11:58:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
11:58:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-mediaann-irc
11:58:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:58:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediaann
11:58:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be MAWG
11:58:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_MAWG()8:00AM already started
11:58:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
11:58:39 <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2009
11:59:01 <joakim> zakim, this is mawg
11:59:01 <Zakim> joakim, this was already IA_MAWG()8:00AM
11:59:02 <Zakim> ok, joakim; that matches IA_MAWG()8:00AM
11:59:19 <joakim> chair: Joakim
11:59:45 <Zakim> +florian
12:00:02 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #mediaann
12:00:14 <Zakim> +Joakim
12:00:21 <Zakim> +wonsuk
12:00:41 <Zakim> +wbailer
12:00:47 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #mediaann
12:01:01 <wonsuk> Present+ wonsuk
12:01:15 <Zakim> + +47.24.4.aaaa
12:02:38 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2009/10/06-mediaann-minutes.html
12:03:13 <joakim> zakim, pick a victim
12:03:13 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chris
12:03:46 <pchampin> scribe: chris
12:03:49 <chris> topic: action items
12:03:56 <joakim> <http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open> 
12:04:47 <chris> action-47 ongoing
12:05:20 <chris> action-124 ongoing
12:06:15 <chris> action 134, 135, and 149 to David are ongoing
12:06:15 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 134,
12:06:38 <chris> action-154 ongoing
12:07:33 <pchampin> can you remind the URI of the current version of the API document?
12:08:05 <cpoppe> cpoppe has joined #mediaann
12:08:43 <joakim> zakim, pick a victim
12:08:43 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Joakim
12:08:49 <joakim> zakim, pick a victim
12:08:49 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose pchampin (muted)
12:08:59 <joakim> thanx
12:09:06 <pchampin> scribe: pchampin
12:09:30 <pchampin> action-157 ongoing
12:10:01 <pchampin> action-158 closed
12:10:02 <trackbot> ACTION-158 Review the API document closed
12:10:21 <pchampin> action-159 closed
12:10:21 <trackbot> ACTION-159 Send review of the API document closed
12:10:41 <pchampin> action-160 closed
12:10:41 <trackbot> ACTION-160 Daniel to send an email to the list to get more feedback and reviews for the API document closed
12:10:58 <pchampin> topic: API document
12:12:00 <pchampin> werner: satisfied with the updates of the documents re. my comments
12:12:19 <pchampin> ... some comments need further discussion in the long term, but do not concern the first draft
12:12:27 <pchampin> ... can be discussed at F2F
12:13:39 <pchampin> joakim: are those remarks to be discussed collected in one e-mail?
12:13:59 <pchampin> werner: no, spread in different places, raised by different persons
12:14:01 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #mediaann
12:14:12 <pchampin> ... may be gathered in a wiki page
12:14:45 <pchampin> action werner and joakim to collect in a wiki page all issues to be discussed at the F2F
12:14:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - And joakim to collect in a wiki page all issues to be discussed at the F2F [on Werner Bailer - due 2009-10-20].
12:15:08 <wonsuk> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html
12:15:20 <wonsuk> Diff between current API doc and old one.
12:15:30 <wonsuk> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html%3Frev%3D1.23%26content-type%3Dtext/html;%2520charset%3Dutf-8%23tbd&doc2=http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html%3Frev%3D1.24%26content-type%3Dtext/html;%2520charset%3Dutf-8%23tbd
12:16:00 <Zakim> +??P6
12:16:12 <pchampin> werner: suggest to move the whole Web IDL code towards the end of the document
12:16:19 <fsasaki> present+ Felix
12:16:34 <pchampin> ... start with individual property descriptions
12:16:55 <pchampin> wonsuk: aggrees, will do that
12:17:27 <joakim> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Oct/0037.html
12:19:45 <pchampin> pchampin: is the NoValue exception really necessary? null value?
12:21:00 <pchampin> chris: created the exception to be able to carry the *reason* for the absence of value (see attribute errorMessage)
12:21:17 <pchampin> pchampin: that makes sense, I retract my comment :)
12:23:32 <Zakim> -Joakim
12:24:07 <Zakim> +Joakim
12:24:37 <joakim> (my line was cut off)
12:25:34 <pchampin> pchampin: I think that the ontology document should stick to a high level conceptual level for the ranges of the properties
12:26:23 <pchampin> ... and that the API document should propose representations for those concepts
12:26:36 <pchampin> ... like the current Web IDL interfaces that we have
12:28:54 <pchampin> ... those interfaces come out of nowhere, they should be introduced (as abstract concepts, in the ontology document)
12:28:59 <joakim> Felix do you have a comment?
12:29:10 <fsasaki> felix: propose to link ma:properties to methods from the api, and the other way round
12:29:24 <fsasaki> .. by "link" I mean referencing to each other 
12:30:14 <fsasaki> felix: probably the same as pchampin said
12:30:37 <pchampin> pchampin: agree with that, and we should do the same for range Concepts 
12:31:11 <wbailer> wiki page for open api issues is at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/API_Open_Issues
12:33:10 <pchampin> joakim: can we publish the API document as a first public working draft
12:33:30 <pchampin> ... after moving the WebIDL section to the appendix?
12:33:32 <pchampin> pchampin: +1
12:33:34 <wonsuk> +1
12:33:36 <florian> +1
12:33:37 <wbailer> +1
12:33:47 <joakim> Are we resolved to publish with the updated Werner
12:33:49 <joakim>  mentioned Any objections?
12:34:15 <pchampin> RESOLUTION: publish the API document as a first public working draft
12:35:02 <pchampin> action joakim to contact W3C staff to put the API working draft on TR
12:35:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Contact W3C staff to put the API working draft on TR [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-10-20].
12:35:33 <pchampin> topic: Why not use DC elements?
12:35:49 <pchampin> joakim: this problem seems to be a recurring comment
12:36:01 <pchampin> ... we should motivate this choice in the documents
12:36:26 <joakim> yes
12:36:37 <pchampin> xxx: this may be because the ma:properties do not have a precise definition
12:36:40 <fsasaki> +1 to werner
12:36:44 <pchampin> ... especially concerning datatypes
12:36:48 <pchampin> s/xxx/werner/
12:37:52 <pchampin> s/especially/e.g./
12:39:04 <pchampin> pchampin: I think there is (and will be) an overlap
12:39:36 <pchampin> werner: overlap yes, but our definitions will eventually be more precise than DC definitions
12:40:12 <pchampin> joakim: felix had another explaination
12:40:23 <fsasaki> felix: my explanation was mainly that we do not want to put one format into the center
12:40:44 <fsasaki> .. but have ma: properties only as a mediator between existing formats
12:40:53 <fsasaki> .. like in the metadata working group
12:42:16 <pchampin> action david to update some of the descriptions to make them more precise and highlight the difference with DC
12:42:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-163 - Update some of the descriptions to make them more precise and highlight the difference with DC [on David Singer - due 2009-10-20].
12:42:46 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Improvements_/_Enhancement_for_a_revision_of_the_%22Ontology_for_Media_Resource_1.0%22_document
12:42:57 <pchampin> action joakim to update the wiki with the rationale for not reusing DC properties
12:42:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-164 - Update the wiki with the rationale for not reusing DC properties [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-10-20].
12:44:22 <fsasaki> felix: sorry, only on IRC: putting one format into the center or not is also a question of marketing, and we want to be as neutral as possible with respect to existing "players" on the market
12:44:46 <fsasaki> felix: agree with pchampin
12:45:04 <pchampin> pchampin: in line with Felix's argument, I think only experience will tell if our interpretation of ma:properties will be equivalent or not with dc:properties
12:47:18 <pchampin> ... semantics of properties is dynamic, it depends on the way they are used or implemented
12:48:05 <pchampin> ... so defining our own is a precaution
12:48:51 <pchampin> topic: coordination with Web Aps
12:49:28 <pchampin> action joakim to send a mail to the wap WG
12:49:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-165 - Send a mail to the wap WG [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-10-20].
12:50:04 <pchampin> joakim: the API document states that this is a client API
12:50:09 <pchampin> ... when did we decide that?
12:50:31 <Zakim> -Felix
12:51:12 <pchampin> wonsuk: this API could be adapted to the server side
12:51:29 <Zakim> + +1.617.588.aabb - is perhaps Jan
12:51:52 <pchampin> ... in the perspective of Web applications, it is more appropriate to the client-side,
12:52:05 <pchampin> ... built into browsers
12:53:27 <pchampin> joakim: feedback from XXX: can I get metadata of a MP3 file without downloading it?
12:53:39 <pchampin> pchampin: +1
12:53:55 <pchampin> pchampin: is there a mapping from Web IDL to server side APIs?
12:54:07 <pchampin> ... (rest or soap)?
12:54:24 <pchampin> chris: only ecmascript or javascript, I think
12:56:03 <pchampin> pchampin: anyway, the object implementing our interface does not have to contain the media data
12:57:38 <pchampin> ... but we have to think about this use case
12:57:51 <pchampin> joakim: all toy implementations to date are server side
12:58:02 <fsasaki> felix: my implementation can easily be ported to be a client side implementation
12:58:09 <fsasaki> .. no problem here :)
12:59:06 <fsasaki> .. rather an implementation detail
12:59:15 <fsasaki> .. not a totally different approach
12:59:25 <pchampin> pchampin: +1 felix
13:00:28 <pchampin> wonsuk: I'll revise the API document and send it to the mailing list
13:00:44 <pchampin> ... apply werner's comment about moving the Web IDL section to the appendix
13:01:39 <pchampin> what is the next step of this document?
13:01:58 <pchampin> joakim: we will try to publish the current version, I'll contact the W3C staff
13:02:27 <pchampin> ... next meeting: next tuesday, same time
13:02:28 <fsasaki> felix: joakim, somebody needs to do the pubrules check, work on the status section. Better ask Thierry to do that
13:02:37 <Zakim> -wbailer
13:02:39 <Zakim> -florian
13:02:40 <Zakim> -Jan
13:02:42 <pchampin> present: Chris, florian, wonsuk, wbailer, pchampin, Joakim, Jan, Felix
13:02:47 <Zakim> -Chris
13:02:53 <Zakim> -Joakim
13:02:59 <Zakim> -wonsuk
13:03:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
13:04:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
13:04:46 <Zakim> -pchampin
13:04:48 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended
13:04:50 <Zakim> Attendees were Chris, florian, Joakim, wonsuk, wbailer, +47.24.4.aaaa, pchampin, Felix, +1.617.588.aabb
13:05:47 <pchampin> regrets: tobias
13:05:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
13:19:31 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #mediaann
14:59:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediaann