13:24:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:24:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-bpwg-irc
13:24:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:24:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:24:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:24:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:24:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:24:09 <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2009
13:24:12 <francois> Chair: jo
13:24:18 <brucel> brucel has joined #bpwg
13:24:18 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Oct/0014.html
13:25:29 <francois> Regrets: kai, miguel, SeanP, jeffs
13:26:00 <francois> Regrets+ adam
13:26:27 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started
13:26:34 <Zakim> +??P1
13:26:39 <tomhume> tomhume has joined #bpwg
13:26:53 <brucel> Zakim, I'm P1 I guess
13:26:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I'm P1 I guess', brucel
13:27:03 <DKA> DKA has joined #bpwg
13:27:30 <brucel> Zakim p1 is me
13:28:02 <jo> zakim, code?
13:28:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
13:28:35 <Zakim> +jo
13:29:02 <Zakim> +francois
13:29:21 <Zakim> + +0771785aaaa
13:29:29 <DKA> zakim, aaaa is me
13:29:29 <Zakim> +DKA; got it
13:29:58 <miguel> miguel has joined #bpwg
13:30:12 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #bpwg
13:30:42 <Zakim> +??P10
13:30:48 <Zakim> +miguel
13:30:49 <tomhume> zakim, ??P10 is me
13:30:50 <Zakim> +tomhume; got it
13:30:59 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
13:30:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1, jo, francois, DKA, tomhume, miguel
13:31:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see yeliz, miguel, DKA, tomhume, brucel, Zakim, RRSAgent, francois, jo, trackbot
13:31:04 <EdC> EdC has joined #bpwg
13:31:36 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #bpwg
13:31:56 <jo> zakim, ??P1 is brucel
13:31:56 <Zakim> +brucel; got it
13:32:16 <Zakim> +??P11
13:32:22 <yeliz> zakim, ??P11 is yeliz
13:32:22 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
13:32:26 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
13:32:26 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:33:12 <Zakim> +Phil_Archer
13:33:25 <Zakim> +EdC
13:33:27 <tomhume> scribe: tomhume
13:34:15 <tomhume> Topic: 1. Admin
13:34:34 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2009Oct/0008.html Draft agenda for F2F
13:34:44 <tomhume> jo: Sent out an outline agenda, suggest we spend a day on MWABP, another day on CT, and a half day tidying things up
13:34:44 <jsmanrique> jsmanrique has joined #bpwg
13:34:53 <tomhume> ...everyone happy with that?
13:34:55 <francois> q+
13:35:09 <jo> ack t
13:35:17 <DKA> q?
13:35:19 <jo> ack f
13:35:30 <Zakim> +josema
13:35:41 <tomhume> francois: Offers to set up a registration form
13:35:55 <francois> ACTION: daoust to prepare the registration form and to officialize the F2F
13:35:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1020 - Prepare the registration form and to officialize the F2F [on François Daoust - due 2009-10-20].
13:36:14 <tomhume> Topic: 2. Update on MWABP (BP 2)
13:36:30 <tomhume> jo: there was supposed to be an editorial session last Friday, now pushed back to this Friday
13:36:43 <tomhume> ... if you want to join this, say so and we'll arrange a conf bridge
13:36:58 <tomhume> phila: meeting from 12
13:37:19 <tomhume> jo: so we'll probably start around 1
13:37:28 <tomhume> ... I've not seen any comments on the list.
13:37:53 <tomhume> francois: there is one from (???) on MWABP
13:37:53 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-comments/2009OctDec/0029.html Comment from Art
13:38:09 <francois> s/(???)/Arthur Barstow
13:38:42 <tomhume> ... I've already replied to him. His second part is a good point, the appendices are suffixed with the non-normative but there's nothing normative in these docs because they're BPs
13:39:11 <tomhume> jo: The problem is, that's the way the XML spec works. This might be easier to fix as it's HTML. This looks editorial and easy to fix.
13:39:17 <tomhume> Topic: 3. BP 1.5
13:39:39 <francois> ISSUE-300?
13:39:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-300 -- Addendum to BP reads as though it is a normative extension - PH requests we find a new name for it -- OPEN
13:39:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/300
13:39:39 <DKA> Can we call it "BP Evolution"?
13:39:50 <tomhume> jo: We've a couple of comments from Phil and Kai.
13:39:56 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Oct/0009.html Suggestions for titles for BP1.5
13:40:05 <tomhume> phil: I'm happy to go with what Kai said
13:40:05 <PhilA2> No no, BP Intelligent Design please, DKA
13:40:26 <tomhume> jo: I don't feel strongly about this. Anyone have any comments?
13:40:29 <PhilA2> Title:    "Extended Guideline for Mobile Web Best Practices"
13:40:29 <PhilA2> Subtitle: "a non-normative companion document for Mobile Web Best
13:40:33 <francois> q+
13:40:50 <jo> ack fr
13:41:21 <tomhume> francoise:  the MWBP are not normative. I don't think the subtitle is needed. Looking at the document from an external POV the extract is already clear, it's just about the title.
13:41:28 <tomhume> s/francoise/francois/
13:41:44 <tomhume> ... I prefer your suggestion Jo.
13:42:03 <tomhume> jo: let's decide between the two. Straw poll...
13:42:11 <jo> 1. 1 Extended Evaluations for Mobile Web Best Practices
13:42:23 <jo> 2. Extended Guideline for Mobile Web Best Practices
13:42:34 <tomhume> 2
13:42:40 <PhilA2> s/2. Extended Guideline for Mobile Web Best Practices/2. Extended Guidelines for Mobile Web Best Practices
13:42:44 <DKA> 2 - but I'd prefer "extended dance re-mix of mobile web best practices"
13:42:47 <EdC> 2
13:42:52 <yeliz> 2
13:43:03 <francois> 2
13:43:06 <jsmanrique> 2
13:43:52 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BP 1.5 (the Addendum) will henceforth be known as Extended Guidelines for Mobile Web Best Practices
13:43:58 <francois> +1
13:44:02 <tomhume> +1
13:44:03 <jsmanrique> +1
13:44:05 <EdC> +1
13:44:06 <PhilA2> +1
13:44:09 <yeliz> +1
13:44:12 <tomhume> RESOLUTION: BP 1.5 (the Addendum) will henceforth be known as Extended Guidelines for Mobile Web Best Practices
13:44:30 <tomhume> Topic: 4. Update on CT
13:44:40 <tomhume> jo: Not had too much traffic on this, on-list.
13:45:04 <tomhume> francois: we had confirmation from Michael Macqueen that he's satisfied with the change in the title.
13:45:09 <EdC> Has the release of the documents (CTG, MWABP) and the call for comments been advertised? Where?
13:45:19 <tomhume> jo: That's it then. Have we sent out a notification to the groups we want to comment on this?
13:45:41 <EdC> What about outside W3C?
13:45:42 <tomhume> francois: I sent an email to the chairs of the groups for the lists, and to the HTTPS WG
13:46:02 <francois> s/HTTPS/HTTPBis
13:46:32 <tomhume> jo: People who commented in the past will be aware, but it's a good question. Who'd we originally invite to comment outside the W3C?
13:46:41 <EdC> For instance: what about OMA ???
13:46:51 <tomhume> francois: the WMLProgramming list, but that's all.
13:47:40 <tomhume> ... if we (as a group) put the word out... we're asking for people to review the documents, we're not trying to hide them
13:48:09 <tomhume> ... one of the chairs of the OMA is the HCG here in W3C, and one of the participants in the group is the official liaison with the OMA and has asked that this document be presented to the OMA.
13:48:27 <tomhume> edC: are there other relevant institutions or consortiums that the W3C is in consortium with?
13:48:38 <tomhume> francois: I can't think of any others.
13:49:06 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison W3C Liaison list
13:49:10 <EdC> ok.
13:49:14 <tomhume> jo: Eduardo, unless you have anything specific further to add on this, I suggest we move on...
13:49:31 <tomhume> ... The sadly neglected CT landscape document is the next topic up.
13:49:48 <jo> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1015 ACTION-1015
13:49:49 <tomhume> ... We have two choices: drop it or publish it. Right now it's half-published.
13:50:11 <francois> [for the record, I contacted chairs of TAG, HTML WG, XHTML2 WG, WebApps WG, HCG (for OMA), Web Security Context working group plus HTTPBis]
13:50:18 <tomhume> ... I suggest we request publication as is.
13:50:21 <EdC> As is with a remark or some statement about the status of the document?
13:50:30 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Ref the CT Landscape document, modulo minor editorial changes request publication as a Note.
13:50:38 <tomhume> ... I don't think anyone's ever going to read it... francois?
13:51:01 <tomhume> francois: I think that's a good idea.
13:51:01 <DKA> q+
13:51:14 <jo> ack d
13:51:31 <tomhume> dka: wasn't this document intended as a thought activity for the guidelines? Do we really need to publish it?
13:51:39 <tomhume> jo: it's published as a working draft right now.
13:51:51 <jo> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-ct-landscape-20071025/
13:52:04 <tomhume> dka: I don't think its worth making another announcement etc
13:52:20 <tomhume> jo: unless we can delete this from TR-space, we have an incomplete document. We should complete or delete.
13:52:31 <PhilA2> q+
13:52:36 <EdC> Out of tracability concerns, I would be wary of deleting the document.
13:52:39 <tomhume> ... it's not without precedent to have a document like this hanging around
13:52:40 <DKA> q?
13:52:52 <PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/
13:52:57 <jo> ack p
13:53:14 <tomhume> PhilA: In POWDER we started to document and didn't finish them, they remained working drafts and will never be anything else. On the old WG homepage, you can see beneath publications and tools a section of obsolete documents..
13:53:24 <tomhume> ... they don't even have note status, we just say publicly "we stopped"
13:53:44 <tomhume> ... Whilst it's preferable I don't think you have to turn everything into a working note.
13:53:57 <tomhume> jo: I would be averse to deleting it
13:54:52 <tomhume> ... I propose to make some light editorial changes to the introduction and point out it's been largely superceded. Let's take a resolution on this next week.
13:54:57 <tomhume> ... objections?
13:55:09 <EdC> OK with me.
13:55:10 <jo> ACTION: Jo to make changes to CT Landscape and then propose to group
13:55:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1021 - Make changes to CT Landscape and then propose to group [on Jo Rabin - due 2009-10-20].
13:55:28 <tomhume> ... we also have the test suite to discuss, for transformation.
13:56:02 <tomhume> francois: we're waiting for initial input on the test suite, if we don't have any input then we have to get started ASAP.
13:56:21 <tomhume> jo: bruce, did I note you'd said you didn't have anything for Opera to offer?
13:56:24 <tomhume> bruce: yes
13:57:03 <jo> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open
13:57:24 <Zakim> -tomhume
13:57:44 <francois> Scribe: francois
13:57:47 <Zakim> +??P10
13:58:02 <DKA> Scribe: Dan
13:58:08 <DKA> Scribe: Tom
13:58:13 <jo> zakim, ??P10 is tomhume
13:58:13 <Zakim> +tomhume; got it
13:58:29 <francois> scribenick: tomhume
13:58:59 <francois> ACTION-796?
13:58:59 <trackbot> ACTION-796 -- Daniel Appelquist to contact BBC to see if they can make their mobile web site mobileOK -- due 2008-06-25 -- OPEN
13:58:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/796
13:59:04 <francois> close ACTION-796
13:59:04 <trackbot> ACTION-796 Contact BBC to see if they can make their mobile web site mobileOK closed
13:59:14 <francois> ACTION-870?
13:59:14 <trackbot> ACTION-870 -- Daniel Appelquist to liaise with Seungyun and Jonathan re setting up a call in 4 weeks with a view to having 2 weekly calls in the morning European time -- due 2008-10-28 -- OPEN
13:59:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/870
13:59:24 <Zakim> -tomhume
13:59:28 <francois> close ACTION-870
13:59:28 <trackbot> ACTION-870 Liaise with Seungyun and Jonathan re setting up a call in 4 weeks with a view to having 2 weekly calls in the morning European time closed
13:59:35 <tomhume_> tomhume_ has joined #bpwg
13:59:36 <DKA> Scribe: Dan
13:59:41 <DKA> ScribeNick: DKA
13:59:41 <francois> i/ACTION-796/Topic: Issues and actions
13:59:51 <francois> ACTION-935?
13:59:51 <trackbot> ACTION-935 -- Daniel Appelquist to lead discussion on list on Korean mobileOK proposals -- due 2009-04-03 -- OPEN
13:59:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/935
13:59:52 <Zakim> +??P29
13:59:55 <francois> close ACTION-935
13:59:55 <trackbot> ACTION-935 Lead discussion on list on Korean mobileOK proposals closed
13:59:59 <EdC> What about 885?
13:59:59 <tomhume_> zakim, ??P29 is me
13:59:59 <Zakim> +tomhume_; got it
14:00:02 <francois> ACTION-956?
14:00:02 <trackbot> ACTION-956 -- François Daoust to review last call comments on CT to see where the responses need editing -- due 2009-04-14 -- OPEN
14:00:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/956
14:00:16 <francois> close ACTION-956
14:00:16 <trackbot> ACTION-956 Review last call comments on CT to see where the responses need editing closed
14:00:23 <francois> ACTION-964?
14:00:24 <trackbot> ACTION-964 -- Tom Hume to review AtomDB for potential inclusion/reference in MWABP -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN
14:00:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/964
14:01:45 <francois> q+
14:01:59 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-bpwg-minutes.html#item01 background on AtomDB
14:02:04 <DKA> ack franc
14:02:53 <tomhume_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-comments/2009AprJun/0003.html
14:04:01 <francois> ACTION-987?
14:04:01 <trackbot> ACTION-987 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft a blog post on mobileOK Scheme -- due 2009-07-07 -- OPEN
14:04:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/987
14:04:49 <francois> ACTION-998?
14:04:49 <trackbot> ACTION-998 -- Adam Connors to extract some useful info from the discussion around ACTION-790 and add it to the doc -- due 2009-07-21 -- OPEN
14:04:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/998
14:04:54 <francois> close ACTION-998
14:04:54 <trackbot> ACTION-998 Extract some useful info from the discussion around ACTION-790 and add it to the doc closed
14:05:01 <francois> ACTION-1003?
14:05:01 <trackbot> ACTION-1003 -- Bruce Lawson to follow up within Opera as to what exactly the XSS test scripts supplied by chaals guard against -- due 2009-09-08 -- OPEN
14:05:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1003
14:05:23 <francois> ACTION-1005?
14:05:23 <trackbot> ACTION-1005 -- François Daoust to set up a survey to find dates for F2F, either week of Nov 16, Nov 30 or Dec 7, and ask for hosting offers in Europe -- due 2009-09-22 -- OPEN
14:05:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1005
14:05:26 <francois> close ACTION-1005
14:05:26 <trackbot> ACTION-1005 Set up a survey to find dates for F2F, either week of Nov 16, Nov 30 or Dec 7, and ask for hosting offers in Europe closed
14:05:32 <francois> ACTION-1007?
14:05:32 <trackbot> ACTION-1007 -- Sean Patterson to check if novarra has tests they could contribute for CT guidelines -- due 2009-09-22 -- OPEN
14:05:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1007
14:05:34 <francois> ACTION-1008?
14:05:34 <trackbot> ACTION-1008 -- Adam Connors to check if Google has tests they could contribute for CT guidelines -- due 2009-09-22 -- OPEN
14:05:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1008
14:05:39 <francois> ACTION-1009?
14:05:42 <trackbot> ACTION-1009 -- Bruce Lawson to check if Opera has tests they could contribute for CT guidelines -- due 2009-09-22 -- OPEN
14:05:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1009
14:06:05 <francois> [Nothing to contribute from Opera's side]
14:06:09 <francois> Close ACTION-1009
14:06:10 <trackbot> ACTION-1009 Check if Opera has tests they could contribute for CT guidelines closed
14:06:19 <francois> ACTION-1010?
14:06:19 <trackbot> ACTION-1010 -- Adam Connors to organise editor's meeting -- due 2009-09-29 -- OPEN
14:06:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1010
14:06:22 <francois> close ACTION-1010
14:06:22 <trackbot> ACTION-1010 Organise editor's meeting closed
14:06:24 <francois> close ACTION-1011
14:06:24 <trackbot> ACTION-1011 Amend 4.1.5.3 etc cf EdC's Comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Sep/0062.html closed
14:06:25 <francois> close ACTION-1012
14:06:27 <trackbot> ACTION-1012 Move text per eduardo's comment ACTION-989 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0143.html closed
14:06:27 <francois> close ACTION-1013
14:06:32 <trackbot> ACTION-1013 Add a note that the X-Headers have been provisionally registered closed
14:06:35 <francois> close ACTION-1014
14:06:36 <trackbot> ACTION-1014 Insert above definition of same origin in the document closed
14:06:46 <francois> close ACTION-1015
14:06:46 <trackbot> ACTION-1015 Recommend to group what to do with landscape doc closed
14:06:59 <francois> close ACTION-1016
14:06:59 <trackbot> ACTION-1016 Get back to group on hosting F2F by tomorrow closed
14:07:07 <francois> ACTION-1017?
14:07:07 <trackbot> ACTION-1017 -- François Daoust to get MWABP published as Last Call and ensure Chairs announcement is properly sent -- due 2009-10-06 -- OPEN
14:07:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1017
14:07:13 <francois> close ACTION-1017
14:07:13 <trackbot> ACTION-1017 Get MWABP published as Last Call and ensure Chairs announcement is properly sent closed
14:07:22 <francois> close ACTION-1018
14:07:22 <trackbot> ACTION-1018 Call editorial meeting on Friday 9th Oct to discuss MWABP closed
14:07:29 <francois> close ACTION-1019
14:07:29 <trackbot> ACTION-1019 Get CT published as Last Call and ensure chairs announcement closed
14:07:38 <EdC> 1020 and 1021 are new ones.
14:08:23 <francois> close ACTION-1004
14:08:23 <trackbot> ACTION-1004 Cancel TPAC F2F for BPWG closed
14:08:29 <francois> ACTION-1001?
14:08:29 <trackbot> ACTION-1001 -- François Daoust to review tests provided by Charles on same origin policy -- due 2009-08-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:08:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1001
14:09:25 <francois> close ACTION-1001
14:09:25 <trackbot> ACTION-1001 Review tests provided by Charles on same origin policy closed
14:10:16 <brucel> bye all
14:10:21 <jsmanrique> bye
14:10:24 <DKA> Jo: Thanks all!
14:10:26 <DKA> :)
14:10:27 <Zakim> -tomhume_
14:10:28 <Zakim> -francois
14:10:29 <Zakim> -Phil_Archer
14:10:31 <Zakim> -jo
14:10:32 <Zakim> -EdC
14:10:32 <Zakim> -brucel
14:10:33 <Zakim> -DKA
14:10:35 <Zakim> -miguel
14:10:35 <Zakim> -josema
14:10:35 <yeliz> yeliz has left #bpwg
14:10:45 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has left #bpwg
14:12:34 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:12:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-bpwg-minutes.html francois
14:13:50 <brucel> brucel has left #bpwg
14:13:56 <tomhume> tomhume has joined #bpwg
14:14:33 <jo> jo has left #bpwg
14:17:23 <francois> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:17:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see yeliz
14:17:37 <francois> zakim, drop yeliz
14:17:37 <Zakim> yeliz is being disconnected
14:17:39 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
14:17:41 <Zakim> Attendees were jo, francois, +0771785aaaa, DKA, miguel, tomhume, brucel, yeliz, Phil_Archer, EdC, josema, tomhume_
14:17:45 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:17:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-bpwg-minutes.html francois
16:31:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #bpwg