00:23:59 <Dashiva> Dashiva has joined #html-wg
01:14:25 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
01:16:45 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-wg
01:19:50 <Julian> Julian has joined #html-wg
02:34:56 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7831] New: Does the spec handle setting a drag object type, and having drop targets only respond/highlight to certain drag object types? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0067.html> 4** [Bug 7830] New: Does the spec handle selecting multiple objects to drag (holding shift, or command keys) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0066.html>
02:38:36 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
02:38:46 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
03:36:15 <gavin> gavin has joined #html-wg
04:29:36 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
07:05:59 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7832] New: The 'for' attribute could point to a element (eg. form) to indicate progress without need for scripting. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0068.html>
07:10:19 <Marcos> Marcos has joined #html-wg
07:16:41 <anne> anne has joined #html-wg
07:36:26 <gavin> gavin has joined #html-wg
07:40:38 <heycam> heycam has joined #html-wg
08:05:56 <tlr> tlr has joined #html-wg
08:06:14 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7833] New: The 'demand' event should fire on the canvas whenever it's apperance may affect display. It may occur before document's 'load' event or much later. It is like image fetching from network, it should be up to the browser, when it actually fire. May be helpf <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0069.html>
08:23:12 <gavin> gavin has joined #html-wg
08:25:59 <mjs> hsivonen: you've got some tough questions
08:36:20 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7834] "If a new element is inserted between the two nodes that define pointer" - s/element/node/ <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0071.html> 4** [Bug 7834] New: "If a new element is inserted between the two nodes that define pointer" - s/element/node/ <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0070.html>
08:36:20 <anne> anne has joined #html-wg
09:01:16 <Hixie> can someone please explain to me the subtle difference between being a member of the htmlwg and not being a member of the htmlwg?
09:01:29 <Hixie> since it doesn't seem to have anything to do with participating in the htmlwg
09:01:45 <hsivonen> Hixie: PP commitment?
09:02:10 <hsivonen> Hixie: also, I guess participants to the group are subscribed to public-html
09:02:52 <Hixie> not being subscribed to public-html doesn't seem to matter when people continually check the archives
09:03:20 <Philip> Members get to vote
09:04:03 <Hixie> hm, ok
09:04:07 <Hixie> interesting point
09:04:26 <hsivonen> oh yeah, that, too
09:05:18 <jgraham> Members have to set up a filter so that they don't get any email whereas non members get that for free
09:06:16 <hsivonen> mjs: thanks for answering my questions
09:06:42 <mjs> hsivonen: I'm not entirely sure what to do to the policy document, for both of them
09:07:03 <mjs> former participants are (I think) still bound by the PP commitment
09:07:27 <mjs> non-members don't get to vote in votes or polls or object to consensus resolutions
09:07:35 <Philip> What happens if they violate the PP commitment?
09:07:58 <ROBOd> ROBOd has joined #html-wg
09:11:45 <mjs> I would assume the Patent Policy says
09:12:51 <gsnedders> I don't think the PP actually gives any specific penalties
09:16:31 <mjs> I think the way it's written, there's no way to violate it, because you have to either disclose, withdraw, or implicitly license any essential claims royalty-free
09:17:55 <mjs> if you tried to then sue someone implementing the spec for patent infringement on an essential claim, the defendant would likely have a strong defense and the plaintiff would likely be smacked with penalties by the court
09:18:16 <mjs> (IANAL but I believe this has happened in prior cases of trying to renege on IPR policy in a standards group)
09:18:31 <mjs> jgraham: it only applies to people who have agreed to it
09:18:41 <gsnedders> (IANAL but I remember that too)
09:18:43 <mjs> i.e. participants and former participants have obligations
09:19:06 <mjs> random non-members would have to agree explicitly
09:57:52 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
10:02:37 <tlr> tlr has joined #html-wg
10:06:41 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7835] New: It's not defined what the ownerDocument should be for the created HTMLAudioElement. Similarly for new Image() and new Option() <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0072.html>
10:36:50 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7837] New: "space separated list" in ping="" isn't properly xreffed <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0074.html> 4** [Bug 7836] New: Should the name="" of a <map> be unique in the document? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0073.html>
10:38:43 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #html-wg
11:05:10 <ArtB> ArtB has joined #html-wg
11:06:56 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7838] New: The words "boolean attribute" aren't xreffed here. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0075.html>
11:35:02 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
11:35:03 <jmb> jmb has joined #html-wg
11:41:29 <mjs_> mjs_ has joined #html-wg
11:43:25 <mjs_> mjs_ has joined #html-wg
11:57:08 <pimpbot> planet: What’s New in HTML 5: From the Large to the Nitty Gritty <11http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/nYWgNR9qVa8/whats-new-in-html-5-from-the-large-to-the-nitty-gritty>
12:07:09 <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Index of attributes. (whatwg r4094) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Oct/0025.html>
12:07:10 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7840] New: Index of attributes lacks global attributes <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0077.html> 4** [Bug 7839] New: Missing (unbalanced) quotemark before "checkbox" keyword. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0076.html>
12:10:29 <plh> plh has joined #html-wg
12:31:10 <J_Voracek> J_Voracek has joined #html-wg
12:32:01 <aroben> aroben has joined #html-wg
12:59:32 <J_Voracek> J_Voracek has joined #html-wg
13:00:10 <J_Voracek> J_Voracek has joined #html-wg
13:01:51 <J_Voracek> J_Voracek has joined #html-wg
13:04:31 <J_Voracek> I sincerely apologize. A change has been made in my usual schedule. I will be unable to attend today's teleconference.
13:07:26 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7841] New: s/that the user agent/the user agent/ <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0078.html>
13:23:22 <gavin> gavin has joined #html-wg
13:37:33 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7842] New: No programmatic way to make an HTML document - consider adding createHTMLDocument <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0079.html>
14:07:40 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7843] Please make 'abort', ' loadend' and 'emptied' use "queue a task". Firing them sync is annoying to implement and doesn't seem to solve any problem. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0082.html> 4** [Bug 7843] New: Please make 'abort', ' loadend' and 'emptied' use "queue a task". Firing them sync is annoying to implement and doesn't seem to solve any problem. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/publi
14:16:58 <anne> plh, what do we need an HTML PAG for?
14:17:05 <anne> plh, something not public yet coming up?
14:18:39 <plh> well, it's not clear whether we need one or not yet
14:18:45 <plh> but there is this http://flex.sys-con.com/node/1134536
14:18:47 <pimpbot> Title: Eolas Sues the Internet | Adobe Flex Journal (at flex.sys-con.com)
14:19:53 <plh> if folks believe we need one, I'm sure we'll hear about it
14:20:25 <hsivonen> plh: is the new Web Apps PAG for the same thing or something yet different?
14:20:32 <plh> same thing
14:20:35 <hsivonen> ok
14:22:47 <plh> I think it will take a few weeks before folks poke us to move, if they want to.
14:43:42 <Marcos> Marcos has joined #html-wg
15:01:20 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-wg
15:07:55 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7846] New: javascript <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0085.html> 4** [Bug 7845] New: javascript <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0084.html> 4** [Bug 7844] New: Remove "that is in a Document and" when the src attribute is set and when a source is inserted, because there's no reason resource selection shouldn't be run when it's not in the document. Then we also don't 
15:23:15 <myakura> myakura has joined #html-wg
15:30:44 <cardona507> cardona507 has joined #html-wg
15:38:00 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7842] No programmatic way to make an HTML document - consider adding createHTMLDocument <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0086.html>
15:53:03 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-wg
15:56:19 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-wg
15:57:34 <msporny_> msporny_ has joined #html-wg
15:57:47 <msporny_> zakim, who is on the call?
15:58:03 <annevk> annevk has joined #html-wg
15:58:05 <rubys1> rubys1 has joined #html-wg
15:58:44 <Julian> Manu, the call hasn't started yet
15:59:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-wg
15:59:08 <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
15:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
15:59:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
15:59:13 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:59:13 <trackbot> Date: 08 October 2009
15:59:15 <annevk> Zakim, passcode?
15:59:15 <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), annevk
15:59:32 <Zakim> -Julian
15:59:37 <Zakim> +carlos
15:59:42 <Zakim> + +1.408.398.aaaa
15:59:44 <cardona507> good morning
15:59:47 <Zakim> +??P18
15:59:50 <annevk> Zakim, ??P18 is me
15:59:50 <Zakim> +annevk; got it
15:59:52 <Zakim> +??P15
15:59:54 <msporny_> zakim, I am ??P15
15:59:54 <Zakim> +msporny_; got it
15:59:59 <Zakim> +Sam
16:00:06 <Zakim> +Plh
16:00:15 <Zakim> +Rich
16:00:38 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-wg
16:00:47 <plh> scribeNick: plh
16:00:54 <plh> Chair: Sam
16:01:07 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #html-wg
16:01:27 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
16:01:27 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:01:29 <Zakim> +Mike
16:01:29 <Zakim> +laura
16:01:35 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:01:37 <Zakim> +??P25
16:01:43 <Zakim> +Matt
16:01:55 <Zakim> + +44.492.512.80.aabb
16:01:58 <Stevef> zakim, ??P25 is me
16:02:03 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
16:02:05 <dsinger> Zakim, mute dsinger
16:02:07 <Zakim> sorry, dsinger, I do not know which phone connection belongs to dsinger
16:02:14 <Zakim> - +44.492.512.80.aabb
16:02:31 <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Eliot_Graff, carlos, +1.408.398.aaaa, annevk, msporny_, Sam, Plh, Rich, laura, Mike, Stevef, Matt
16:02:49 <Zakim> +Julian
16:02:59 <cardona507> Zakim, mute carlos
16:02:59 <Zakim> carlos should now be muted
16:03:02 <dsinger> Zakim, aaaa is dsinger
16:03:02 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
16:03:18 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:03:20 <dsinger> Zakim, mute dsinger
16:03:24 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
16:03:39 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #html-wg
16:03:46 <plh> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009OctDec/0001.html
16:03:47 <Zakim> -dsinger
16:03:47 <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-10-08: AIs, Task Forces, TPAC/ECMA, Decision Policy from Sam Ruby on 2009-10-07 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:03:55 <plh> Topic: review of action items
16:03:56 <MikeSmith> issue-56?
16:03:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-56 -- Bring "URLs" section/definition and IRI specification in alignment. -- OPEN
16:03:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56
16:03:57 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-56 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:04:05 <MikeSmith> action-137?
16:04:05 <trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-28 -- OPEN
16:04:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
16:04:05 <masinter> masinter has joined #html-wg
16:04:07 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:04:15 <Zakim> +dsinger
16:04:25 <MikeSmith> issue-76?
16:04:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-76 -- Concerns about Microdata section and inclusion/exclusion of RDFa -- OPEN
16:04:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/76
16:04:26 <msporny_> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/Overview.html
16:04:26 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-76 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:04:27 <pimpbot> Title: HTML+RDFa (at dev.w3.org)
16:04:32 <plh> Manu: got through the html+rdfa and pubrules.
16:04:34 <Zakim> -dsinger
16:04:38 <paulc> q+
16:04:48 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
16:04:49 <plh> ... everything looks like it's ready to go
16:04:59 <plh> ... now we need the transition request. Mike?
16:05:01 <adrianba> zakim, microsoft.a is adrianba
16:05:01 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
16:05:13 <MikeSmith> action-147?
16:05:13 <trackbot> ACTION-147 -- Paul Cotton to work with Manu on making HTML+RDFa ready to publish -- due 2009-10-08 -- OPEN
16:05:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/147
16:05:14 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-147 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:05:38 <rubys> ack next
16:05:42 <Zakim> +dsinger
16:05:44 <plh> Paul: sent some suggestions. status need some tweaking.
16:06:01 <Laura> Laura has joined #html-wg
16:06:04 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:06:09 <plh> ... some missing references
16:06:24 <Zakim> +Masinter
16:06:26 <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0240.html
16:06:27 <pimpbot> Title: RE: HTML+RDFa FPWD ready for publishing from Paul Cotton on 2009-10-08 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:06:28 <dsinger> Zakim, mute dsinger
16:06:28 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
16:06:48 <plh> ... Mike needs a short name for the draft. html+rdfa
16:06:54 <plh> Manu: rdfa-in-html ?
16:07:14 <plh> ... I'll look at Paul's email
16:08:30 <plh> close action-147
16:08:30 <trackbot> ACTION-147 Work with Manu on making HTML+RDFa ready to publish closed
16:08:42 <plh> action-139?
16:08:42 <trackbot> ACTION-139 -- Manu Sporny to propose 3 separate HTML5 drafts and the external Microdata draft -- due 2009-10-01 -- OPEN
16:08:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/139
16:08:44 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-139 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:08:53 <MikeSmith> action-139?
16:08:53 <trackbot> ACTION-139 -- Manu Sporny to propose 3 separate HTML5 drafts and the external Microdata draft -- due 2009-10-01 -- OPEN
16:08:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/139
16:08:54 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-139 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:09:27 <plh> Manu: since rdfa is separated from the main body. it makes sense to pull the microdata section out of the main spec as well.
16:09:51 <Zakim> +jerryEzrol
16:10:24 <plh> ... we need pull it out, then we need 2 alternatives to reference normatively or not to microdata and html_rdfa.
16:10:35 <plh> ... I'm working on the 3 documents.
16:10:40 <Zakim> +[Apple]
16:11:14 <plh> ... there should be discussion about separating out microdata, and on making references to microdata/html+rdfa.
16:11:30 <Dashiva> Dashiva has joined #html-wg
16:11:34 <plh> Sam: now that we have the process in place, we can move forward
16:11:41 <dtran> dtran has joined #html-wg
16:11:47 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
16:12:05 <plh> Manu: I'll put a discussion topic then. My preference is of course to pull microdata out, and reference normatively microdata and html+rdfa
16:12:14 <plh> action-139 due 10-15
16:12:14 <trackbot> ACTION-139 Propose 3 separate HTML5 drafts and the external Microdata draft due date now 10-15
16:12:27 <mjs> fwiw my preference, and I think this would be easier to get consensus on, is to refer to neither normatively
16:12:30 <plh> action-137?
16:12:30 <trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-28 -- OPEN
16:12:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
16:12:31 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:12:58 <plh> Larry: we're having a meeting on Monday with Martin Duerst and some other folks.
16:13:06 <plh> ... I'm hoping to get Ian Hickson as well
16:13:21 <plh> ... hoping to make some progress on the process and on the content
16:13:40 <plh> ... the goal is to align html spec for URL with every other internet spec
16:13:40 <Zakim> -dsinger
16:13:46 <plh> ... so we need to get everybody on board
16:14:02 <plh> ... feel good on making progress on getting the parties on board
16:14:06 <Zakim> +dsinger
16:14:07 <plh> ... would report back next week
16:14:25 <plh> Sam: when will this be completed?
16:14:26 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:14:42 <plh> Larry: lots of parties that need to be involved. fallback is to say that html is different from others.
16:14:43 <dsinger> Zakim, mute dsinger
16:14:43 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
16:15:26 <plh> Sam: we need to set some expectation on when we'll use forward without waiting
16:15:36 <plh> Larry: 2 weeks before last call
16:15:52 <plh> Sam: we're trying to get this stuff done within a month. that's the rough idea.
16:15:56 <msporny_> zakim, who is noisy?
16:16:04 <Zakim> +Cooper.a
16:16:07 <Zakim> msporny_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sam (4%), [Microsoft] (9%), Masinter (25%)
16:16:08 <plh> Larry: it's progressing a lot faster than expected, so I'm optimistic.
16:16:19 <plh> action-137 due 10-15
16:16:19 <trackbot> ACTION-137 Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), due date now 10-15
16:16:39 <plh> Larry: not sure I'll be able to make the call, but will send email
16:16:42 <plh> action-138?
16:16:42 <trackbot> ACTION-138 -- Steve Faulkner to produce a matrix based on Henri's work -- due 2009-10-08 -- OPEN
16:16:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138
16:16:44 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-138 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:17:12 <Zakim> -Sam
16:17:17 <plh> Steve: still working on it. it's taking over by the joint task force at the moment
16:17:20 <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/2009/10/06-aapi-minutes.html
16:17:21 <pimpbot> Title: ARIA User Agent Implementation Task Force -- 06 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
16:17:24 <rubys> redialing
16:17:50 <plh> ... we've been discussing it. different approach now. working out from the spec and see where we disagree.
16:17:56 <Zakim> +Sam
16:18:01 <plh> ... we'll need to liaison with other WAI Groups as well
16:18:08 <plh> s/son/se/
16:18:28 <plh> Rich: will you be coming with proposed edits?
16:18:32 <plh> Steve: yes, that's the intent
16:18:36 <mjs> q+
16:19:30 <masinter> "some other folks": meeting at Google with Erik van der Poel, Mark Davis; call in with IETF area directors & proposed chair.
16:19:42 <plh> Rich: Sam, what's the expectation for the draft/edits?
16:19:49 <plh> Sam: we'll discuss that later in this call
16:19:50 <MikeSmith> q?
16:20:14 <rubys> ack next
16:20:19 <plh> Steve: I can report next week but this issue will be taken over by the task force
16:21:13 <plh> Maciej: we already an issue open for this. if what you're going to do is to propose edits, I recommend starting those specific changes in bugzilla, since we don't have a case of the editor rejecting the edits yet
16:21:38 <plh> action-138, due 10-22
16:21:45 <plh> Sam: and we'll discuss the process at the end
16:21:49 <plh> action-144?
16:21:49 <trackbot> ACTION-144 -- Manu Sporny to produce a separate spec for profile attribute -- due 2009-10-08 -- OPEN
16:21:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/144
16:22:00 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-144 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:22:20 <plh> Manu: this issue overlaps with RDFa slightly. profile is being in HTML 5. plan is get rid of it in the future.
16:22:34 <plh> s/being/being obsoleted/
16:22:37 <Julian> q+
16:23:00 <plh> ... some people have an issue with that. some are fine with it being replaced by a rel reserved word
16:23:13 <Julian> q+ to say that it currently is not conformant in HTML5
16:23:13 <plh> ... it attempts to solve the versioning problem in HTML.
16:23:26 <plh> ... so it's linked to a couple of issues
16:23:31 <msporny_> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/html5-epb.html
16:23:32 <pimpbot> Title: Extended Processing Behavior in HTML5 (at html5.digitalbazaar.com)
16:23:52 <plh> ... the proposal uses the version attribute
16:24:01 <plh> ... that's effectively what profile was trying to do
16:24:59 <plh> ... there has been discussed on there. we could make changes in RDFa 1.1 and still provide backward compatibility with RDFa 1.0 if we had this version attribute. so there is a real reason for that.
16:25:14 <plh> ... the discussion so far went through a wide range.
16:25:32 <plh> ... so there will be an other draft
16:25:36 <mjs> q+
16:25:43 <plh> ... hoping for more feedback on the new one
16:26:04 <plh> Larry: not sure it was clear how independent this work is from RDFa.
16:26:20 <mjs> I have issues with "version
16:26:22 <mjs> " too
16:26:23 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:26:32 <mjs> q-
16:26:32 <plh> Sam: the original issue is broader
16:26:36 <masinter> q+ to ask about linking this to the versioning question
16:26:37 <mjs> but I'll take it to email
16:26:48 <Zakim> +[Apple.a]
16:26:57 <plh> Manu: Doug Schepers is interested in using RDFa in SVG. It could potentially used in other drafts.
16:26:59 <Zakim> -dsinger
16:27:08 <dsinger> zakim, [apple.a] has dsinger
16:27:08 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
16:27:18 <rubys> ack next
16:27:18 <masinter> q-
16:27:19 <Zakim> Julian, you wanted to say that it currently is not conformant in HTML5
16:27:42 <plh> Julian: the current HTML 5 does not make profile conforming. it's only in the section about obsolete attributes that are not conforming.
16:28:04 <msporny_> +1 to what Julian said.
16:28:07 <plh> ... given the amount of documents that relies on @profile, or the amoun of specs using it, we need to make it conforming.
16:28:42 <plh> Sam: it would be good to use bugzilla as well here. nice to have a specific proposal associated with it
16:28:58 <plh> Manu: seems ok. I thought it was rejected by Ian in the past
16:29:18 <plh> Sam: I think Ian is not likely to take in but let's go through the bugzilla
16:29:29 <plh> s/take in/take it/
16:30:22 <Julian> (documents may not be *relying* on @profile, but they contain it because they want to conform to other specs, and there's simply no good reason to make this non-conformant until those other specs have moved to a different mechanism (which we'd need to specify))
16:30:41 <plh> ACTION: Manu to create a bugzilla entry on head/@profile
16:30:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Create a bugzilla entry on head/@profile [on Manu Sporny - due 2009-10-15].
16:30:56 <plh> action-144 due 10-29
16:30:56 <trackbot> ACTION-144 Produce a separate spec for profile attribute due date now 10-29
16:31:30 <paulc> ACTION-127 status: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0241.html
16:31:31 <pimpbot> Title: RE: ACTION-127: establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts from Paul Cotton on 2009-10-08 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:31:39 <plh> action-127?
16:31:39 <trackbot> ACTION-127 -- Paul Cotton to establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts -- due 2009-10-01 -- OPEN
16:31:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/127
16:31:40 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-127 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:31:51 <plh> Paul: still working with the HCG to figure upcoming last calls
16:32:03 <plh> ... responding to all solicitations on the chairs list
16:32:13 <plh> ... one we can use as an example is MathML 3.0
16:32:28 <plh> ... I arrange to have their last call close after TPAC
16:32:41 <plh> ... so we need volunteers to review it
16:32:49 <masinter> q+
16:33:01 <plh> ... currently we use MathML 2.0 in HTML 5. should we change it to MathML 3.0 would be one of the questions
16:33:17 <masinter> q-
16:33:24 <masinter> i'll send email
16:33:30 <plh> Sam: asking for volunteers seems fine to me. re MathML 3.0, let's enter an issue in bugzilla
16:33:46 <plh> ACTION: Paul to enter a bugzilla entry on MathML 3.0
16:33:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Enter a bugzilla entry on MathML 3.0 [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-15].
16:34:05 <plh> action-127 due 10-22
16:34:05 <trackbot> ACTION-127 establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts due date now 10-22
16:34:34 <plh> No new issues
16:34:38 <plh> No issue to close
16:34:45 <plh> Topic: CfC emails
16:35:01 <msporny_> q+
16:35:05 <plh> Sam: we got approval on both task forces. volunteers?
16:35:19 <plh> Paul: got one volunteer for test tf.
16:35:46 <plh> MichaelCooper: got some volunteers for the HTML/PF TF, from both sides.
16:36:03 <plh> Sam: so we need to have this in hand
16:36:14 <plh> MichaelCooper: will send the info over
16:36:36 <plh> Manu: testing. we got a suite of tests for RDFa in HTML5. we'll submit those
16:36:58 <plh> Paul: can you reply on the thread saying that?
16:37:04 <plh> Manu: sure
16:37:48 <plh> Larry: scope of testing tf. will the tf give feedback on things that are not testable?
16:38:02 <plh> Maciej: anyone can give feedback at anytime, that includes the TF
16:38:15 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7847] New: for - label - "Associatd" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0087.html>
16:38:29 <plh> Larry: I'm suggesting if it would be useful to highlight this so they keep it in mind. their goal is to improve the spec
16:38:43 <plh> Sam: we have a decision for the TF and you now want to change the scope?
16:38:53 <plh> Larry: if everyone is happy we can move on
16:38:59 <masinter> no, i'm just asking a question
16:39:01 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:39:11 <masinter> if no one wants to comment on my question, that's ok
16:39:33 <plh> Paul: first task of the TF is to define its scope actually...
16:39:44 <plh> ... send email to the TF or participate in it
16:39:49 <paulc> Testing TF re scope see point 8 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0687.html
16:39:50 <pimpbot> Title: RE: HTML WG Testing Task Force from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-17 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:40:00 <plh> Larry: thank you
16:40:10 <plh> Topic: TPAC/TC39
16:40:14 <rubys> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/
16:40:16 <pimpbot> Title: TPAC 2009: W3C Combined Technical Plenary / Advisory Committee Meeting (at www.w3.org)
16:40:20 <rubys> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2009-11-f2f/
16:40:41 <plh> Sam: there is a WBS going on. please reply there.
16:40:58 <plh> ... don't think we have a firm agenda yet.
16:41:09 <plh> ... friday morning, 10-12 is with TC39
16:41:14 <plh> ... comments?
16:41:19 <paulc> q+
16:41:28 <msporny_> q-
16:41:34 <plh> Larry: seems to me that it was more an issue with webapps than us
16:41:43 <rubys> ack next
16:41:48 <plh> Sam: it's not specific to us, it also includes webapps indeed
16:41:49 <rubys> ack next
16:42:02 <plh> Paul: how does TC39 going to meet with the webapps wg?
16:42:26 <plh> Sam: scheduling has been a logistic nightmare. best we could come with
16:42:56 <plh> Paul: the list coming out of TC39 was more pertinent to webapps...
16:43:03 <plh> q+
16:43:11 <rubys> ack next
16:43:19 <plh> Maciej: logistics would be difficult to change now, so we could host it
16:43:55 <masinter> just seems misleading to call this TC39/HTML when the topic isn't specific to HTML. I don't mind there being a meeting of W3C with TC39 which invites HTML WG members, it's just calling it a "joint meeting" that seems odd
16:43:56 <plh> Cynthia: the accessibility task force would be meeting on monday/tuesday, one item is to provide input for the TC39 as well
16:44:00 <rubys> ack next
16:44:03 <plh> Sam: please announce that on the list
16:45:10 <plh> Larry: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2009JulSep/0110.html
16:47:07 <plh> plh: [clarifies TC39 intent]
16:47:12 <rubys> - my       recollection was that TC39 originally suggested Wednesda
16:47:21 <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0189.html
16:47:23 <pimpbot> Title: HTML Working Group Decision Policy - for discussion from Maciej Stachowiak on 2009-10-07 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:47:26 <plh> Topic: HTML decision policy
16:47:46 <rubys> s/ my       recollection was that TC39 originally suggested Wednesda//
16:47:52 <dsinger> q+
16:47:53 <msporny_> dsinger - sam isn't cutting in an out for me
16:48:27 <rubys> zakim, mute [Apple]
16:48:27 <Zakim> [Apple] should now be muted
16:48:32 <msporny_> woops
16:48:40 <msporny_> zakim, unmute [Apple]
16:48:40 <Zakim> [Apple] should no longer be muted
16:49:08 <plh> zakim, mute Microsoft
16:49:08 <Zakim> [Microsoft] should now be muted
16:49:40 <Zakim> -Eliot_Graff
16:49:58 <Zakim> +Eliot_Graff
16:50:11 <plh> Maciej: we have a draft. two phases. first bugzilla. main difference is that we're using bugzilla as the main entry point instead of email
16:50:26 <plh> ... if you file a big, the editor will give you an initial feedback
16:50:40 <plh> ... if you're not satisfied with you, you can go in the issue tracker
16:50:44 <plh> ... escalation process
16:50:55 <plh> ... you would make a change proposal
16:51:05 <msporny_> zakim, who is on the call?
16:51:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see carlos (muted), annevk, msporny_, Plh (muted), Rich, laura (muted), Mike, Stevef, Matt, Julian, [Microsoft] (muted), adrianba, Masinter, jerryEzrol, [Apple],
16:51:08 <Zakim> ... Cooper.a, Sam, [Apple.a], Cynthia_Shelly, Eliot_Graff
16:51:09 <Zakim> [Apple.a] has dsinger
16:51:25 <plh> ... we're asking for change proposal to have a summary, a rational, and details of the proposal (spec text or edit instruction)
16:51:43 <plh> ... if you ask the Chairs upfront, you can ask for exception to spec text or edit instruction.
16:52:00 <plh> ... there will be deadlines associated with the escalation process
16:52:18 <plh> ... if no one volunteers for a change proposal, it's timeout after a month
16:52:26 <plh> ditto if you volunteer but don't deliver
16:52:48 <plh> Maciej: this is to guarantee everyone gets full due process.
16:53:03 <plh> Maciej: look at the document for details
16:53:18 <msporny_> +1 for this newly documented process... it's a move in the right direction.
16:53:24 <plh> ... especially if you want to provide feedback on the specs
16:53:49 <plh> Manu: how does it integrate with the WHATWG editorial process?
16:54:38 <plh> Maciej: if you want to communicate with Ian Hickson out of band, that's ok and we won't track you, but if you want your comment to be tracked by us, use our process
16:54:49 <adrianba> q+
16:54:49 <plh> ?: change proposal?
16:55:02 <masinter> is a goal to insure that the responses to comments come from "the working group" and are agreed to?
16:55:08 <plh> Maciej: could be a separate document, wiki, etc. we're happy to help.
16:55:12 <masinter> q+
16:55:32 <rubys> ack adrianba
16:55:48 <plh> Adrian: editor response section. spec diff, we have some technical issues regarding spec diff.
16:55:57 <richardschwerdtfe> q+
16:56:42 <masinter> and if so... is it also a goal to insure that changes to the spec which are not in response to comments also are reviewed by the working group?
16:56:44 <plh> Maciej: Ian mentioned that he has multiple changes queued up, so difficult to put it the exact revision number. we'll address that by making sure somebody develops a tool, or volunteers to produce the information.
16:57:02 <plh> Adrian: concerned about going through the spec for changes...
16:57:10 <plh> Maciej: you'll go throught the logs
16:57:34 <plh> Adrian: it's fine if the checkin addresses more than one issue, but concerned if there is no link.
16:57:47 <plh> Maicje: we'll refine the process/responses as we go
16:58:03 <plh> Maciej: for the summary changes, do a change proposal
16:58:17 <plh> ... are you ok with the one month deadline?
16:58:33 <paulc> q+
16:58:35 <masinter> q-
16:58:36 <plh> Cynthia: I'm ok with one month
16:58:45 <paulc> q-
16:59:05 <rubys> ack richardschwerdtfe
16:59:24 <plh> Rich: concerned about the size of changes sometimes. not sure if it will work.
16:59:41 <plh> ... the process is that we have an issue on standard ARIA support
16:59:43 <msporny__> msporny__ has joined #html-wg
16:59:54 <plh> ... huge set of changes, then we'll have discussion on bugzilla?
17:00:17 <Zakim> -Matt
17:00:27 <masinter> wonders if there might be a plan for reviewing the process and seeing if it is working, say, 6 weeks after the new process is instituted
17:00:30 <plh> Maciej: for ARIA, we need to have requests for each change related to ARIA. ie file bugzilla bugs individuals.
17:00:34 <plh> s/als/ally/
17:00:45 <plh> Rich: we're willing to give it a try
17:00:52 <rubys> +1 to masinter's suggestion
17:01:00 <plh> Cynthia: fine
17:01:02 <plh> Steve: ditto
17:01:16 <Zakim> -jerryEzrol
17:01:21 <rubys> ack next
17:01:22 <plh> Topic: Reminder about gathering
17:01:43 <plh> David: reminder about the gathering on accessiblity for media elements in HTML
17:01:43 <dsinger> I just wanted to remind people of the informal accessibility workshop.  Maybe folks are put off by the requirement to speak, but it doesn't have to be an academic paper.  Just identify in advance what expertise and knowledge and ideas you can share with the group; we want talkers and workers
17:01:47 <masinter> +q to tell people about http://doodle.com/afp2fuek353ynv38 survey working on IRIs/ URI issue
17:01:49 <pimpbot> Title: Doodle: Participation in IRI specification development (at doodle.com)
17:01:49 <plh> David: please sign up
17:02:03 <plh> Cynthia: remote participation?
17:02:13 <plh> David: we've got several requests, I'll check
17:02:26 <rubys> ack next
17:02:27 <Zakim> masinter, you wanted to tell people about http://doodle.com/afp2fuek353ynv38 survey working on IRIs/ URI issue
17:02:28 <pimpbot> Title: Doodle: Participation in IRI specification development (at doodle.com)
17:02:29 <Eliot_Graff> Eliot_Graff has joined #html-wg
17:02:43 <plh> Topic: Scribe for next meeting?
17:02:43 <masinter> q-
17:02:48 <plh> Sam: any volunteer?
17:02:50 <mjs> masinter, to address your last question, yes, we should monitor whether the process is working, and 6 weeks from now seems like a fine time to check in
17:02:58 <plh> [none heard]
17:03:10 <plh> [adjourned]
17:03:13 <Zakim> -Julian
17:03:14 <cardona507> thanks again everyone
17:03:16 <Zakim> -Masinter
17:03:16 <Zakim> -Sam
17:03:17 <Zakim> -Eliot_Graff
17:03:19 <Zakim> -carlos
17:03:20 <Zakim> -[Apple]
17:03:20 <Zakim> -Cooper.a
17:03:21 <Zakim> -[Apple.a]
17:03:21 <Zakim> -Stevef
17:03:24 <Zakim> -Plh
17:03:26 <Zakim> -adrianba
17:03:28 <Zakim> -msporny_
17:03:32 <Zakim> -laura
17:03:38 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
17:06:04 <Zakim> -annevk
17:06:07 <mjs> I'm happy to field further questions about the policy document on IRC btw if anyone wants to ask
17:06:14 <mjs> or comments
17:08:55 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:08:59 <Zakim> -Rich
17:10:02 <Zakim> -Mike
17:10:04 <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
17:10:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Julian, Eliot_Graff, carlos, +1.408.398.aaaa, annevk, msporny_, Sam, Plh, Rich, Mike, laura, Matt, +44.492.512.80.aabb, Stevef, dsinger, [Microsoft], adrianba,
17:10:07 <Zakim> ... Masinter, jerryEzrol, [Apple], Cooper.a, Cynthia_Shelly
17:16:35 <gavin> gavin has joined #html-wg
17:24:36 <MichaelC> MichaelC has left #html-wg
17:37:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-html-wg-minutes.html plh
17:51:30 <ROBOd> ROBOd has joined #html-wg
18:08:38 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7848] New: MathML version used in HTML5 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0088.html>
19:07:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-wg
20:06:58 <Dashiva> Dashiva has joined #html-wg
20:09:19 <mjs_> mjs_ has joined #html-wg
20:14:53 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
20:25:33 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
20:59:25 <pimpbot> planet: Html5 cache manifest in a UIWebView? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1540240/html5-cache-manifest-in-a-uiwebview>
21:20:39 <rubys> rubys has left #html-wg
21:39:33 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7849] New: Check whether .search should or shouldn't work with data: URLs <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0089.html>
21:58:53 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
22:07:03 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has left #html-wg
22:07:12 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-wg
22:09:04 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
22:41:48 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
22:49:28 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
22:51:40 <drunknbass_work> drunknbass_work has joined #html-wg
22:54:25 <drunknbass_work> drunknbass_work has joined #html-wg
22:59:51 <pimpbot> planet: I'll be speaking about HTML5 at Google Developer Day: November 6 in Prague, November 10 in Moscow. <11http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/4718777280>
23:34:36 <johndrinkwater> johndrinkwater has joined #html-wg
23:35:28 <deltab> deltab has joined #html-wg
23:53:41 <masinter`> masinter` has joined #html-wg
23:59:17 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg