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15:59:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-soap-jms-irc
15:59:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:59:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SJMS
15:59:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:28 <trackbot> Meeting: SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group Teleconference
15:59:28 <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2009
15:59:47 <Zakim> WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has now started
15:59:54 <Zakim> +alewis
16:01:09 <Derek> Derek has joined #soap-jms
16:01:30 <Zakim> +padams
16:01:41 <padams> padams has joined #soap-jms
16:02:08 <Zakim> +eric
16:02:29 <mphillip> mphillip has joined #soap-jms
16:02:52 <eric> eric has joined #soap-jms
16:02:58 <Zakim> +Derek
16:03:18 <padams> Zakim, who is here?
16:03:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see alewis, padams, eric, Derek
16:03:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see eric, mphillip, padams, Derek, Zakim, RRSAgent, alewis, trackbot, Yves
16:04:13 <eric> Mark, are you going to join us on the phone?
16:05:05 <mphillip> yes, just dialling 
16:05:18 <Zakim> +mphillip
16:05:56 <eric> Scribe: Mark
16:05:59 <mphillip> TOPIC 1) Appointment of the scribe
16:06:32 <mphillip> TOPIC:  Approval of prior meeting minutes
16:06:32 <mphillip> Last calls:
16:06:32 <mphillip> http://www.w3.org/2009/10/06-soap-jms-minutes.html
16:06:44 <mphillip> No objections to minutes
16:06:59 <mphillip> TOPIC: Review the agenda
16:07:32 <mphillip> No objections to Agenda 
16:07:37 <mphillip> TOPIC: Review action items
16:07:44 <mphillip> Actions: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/soapjms/tracker/actions/open
16:07:55 <mphillip> Eric: No progress on outstanding actions
16:08:02 <mphillip> Derek: Has started on FAQ
16:08:40 <mphillip> Mark: Slow progress should finish action next week
16:08:55 <mphillip> TOPIC: URI specification
16:09:17 <mphillip> Eric: Some progress with Oracle - hoping for more next week
16:09:23 <mphillip> TOPIC: Raised issues
16:09:35 <mphillip> None
16:09:39 <mphillip> TOPIC: Accepting proposals to close open issues
16:09:47 <mphillip> Issue 14: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/soapjms/tracker/issues/14
16:14:21 <mphillip> Discussion on Section 3.4.2: 
16:14:39 <mphillip> Eric: Outlined proposed changes
16:14:49 <mphillip> Mark: Is there an assertion for this?
16:14:55 <mphillip> Eric: No
16:15:28 <mphillip> Phil: ...and that may be OK - if the transport value is not set to that value then it is not SOAP/JMS
16:17:25 <mphillip> Eric: Someone else could invent an alternative SOAP/JMS protocol which uses a different transport, and that would not conform to this spec. 
16:18:19 <mphillip> Amy: There is a core SOAP/JMS binding spec with no Service Description, and 2 optional sections for WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 
16:18:55 <mphillip> Phil: So someone can claim compliance for the core binding spec, but not the extensions?
16:19:01 <mphillip> Amy: Correct
16:20:06 <mphillip> Phil: IBM WebSphere would like to claim compliance for the core spec. without WSDL - only a URI is required by the client
16:21:36 <mphillip> Amy: As long as IBM does not claim compliance for WSDL then that is OK (assuming compliance to the core )
16:22:19 <mphillip> Mark: Our WSDL tests should all check for a valid SOAP/JMS transport value (other values are valid but they would not be compliant, and the test should fail)
16:23:14 <mphillip> Mark: So we should have an assertion for this statement
16:23:39 <mphillip> Phil: What would the assertion say? Shouldn't we document the exception that must be thrown?
16:24:03 <mphillip> Amy: No, failing the assertion just means that the WSDL is not relevant to us 
16:24:25 <mphillip> Phil: So it could be a valid WSDL, but not spec. compliant
16:25:47 <mphillip> Eric: We *could* restate this "the SOAP/JMS binding is in use if, and only if, the transport attribute has the SOAP/JMS value"
16:27:32 <mphillip> Eric: So if IBM was happy with just having a SOAP/JMS URI in the WSDL (and not the transport attribute ) then the IBM implementation would not be compliant with the WSDL extensions in the spec. (but could be compliant with the core)
16:30:44 <mphillip> Eric: But then the WSDL may not be WS-I compliant if it used the SOAP/HTTP value in the transport and a SOAP/JMS URI
16:33:49 <mphillip> Eric: So the question is, should this be a normative statement
16:34:37 <mphillip> Amy: Yes, it gives us a threshold - if the transport is not set to this value then no further checks are required - the WSDL is not conformant to the SOAP/JMS spec. 
16:37:02 <mphillip> Amy: A compliant vendor should not treat a WSDL without this transport value as SOAP/JMS 
16:37:50 <mphillip> Amy: This is a binary on/off switch to determine SOAP/JMS WSDL
16:40:54 <mphillip> All are fine with Eric's proposed wording for 3.4.2
16:42:22 <mphillip> Eric: propose adding a sentence to Section 3.4.5 which mandates a jms: URI in the @location
16:43:57 <mphillip> Mark: This bounds the scope of the spec. to only supporting the URI we have defined - and so is a sensible addition 
16:44:01 <mphillip> Phil: Agreed
16:45:23 <mphillip> Phil: The sentence states "although the "soap" prefix corresponds " - the prefix is not "soap"
16:45:45 <mphillip> action eric to correct the "soap" prefix reference in section 3.4.5 
16:45:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-116 - Correct the "soap" prefix reference in section 3.4.5  [on Eric Johnson - due 2009-10-20].
16:46:41 <mphillip> RESOLUTION: all approve the proposal for 3.4.5
16:49:46 <mphillip> Eric:  propose we make the corresponding changes in Section 3.5 for WSDL2 
16:59:58 <mphillip> Mark Questioning SHOULD vs. MUST on the statement about using URI 
17:00:33 <mphillip> RESOLUTION: All agreed the proposed resolution to Isuue 14
17:00:57 <mphillip> action Phil to make the updates for issue 14
17:00:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Make the updates for issue 14 [on Phil Adams - due 2009-10-20].
17:01:01 <Zakim> -padams
17:01:02 <Zakim> -eric
17:01:03 <Zakim> -Derek
17:01:04 <Zakim> -alewis
17:01:06 <Zakim> -mphillip
17:01:07 <Zakim> WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has ended
17:01:09 <Zakim> Attendees were alewis, padams, eric, Derek, mphillip
17:01:09 <mphillip> Out of time
17:01:35 <mphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-soap-jms-minutes.html mphillip
17:01:36 <mphillip> rrsagent, make log public
17:01:44 <mphillip> rrsagent, publish minutes
17:01:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-soap-jms-minutes.html mphillip
17:04:01 <mphillip>  rrsagent, make log public
17:09:49 <eric> eric has left #soap-jms
17:19:15 <mphillip>  rrsagent, make minutes
17:19:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-soap-jms-minutes.html mphillip
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