IRC log of swxg on 2009-10-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:00:13 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swxg

15:00:13 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc

15:00:15 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

15:00:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #swxg

15:00:17 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 7994

15:00:18 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

15:00:18 [trackbot]

Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference

15:00:18 [trackbot]

Date: 07 October 2009

15:00:26 [hhalpin]

Argh!

15:00:33 [hhalpin]

Hmmm....

15:00:39 [hhalpin]

we may have an issue with Zakim.

15:00:42 [hhalpin]

Wait one sec...

15:00:57 [cperey]

cperey has joined #swxg

15:01:12 [AlexPassant]

we got a similar issue yesterday with SPARQL, had to move to another room

15:01:25 [cperey]

the date is Oct 7 (not Sept 30)

15:01:31 [DKA]

DKA has joined #swxg

15:01:47 [tinkster]

"the conference is restricted at this time" :-(

15:01:48 [DKA]

Hi - having Zakim troubles... "conference restricted"

15:01:51 [hhalpin]

OK, everyone hold on just for a second.

15:01:54 [hhalpin]

:)

15:01:58 [hhalpin]

Am working on this now...

15:02:03 [DKA]

"Halpin!"

15:02:07 [hhalpin]

might delay conference call 10 minutes.

15:02:31 [FabGandon]

FabGandon has joined #swxg

15:03:27 [hhalpin]

Zakim, space for 15?

15:03:29 [Zakim]

ok, hhalpin; conference Team_(swxg)15:03Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1603Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked

15:03:37 [petef]

petef has joined #swxg

15:04:18 [Zakim]

Team_(swxg)15:03Z has now started

15:04:19 [Zakim]

+Carine

15:04:29 [Zakim]

+DKA

15:04:43 [DKA]

zakom, who's here?

15:04:51 [hhalpin]

thanks carine!

15:05:17 [mischat]

hello all, I have had a node fail one on my systems :( will lurk on IRC today but wont be on the call.

15:05:53 [mischat]

hhalpin: I am aware I have outstanding tasks, will get them completed by next meetings

15:05:57 [mischat]

s/s$//

15:05:58 [hhalpin]

No problem...

15:06:00 [CaptSolo]

CaptSolo has joined #swxg

15:06:02 [DKA]

Can others now join at Zakim bridge with code 26632?

15:06:04 [Zakim]

+pchampin

15:06:26 [Adam]

I joined with 7994

15:06:35 [DKA]

Oh dear...

15:06:36 [MacTed]

hm. I just got in with 7994, but Zakim doesn't seem to know I'm here.

15:06:43 [MacTed]

gonna drop and rejoin with new code

15:06:47 [Zakim]

+cperey

15:07:06 [Zakim]

+OpenLink_Software

15:07:20 [MacTed]

Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed

15:07:20 [Zakim]

+MacTed; got it

15:07:22 [Zakim]

+tinkster

15:07:22 [MacTed]

Zakim, mute me

15:07:24 [Zakim]

MacTed should now be muted

15:07:30 [bblfish]

is anyone going to be on the telecon?

15:07:31 [Zakim]

-tinkster

15:07:35 [petef]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:07:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted)

15:07:42 [DKA]

Ok - let's all go over to 26632 for this call please.

15:07:49 [tinkster]

dammit, i don't know how to use my phone

15:08:01 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:08:01 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted)

15:08:04 [Zakim]

+tinkster

15:08:15 [hhalpin]

DKA - 7994 works

15:08:34 [cperey]

yes, but some are not on it

15:08:39 [DKA]

Harry are you on 7994?

15:08:41 [hhalpin]

Yes.

15:08:45 [hhalpin]

Rather confusedly enough :)

15:08:50 [DKA]

Zakim thinks we are on 26632 now.

15:08:59 [tinkster]

The wonders of modern technology.

15:09:06 [petef]

That rings and drops out for me

15:09:09 [Zakim]

+??P56

15:09:17 [AlexPassant]

Zakim, ??P56 is me

15:09:17 [Zakim]

+AlexPassant; got it

15:09:19 [cperey]

let's begin!!

15:09:20 [pchampin]

damned silos !!! :-D

15:09:23 [petef]

7994 worked, but Zakim didn't know I was there

15:09:25 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:09:25 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant

15:09:49 [petef]

which conf code is zakim in?

15:09:51 [evanpro]

hhalpin told me to wait until 20 min past the hour

15:09:57 [DKA]

Yes - Zakim now associates 26632 with this teleconf - I don't know how to switch it back 7994 - I suggest we all go onto 26632.

15:10:01 [tinkster]

Can we have a RESOLUTION about which room to have the call in?

15:10:08 [hhalpin]

RESOLVED: switching to 26632.

15:10:12 [DKA]

zakim, what is the code.

15:10:12 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'what is the code', DKA

15:10:14 [caribou]

zakim did know that some people were on 7994 but associateds this channel to 26632

15:10:15 [DKA]

zakim, what is the code?

15:10:15 [Zakim]

the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA

15:10:33 [Zakim]

+??P52

15:10:33 [AlexPassant]

we should add a TF on cross-zakim-channel portability in the upcoming WG

15:10:36 [DKA]

ok thanks

15:10:38 [Zakim]

+bblfish

15:10:46 [DKA]

follies

15:11:10 [Zakim]

+petef

15:11:17 [Zakim]

+ +44.131.208.aaaa

15:11:20 [Zakim]

+Adam

15:11:31 [hhalpin]

Zakim, ??aaaa is hhalpin

15:11:31 [Zakim]

sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named '??aaaa'

15:11:36 [hhalpin]

Zakim, aaaa is hhalpin

15:11:36 [Zakim]

+hhalpin; got it

15:12:09 [cperey]

what is the request?

15:12:31 [Adam]

where's the drums for your joke :)

15:12:37 [cperey]

no you are OK

15:12:42 [Zakim]

+FabGandon

15:12:49 [hhalpin]

Zakim, add agendum "Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z"

15:12:49 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, hhalpin

15:12:57 [cperey]

DKA sounds clear

15:13:08 [hhalpin]

Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z

15:13:12 [Zakim]

+ +03539149aabb

15:13:15 [hhalpin]

chair: hhalpin

15:13:33 [hhalpin]

scribe: peterf

15:13:33 [CaptSolo]

Zakim, aabb is me

15:13:33 [Zakim]

+CaptSolo; got it

15:13:37 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's here?

15:13:37 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant, ??P52, bblfish, petef, hhalpin, Adam, FabGandon, CaptSolo

15:13:40 [Zakim]

On IRC I see CaptSolo, petef, FabGandon, DKA, cperey, Zakim, RRSAgent, melvster, pchampin, evanpro, Adam, yuk, hhalpin, mischat, bblfish, MacTed, caribou, tinkster, AlexPassant,

15:13:43 [Zakim]

... trackbot

15:13:48 [hhalpin]

PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record

15:14:18 [hhalpin]

RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record

15:14:18 [tinkster]

evanpro, when you call in, we're on extension 26632 instead of 7994.

15:14:22 [hhalpin]

PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. October 14th

15:14:31 [hhalpin]

2. General Organization

15:14:39 [hhalpin]

TPAC, IIW

15:14:52 [hhalpin]

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Planning_for_TPAC_Open_Day

15:15:02 [hhalpin]

TPAC?

15:15:08 [hhalpin]

I imagine go a few...

15:15:16 [hhalpin]

Hoping to have an "Open Day"

15:15:27 [Zakim]

+??P67

15:15:36 [hhalpin]

but it conflicts with OAuth/OpenID Summit, which is also on Monday 2nd.

15:15:41 [petef]

hhalpin: you are scribing?

15:15:41 [hhalpin]

This is at Yahoo.

15:15:48 [melvster]

Zakim, ??P67 is me

15:15:48 [Zakim]

+melvster; got it

15:15:50 [bblfish]

do you have a URL for the openid oauth summit?

15:16:04 [petef]

I'm happy if you are.

15:16:49 [hhalpin]

http://openid.eventbrite.com/

15:16:54 [hhalpin]

Petef - please scribe!

15:17:00 [petef]

OK

15:17:04 [tinkster]

petef, hhalpin likes to type up everything he says to prevent himself from being misquoted.

15:17:23 [hhalpin]

I try to type dates and stuff...

15:17:33 [petef]

dka my initial view was we should have the open day anyway

15:17:54 [evanpro]

Seems like there'd be great synergy to have them complementary events

15:18:00 [petef]

[please tell me if I am missing scribing protocol]

15:18:18 [petef]

dka but now think maybe we should cancel the openday

15:18:24 [petef]

and work with the openid thing

15:19:00 [hhalpin]

trackbot, status?

15:19:08 [hhalpin]

rrsagent, pointer?

15:19:08 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc#T15-19-08

15:19:10 [petef]

thanks guys

15:19:24 [petef]

dka: should we just forget about it?

15:19:34 [petef]

hhalpin: how about Tue at the Marriot?

15:19:43 [bblfish]

Well I can get Sun on Tuesday too

15:19:45 [cperey]

what about later in the week?

15:19:51 [petef]

hhalpin: not too many people registered

15:20:16 [petef]

dka: we could invite people to observe our working group

15:20:35 [petef]

dka: unless we could get externally parties in to present, like on the calls

15:21:02 [petef]

hhalpin: we could invite people Michelle Adamic (sp?) has a list of names we could invite

15:21:11 [cperey]

many apologies but what about having Open Day on another day?

15:21:19 [cperey]

later in week?

15:21:24 [evanpro]

two days close together please

15:21:31 [evanpro]

I would attend if both events were close together

15:21:41 [evanpro]

A week apart makes things hard for out-of-towners

15:21:49 [petef]

zakim, who is speaking?

15:21:59 [cperey]

Henry

15:22:00 [Zakim]

petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (5%), bblfish (9%)

15:22:03 [petef]

Thanks

15:22:18 [bblfish]

So the question is how many people would be able to come on Monday?

15:22:39 [petef]

henry: it's only an openid meeting, we aren't expecting any new announcements

15:22:41 [bblfish]

there are three confilcting events

15:22:43 [hhalpin]

My concern was two-fold: first, conflicting events might be misinterpreted by OpenID/OAuth folks

15:22:47 [bblfish]

there is Apache conf

15:22:50 [bblfish]

there is IIW

15:22:52 [cperey]

New proposal: what about having an Open Day when there are not conflicting events?

15:23:00 [bblfish]

there is W3C conf

15:23:05 [hhalpin]

Any ideas?

15:23:06 [cperey]

early Dec?

15:23:13 [cperey]

I mean completely separate

15:24:04 [petef]

cperey: I could take an action item to propose other dates at anoher location, not TPAC

15:24:12 [bblfish]

ok, then the problem is that a lot of people won't be out there

15:24:14 [bblfish]

anymore

15:24:22 [petef]

dka: I won't be out in the Bay area again for a while

15:24:45 [petef]

dka: part of the idea of doing it at TPAC was to leverage people's attendance

15:24:58 [petef]

dka: could we do a hybrid event with the openid folk?

15:25:06 [bblfish]

sounds good too

15:25:08 [petef]

dka: half a day on each

15:25:21 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's talking?

15:25:24 [petef]

dka: is that a middle way that would satisfy everybody?

15:25:31 [Zakim]

hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (43%), bblfish (13%)

15:26:02 [petef]

dka: if so we could start drafting a page around that and get it out to people

15:26:29 [hhalpin]

My question is can we just get these people to get to TPAC - i.e. TPAC into an "open day"

15:26:39 [hhalpin]

Assuming very few people are coming

15:26:42 [bblfish]

I think I agree with that

15:27:02 [petef]

zakim, who is talking?

15:27:12 [Zakim]

petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (9%)

15:27:12 [bblfish]

how many people can come to OpenDay?

15:27:52 [petef]

dka: concerned that we may not be able to network a largish event at short notice

15:28:05 [bblfish]

the IIW will be all week?

15:28:14 [petef]

hhalpin?: won't people also be attending IIW?

15:28:15 [bblfish]

sorry I mean they will be all week

15:28:37 [petef]

dka: we want to make sure we aren't stepping on any toes

15:28:50 [petef]

dka: seen as trying to put on a competing event

15:29:54 [danbri]

danbri has joined #swxg

15:29:58 [petef]

dka: but if we could get some CTOs and mktg consultants into TPAc that would be good

15:30:14 [petef]

zakim, who is talking?

15:30:24 [Zakim]

petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (19%), bblfish (10%), hhalpin (68%)

15:30:36 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:30:36 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant, ??P52, bblfish, petef, hhalpin, Adam, FabGandon, CaptSolo, melvster

15:30:38 [petef]

hhalpin: we need to move on

15:30:40 [cperey]

yep, meeting after

15:31:21 [Zakim]

+ +1.514.525.aacc

15:31:40 [petef]

zakim, who is talking?

15:31:40 [cperey]

henry you are breaking up

15:31:51 [Zakim]

petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.514.525.aacc (54%), DKA (13%), hhalpin (5%)

15:31:57 [evanpro]

petef, 514-554-3826 == me

15:32:17 [petef]

zakim, 3826 is evanpro

15:32:17 [Zakim]

sorry, petef, I do not recognize a party named '3826'

15:32:32 [petef]

zakim, aacc is evanpro

15:32:32 [Zakim]

+evanpro; got it

15:33:10 [cperey]

haha!

15:33:13 [Zakim]

+DKA.a

15:33:13 [Zakim]

-DKA

15:33:19 [tinkster]

danbri: we're not in 2994.

15:33:20 [petef]

dka: evan is on the line, let's make the most of his time

15:33:26 [DKA]

zakim, dka.a is dka

15:33:26 [Zakim]

+dka; got it

15:33:29 [petef]

evanpro: I'm enjoying listening

15:33:42 [tinkster]

we're in 26632

15:33:43 [Adam]

26632 is the new code dan

15:33:54 [petef]

dka: we'll go straight to... the invited guests

15:33:54 [hhalpin]

3. Invited Guest - Evan Prodromou from OpenMicroBlogging and Alex Passant on Semantic Microblogging

15:33:59 [Zakim]

+??P4

15:33:59 [hhalpin]

Evan?

15:34:03 [evanpro]

I'm here

15:34:21 [hhalpin]

Evan Prodromou of OpenMicroblogging will give a talk on his work on OpenMicroblogging (see the specification) and its connection to the wider Social Web ecoystem

15:34:30 [petef]

dka: hopefully evanpro can give us an interesting introduction to OMB

15:35:05 [petef]

evanpro: a conjunction of openid, oauth and swxg would be enough to get me out to CA

15:35:25 [petef]

evanpro: I am the inventor and shepherd of OMB

15:35:55 [petef]

evanpro: bg on myself - working on open source and content for 15 yrs

15:35:59 [petef]

esp wikitravel

15:36:09 [petef]

around issues of identity

15:36:19 [danbri]

http://evan.prodromou.name/

15:36:23 [petef]

briefly on JSF Council

15:36:27 [danbri]

http://identi.ca/evan

15:36:38 [petef]

with the launch of Twitter in 2007

15:36:47 [petef]

there was an expolsion of interest in OMB

15:37:02 [petef]

defined as exchange of small text message with your social network

15:37:10 [petef]

twitter, jaiku, pownce etc.

15:37:26 [petef]

contrast to blogging , tumblelogs and social bookmarking

15:37:49 [petef]

people seem to enjoy OMB and the responsiveness of it

15:38:06 [petef]

as the growth of witter got ahead of their ability to support it

15:38:26 [petef]

interest grew in the evolution of an open standard for microblogging (OMB)

15:38:43 [petef]

seeing as noone else was doing it I thought I would set up an easy hack

15:38:50 [petef]

federated

15:39:04 [petef]

started laconica in May 2008, hosting identi.ca

15:39:22 [petef]

includes features important to the future of the open social web

15:39:38 [petef]

openid, foaf, import and export of data

15:39:54 [petef]

you can take the identi.ca source and install it in silo

15:40:09 [petef]

so decided to create a protocol

15:40:19 [petef]

my design criteria were

15:40:24 [petef]

http based system

15:40:37 [petef]

tend to go for the low end on servers

15:40:52 [petef]

so that you could install a node on commodity shared hosting

15:41:03 [petef]

wanted it to work with openid and oauth

15:41:19 [petef]

and to be realtively easy to implement with existing tools and libraries

15:41:29 [petef]

flirted with openid attrib exchange

15:41:33 [danbri]

cf http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html

15:41:47 [petef]

but the mechanics don't allow pushing and pulling to other openid servers

15:41:53 [petef]

so wouldn't really work

15:42:01 [petef]

instead used oauth

15:42:26 [petef]

subscribing to somebody's notices means that you authorise another server to push to your inbox

15:42:30 [petef]

four players:

15:42:49 [petef]

publisher, subscriber, publiher-server, subscriber-server

15:43:17 [petef]

profiles within OMB are http urls

15:43:32 [petef]

subscriber provides their url to the publisher server

15:43:42 [petef]

which uses oauth discovery

15:43:49 [petef]

still very fluid

15:43:58 [danbri]

q+ to ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote subscription scenarios

15:43:59 [petef]

OMB uses XRD simple files

15:44:17 [petef]

draft since deprecated for LARDD

15:44:25 [tinkster]

s/LARDD/LRDD/

15:44:27 [petef]

will share links later

15:44:37 [petef]

use oauth discovery to find endpoints

15:44:45 [petef]

two additional endpoints are defined

15:45:06 [petef]

the user experience is to go through the typically oauth dance

15:45:21 [petef]

token exchange

15:45:34 [petef]

unlike some other pubsub mechanisms

15:45:50 [petef]

there's an expectation that I should know who subscribes to my feed

15:45:59 [petef]

closer relationship

15:46:13 [petef]

pass along profile info in oauth dance

15:46:28 [petef]

avatar, full name, location, homepage, short bio

15:46:33 [petef]

via http post params

15:46:41 [petef]

once sub complete

15:46:52 [petef]

the two additional endpoints are used

15:47:00 [petef]

push based (unlike atom or rss)

15:47:08 [petef]

no polling

15:47:18 [petef]

good responsiveness, better performance

15:47:30 [petef]

post notice endpoint

15:47:43 [petef]

used by pulisher server

15:48:07 [petef]

profile update endpoint

15:48:18 [petef]

used if publisher profile chganges

15:48:48 [petef]

any kind of client to server api is out of scope

15:49:31 [petef]

laconica (now called status net) uses a clone of the twitter api

15:49:38 [petef]

also working on an atompub version

15:50:12 [Zakim]

-hhalpin

15:50:20 [petef]

any kind of syntax def'n is also out of scope

15:50:25 [Adam]

the pub/sub explanation sounds very similar to pubsubhubhub

15:50:27 [petef]

just pushes plain text

15:50:57 [petef]

hashtags #foo and directed messages @bar are not defined in OMB

15:51:12 [petef]

0.1 protocol has been fairly successful

15:51:19 [petef]

thousands of nodes on the network

15:51:24 [petef]

important weaknesses

15:51:35 [petef]

no system for unsolicited notices

15:51:55 [petef]

if you aren't subscribed to me no way for me to message you

15:52:08 [tinkster1]

tinkster1 has joined #swxg

15:52:12 [Zakim]

+hhalpin

15:52:13 [tinkster1]

Adam, it sort of is, but there's no hub per se. Updates are pushed from publisher server to subscriber server.

15:52:26 [petef]

parsing syntax left out which means the hashtags and replies have to be guessed at

15:52:39 [petef]

threading questions across multiple servers

15:52:48 [petef]

no threading bult in

15:53:12 [petef]

no direct private messages eiother

15:53:55 [petef]

low level thing, in oauth two kinds of keys - one to identify a particular conversation and one for th sending server -

15:54:07 [petef]

OMB actually uses the root URL of the sending server

15:54:13 [petef]

hard to verify in the client

15:54:28 [petef]

I'd like to talk about where we are going with OMB 0.2

15:54:49 [petef]

four other implementations:

15:55:02 [petef]

openmicroblogger, jaiku (at 0.2), etc.

15:55:39 [petef]

for 0.2 biggest change is move away from plain text to atom entries for pushing notices

15:55:47 [petef]

richer data format

15:56:04 [DKA]

NB: In Vodafone we are already using laconi.ca for an internal microblog system and we are looking at using it as a platform for building mobile social network prototype apps.

15:56:08 [petef]

we'll also e able to leverage work around activitystreams

15:56:13 [petef]

which is also atom based

15:56:20 [danbri]

http://activitystrea.ms/

15:56:30 [danbri]

(aside: they're moving this to be equally atom and json)

15:56:31 [petef]

second important thing is we will include parsed html

15:56:44 [petef]

some security issues obviously

15:56:52 [petef]

will require sanitizing

15:57:02 [petef]

but good step for usability

15:57:09 [petef]

adding in-reply-to info

15:57:16 [petef]

will improve threading

15:57:41 [petef]

@xyz will resolve to an identity url for the recipient

15:57:47 [petef]

that will travel with the packet

15:57:57 [petef]

replacing oauth discovery with LRRD

15:58:09 [petef]

support for unsolicited messages

15:58:12 [tinkster1]

s/LRRD/LRDD/

15:58:20 [petef]

in protocol, up to clients what they do with it

15:58:35 [petef]

proposal to provision verifiable user keys

15:58:50 [petef]

[tinkster I'll get it right eventually]

15:59:07 [petef]

we want something interoperable by the end of the year

15:59:17 [petef]

relation to openid

15:59:23 [petef]

OMB identity is an URL

15:59:33 [petef]

use YADIS

15:59:40 [Zakim]

-??P52

15:59:47 [petef]

want to make sure we mesh nicely with openid

16:00:04 [petef]

two new feed based systems announced

16:00:07 [danbri]

bradfitz

16:00:09 [danbri]

fitzpatrick

16:00:09 [petef]

pubsubhubbub

16:00:16 [petef]

atom based

16:00:21 [danbri]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubSubHubbub

16:00:24 [petef]

and rsscloud

16:00:31 [rreck]

rreck has joined #SWXG

16:00:38 [petef]

embedded into rss 2.0 but never really implemented

16:00:42 [petef]

now being revived

16:01:01 [petef]

neither supports feeding back subscriber relation to publisher

16:01:35 [petef]

we are implementing both of these and trying to work with the standards to add in subscriber publisher feedback

16:02:14 [petef]

activity streams - the hard part will be the unification between AS, atom and opensocial

16:02:24 [petef]

always wanted http based system

16:02:40 [petef]

but would also like an upshift to xmpp based if both servers support it

16:02:56 [petef]

well known protocol, very nice pubsub system

16:03:04 [petef]

some work done to adapt it for OMB

16:03:22 [petef]

looking into that

16:03:27 [petef]

stubs for that in 0.2

16:03:37 [petef]

discovery process over the next few months

16:03:40 [petef]

+q

16:03:45 [hhalpin]

ack danbri

16:03:45 [Zakim]

danbri, you wanted to ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote subscription scenarios

16:03:53 [danbri]

peterf first

16:04:01 [hhalpin]

ack petef

16:04:03 [AlexPassant]

q+ for synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other vocabs

16:04:12 [Zakim]

+??P7

16:04:19 [FabGandon]

FabGandon has left #swxg

16:04:26 [rreck]

zakim, ??P7 is me

16:04:26 [Zakim]

+rreck; got it

16:04:30 [Zakim]

-FabGandon

16:04:31 [rreck]

zakim, mute me

16:04:31 [Zakim]

rreck should now be muted

16:04:32 [petef]

petef: have you looked at wave-protocol in relation to OM

16:04:34 [petef]

B

16:04:43 [Zakim]

-hhalpin

16:04:59 [petef]

evanpro: v. intersting but ow it will fit into OMB is still open

16:05:06 [DKA]

q+ to ask about location...

16:05:11 [danbri]

q?

16:05:25 [danbri]

ok i fixed my audio, i'm next on queue please :)

16:05:31 [petef]

for low end target systems wave won't be available for quite a while

16:05:54 [petef]

whether it picks up as ubiquitous will be interesting

16:06:04 [petef]

my hope is that it does see some success

16:06:16 [petef]

don't think the current generation fits well with OMB

16:06:34 [tinkster1]

yes

16:06:39 [petef]

interested in wave and how it develops

16:06:51 [tinkster1]

no longer audible

16:06:51 [rreck]

you were audiable

16:06:54 [DKA]

losing part of danbri's speech

16:06:59 [danbri]

q:

16:07:03 [danbri]

have you done any usability testing

16:07:09 [danbri]

esp on remote subscribe aspects of OMB

16:07:18 [danbri]

do users understand what's going on, etc

16:07:26 [petef]

evanpro: usability testing - pretty important usability problems

16:07:36 [petef]

v. similar to usability problems for openid

16:07:41 [petef]

mechanism is very similar

16:07:50 [petef]

I need to remember my identity url

16:07:53 [danbri]

cf http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/

16:08:10 [petef]

and provide it to remote servers which use it to start a conversation on the back end

16:08:19 [petef]

we haven't done much work on that

16:08:28 [petef]

hopwe we can borrow from openid world

16:08:47 [danbri]

i'm interested to see more work figuring out how much implies protocol design changes, and how much can be done with improved web design, addons etc

16:08:48 [petef]

widgets and keeping an eye on webfinger

16:08:53 [danbri]

http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/

16:09:17 [danbri]

http://hueniverse.com/2009/09/implementing-webfinger/

16:09:22 [petef]

users associate people with email type addresses

16:09:26 [petef]

and urls with docs

16:09:27 [danbri]

thanks evanpro, ... i think webfinger pretty relevant here

16:09:43 [danbri]

http://hueniverse.com/webfinger/

16:09:50 [petef]

webfinger also nice simple way to include addresses into OMB msgs

16:09:53 [tinkster1]

http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/fingerpoint/

16:10:10 [petef]

passive subscription

16:10:26 [danbri]

"""What Problem is WebFinger Trying to Solve? ... WebFinger is trying to address the lack of adoption and usability of current HTTP-URI-based user identifier solutions, most notably OpenID. """

16:10:56 [petef]

would speed things up and improve usability

16:11:14 [bblfish]

q+

16:11:30 [DKA]

q?

16:11:33 [petef]

could also happen with a global directory, although there are concerns about recentralisation

16:11:34 [danbri]

(so maybe some role for http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/ etc ?)

16:11:35 [DKA]

ack alex

16:11:35 [Zakim]

AlexPassant, you wanted to discuss synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other vocabs

16:11:43 [petef]

zakim, who is talking?

16:11:51 [danbri]

skypish sounds

16:11:54 [Zakim]

petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (9%)

16:12:24 [petef]

alex(?): very brief overview of SMOB (audio not clear)

16:12:48 [petef]

wondering how it relates to OMB

16:13:06 [tinkster1]

Alex, StatusNet already published FOAF, RSS and SIOC data.

16:13:08 [AlexPassant]

SMOB: http://smob.sioc-project.org/

16:13:08 [petef]

evanpro: we support shark(?)

16:13:15 [petef]

s/shark/sioc/

16:13:16 [tinkster1]

s/shark/SIOC/

16:13:18 [danbri]

SIOC is pronounced like Shark, yes

16:13:27 [danbri]

(irish word)

16:13:33 [petef]

doesn't address server to server mechanism

16:13:50 [CaptSolo]

danbri: commonly pronounced as "shock"

16:13:53 [petef]

similar to smtp

16:14:18 [petef]

SMOB does a good job of keeping your published info and pushing it out

16:14:28 [petef]

but not really server to server interaction

16:14:30 [danbri]

(shark is commonly pronounced 'shock' in some countries too ;)

16:14:39 [petef]

wouldn't be a big leap to implement OMB in SMOB

16:14:46 [petef]

would be very welcome

16:14:57 [CaptSolo]

danbri: the proper irish pronounciation is similar to "shuck" and means frost (imagine social networks connecting together like snowflakes or frost on a window)

16:15:02 [petef]

OMB doesn't (yet) cover sharing the social graph

16:15:15 [petef]

you can use other mechanisms, through FOAF say,

16:15:20 [tinkster1]

http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-10-07.html#T11-56-51

16:15:27 [petef]

might be nice to promote it or provide an url

16:15:36 [petef]

as part of profile info passed through

16:15:51 [petef]

SMOB is cool, would love to see it brought together with OMB

16:15:53 [DKA]

q?

16:16:12 [danbri]

q+ to ask if there is anything in OMB that makes one-domain-name-per-user difficult

16:16:14 [petef]

alex: more than happy to work together

16:16:56 [petef]

evanpro: one of our devs took the OMB stuff out of staus net and turned it into a WP plugin and a PHP library

16:17:05 [danbri]

q?

16:17:17 [tinkster1]

you're breaking up

16:17:20 [danbri]

did we have DKA's question yet?

16:17:39 [petef]

hhalpin: how are you using FOAF?

16:17:43 [DKA]

nope

16:17:45 [DKA]

:)

16:17:48 [bblfish]

w: are you making use of foaf to do something

16:17:49 [DKA]

ack bbl

16:17:50 [tinkster1]

http://identi.ca/tobyink/foaf

16:17:58 [petef]

evanpro: we provided FOAF info and use FOAF ids in graph

16:18:19 [petef]

toby has been great in helping us implement that and the SIOC stuff better

16:18:27 [danbri]

try putting http://identi.ca/danbri into http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/exploreapi.html

16:18:36 [danbri]

google sgapi indexes identi.ca foaf

16:18:53 [petef]

Could use FOAF for profile exchange in OMB

16:18:54 [Zakim]

+hhalpin

16:19:09 [petef]

makes more sense for discovery and so usability

16:19:15 [petef]

who should I follow?

16:19:23 [petef]

who might I kalready know?

16:19:23 [danbri]

poss foaf use cases 'what kind of people should i be subscribing to, who sohuld i follow, who is there that i know, ...'

16:19:31 [danbri]

(i think also around groups, ...)

16:19:44 [petef]

groups is another great case

16:20:09 [petef]

there's going to be a close interaction between OMB and FOAF

16:20:17 [tinkster1]

SELECT ?person WHERE { ?me subscribesTo ?x , ?y . ?x subscribesTo ?person . ?y subscribesTo ?person . FILTER (?x != ?y) }

16:20:19 [danbri]

evanpro, if there are tweaks you need to foaf to support any of these use cases, ... that's not so hard to arrange!

16:20:22 [Zakim]

-Carine

16:20:26 [Zakim]

-bblfish

16:20:34 [danbri]

q?

16:20:45 [petef]

dka: we are limited on time

16:20:52 [danbri]

i've already had a question so i'll take it to email!

16:20:59 [danbri]

a-

16:21:01 [danbri]

q-

16:21:02 [petef]

dka: are you thinking about making lcation part of the platform

16:21:08 [danbri]

(my q was basically http://lists.status.net/pipermail/statusnet-dev/2009-August/002117.html again)

16:21:22 [petef]

one reason many of us use Jaiku is the sophisticated support for location

16:21:58 [petef]

evanpro: fascinating that we are reintroducing location to the web

16:22:17 [petef]

in OMB 0.1 we only have a points tring associated with a profile

16:22:30 [petef]

if I update it, that can change (but would be lost)

16:22:53 [petef]

making changes to staus net to support a richer more machine friendly location format

16:23:01 [petef]

will be out in 0.9 later this month

16:23:05 [tinkster1]

geonames IIRC?

16:23:08 [Zakim]

-hhalpin

16:23:09 [petef]

lat long and geo place name vocab

16:23:20 [petef]

where on earth, geonames, OSM

16:24:07 [petef]

we will also include location info for each notice

16:24:28 [AlexPassant]

sounds along the lines of the linkage we're doing in SMOB with geonames and DBpedia, great synergies

16:24:47 [petef]

would make sense to get it into OMB 0.2

16:25:03 [petef]

optional but important

16:25:20 [petef]

moving to atom - should be easily included in atom entries

16:25:37 [danbri]

(http://status.net/trac/report/6 seems interesting to poke around...)

16:25:55 [petef]

evanpro: would love to attend open day, thanks for having me on the call

16:26:06 [petef]

evan@identi.ca

16:26:11 [petef]

evan@status.net

16:26:18 [hhalpin]

evanpro - will stay in touch via e-mail, and thanks so much for being on call!

16:26:28 [petef]

dka: thank you

16:26:28 [danbri]

thanks evanpro!

16:26:36 [petef]

dka: we have to close the call now

16:26:41 [Zakim]

-tinkster

16:27:07 [petef]

dka: we need tocome up with a plan for the openday offline by tomorrow

16:27:14 [danbri]

zakim, who is on the phone?

16:27:14 [Zakim]

On the phone I see pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), AlexPassant, petef, Adam, CaptSolo, melvster, evanpro, dka, danbri, rreck (muted)

16:27:32 [caribou]

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16:27:34 [petef]

dka: how to mesh with SWXG workshop, openid and oauth

16:27:53 [hhalpin]

RRSAgent, create minutes

16:27:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin

16:28:02 [hhalpin]

Oh, can we have an ACTION by someone

16:28:11 [hhalpin]

to summarize that call?

16:28:11 [pchampin]

bye

16:28:13 [Zakim]

-danbri

16:28:14 [Zakim]

-CaptSolo

16:28:14 [Zakim]

-cperey

16:28:15 [AlexPassant]

thanks, bye

16:28:15 [Zakim]

-petef

16:28:15 [Zakim]

-Adam

16:28:16 [Zakim]

-pchampin

16:28:17 [Zakim]

-evanpro

16:28:18 [petef]

petef has left #swxg

16:28:19 [Zakim]

-AlexPassant

16:28:21 [tinkster]

I can summarise

16:28:21 [Zakim]

-MacTed

16:28:24 [Zakim]

-dka

16:28:29 [DKA]

good point harry -

16:28:30 [hhalpin]

thanks tinkster!

16:28:31 [rreck]

way to go tinkster

16:28:32 [DKA]

:)

16:28:37 [DKA]

ACTION: Dan to summarize to call.

16:28:37 [trackbot]

Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Dan

16:28:37 [trackbot]

Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dappelqu, danbri)

16:28:48 [hhalpin]

ACTION: tinkster to summarize Evan's talk

16:28:48 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-96 - Summarize Evan's talk [on Toby Inkster - due 2009-10-14].

16:28:50 [DKA]

ACTION: dappelqu to summarize to call.

16:28:51 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-97 - Summarize to call. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-10-14].

16:29:01 [DKA]

:)

16:29:02 [hhalpin]

Dan - do you really want to do it, or tinkster?

16:29:11 [Zakim]

-rreck

16:29:12 [DKA]

If tinkster can do it that would be great.

16:29:20 [hhalpin]

OK, will delete that from the minutes then...

16:29:21 [tinkster]

I'm happy to.

16:29:21 [DKA]

thanks toby!

16:29:33 [hhalpin]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:29:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin

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16:34:13 [Zakim]

disconnecting the lone participant, melvster, in Team_(swxg)15:03Z

16:34:16 [Zakim]

Team_(swxg)15:03Z has ended

16:34:17 [Zakim]

Attendees were Carine, DKA, pchampin, cperey, MacTed, tinkster, AlexPassant, bblfish, petef, +44.131.208.aaaa, Adam, hhalpin, FabGandon, +03539149aabb, CaptSolo, melvster,

16:34:19 [Zakim]

... +1.514.525.aacc, evanpro, danbri, rreck

17:19:01 [CaptSolo]

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