14:48:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:48:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-irc
14:48:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:48:51 <msporny> zakim, this will be rdfa
14:48:51 <Zakim> ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:49:01 <msporny> Scribe: msporny
14:49:10 <msporny> Scribe: Manu_Sporny
14:49:13 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
14:49:24 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
14:49:32 <msporny> Chair: Manu_Sporny
14:49:38 <msporny> Present: Manu_Sporny
14:49:56 <msporny> Regrets: Ben_Adida, Ivan_Herman, Mark_Birbeck
14:50:07 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public
14:50:13 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:50:55 <msporny> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0004.html
14:51:09 <msporny> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-rdfa-minutes.html
14:52:02 <msporny> Topic: Action Items
14:52:04 <msporny> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
14:52:07 <msporny> -- continues
14:52:12 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:56:48 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
14:57:24 <ShaneM> I doubt we are going to have ernough folks today.
14:57:39 <msporny> We need 3, right?
14:57:48 <msporny> Is Steven going to be able to make it?
14:58:03 <ShaneM> dunno.  I just meant to do anything useful.  withouth ivan ben and mark....
14:58:43 <msporny> Ah, that's why I put things that aren't controversial on the agenda.
14:59:01 <msporny> We just have this backlog of stuff that needs to get done, it's mostly housekeeping stuff.
14:59:25 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:59:52 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
14:59:59 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:01:22 <Zakim> + +1.617.588.aaaa - is perhaps Jan
15:01:36 <msporny> zakim, I am ??1.617.588.aaaa
15:01:38 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??1.617.588.aaaa'
15:01:41 <msporny> zakim, I am ??aaaa
15:01:41 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??aaaa'
15:01:46 <msporny> zakim, I am aaaa
15:01:46 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named 'aaaa'
15:01:50 <Steven> Steven has joined #rdfa
15:02:02 <msporny> zakim, I am ??
15:02:02 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??'
15:02:04 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Jan
15:02:08 <msporny> zakim, I am +1.617.588.aaaa
15:02:08 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '+1.617.588.aaaa'
15:02:13 <msporny> zakim, I am 1.617.588.aaaa
15:02:13 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '1.617.588.aaaa'
15:02:19 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:02:19 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:02:21 <Zakim> +Steven
15:02:29 <msporny> zakim, ??+1.617.588.aaaa
15:02:29 <Zakim> I don't understand '??+1.617.588.aaaa', msporny
15:02:37 <msporny> zakim, i am ??+1.617.588.aaaa
15:02:37 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??+1.617.588.aaaa'
15:02:50 <msporny> zakim, I am Jan
15:02:50 <Zakim> ok, msporny, I now associate you with Jan
15:04:27 <ShaneM> Scribe: ShaneM
15:04:49 <ShaneM> Topic: XML Namespace Preservation in XML Literals
15:05:23 <ShaneM> The core of this issue is that the test cases shove every namespace that is active into the top elements in the literal.
15:07:09 <ShaneM> Ivan seemed to say we should canonicalize...
15:07:49 <ShaneM> Ben seemed to disagree.
15:09:18 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
15:09:29 <msporny> ShaneM: This has to do with whether an XMLLiteral is supposed to be canonicalized.
15:09:46 <msporny> ShaneM: You don't have to canonicalize XMLLiterals in RDF.
15:10:27 <ShaneM> Manu thinks the underlying issue is that processors might generate different xmlliterals
15:10:43 <ShaneM> It is possible to tighten up our spec to prevent this.
15:11:57 <ShaneM> Manu believes this will effect real world use
15:12:24 <Steven> a/effect/affect/
15:12:34 <Steven> s/effect/affect/
15:13:11 <Steven> s|a01/effect/affect/||
15:13:23 <ShaneM> So multiple processors might raise xmlliterals that are not byte by byte identical and might not compare correctly via sparql
15:13:31 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:13:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html Steven
15:15:21 <ShaneM> If we bring HTML into the mix... what happens when there is no defauilt xml namespace
15:15:41 <ShaneM> Manu: we could require it be emitted when generating xml literals from HTML input.
15:16:40 <ShaneM> Should we make it a requirement that a processor assume the default namespace is the xhtml namspace when processing RDFa from an HTML source?  Probably.  It would not have any negative effects.
15:18:09 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
15:19:03 <ShaneM> Why does it matter if there are extra xml namespace declarations embedded in an XML Literal ?
15:20:00 <ShaneM> It matters because the rest of the stack assumes the input is canonical XML...  even though that is not really a requirement.
15:20:01 <msporny> scribenick: shanem
15:20:12 <msporny> scribenick: ShaneM
15:21:47 <ShaneM> XMLLiteral is a corner case.... so the rules here won't mess up that much in the wild.
15:24:39 <ShaneM> Manu suggests that we require that conforming processors always canonicalize an XMLLiteral.
15:26:42 <ShaneM> Shane thinks this would be a conformance change.
15:26:59 <ShaneM> Can we issue an errata that says we are going this way in the future and implementors should do it now.
15:27:04 <ShaneM> Yes, we can.
15:28:20 <ShaneM> What should we do with the test suite?  Change the tests so they require canonical input?  Yes.
15:28:50 <ShaneM> Add a comment to the tests so they indicate that a failure is okay now, but won't be soon.
15:29:06 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata text about canonical XMLLiterals
15:30:11 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Unreviewed XHTML test cases
15:30:12 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/
15:30:41 <msporny> TCs: 131, 134, 140, 142, 147, 154
15:30:59 <ShaneM> Test Case 131:
15:31:39 <ShaneM> tests to ensure that characters defined as whitespace by XML are treated as whitespace by a processor
15:35:04 <msporny> +1 for passing 131
15:35:09 <ShaneM> +1
15:35:19 <Steven> +1
15:35:20 <ShaneM> Test 131 approved.
15:35:38 <ShaneM> Test case 134:
15:36:28 <ShaneM> In XHTML mode, this should generate no triple.
15:38:18 <ShaneM> xmlns spec says http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#ns-decl
15:39:12 <ShaneM> 'xmlns' must be in lower case
15:42:26 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#s_metaAttributes
15:42:39 <ShaneM> XHTML Metainformation Attributes Module redefines rel and rev
15:47:44 <ShaneM> Should we treat reserved words as case-insensitive?
15:48:07 <ShaneM> Steven: HTML4 says the author is allowed to treat rel and rev values as case insensitive... so yes.  we should.
15:50:14 <ShaneM> Steven: Need to issue an errata about section 9.3 that says they are treated case insensitively on input and must be transformed to lower case on ouput in triples
15:50:45 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata about case insensitive reserved words.
15:50:54 <ShaneM> Test case 134 is NOT YET APPROVED
15:50:58 <Zakim> -Jan
15:51:00 <Zakim> -Steven
15:51:01 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:51:02 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
15:51:03 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, +1.617.588.aaaa, Steven
15:51:49 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:51:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
15:52:19 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
15:52:31 <msporny> Present+ Shane_McCarron
15:52:35 <msporny> Present+ Steven_Pemberton
15:52:38 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:52:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
17:03:34 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
17:05:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
17:06:52 <msporny> s/The core of this issue/Manu: The core of this issue/
17:08:02 <msporny> s/Test Case 131/Manu: Test Case 131/
17:08:04 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
17:08:24 <msporny> s/The core of this issue/Manu: The core of this issue/g
17:08:26 <msporny> s/Test Case 131/Manu: Test Case 131/g
17:08:29 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
17:10:28 <msporny> rrsagent, bye
17:10:28 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-actions.rdf :
17:10:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [1]
17:10:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-irc#T14-52-04
17:10:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata text about canonical XMLLiterals [2]
17:10:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-irc#T15-29-06
17:10:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata about case insensitive reserved words. [3]
17:10:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-irc#T15-50-45