IRC log of swxg on 2009-10-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:00:13 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:00:13 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc
15:00:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swxg
15:00:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7994
15:00:18 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:00:18 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:00:18 [trackbot]
Date: 07 October 2009
15:00:26 [hhalpin]
Argh!
15:00:33 [hhalpin]
Hmmm....
15:00:39 [hhalpin]
we may have an issue with Zakim.
15:00:42 [hhalpin]
Wait one sec...
15:00:57 [cperey]
cperey has joined #swxg
15:01:12 [AlexPassant]
we got a similar issue yesterday with SPARQL, had to move to another room
15:01:25 [cperey]
the date is Oct 7 (not Sept 30)
15:01:31 [DKA]
DKA has joined #swxg
15:01:47 [tinkster]
"the conference is restricted at this time" :-(
15:01:48 [DKA]
Hi - having Zakim troubles... "conference restricted"
15:01:51 [hhalpin]
OK, everyone hold on just for a second.
15:01:54 [hhalpin]
:)
15:01:58 [hhalpin]
Am working on this now...
15:02:03 [DKA]
"Halpin!"
15:02:07 [hhalpin]
might delay conference call 10 minutes.
15:02:31 [FabGandon]
FabGandon has joined #swxg
15:03:27 [hhalpin]
Zakim, space for 15?
15:03:29 [Zakim]
ok, hhalpin; conference Team_(swxg)15:03Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1603Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
15:03:37 [petef]
petef has joined #swxg
15:04:18 [Zakim]
Team_(swxg)15:03Z has now started
15:04:19 [Zakim]
+Carine
15:04:29 [Zakim]
+DKA
15:04:43 [DKA]
zakom, who's here?
15:04:51 [hhalpin]
thanks carine!
15:05:17 [mischat]
hello all, I have had a node fail one on my systems :( will lurk on IRC today but wont be on the call.
15:05:53 [mischat]
hhalpin: I am aware I have outstanding tasks, will get them completed by next meetings
15:05:57 [mischat]
s/s$//
15:05:58 [hhalpin]
No problem...
15:06:00 [CaptSolo]
CaptSolo has joined #swxg
15:06:02 [DKA]
Can others now join at Zakim bridge with code 26632?
15:06:04 [Zakim]
+pchampin
15:06:26 [Adam]
I joined with 7994
15:06:35 [DKA]
Oh dear...
15:06:36 [MacTed]
hm. I just got in with 7994, but Zakim doesn't seem to know I'm here.
15:06:43 [MacTed]
gonna drop and rejoin with new code
15:06:47 [Zakim]
+cperey
15:07:06 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
15:07:20 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
15:07:20 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:07:22 [Zakim]
+tinkster
15:07:22 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:07:24 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:07:30 [bblfish]
is anyone going to be on the telecon?
15:07:31 [Zakim]
-tinkster
15:07:35 [petef]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted)
15:07:42 [DKA]
Ok - let's all go over to 26632 for this call please.
15:07:49 [tinkster]
dammit, i don't know how to use my phone
15:08:01 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted)
15:08:04 [Zakim]
+tinkster
15:08:15 [hhalpin]
DKA - 7994 works
15:08:34 [cperey]
yes, but some are not on it
15:08:39 [DKA]
Harry are you on 7994?
15:08:41 [hhalpin]
Yes.
15:08:45 [hhalpin]
Rather confusedly enough :)
15:08:50 [DKA]
Zakim thinks we are on 26632 now.
15:08:59 [tinkster]
The wonders of modern technology.
15:09:06 [petef]
That rings and drops out for me
15:09:09 [Zakim]
+??P56
15:09:17 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P56 is me
15:09:17 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
15:09:19 [cperey]
let's begin!!
15:09:20 [pchampin]
damned silos !!! :-D
15:09:23 [petef]
7994 worked, but Zakim didn't know I was there
15:09:25 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:09:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant
15:09:49 [petef]
which conf code is zakim in?
15:09:51 [evanpro]
hhalpin told me to wait until 20 min past the hour
15:09:57 [DKA]
Yes - Zakim now associates 26632 with this teleconf - I don't know how to switch it back 7994 - I suggest we all go onto 26632.
15:10:01 [tinkster]
Can we have a RESOLUTION about which room to have the call in?
15:10:08 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: switching to 26632.
15:10:12 [DKA]
zakim, what is the code.
15:10:12 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'what is the code', DKA
15:10:14 [caribou]
zakim did know that some people were on 7994 but associateds this channel to 26632
15:10:15 [DKA]
zakim, what is the code?
15:10:15 [Zakim]
the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA
15:10:33 [Zakim]
+??P52
15:10:33 [AlexPassant]
we should add a TF on cross-zakim-channel portability in the upcoming WG
15:10:36 [DKA]
ok thanks
15:10:38 [Zakim]
+bblfish
15:10:46 [DKA]
follies
15:11:10 [Zakim]
+petef
15:11:17 [Zakim]
+ +44.131.208.aaaa
15:11:20 [Zakim]
+Adam
15:11:31 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??aaaa is hhalpin
15:11:31 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named '??aaaa'
15:11:36 [hhalpin]
Zakim, aaaa is hhalpin
15:11:36 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
15:12:09 [cperey]
what is the request?
15:12:31 [Adam]
where's the drums for your joke :)
15:12:37 [cperey]
no you are OK
15:12:42 [Zakim]
+FabGandon
15:12:49 [hhalpin]
Zakim, add agendum "Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z"
15:12:49 [Zakim]
I don't understand you, hhalpin
15:12:57 [cperey]
DKA sounds clear
15:13:08 [hhalpin]
Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z
15:13:12 [Zakim]
+ +03539149aabb
15:13:15 [hhalpin]
chair: hhalpin
15:13:33 [hhalpin]
scribe: peterf
15:13:33 [CaptSolo]
Zakim, aabb is me
15:13:33 [Zakim]
+CaptSolo; got it
15:13:37 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's here?
15:13:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant, ??P52, bblfish, petef, hhalpin, Adam, FabGandon, CaptSolo
15:13:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see CaptSolo, petef, FabGandon, DKA, cperey, Zakim, RRSAgent, melvster, pchampin, evanpro, Adam, yuk, hhalpin, mischat, bblfish, MacTed, caribou, tinkster, AlexPassant,
15:13:43 [Zakim]
... trackbot
15:13:48 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record
15:14:18 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record
15:14:18 [tinkster]
evanpro, when you call in, we're on extension 26632 instead of 7994.
15:14:22 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. October 14th
15:14:31 [hhalpin]
2. General Organization
15:14:39 [hhalpin]
TPAC, IIW
15:14:52 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Planning_for_TPAC_Open_Day
15:15:02 [hhalpin]
TPAC?
15:15:08 [hhalpin]
I imagine go a few...
15:15:16 [hhalpin]
Hoping to have an "Open Day"
15:15:27 [Zakim]
+??P67
15:15:36 [hhalpin]
but it conflicts with OAuth/OpenID Summit, which is also on Monday 2nd.
15:15:41 [petef]
hhalpin: you are scribing?
15:15:41 [hhalpin]
This is at Yahoo.
15:15:48 [melvster]
Zakim, ??P67 is me
15:15:48 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
15:15:50 [bblfish]
do you have a URL for the openid oauth summit?
15:16:04 [petef]
I'm happy if you are.
15:16:49 [hhalpin]
http://openid.eventbrite.com/
15:16:54 [hhalpin]
Petef - please scribe!
15:17:00 [petef]
OK
15:17:04 [tinkster]
petef, hhalpin likes to type up everything he says to prevent himself from being misquoted.
15:17:23 [hhalpin]
I try to type dates and stuff...
15:17:33 [petef]
dka my initial view was we should have the open day anyway
15:17:54 [evanpro]
Seems like there'd be great synergy to have them complementary events
15:18:00 [petef]
[please tell me if I am missing scribing protocol]
15:18:18 [petef]
dka but now think maybe we should cancel the openday
15:18:24 [petef]
and work with the openid thing
15:19:00 [hhalpin]
trackbot, status?
15:19:08 [hhalpin]
rrsagent, pointer?
15:19:08 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc#T15-19-08
15:19:10 [petef]
thanks guys
15:19:24 [petef]
dka: should we just forget about it?
15:19:34 [petef]
hhalpin: how about Tue at the Marriot?
15:19:43 [bblfish]
Well I can get Sun on Tuesday too
15:19:45 [cperey]
what about later in the week?
15:19:51 [petef]
hhalpin: not too many people registered
15:20:16 [petef]
dka: we could invite people to observe our working group
15:20:35 [petef]
dka: unless we could get externally parties in to present, like on the calls
15:21:02 [petef]
hhalpin: we could invite people Michelle Adamic (sp?) has a list of names we could invite
15:21:11 [cperey]
many apologies but what about having Open Day on another day?
15:21:19 [cperey]
later in week?
15:21:24 [evanpro]
two days close together please
15:21:31 [evanpro]
I would attend if both events were close together
15:21:41 [evanpro]
A week apart makes things hard for out-of-towners
15:21:49 [petef]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:21:59 [cperey]
Henry
15:22:00 [Zakim]
petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (5%), bblfish (9%)
15:22:03 [petef]
Thanks
15:22:18 [bblfish]
So the question is how many people would be able to come on Monday?
15:22:39 [petef]
henry: it's only an openid meeting, we aren't expecting any new announcements
15:22:41 [bblfish]
there are three confilcting events
15:22:43 [hhalpin]
My concern was two-fold: first, conflicting events might be misinterpreted by OpenID/OAuth folks
15:22:47 [bblfish]
there is Apache conf
15:22:50 [bblfish]
there is IIW
15:22:52 [cperey]
New proposal: what about having an Open Day when there are not conflicting events?
15:23:00 [bblfish]
there is W3C conf
15:23:05 [hhalpin]
Any ideas?
15:23:06 [cperey]
early Dec?
15:23:13 [cperey]
I mean completely separate
15:24:04 [petef]
cperey: I could take an action item to propose other dates at anoher location, not TPAC
15:24:12 [bblfish]
ok, then the problem is that a lot of people won't be out there
15:24:14 [bblfish]
anymore
15:24:22 [petef]
dka: I won't be out in the Bay area again for a while
15:24:45 [petef]
dka: part of the idea of doing it at TPAC was to leverage people's attendance
15:24:58 [petef]
dka: could we do a hybrid event with the openid folk?
15:25:06 [bblfish]
sounds good too
15:25:08 [petef]
dka: half a day on each
15:25:21 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's talking?
15:25:24 [petef]
dka: is that a middle way that would satisfy everybody?
15:25:31 [Zakim]
hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (43%), bblfish (13%)
15:26:02 [petef]
dka: if so we could start drafting a page around that and get it out to people
15:26:29 [hhalpin]
My question is can we just get these people to get to TPAC - i.e. TPAC into an "open day"
15:26:39 [hhalpin]
Assuming very few people are coming
15:26:42 [bblfish]
I think I agree with that
15:27:02 [petef]
zakim, who is talking?
15:27:12 [Zakim]
petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (9%)
15:27:12 [bblfish]
how many people can come to OpenDay?
15:27:52 [petef]
dka: concerned that we may not be able to network a largish event at short notice
15:28:05 [bblfish]
the IIW will be all week?
15:28:14 [petef]
hhalpin?: won't people also be attending IIW?
15:28:15 [bblfish]
sorry I mean they will be all week
15:28:37 [petef]
dka: we want to make sure we aren't stepping on any toes
15:28:50 [petef]
dka: seen as trying to put on a competing event
15:29:54 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swxg
15:29:58 [petef]
dka: but if we could get some CTOs and mktg consultants into TPAc that would be good
15:30:14 [petef]
zakim, who is talking?
15:30:24 [Zakim]
petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (19%), bblfish (10%), hhalpin (68%)
15:30:36 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:30:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant, ??P52, bblfish, petef, hhalpin, Adam, FabGandon, CaptSolo, melvster
15:30:38 [petef]
hhalpin: we need to move on
15:30:40 [cperey]
yep, meeting after
15:31:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.514.525.aacc
15:31:40 [petef]
zakim, who is talking?
15:31:40 [cperey]
henry you are breaking up
15:31:51 [Zakim]
petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.514.525.aacc (54%), DKA (13%), hhalpin (5%)
15:31:57 [evanpro]
petef, 514-554-3826 == me
15:32:17 [petef]
zakim, 3826 is evanpro
15:32:17 [Zakim]
sorry, petef, I do not recognize a party named '3826'
15:32:32 [petef]
zakim, aacc is evanpro
15:32:32 [Zakim]
+evanpro; got it
15:33:10 [cperey]
haha!
15:33:13 [Zakim]
+DKA.a
15:33:13 [Zakim]
-DKA
15:33:19 [tinkster]
danbri: we're not in 2994.
15:33:20 [petef]
dka: evan is on the line, let's make the most of his time
15:33:26 [DKA]
zakim, dka.a is dka
15:33:26 [Zakim]
+dka; got it
15:33:29 [petef]
evanpro: I'm enjoying listening
15:33:42 [tinkster]
we're in 26632
15:33:43 [Adam]
26632 is the new code dan
15:33:54 [petef]
dka: we'll go straight to... the invited guests
15:33:54 [hhalpin]
3. Invited Guest - Evan Prodromou from OpenMicroBlogging and Alex Passant on Semantic Microblogging
15:33:59 [Zakim]
+??P4
15:33:59 [hhalpin]
Evan?
15:34:03 [evanpro]
I'm here
15:34:21 [hhalpin]
Evan Prodromou of OpenMicroblogging will give a talk on his work on OpenMicroblogging (see the specification) and its connection to the wider Social Web ecoystem
15:34:30 [petef]
dka: hopefully evanpro can give us an interesting introduction to OMB
15:35:05 [petef]
evanpro: a conjunction of openid, oauth and swxg would be enough to get me out to CA
15:35:25 [petef]
evanpro: I am the inventor and shepherd of OMB
15:35:55 [petef]
evanpro: bg on myself - working on open source and content for 15 yrs
15:35:59 [petef]
esp wikitravel
15:36:09 [petef]
around issues of identity
15:36:19 [danbri]
http://evan.prodromou.name/
15:36:23 [petef]
briefly on JSF Council
15:36:27 [danbri]
http://identi.ca/evan
15:36:38 [petef]
with the launch of Twitter in 2007
15:36:47 [petef]
there was an expolsion of interest in OMB
15:37:02 [petef]
defined as exchange of small text message with your social network
15:37:10 [petef]
twitter, jaiku, pownce etc.
15:37:26 [petef]
contrast to blogging , tumblelogs and social bookmarking
15:37:49 [petef]
people seem to enjoy OMB and the responsiveness of it
15:38:06 [petef]
as the growth of witter got ahead of their ability to support it
15:38:26 [petef]
interest grew in the evolution of an open standard for microblogging (OMB)
15:38:43 [petef]
seeing as noone else was doing it I thought I would set up an easy hack
15:38:50 [petef]
federated
15:39:04 [petef]
started laconica in May 2008, hosting identi.ca
15:39:22 [petef]
includes features important to the future of the open social web
15:39:38 [petef]
openid, foaf, import and export of data
15:39:54 [petef]
you can take the identi.ca source and install it in silo
15:40:09 [petef]
so decided to create a protocol
15:40:19 [petef]
my design criteria were
15:40:24 [petef]
http based system
15:40:37 [petef]
tend to go for the low end on servers
15:40:52 [petef]
so that you could install a node on commodity shared hosting
15:41:03 [petef]
wanted it to work with openid and oauth
15:41:19 [petef]
and to be realtively easy to implement with existing tools and libraries
15:41:29 [petef]
flirted with openid attrib exchange
15:41:33 [danbri]
cf http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html
15:41:47 [petef]
but the mechanics don't allow pushing and pulling to other openid servers
15:41:53 [petef]
so wouldn't really work
15:42:01 [petef]
instead used oauth
15:42:26 [petef]
subscribing to somebody's notices means that you authorise another server to push to your inbox
15:42:30 [petef]
four players:
15:42:49 [petef]
publisher, subscriber, publiher-server, subscriber-server
15:43:17 [petef]
profiles within OMB are http urls
15:43:32 [petef]
subscriber provides their url to the publisher server
15:43:42 [petef]
which uses oauth discovery
15:43:49 [petef]
still very fluid
15:43:58 [danbri]
q+ to ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote subscription scenarios
15:43:59 [petef]
OMB uses XRD simple files
15:44:17 [petef]
draft since deprecated for LARDD
15:44:25 [tinkster]
s/LARDD/LRDD/
15:44:27 [petef]
will share links later
15:44:37 [petef]
use oauth discovery to find endpoints
15:44:45 [petef]
two additional endpoints are defined
15:45:06 [petef]
the user experience is to go through the typically oauth dance
15:45:21 [petef]
token exchange
15:45:34 [petef]
unlike some other pubsub mechanisms
15:45:50 [petef]
there's an expectation that I should know who subscribes to my feed
15:45:59 [petef]
closer relationship
15:46:13 [petef]
pass along profile info in oauth dance
15:46:28 [petef]
avatar, full name, location, homepage, short bio
15:46:33 [petef]
via http post params
15:46:41 [petef]
once sub complete
15:46:52 [petef]
the two additional endpoints are used
15:47:00 [petef]
push based (unlike atom or rss)
15:47:08 [petef]
no polling
15:47:18 [petef]
good responsiveness, better performance
15:47:30 [petef]
post notice endpoint
15:47:43 [petef]
used by pulisher server
15:48:07 [petef]
profile update endpoint
15:48:18 [petef]
used if publisher profile chganges
15:48:48 [petef]
any kind of client to server api is out of scope
15:49:31 [petef]
laconica (now called status net) uses a clone of the twitter api
15:49:38 [petef]
also working on an atompub version
15:50:12 [Zakim]
-hhalpin
15:50:20 [petef]
any kind of syntax def'n is also out of scope
15:50:25 [Adam]
the pub/sub explanation sounds very similar to pubsubhubhub
15:50:27 [petef]
just pushes plain text
15:50:57 [petef]
hashtags #foo and directed messages @bar are not defined in OMB
15:51:12 [petef]
0.1 protocol has been fairly successful
15:51:19 [petef]
thousands of nodes on the network
15:51:24 [petef]
important weaknesses
15:51:35 [petef]
no system for unsolicited notices
15:51:55 [petef]
if you aren't subscribed to me no way for me to message you
15:52:08 [tinkster1]
tinkster1 has joined #swxg
15:52:12 [Zakim]
+hhalpin
15:52:13 [tinkster1]
Adam, it sort of is, but there's no hub per se. Updates are pushed from publisher server to subscriber server.
15:52:26 [petef]
parsing syntax left out which means the hashtags and replies have to be guessed at
15:52:39 [petef]
threading questions across multiple servers
15:52:48 [petef]
no threading bult in
15:53:12 [petef]
no direct private messages eiother
15:53:55 [petef]
low level thing, in oauth two kinds of keys - one to identify a particular conversation and one for th sending server -
15:54:07 [petef]
OMB actually uses the root URL of the sending server
15:54:13 [petef]
hard to verify in the client
15:54:28 [petef]
I'd like to talk about where we are going with OMB 0.2
15:54:49 [petef]
four other implementations:
15:55:02 [petef]
openmicroblogger, jaiku (at 0.2), etc.
15:55:39 [petef]
for 0.2 biggest change is move away from plain text to atom entries for pushing notices
15:55:47 [petef]
richer data format
15:56:04 [DKA]
NB: In Vodafone we are already using laconi.ca for an internal microblog system and we are looking at using it as a platform for building mobile social network prototype apps.
15:56:08 [petef]
we'll also e able to leverage work around activitystreams
15:56:13 [petef]
which is also atom based
15:56:20 [danbri]
http://activitystrea.ms/
15:56:30 [danbri]
(aside: they're moving this to be equally atom and json)
15:56:31 [petef]
second important thing is we will include parsed html
15:56:44 [petef]
some security issues obviously
15:56:52 [petef]
will require sanitizing
15:57:02 [petef]
but good step for usability
15:57:09 [petef]
adding in-reply-to info
15:57:16 [petef]
will improve threading
15:57:41 [petef]
@xyz will resolve to an identity url for the recipient
15:57:47 [petef]
that will travel with the packet
15:57:57 [petef]
replacing oauth discovery with LRRD
15:58:09 [petef]
support for unsolicited messages
15:58:12 [tinkster1]
s/LRRD/LRDD/
15:58:20 [petef]
in protocol, up to clients what they do with it
15:58:35 [petef]
proposal to provision verifiable user keys
15:58:50 [petef]
[tinkster I'll get it right eventually]
15:59:07 [petef]
we want something interoperable by the end of the year
15:59:17 [petef]
relation to openid
15:59:23 [petef]
OMB identity is an URL
15:59:33 [petef]
use YADIS
15:59:40 [Zakim]
-??P52
15:59:47 [petef]
want to make sure we mesh nicely with openid
16:00:04 [petef]
two new feed based systems announced
16:00:07 [danbri]
bradfitz
16:00:09 [danbri]
fitzpatrick
16:00:09 [petef]
pubsubhubbub
16:00:16 [petef]
atom based
16:00:21 [danbri]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubSubHubbub
16:00:24 [petef]
and rsscloud
16:00:31 [rreck]
rreck has joined #SWXG
16:00:38 [petef]
embedded into rss 2.0 but never really implemented
16:00:42 [petef]
now being revived
16:01:01 [petef]
neither supports feeding back subscriber relation to publisher
16:01:35 [petef]
we are implementing both of these and trying to work with the standards to add in subscriber publisher feedback
16:02:14 [petef]
activity streams - the hard part will be the unification between AS, atom and opensocial
16:02:24 [petef]
always wanted http based system
16:02:40 [petef]
but would also like an upshift to xmpp based if both servers support it
16:02:56 [petef]
well known protocol, very nice pubsub system
16:03:04 [petef]
some work done to adapt it for OMB
16:03:22 [petef]
looking into that
16:03:27 [petef]
stubs for that in 0.2
16:03:37 [petef]
discovery process over the next few months
16:03:40 [petef]
+q
16:03:45 [hhalpin]
ack danbri
16:03:45 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote subscription scenarios
16:03:53 [danbri]
peterf first
16:04:01 [hhalpin]
ack petef
16:04:03 [AlexPassant]
q+ for synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other vocabs
16:04:12 [Zakim]
+??P7
16:04:19 [FabGandon]
FabGandon has left #swxg
16:04:26 [rreck]
zakim, ??P7 is me
16:04:26 [Zakim]
+rreck; got it
16:04:30 [Zakim]
-FabGandon
16:04:31 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
16:04:31 [Zakim]
rreck should now be muted
16:04:32 [petef]
petef: have you looked at wave-protocol in relation to OM
16:04:34 [petef]
B
16:04:43 [Zakim]
-hhalpin
16:04:59 [petef]
evanpro: v. intersting but ow it will fit into OMB is still open
16:05:06 [DKA]
q+ to ask about location...
16:05:11 [danbri]
q?
16:05:25 [danbri]
ok i fixed my audio, i'm next on queue please :)
16:05:31 [petef]
for low end target systems wave won't be available for quite a while
16:05:54 [petef]
whether it picks up as ubiquitous will be interesting
16:06:04 [petef]
my hope is that it does see some success
16:06:16 [petef]
don't think the current generation fits well with OMB
16:06:34 [tinkster1]
yes
16:06:39 [petef]
interested in wave and how it develops
16:06:51 [tinkster1]
no longer audible
16:06:51 [rreck]
you were audiable
16:06:54 [DKA]
losing part of danbri's speech
16:06:59 [danbri]
q:
16:07:03 [danbri]
have you done any usability testing
16:07:09 [danbri]
esp on remote subscribe aspects of OMB
16:07:18 [danbri]
do users understand what's going on, etc
16:07:26 [petef]
evanpro: usability testing - pretty important usability problems
16:07:36 [petef]
v. similar to usability problems for openid
16:07:41 [petef]
mechanism is very similar
16:07:50 [petef]
I need to remember my identity url
16:07:53 [danbri]
cf http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/
16:08:10 [petef]
and provide it to remote servers which use it to start a conversation on the back end
16:08:19 [petef]
we haven't done much work on that
16:08:28 [petef]
hopwe we can borrow from openid world
16:08:47 [danbri]
i'm interested to see more work figuring out how much implies protocol design changes, and how much can be done with improved web design, addons etc
16:08:48 [petef]
widgets and keeping an eye on webfinger
16:08:53 [danbri]
http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/
16:09:17 [danbri]
http://hueniverse.com/2009/09/implementing-webfinger/
16:09:22 [petef]
users associate people with email type addresses
16:09:26 [petef]
and urls with docs
16:09:27 [danbri]
thanks evanpro, ... i think webfinger pretty relevant here
16:09:43 [danbri]
http://hueniverse.com/webfinger/
16:09:50 [petef]
webfinger also nice simple way to include addresses into OMB msgs
16:09:53 [tinkster1]
http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/fingerpoint/
16:10:10 [petef]
passive subscription
16:10:26 [danbri]
"""What Problem is WebFinger Trying to Solve? ... WebFinger is trying to address the lack of adoption and usability of current HTTP-URI-based user identifier solutions, most notably OpenID. """
16:10:56 [petef]
would speed things up and improve usability
16:11:14 [bblfish]
q+
16:11:30 [DKA]
q?
16:11:33 [petef]
could also happen with a global directory, although there are concerns about recentralisation
16:11:34 [danbri]
(so maybe some role for http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/ etc ?)
16:11:35 [DKA]
ack alex
16:11:35 [Zakim]
AlexPassant, you wanted to discuss synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other vocabs
16:11:43 [petef]
zakim, who is talking?
16:11:51 [danbri]
skypish sounds
16:11:54 [Zakim]
petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (9%)
16:12:24 [petef]
alex(?): very brief overview of SMOB (audio not clear)
16:12:48 [petef]
wondering how it relates to OMB
16:13:06 [tinkster1]
Alex, StatusNet already published FOAF, RSS and SIOC data.
16:13:08 [AlexPassant]
SMOB: http://smob.sioc-project.org/
16:13:08 [petef]
evanpro: we support shark(?)
16:13:15 [petef]
s/shark/sioc/
16:13:16 [tinkster1]
s/shark/SIOC/
16:13:18 [danbri]
SIOC is pronounced like Shark, yes
16:13:27 [danbri]
(irish word)
16:13:33 [petef]
doesn't address server to server mechanism
16:13:50 [CaptSolo]
danbri: commonly pronounced as "shock"
16:13:53 [petef]
similar to smtp
16:14:18 [petef]
SMOB does a good job of keeping your published info and pushing it out
16:14:28 [petef]
but not really server to server interaction
16:14:30 [danbri]
(shark is commonly pronounced 'shock' in some countries too ;)
16:14:39 [petef]
wouldn't be a big leap to implement OMB in SMOB
16:14:46 [petef]
would be very welcome
16:14:57 [CaptSolo]
danbri: the proper irish pronounciation is similar to "shuck" and means frost (imagine social networks connecting together like snowflakes or frost on a window)
16:15:02 [petef]
OMB doesn't (yet) cover sharing the social graph
16:15:15 [petef]
you can use other mechanisms, through FOAF say,
16:15:20 [tinkster1]
http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-10-07.html#T11-56-51
16:15:27 [petef]
might be nice to promote it or provide an url
16:15:36 [petef]
as part of profile info passed through
16:15:51 [petef]
SMOB is cool, would love to see it brought together with OMB
16:15:53 [DKA]
q?
16:16:12 [danbri]
q+ to ask if there is anything in OMB that makes one-domain-name-per-user difficult
16:16:14 [petef]
alex: more than happy to work together
16:16:56 [petef]
evanpro: one of our devs took the OMB stuff out of staus net and turned it into a WP plugin and a PHP library
16:17:05 [danbri]
q?
16:17:17 [tinkster1]
you're breaking up
16:17:20 [danbri]
did we have DKA's question yet?
16:17:39 [petef]
hhalpin: how are you using FOAF?
16:17:43 [DKA]
nope
16:17:45 [DKA]
:)
16:17:48 [bblfish]
w: are you making use of foaf to do something
16:17:49 [DKA]
ack bbl
16:17:50 [tinkster1]
http://identi.ca/tobyink/foaf
16:17:58 [petef]
evanpro: we provided FOAF info and use FOAF ids in graph
16:18:19 [petef]
toby has been great in helping us implement that and the SIOC stuff better
16:18:27 [danbri]
try putting http://identi.ca/danbri into http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/exploreapi.html
16:18:36 [danbri]
google sgapi indexes identi.ca foaf
16:18:53 [petef]
Could use FOAF for profile exchange in OMB
16:18:54 [Zakim]
+hhalpin
16:19:09 [petef]
makes more sense for discovery and so usability
16:19:15 [petef]
who should I follow?
16:19:23 [petef]
who might I kalready know?
16:19:23 [danbri]
poss foaf use cases 'what kind of people should i be subscribing to, who sohuld i follow, who is there that i know, ...'
16:19:31 [danbri]
(i think also around groups, ...)
16:19:44 [petef]
groups is another great case
16:20:09 [petef]
there's going to be a close interaction between OMB and FOAF
16:20:17 [tinkster1]
SELECT ?person WHERE { ?me subscribesTo ?x , ?y . ?x subscribesTo ?person . ?y subscribesTo ?person . FILTER (?x != ?y) }
16:20:19 [danbri]
evanpro, if there are tweaks you need to foaf to support any of these use cases, ... that's not so hard to arrange!
16:20:22 [Zakim]
-Carine
16:20:26 [Zakim]
-bblfish
16:20:34 [danbri]
q?
16:20:45 [petef]
dka: we are limited on time
16:20:52 [danbri]
i've already had a question so i'll take it to email!
16:20:59 [danbri]
a-
16:21:01 [danbri]
q-
16:21:02 [petef]
dka: are you thinking about making lcation part of the platform
16:21:08 [danbri]
(my q was basically http://lists.status.net/pipermail/statusnet-dev/2009-August/002117.html again)
16:21:22 [petef]
one reason many of us use Jaiku is the sophisticated support for location
16:21:58 [petef]
evanpro: fascinating that we are reintroducing location to the web
16:22:17 [petef]
in OMB 0.1 we only have a points tring associated with a profile
16:22:30 [petef]
if I update it, that can change (but would be lost)
16:22:53 [petef]
making changes to staus net to support a richer more machine friendly location format
16:23:01 [petef]
will be out in 0.9 later this month
16:23:05 [tinkster1]
geonames IIRC?
16:23:08 [Zakim]
-hhalpin
16:23:09 [petef]
lat long and geo place name vocab
16:23:20 [petef]
where on earth, geonames, OSM
16:24:07 [petef]
we will also include location info for each notice
16:24:28 [AlexPassant]
sounds along the lines of the linkage we're doing in SMOB with geonames and DBpedia, great synergies
16:24:47 [petef]
would make sense to get it into OMB 0.2
16:25:03 [petef]
optional but important
16:25:20 [petef]
moving to atom - should be easily included in atom entries
16:25:37 [danbri]
(http://status.net/trac/report/6 seems interesting to poke around...)
16:25:55 [petef]
evanpro: would love to attend open day, thanks for having me on the call
16:26:06 [petef]
evan@identi.ca
16:26:11 [petef]
evan@status.net
16:26:18 [hhalpin]
evanpro - will stay in touch via e-mail, and thanks so much for being on call!
16:26:28 [petef]
dka: thank you
16:26:28 [danbri]
thanks evanpro!
16:26:36 [petef]
dka: we have to close the call now
16:26:41 [Zakim]
-tinkster
16:27:07 [petef]
dka: we need tocome up with a plan for the openday offline by tomorrow
16:27:14 [danbri]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:27:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), AlexPassant, petef, Adam, CaptSolo, melvster, evanpro, dka, danbri, rreck (muted)
16:27:32 [caribou]
caribou has left #swxg
16:27:34 [petef]
dka: how to mesh with SWXG workshop, openid and oauth
16:27:53 [hhalpin]
RRSAgent, create minutes
16:27:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
16:28:02 [hhalpin]
Oh, can we have an ACTION by someone
16:28:11 [hhalpin]
to summarize that call?
16:28:11 [pchampin]
bye
16:28:13 [Zakim]
-danbri
16:28:14 [Zakim]
-CaptSolo
16:28:14 [Zakim]
-cperey
16:28:15 [AlexPassant]
thanks, bye
16:28:15 [Zakim]
-petef
16:28:15 [Zakim]
-Adam
16:28:16 [Zakim]
-pchampin
16:28:17 [Zakim]
-evanpro
16:28:18 [petef]
petef has left #swxg
16:28:19 [Zakim]
-AlexPassant
16:28:21 [tinkster]
I can summarise
16:28:21 [Zakim]
-MacTed
16:28:24 [Zakim]
-dka
16:28:29 [DKA]
good point harry -
16:28:30 [hhalpin]
thanks tinkster!
16:28:31 [rreck]
way to go tinkster
16:28:32 [DKA]
:)
16:28:37 [DKA]
ACTION: Dan to summarize to call.
16:28:37 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Dan
16:28:37 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dappelqu, danbri)
16:28:48 [hhalpin]
ACTION: tinkster to summarize Evan's talk
16:28:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-96 - Summarize Evan's talk [on Toby Inkster - due 2009-10-14].
16:28:50 [DKA]
ACTION: dappelqu to summarize to call.
16:28:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-97 - Summarize to call. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-10-14].
16:29:01 [DKA]
:)
16:29:02 [hhalpin]
Dan - do you really want to do it, or tinkster?
16:29:11 [Zakim]
-rreck
16:29:12 [DKA]
If tinkster can do it that would be great.
16:29:20 [hhalpin]
OK, will delete that from the minutes then...
16:29:21 [tinkster]
I'm happy to.
16:29:21 [DKA]
thanks toby!
16:29:33 [hhalpin]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:29:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
16:31:10 [bblfish]
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pchampin has left #swxg
16:34:13 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, melvster, in Team_(swxg)15:03Z
16:34:16 [Zakim]
Team_(swxg)15:03Z has ended
16:34:17 [Zakim]
Attendees were Carine, DKA, pchampin, cperey, MacTed, tinkster, AlexPassant, bblfish, petef, +44.131.208.aaaa, Adam, hhalpin, FabGandon, +03539149aabb, CaptSolo, melvster,
16:34:19 [Zakim]
... +1.514.525.aacc, evanpro, danbri, rreck
17:19:01 [CaptSolo]
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18:34:44 [Zakim]
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