14:59:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
14:59:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/09-pf-irc
14:59:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
14:59:44 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
14:59:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
14:59:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
14:59:47 <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2009
14:59:51 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log public
15:00:01 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM has now started
15:00:02 <Zakim> +Cooper
15:00:56 <janina> janina has joined #pf
15:01:11 <janina> zakim, call janina
15:01:11 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
15:01:12 <Zakim> -Cooper
15:01:12 <Zakim> +Cooper
15:01:13 <Zakim> +Janina
15:01:40 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cooper, Janina
15:02:04 <Zakim> +??P0
15:03:21 <janina> Meeting: PF/HTML_Caucus telecon
15:03:21 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:03:21 <janina> agenda: this
15:03:21 <janina> agenda+ identify scribe
15:03:21 <janina> agenda+ Recent Developments: HTML WG Process; Joint TF Organization
15:03:21 <janina> agenda+ WCAG HTML5 Comments: Next Steps
15:03:24 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings
15:03:26 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:03:28 <janina>  
15:03:49 <Laura> Laura has joined #pf
15:03:58 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #pf
15:04:00 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
15:04:01 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cooper, Janina, Steve_Faulkner, Cynthia_Shelly
15:09:49 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/25-pf-minutes.html
15:10:11 <cyns> cyns has joined #pf
15:10:37 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/25-pf-minutes.html
15:16:39 <Zakim> +Rich
15:17:04 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #pf
15:17:25 <Stevef> Google Wave Preview Accessibility Review http://webaim.org/blog/google-wave-preview-accessibility-review/
15:22:24 <richardschwerdtfe> agenda?
15:22:34 <MichaelC> Grand list: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/html5-spec-review
15:23:17 <janina> scribe: janina
15:23:32 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich
15:23:46 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: WCAG HTML 5 comments
15:24:10 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: Michael has the list and will respond to Loretta
15:24:25 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: Should we enter defects in Bugzilla?
15:24:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: We should file them as formal PF comments
15:25:00 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I don't know whether we need to file these in my name, Janina, or PF
15:25:14 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: We should have an accessibility keyword
15:25:26 <richardschwerdtfe> Stevef: how are we going to sign off?
15:25:54 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: We need to file these as PF comments which will buy us time on the documents
15:26:06 <richardschwerdtfe> Stevef: I want to discuss what came out of yesterday's meeting
15:26:20 <richardschwerdtfe> Stevef: Rich and I attended the call
15:26:24 <MichaelC> HTML Bugzilla: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG
15:26:47 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: what should we use as the keyword - a11y or pfwg?
15:27:13 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: Both. a11y for things that are general accessibility issues
15:27:26 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: pfwg for general working group issues
15:28:04 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia and Rich: we don't need to vet keywords through the working group
15:28:54 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I will just create two keywords. a11y - accessibility issues. PFWG - Formal comments from the Protocols and Formats working group
15:29:56 <richardschwerdtfe> Stevef: where is the key word?
15:30:06 <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi
15:30:25 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: you go into there and go into htmlwg
15:30:37 <richardschwerdtfe> Stevef: I am in htmlwg
15:30:51 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: it is like the third from the last text for the keyword button
15:31:03 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: perhaps you have different permsissions
15:31:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: who has the power to describe what keywords
15:31:46 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: we need to establish whether using keywords is the proper procedure
15:32:11 <richardschwerdtfe> Agenda?
15:32:41 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Recent Developments - HTML WG Process; Joint TF
15:33:10 <Zakim> +Cooper
15:33:19 <Zakim> -Cooper
15:33:31 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: who is coordinating?
15:34:54 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: we could have either Cynthia or I represent the HTML side
15:35:48 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I would prefer that some non-accessibility person for HTML 
15:36:39 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I have 3 concerns with the process
15:37:38 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I am concerned that there is too much power in the editors hand in the process for sign off
15:38:16 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I am concerned about the procedure. If the commenter is not satisfied then you can escalate to the group. 
15:38:33 <Laura> HTML Working Group Decision Policy
15:38:39 <Laura> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
15:39:45 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: everyone here has  a day job so we cannot write accessibility proposals on the existing 100 or so bugs this month
15:40:06 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I think having the loop hole is problematic
15:40:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: there is not consensus on the proposals
15:40:50 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: you could have a situation as to where the editor and commenter are satisfied but nothing else is
15:41:06 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: It could be very lite weight
15:41:15 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I prefer that it be more active on the survey
15:41:59 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: you did not raise the issues on the process on the call. Can we still raise the issue?
15:42:12 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: Yes, through the back channel.
15:42:50 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
15:43:20 <Tim> Tim has joined #pf
15:45:10 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich and Cynthia: need to split up duties with chair and/or editor
15:45:41 <richardschwerdtfe> SteveF: there are 70 or so points of change now. and 40 or so need bugs submitted
15:45:59 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: this can't be submitted as one bug
15:46:39 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: no. Maciej thought this was best submitted in indivdual bugs where possible
15:47:28 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: should we referred by extension or inclusion?
15:47:48 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: We don't need an extension but we should refer to the aria spec.
15:48:04 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: how do we do a second version of ARIA.
15:48:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: I think we should do a second version of ARIA. 
15:50:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: we will need a separate spec. for ARIA  that is referenced and we need to address the individual elements where equivalent aria semantics are available
15:50:49 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: politics should be addressed when the TF is up and running
15:53:05 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: Rich could you come if someone covered your hotel
15:53:16 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: will see. I have a november 4 commitment
15:54:46 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I belive the HTML chairs are relying on people to volunteer
15:54:53 <richardschwerdtfe> s/belive/believe/
15:55:20 <richardschwerdtfe> Cynthia: Laura volunteered but said she did not have a lot of time to participate
15:55:34 <richardschwerdtfe> SteveF: Bruce Lawson might be interested
15:55:46 <richardschwerdtfe> SteveF: I will contact Bruce
15:55:54 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: Please do
15:56:36 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: Mike Smith and I need to connect
15:56:49 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: main thing is get this to happen
15:58:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: I don't think we can have a meeting until we decide on the chairs
15:58:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: can try to decide for next Friday
15:58:45 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: don't think that is possible
15:59:56 <richardschwerdtfe> SteveF: I know Bruce. we should get a reasonable response.
16:00:50 <Stevef> sam ruby's SVG open keynote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd7ILwrFwQY
16:00:53 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
16:00:54 <Zakim> -Rich
16:01:03 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:01:11 <Zakim> -Janina
16:01:39 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
16:01:41 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:01:41 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM has ended
16:01:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Cooper, Janina, Steve_Faulkner, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich, Tim_Boland
16:02:17 <janina> zakim, bye
16:02:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pf
16:02:27 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
16:02:34 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/09-pf-minutes.html janina
16:03:32 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has left #pf