP, AlexPassant, kasei, trackbot 14:00:36 zakim, this is sparql 14:00:36 ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 14:00:39 +bglimm 14:00:44 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:45 On the phone I see ??P24, kasei, +7.950.aaaa, bglimm 14:00:52 zakim, ??P24 is me 14:00:52 +AndyS; got it 14:00:52 Zakim, mute me 14:00:53 bglimm should now be muted 14:01:06 Zakim, mute me 14:01:06 kasei should now be muted 14:01:35 +AxelPolleres 14:01:52 zakim, dial ivan-voip 14:02:02 ok, ivan; the call is being made 14:02:04 +Ivan 14:02:26 +SimonS 14:03:32 hey, everyone 14:03:34 sorry i'm late 14:03:35 dialing in now 14:03:55 Agenda is here (with additions from andy): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0136.html 14:04:08 does anyone know how to make the ?? stuff appear on the phone? 14:04:26 except zakim isn't working for me 14:04:32 Lee, I cannot here you 14:04:41 Not on the phone yet, trying to connect 14:04:43 hmmm 14:05:02 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:05:02 On the phone I see AndyS, kasei (muted), +7.950.aaaa, bglimm (muted), AxelPolleres, Ivan, SimonS 14:05:02 ah 14:05:04 +LeeF 14:05:06 LikeWM, "?? stuff"? 14:05:07 yes 14:05:48 kasei, the code that identifies us to zakim. Is there something I can type into the phone keypad to make it appear on IRC? 14:05:57 it's something like #41 14:06:00 41#, I think 14:06:16 hrmm 14:06:27 Topic: Administation 14:06:34 scribe:AndyS 14:06:44 scribenick:AndyS 14:07:05 +Chimezie_Ogbuji 14:07:08 LeeF: for now, move admin to later 14:07:26 Topic: FPWD 14:07:38 Chair: LeeF 14:08:14 Zakim, unmute me 14:08:14 bglimm should no longer be muted 14:08:18 LeeF: W3C typical model for FPWD is to publish something on time, with issues, but no sense of complete 14:08:24 zakim, mute me 14:08:24 AndyS should now be muted 14:08:42 I still have no CVS access (can connect, but have no rights to see the relevant folder) 14:08:42 ... good to publish in advance of ISWC 14:08:54 ... one hour panel on SPARQL at ISWC 14:08:58 Zakim, mute me 14:08:58 bglimm should now be muted 14:09:07 ... so generate community interest 14:09:17 ... publish as many docs as possible 14:10:08 ... the naming/versioing issue -- need to clarify. Individual drafts numbered (agreed F2F) 14:10:23 ... then a chair talked about SPARQL 2.0 14:10:54 ... and the individual docs having different numbers has been shown to be confusing 14:11:27 q+ 14:11:43 ack SteveH 14:11:43 ... may get worse with future doc versions 14:12:04 SteveH, are you talking? 14:12:07 yes 14:12:08 zakim, who's on the phone? 14:12:08 On the phone I see AndyS (muted), kasei (muted), +7.950.aaaa, bglimm (muted), AxelPolleres, Ivan, SimonS, LeeF, Chimezie_Ogbuji 14:12:11 Zakim, unmute me 14:12:11 sorry, SteveH, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:12:15 aaah 14:12:37 zakim, who is speaking 14:12:37 I don't understand 'who is speaking', LukeWM 14:13:00 SteveH: The multi-version thing is confusing - feedback from colleagues. 14:13:13 ... one label for the whole package 14:13:25 Zakim, who is talking 14:13:25 I don't understand 'who is talking', LukeWM 14:13:40 ... if SPARQL 2.0, then use that not doc versions. 14:13:40 Zakim, who is talking? 14:13:44 +1 for SPARQL2010 14:13:50 LukeWM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +7.950.aaaa (14%), LeeF (42%) 14:13:52 ... suggest SPARQL-2010 style 14:14:05 q+ 14:14:07 q+ 14:14:13 zakim, unmute me 14:14:13 AndyS was not muted, AndyS 14:14:21 ack AndyS 14:14:39 ack ivan 14:14:40 zakim, mute me 14:14:40 AndyS should now be muted 14:14:41 zakim, Garlik is 7.950.aaaa 14:14:41 sorry, LukeWM, I do not recognize a party named 'Garlik' 14:14:51 zakim, aaaa is Garlik 14:14:51 +Garlik; got it 14:15:02 thanks LeeF 14:15:03 zakim, Garlik has SteveH, LukeWM 14:15:03 +SteveH, LukeWM; got it 14:15:27 +1 to ivan 14:15:29 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-05-06#resolution_3 14:15:32 ack AxelPolleres 14:15:36 Ivan: no strong feelings but SPARQL-2.0 so SPARQL-2.0/Update 14:16:16 Axel: (reminder of discussion) 14:16:54 does ivan's idea get weird if later on query is updated, and everything else without changes gets a version bump, too (so maybe update 1.1 == update 2.0)?? 14:17:29 seems like it gets weird either way. 14:17:34 that's why I prefer years 14:17:38 q+ 14:17:53 heh 14:17:55 ack ivan 14:18:21 ivan: if touch one, touch everything in practice so can happen but less likely 14:18:32 ... breaks the W3C style. 14:18:41 ... not been done before 14:18:47 zakim, unmute me 14:18:47 AndyS should no longer be muted 14:19:03 What speaks against going uniformly with 1.1 (looks like a compromise)? 14:19:31 ivan: XML was special -- other specs have used version by number OK 14:19:41 s/XML/XHTML/ 14:20:10 SPARQL1.1/Query SPARQL1.1/Update ... instead of SPARQL/Query 1.1 SPARQL/Update 1.0, etc. 14:20:10 LeeF: propose SPARQL-X/Query etc 14:20:17 +1 14:20:19 PROPOSED: To give this round of SPARQL work its own name and name the components based on that 14:20:20 +1 14:20:28 +1 14:20:28 +1 14:20:29 +1 14:20:34 0 14:20:41 yes 14:20:41 +1 (if promised we stick with that ;-) ) 14:20:47 RESOLVED: To give this round of SPARQL work its own name and name the components based on that, bglimm abstaining 14:20:48 I have no strong opinion on any 14:20:58 What is X? 14:20:59 1.1 14:21:00 2.0 14:21:01 2 14:21:04 2010 14:21:41 zakim, unmute me 14:21:41 AndyS was not muted, AndyS 14:21:44 q+ 14:21:48 ack AndyS 14:22:25 AndyS: SPARQL-2012 and publish early 14:22:44 pref for 2 not 2.0 14:22:46 q+ 14:22:50 ack SteveH 14:23:08 q+ 14:24:04 ivan: cautious about 2010 style 14:24:09 ack SimonS 14:24:23 Zakim, what is the code? 14:24:23 the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), KjetilK 14:24:32 +??P2 14:24:39 Zakim, ??P2 is me 14:24:39 +KjetilK; got it 14:24:39 q+ 14:24:46 acl AxelPolleres 14:24:49 ack AxelPolleres 14:25:30 Zakim, mute me 14:25:30 KjetilK should now be muted 14:25:43 strawpoll 14:26:02 straw poll: SPARQL 1.1 14:26:04 +1 14:26:05 +1 14:26:05 0 14:26:07 0 14:26:07 +1 14:26:07 +1 14:26:08 +0 14:26:09 0 14:26:13 +1 14:26:13 +1 14:26:14 0 14:26:25 1.1 - 6 +1s 14:26:41 straw poll: SPARQL 2 (or 2.0) 14:26:44 -1 14:26:45 0 14:26:50 -1 14:26:50 0 14:26:50 0 14:26:50 1 14:26:51 -1 14:26:51 +1 14:26:52 +1 (pref 2) 14:26:52 0 14:26:53 0 14:27:05 less support for 2/2.0 then for 1.1 14:27:09 straw poll: SPARQL 2010 14:27:11 +1 14:27:12 +1 14:27:12 -1 14:27:13 0 14:27:13 -1 14:27:13 +1 14:27:14 +1 14:27:14 0 14:27:15 0 14:27:15 0 14:27:19 -1 14:27:50 PROPOSED: The current work be known as SPARQL 1.1 with the components being SPARQL 1.1 Query, SPARQL 1.1 Update, SPARQL 1.1 Protocol, etc. 14:27:58 seconded 14:28:03 +1 14:28:15 +1 14:28:17 +1 14:28:18 RESOLVED: The current work be known as SPARQL 1.1 with the components being SPARQL 1.1 Query, SPARQL 1.1 Update, SPARQL 1.1 Protocol, etc. 14:28:23 action: andy and steve: update the query document for SPARQL 1.1 (Query) before FPWD 14:28:23 Created ACTION-119 - And steve: update the query document for SPARQL 1.1 (Query) before FPWD [on Andy Seaborne - due 2009-10-20]. 14:28:26 ACTION: Lee to fix his slides 14:28:29 Created ACTION-120 - Fix his slides [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-10-20]. 14:28:45 q+ 14:28:47 Query is already 1.1 14:28:55 ACTION: Eric and Lee to make sure FPWD documents reflect SPARQL 1.1 X style naming 14:28:55 Created ACTION-121 - And Lee to make sure FPWD documents reflect SPARQL 1.1 X style naming [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-10-20]. 14:28:59 but written wrongly 14:29:02 ah, ok 14:29:04 what about drafts that don't reference SPARQL __? is a change neccessary? 14:29:45 zakim, unmute me 14:29:45 AndyS was not muted, AndyS 14:29:47 q+ 14:30:22 +1 to ivan 14:30:27 it has mappings to the update language 14:30:40 q- 14:31:03 ack AndyS 14:31:25 AndyS: the relationship to naming is SPARQL 14:31:56 chimezie: title already problematic: otherwise mostly neutral 14:31:58 i will concurr 14:31:59 short names, some proposals: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/ vs. http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql1.1-query/ vs. http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-1.1-query/ etc. so... there are a couple of options 14:32:16 W3C is usually 11 isn't it? 14:32:22 AndyS: yes 14:32:32 sparql11-query 14:32:35 sparql11-update 14:32:38 sparql11-protocol 14:32:43 sparql11-service-description 14:32:50 sparql11-entailement ? 14:32:52 yuk -> ell-one-one 14:32:56 sparql11-rdf-http-update 14:32:57 but oh well 14:33:45 e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/ 14:33:58 ivan: will check what other groups have done 14:33:59 e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/ 14:34:10 http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/ 14:34:32 Leef: short name style sparql11-xyz 14:34:37 owl2-profiles, owl2-syntax, etc it is for OWL 14:35:03 AndyS: yes, pretty much 14:35:11 Topic: Status of documents 14:35:55 subtopic: SPARQL 1.1 Update 14:35:57 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/ 14:36:12 q+ to point to formalty about query.... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-06#resolution_3 14:36:16 q+ 14:36:25 ack SteveH 14:36:44 SteveH: current form - some contradictions and may confuse. 14:37:38 q- 14:37:50 +Prateek 14:37:54 http://www.w3.org/mid/BD315460-58A8-46BF-8324-FB5D057715A3@garlik.com 14:37:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0041.html 14:39:14 q+ 14:39:34 ack SimonS 14:39:56 SteveH: issues not agreed on are not called out (e.g. issue-20) 14:40:40 SimonS: not a contradiction as such - having trouble getting to W3C to do edits 14:42:12 LeeF: better to publish than polish - if we can identify the areas for issues to be called out as unresolved 14:42:21 SimonS: many changes 14:42:40 ... reorder the doc to follows current SPARQL spec 14:42:58 ... separate issues renamed to features in query 14:43:07 ... inline issues 14:43:14 ... grammar from common grammar 14:43:20 calls out to issues are good, thanks SimonS 14:44:54 (Could the grammar changes be logged so I can test them) 14:46:01 LeeF; all decisions modulo XSLT issues 14:46:14 LeeF: all decisions modulo XSLT issues 14:46:37 ... no red stuff from xmlspec/XSLT processing 14:46:52 ... will roll changes back to editors docs 14:47:44 q+ 14:48:45 I'm happy to do a review 14:50:03 PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/ as FPWD under sparql11-update modulo Luke's approval of Simon's updates to text in section 4 and fixes to xml-spec issues 14:50:11 seconded 14:50:18 +1 14:50:25 +1 14:50:29 +1 (DERI) 14:50:55 +1 (HP) 14:50:59 RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/ as FPWD under sparql11-update modulo Luke's approval of Simon's updates to text in section 4 and fixes to xml-spec issues, no abstentions or objections 14:51:05 q+ to ask about formality wrt query 14:51:19 subtopic: SPARQL/update protocol 14:51:47 subtopic: SPARQL/Query 14:51:52 PROPOSED: That the actual short name under which SPARQL 1.1 Query be published as FPWD is sparql11-query 14:51:56 +1 14:51:59 +1 14:51:59 seconded 14:52:02 as an amendment to resolution http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-06#resolution_3 14:52:05 +1 14:52:12 RESOLVED: That the actual short name under which SPARQL 1.1 Query be published as FPWD is sparql11-query, no abstentions or objections 14:52:16 ack AxelPolleres 14:52:16 AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about formality wrt query 14:52:22 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ 14:52:26 subtopic: SPARQL/update http protocol 14:52:54 chimezie: has addressed comments as best he can - issues highlighted 14:53:18 q+ 14:53:26 I'm happy to publish as is. 14:53:30 I'm happy 14:53:35 ack kjetil 14:54:14 KjetilK: good enough for FPWD - but pref chnage "RDF knowledge" terminology 14:54:46 LeeF: suggestions for different name? 14:55:19 KjetilK: (unclear to scribe) 14:55:26 kjetil: maybe "graph information resource"? 14:57:12 LeeF: terminology can change in later drafts. Flag an issue 14:57:20 ... flag an issue for now 14:57:42 ISSUE: Suitability of term "networked RDF knowledge" 14:57:42 Created ISSUE-44 - Suitability of term "networked RDF knowledge" ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/44/edit . 14:58:09 sparql11-rdf-http-update ? 14:59:18 sparql11-http-update ? 14:59:26 isn't that enough? 14:59:28 with rdf 14:59:41 (not strong) 15:00:07 PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ as sparql11-http-rdf-update modulo any xlm-spec issues 15:00:10 q+ 15:01:00 PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ as FPWD at sparql11-http-rdf-update modulo any xlm-spec issues and adding SPARQL 1.1 to title and cleaning up references 15:01:01 ack ivan 15:01:12 +1 15:01:13 +1 15:01:25 +1 15:01:28 RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ as FPWD at sparql11-http-rdf-update modulo any xlm-spec issues and adding SPARQL 1.1 to title and cleaning up references, no abstentions or objections 15:01:30 +1 (DERI) 15:01:48 subtopic: SPARQL/protocol 15:02:01 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ 15:02:02 what is the URL for that? 15:02:05 thanks 15:02:22 -Chimezie_Ogbuji 15:02:49 LeeF: overall structure OK - need heading for update (language by POST) examples 15:03:04 and it as XML errors 15:03:36 s/as/has/ 15:04:02

? 15:04:31 q+ 15:04:35 ack AxelPolleres 15:04:37 q+ 15:05:07 Zakim, mute me 15:05:09 KjetilK should now be muted 15:05:12 AxelPolleres: include short change log of what's changed since SPARQL Protocol REC 15:06:37 LeeF: 2.2.1.13 - flag for removal 15:06:39 + flag XML input example for removal 15:06:44 + add placeholder for update examples 15:06:49 + change log from REC 15:06:53 + xml-spec issues 15:07:04 + previous editors 15:07:24 AndyS: didn't notice 2.2.1.13 (SPARQL/X usage) last time 15:10:41 + clarify text at beginning of section 2 to summarize what the protocol is all about (queries over HTTP GET and POST, updates over HTTP POST) 15:12:25 PROPOSED: To publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ as FPWD at sparql11-protocol modulo list of changes noted in SPARQL WG 2009-10-13 meeting and modulo Axel's approval 15:12:38 +1 15:12:44 +1 15:12:59 RESOLVED: To publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ as FPWD at sparql11-protocol modulo list of changes noted in SPARQL WG 2009-10-13 meeting and modulo Axel's approval, no abstentions or objections 15:13:05 ACTION: Axel to check changes on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ as agreed on and mail approval, if satisfied 15:13:05 Could not create new action (failed to parse response from server) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened. 15:13:05 Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: local variable 'd' referenced before assignment) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened. 15:13:14 subtopic: SPARQL/service description 15:13:17 Zakim, unmute me 15:13:17 kasei should no longer be muted 15:13:19 is http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sd.txt still the latest version? 15:13:38 kasei: no CVS access yet 15:14:07 LeeF: modulo putting into W3C format 15:14:48 kasei: superproperty for feature; subproperty of feature language (query and/or update) 15:15:04 ... missing URIs for actual names 15:16:06 LeeF: w3c resource availablity for publishing? 15:16:40 yes 15:16:51 ivan: heard CVS access problems 15:16:58 I can conect to the CVS server, but I cannot access the relevant folde 15:16:59 r 15:17:17 I contacted Eric, but haven't heard from him 15:17:29 gwilliam 15:17:35 BGlimm 15:18:00 bglimm 15:18:05 it is all lowercase 15:18:48 LeeF: publication window for ISWC? 15:19:05 ivan: ISWC. Can publish late next week. 15:19:19 Zakim, mute me 15:19:19 kasei should now be muted 15:19:42 i'd prefer not abbreviating 15:19:55 I am happy with the full thing 15:20:01 PROPOSED: Publish http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sd.txt as FPWD at sparql11-service-description moduloe putting in W3C format 15:20:12 +1 15:20:13 +1 15:20:17 +1 15:20:23 +1 15:20:26 RESOLVED: Publish http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sd.txt as FPWD at sparql11-service-description moduloe putting in W3C format, no abstentions or objections 15:21:56 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:EntailmentRegimes 15:22:09 Zakim, unmute me 15:22:09 bglimm should no longer be muted 15:22:50 q+ 15:22:57 q- 15:23:04 ack AndyS 15:23:32 yes 15:23:36 I agree 15:23:54 AndyS; entailment RDF, RDFS are OK for FPWD 15:23:57 AndyS: entailment RDF, RDFS are OK for FPWD 15:23:59 ack ivan 15:24:11 ... not sections on syntax or extensions 15:24:28 ... lots of discussion that may imply things that are not planned 15:24:42 OWL should also be taken out/left only as a header 15:24:44 ivan: needs adapting to W3C style. 15:24:49 q+ 15:25:40 ack AndyS 15:26:25 Are there other reviewers than Ivan? 15:26:25