Workshop on improving access to financial data on the web

Mr. McCarthy?

Were you typing?

I heard background noise on zakim

Suggest zakim callers self-mute today if possible

Thanks

Diane: Welcomes everyone
... thanks FDIC for wonderful hosting and speakers
... Today's focus is more technical
... including focus on Semantic Web
... talk about developing ontologies
... nurturing the financial ecosystem
... how to we resource all those pieces, bring together individual silos
... We saw some great applications yesterday, such as Singapore
... many different views of the data
... how do we make this more of a connected ecosystem?
... How do we get a common identity identifier, tagged with metadata
... lacking common links
... A lot on our plate today
... Yesterday was about "What is"
... and some of "What's missing"
... Today look a the ecosystem
... Let's talk about the break-out systems
... We're looking to have four focus topics
... At lunch we'll talk about them
... I have teased out four
... Some people have asked us about a diagram of this ecosystem, to map this out
... The identification
... One of key things is next steps
... how do we promote the collaboration
... with XBRL, W3C, NIEM, etc.
... how do we keep this conversation alive and continue the collaboration
... Its' a public and open forum
... Everything will be published in the report findings
... We have been asked
... When you step up to ask a question
... Please state name and affiliate slowly before you speak
... And please sign release
... This is being video taped
... Dave, do you want to put up your slides
... Dave is a W3C Fellow on the financial data on the Web
... and my co-chair for this Workshop

Speaker: Dave Raggett
... Introduction to Semantic Web

slide 2

http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/talks/intro2semweb-dsr.pdf

scribe: Semantic Web is about giving computers better understanding
... a Web of meaning
... Think about booking some travel
... to do actions you have to go to many Web sites
... but they don't mean all your needs, and may be biased in terms of marketing
... If you want to combine the information, you have to put a lot of effort into collecting information
... that's a waste of our effort
... We should let the machines do the work
... and that's what the Semantic Web is about

slide 3

It is, essentially, the Web of Data and the technologies to realize that

slide 4

Here are some of the languages

scribe: RDF, OWL, Rules, GRDDL, SPARQL, SKOS
... POWDER, RDFa
... the devil is in the details
... Main point is about Linked Data
... and the power of URLs
... key insight is relationship of these triples
... thanks to the uniform representation
... Let's look at an example
... a book store
... slides adapted from Ivan Herman
... Here is a relational database table talking about books
... So you can take that data and map into some relations
... The arrows combine relationsihp
... Like the ISBN number
... Ovals take an idea of one to many or many to many
... you have to create those
... Next data source is a spreadsheet
... from France
... They using their own terminology for the same book
... translation for the same book
... the terminology is different
... So we abstract into binary relations
... then you merge the data sets
... We note that the URIs are the same, so we merge the nodes
... If it's the same URI, it's the same resource
... Now maybe we add something additional
... Computer doesn't speak French
... so you have to tell it that auteur and author are the same thing, and it's a person
... So here is the graph on bottom right
... and now additional information about the author Gosh
... You can now ask for information from different sources related to this author
... We started with different data sets
... You map into some abstraction based on URIs
... then you can manipulate
... So the key thing is that by using the URIs, you can combine data sets from different organizations and countries
... and use the power of the Web
... So the essence of making good things happen is to have the data sources
... and use standard protocols and query mechanisms
... combine name spaces
... also data sets
... Do remote queries or do local queries
... Also use URIs for APIs
... We want to encourage people to innovate
... More data, more applications
... Here is a diagram
... Linked Open Data Cloud
... People who are making their public data available
... People who have contributd their data

Question: What do the arrows mean

scribe: References between the data sources
... where they build connections to the different data sets
... and a year later, more people are exposing their data
... So now we need to do the same with data sources, to add value
... SEC by making its data available, is opening up new possibilities
... and as others do we will have more information

Question from Walter Hamscher

scribe: The US Census data points to Geonames
... Does that mean US Census points to this third party site

Dave: I can get back to you later

so, say, there is an entry on amsterdam in dbpedia and there is an entry in geonames, and then there are links that 'join' these two in the datasets

Dave: OWL ontologies allows for richer semantics
... There will be a talk about translating XBRL taxonomies into OWL
... OWL has many possibilities, but comes at a cost
... if you have lots of rich meaning, it can slow things down
... So there are many OWL profiles
... OWL DL is used by many
... OWL2 looks at relationship between SemWeb tech and relational database technologies
... Rule Interchange Format
... Rule languages are sometimes more convenient to express
... Many kinds of rule languages
... You can use RIF between similar families
... Relationship between XBRL and the SEmantic Web
... If you have XBRL, why bother to translate into another format?
... Because XBRL uses XLink heavily
... it becomes expensive to process
... can convert into other models
... Rather than process XBRL directly
... preprocess into format that supports query
... No standard query languages for those models
... So perhaps SemWeb query languages can help
... SemWeb are mature standards
... Complex queries, large data sets
... SemWeb makes it easier to combine large, diverse data sets
... Can allow people to start talking about what combinations of data are possible
... Thought I would show a few examples
... This is part of US GAAP taxonomy
... converted into RDF taxonomy using Turtle
... Two reporting concepts
... and a parent/child relationship
... An example of an XBRL instance file
... an identifier, start and end date, currency measure
... XBRL taxonomies loosely equate to OWL ontologies
... But are some details
... Yes, I'll use US GAAP, but may take away some relationsihps
... automated mapping is possible
... We will have a talk later
... SemWeb can provide richer meaning
... Diane has been speaking about an ecosystem
... Some possible ideas here
... Publishers of raw data, investor relations sites, new sources
... data aggregators like Thomson Reuters
... Possibility of doing this with SemWeb by making triples directly queriable
... Some particular reporting concept, and ask quickly
... High-level APIs
... Upload smart queries into the network
... Idea being means to upload scripts to capture some of that
... Scripts could do things like custom analytics
... Smart search engines
... Googles allows you to search
... query across thousands of machines
... Why can't we do same for financial information
... But get search engine to do more useful work
... Search engines are getting smarter, but specify the intent of the search
... and it may be based on your own preferences
... Which brings up the topic of privacy
... If you have this linked information, you do need to look at this
... I am involved in a EU project on privacy
... Thank you

Question: Walter Hamscher, US SEC

scribe: There are several different layers of lanugage you described
... in XBRL there is not inheritence layer
... Do you have to translate to an ontology to get inheritence?
... Some are propoerties
... all liabilities have those propoerties
... there are different levels of OWL

<LeeF> Walter: What technology layer do I need to get inheritance?

Dave: OWL DL would be a good choice for inheritence
... the computable one
... OWL Full can capture Semantics

Lee Feigenbaum

scribe: There is a layer in between

<LeeF> RDF Schema is effectively a layer in between RDF and OWL and will handle inheritance

Eric Cohen, XBRL Global Ledger WG

scribe: You spoke about expressing XBRL with OWL
... are you talking about taxonomies or instances with OWL
... is that the movement of point A to point C

Dave: First point was what you apply OWL for
... in this case mapping taxonomies into OWL
... We will hear a talk later
... Taking XML schema into OWL
... The example I showed
... mapped linked bases into RDF
... I was not making interpretations, just mapping taxonomy directly
... If you want ot add rich semantics, that's an addition

Eric: Follow up questions
... talking about triples
... Where would those relations
... and encourage innovation
... Where would those relations be stored?
... So someone could see doc name, date and relationship?
... Is there a central repository where people can see and reuse this?

Dave: That is a good question
... gets back to issue of provinance
... show me the source of the data
... you can imagine that SEC could provide direct access to RDF
... and provide data in some form, and let others provide translations to APIs
... that's question of what the ecosystem should look like, who are the players

Eric: Last point
... XBRL wasn't developed just for e-reporting
... it is ecosystem of busienss reporting, transactions, business events
... so may different types of reports
... I have seen a few papers in this area
... Does it makes sense to turn 500 transactions into RDF or OWL
... XBRL GL is at that detailed level
... a seamless audit trail in the business reporting supply chain
... My question is where it makes sense for XBRL and OWL
... Like RIF for some business rules
... What is the complementary solution
... versus end reporting and full reconcilliation

Dave: You can have data in many different representations
... and then having common abstractions in RDF and OWL
... but there are other data sets you will want to combine
... XBRL and SemWeb are not in competition

Question from ? FDIC

scribe: Query language itself; how you publishe data
... Query language, in your view, is that going through a
... HTTP protocol
... is that browser or server level?

Dave: The underlying abstraction is in terms of triples
... which represent vocabulaires
... Query mechanisms, like SPARQL
... you can get triples
... or you can get results rendered back in another form
... Optimizations is like database queries
... You really want to make queries the responsibilities of the engine

Question: Is it about browser, and then SQL?

Dave: Some of implementations of SemWeb are built on top of relational data bases

Diane: We are running short on time
... Some clarifications needed
... Glad that Dave set the stage for further discussions
... Thanks for intro to SemWeb
... Intrucing Brand Niemann, EPA

Speaker: Brand Niemann

Diane: We have other information and tutorials to share on different topics

Brand: Thank you Diane and Dave for invitation to have an open discussion
... I'd like to pick up on Dave's presentation
... Concept of operations for Obama Administration initiative called Data.gov
... 100 data sets
... that various US agencies have submitted
... to make gov't agency more transparent and usable
... Federal CIO has asked for version 2.0
... Those of us in SemWeb community have lobbied for SemWeb in version 2
... "Success" draft document
... states that Semantic Web will enable Data.gov
... first, do outreach for people to do this, to put data into SemWeb format
... For those of you to whom this is new, who does that RDF and OWL enablement of the data
... Seems like a fair amount of you have those questions
... I won't attempt to answer, but will provide broader context
... I would like your initial reaction to this
... There are several meetings coming up to present these reactions
... That meeting will take place toward end of OCtober
... in context of senior data.gov and federal CIOs
... Want to see financial data handled in that as well
... You have heard about Open Linked Data
... My role in EPA and in W3C eGov IG is to explain to senior level people in administration
... Key concepts of RDF and OWL for senior managee

s/managers

scribe: Works for structured, semi-structured and un-structured information
... Metadata and data travel together
... Last week we had enterprise architecture training
... You are all about explaining and constructing architecture
... for you organization
... and explain the business case for it, the rationale
... those metrics important to senior people
... interface between technical and CEO
... information exchange and interface in organizations
... Last week we did enterprise architecture in the agencies
... We came to step four
... All agencies will need to do this to justify their investments in technology
... and submit to Office of Management and Budget
... So a step four and principle five
... I said this is where the Semantic Web fits in
... It's what I put forward to EPA and OMB
... three categories
... How you mark-up data; business problem; and what result to present
... Many silos
... we create over and over again
... Put the mark-up in the data
... and we will get more powerful applicatoins
... Last three are SemWeb standards
... Most agencies are using XML
... But XML is not powerful enough and not designed for dynamic run-time applicatoins
... that OWL and RIF were designed to do
... We want to leave data where it is
... and create a data Web
... May use this to explain to senior managers why you want to do this
... Before we go into discussion
... A brief history of how we got here
... OVer last five years, many communities of practice have been meeting
... Like SOA
... Yesterday we discussed a lot of similar issues
... We have talked about how to bring XBRL and NIEM together
... Yet another mark-up language (YAML)
... people keep inventing languages with XML
... Obviously there is a need to bridge across this, the Semantic Web
... We are working on this for April conference
... Benefit of intelligence sharing environment
... I asked Jeremy Warren
... is that still the goal and he said yes, we are using ontologies
... We had an ontology workshop at National Science Foundatoin
... We had a good diversity of groups
... Imagine a graph with semantic expressiveness and benefit
... Doesn't make sense to build an ontology
... a useful paradigm to bring diverse groups together around this issue
... At Semantic Technologies Conference, Dave and Diane showed XBRL and RDF
... Lee Feigenbaum involved in pilots
... And we have SemWeb meet-ups to build community with people around Open Linked Data
... We have a long history of bringing together groups using XML mark-up
... and collaborate on use of SemWeb technologies
... Here are links to more information
... I'll stop here
... Happy to answer questions

Diane: I'll ask first question

Diane Mueller, JustSystems and XBRL Consortium

scribe: Yesterday the issue of identity identification was a hot topic
... We need to look at resolving the data sets
... Has that issue come up in your conversations

Brand: Yes, that question has come up many time
... One pilot project done by Arun ?
... He was looking at global acquisition
... He built a dynamic ontology that bridged human resource and financial data
... Another pilot was done with data reference
... We looked at statistical abstract
... Has existed for 100 years
... 1500 databases
... What data.gov implemented in version one
... is to use that taxonomy
... What I further recommended is that we build an ontology
... What we have is four levels of information
... that represents considerable expertise
... 40 topics, subtopics,
... we have standardized d
... Library of Congress has made progress in this area
... Data modeler who started in classic way
... discovered and embraced the SemWeb as a better way to do data modeling

<Otto2> (Arun is possibly Arun Majumdar, who was at the aforementioned NSF conference - see http://nsfaccountingontology.wik.is/Participants/Arun_Majumdar)

Diane: What we discussed is trying to get someone to own that problem
... so the standards get rolled out in an international way
... identify entities in our data sets
... Lots of great ideas, but no one stepping up to own the problem
... If we can ask the Obama Admin CTO to take ownership of that in the US

Brand: I think that Tim Berners-Lee and Jim Hendler probably made that argument when they met with Vivek Kundra
... There is also a ground swell to put data standards, data models into a ? form
... this is a community effort
... I couldn't agree more that there needs to be a focal point for funding

Question, Ben Hu, DAMA: Some comments

scribe: this conference is very useful
... >I am looking for something to come together

<Otto2> (DAMA China)

scribe: not sure we are getting there
... Ontology, level of abstraction
... but we still come back to square one
... So many ontologies popping up
... How do you see another ten years
... if we use ontologies
... will people fine out more easily, or is some order needed?
... Right balance between standards efforts and innovation
... Where is this line?

Brand: It's a fuzzy line; we see examples of both
... the Ontolog forum
... society of new applications
... Lots of flowers blooming, moving foward
... The new emphasis on transparency and openness in this admin has opened the door for SemWeb work
... Next six months with SOA will be critical
... If people in agencies step forward and contribute data in RDF and OWL, we will see progress
... if not, we will miss an opportunity
... This has been around ten years
... There is much enthusiasm in Linked Open Data
... SemWeb meet-ups are enthusiastic

Ben: You mentioned enterprise architecture
... Is there an architecture that is ammendable
... so many different standards already out there
... Can we have a richer architecture picture to pull things together

Brand: How else do we do federation across the Web? What other activity is there?

Ben: Starting from vocabulary
... you cannot just invent new vocabulary every day
... vetting out the process

Dave: We are running short on time
... Shared vocabularies is part of the opporutnity for the collaborative process

JH Snider, iSolon: Address the identity question

scribe: OMB looking to take ownership
... take examples there
... they are raising this at high levels
... to realise potential of SemWeb

Brand: Communty wants to retain ownership
... I went to a vocabulary camp recently
... ontology developed and owned by the community
... I don't hear much discussion of who owns it, it's just there and open and available
... and get on with the applications work

Diane: Thank you for your talk and discussion
... I would like to bring up Herm Fischer

Herm Fischer, UBMatrix

http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/talks/Herm-Fischer.pdf

One of things I need to think about is whom am I representing

scribe: the preparer of the data, the authority, the aggregator
... or the person trying to access this, the consumer
... an institution or an individual
... My theme is multiple entities
... Do we report in one instance document, or separate instances that share
... The examples I will use XSLT
... and where we succeeded in doing a Web Service
... What does multiple entity rendering mean
... multiple browers in tab
... or in same row
... equivalent thing in same party
... do we grab data from source in its original
... and prepare in advance
... Or grab on the fly
... lots of isues
... Does it come in as XBRl
... or did it come in in a Web form, gleaned from PDF or HTML, or Word doc?
... stuff is auto-extracted and semantics inferred
... perhaps post-modern world the stuff is provided in a schema
... allows me to do semantic type stuff, or do I infer a structure?
... To me that's in the future
... So we'll stick with XBRL centric world
... and how that leads to a database centric future
... So what I need to know
... as I take this multiple entity data and combine it together
... Need to know how it lines up
... or maybe different tages

s/tags

scribe: To me, the model of the data, the concepts in there
... If I've got different entities
... France has only one chart of accounts
... only one set of concepts
... Prudential reporting in Europe
... each country extends them, and bank extensions
... SEC submitter
... can extend own concepts
... Need to align them up
... EDInet is like US GAAP prior to 2008
... where taxonomy is taken with its linked bases
... rather than cut and paste the schedule
... So everybody has a different way of doing it
... And rendering different data from different periods
... small or big tweaks, the linked bases have changed
... We now have a versioning spec coming through evolutions
... We have XBRL Formula that can merge things together
... The linkbase shows the semantics
... I think these linkbases are very important
... how you align them makes them challenging
... One of technologies we have is iXBRL
... it is a way to keep in sync the rendering in an instance doc and not lose the synchronization that represents the rendered data
... Here is an example of what that technology does
... It's simple enough
... so a fairly elaborate XSLT can suck out data
... Rendering with table cell might have a number, but it's recoverable back
... green stuff shows numeric items
... XBRL wants to see things in an ISO notation
... in Belgium, commas and dot formats vary
... so there is a no display dif
... It was difficult to come to agreement, but it's something simple
... It's a rendering way
... for multiple entity?
... Single way
... If I have a multi-entity instance document
... and there is more than one instance, this si a solutions
... But different instance docs from differetn companies, getting more complex
... SOmething tracked along, a rendering link base
... meant to be
... not sure if will continue
... an entity part of taxonomy set
... How to format dimensions
... Goes along with one DTS
... If I merge a bunch of DTS for different years and companies, that's different
... Dave mentioned if you cannot do with XSLT, XML people don't think it's real
... XSLT is XML
... Here's one I did
... Provide a multi-entity submission all in one instance document
... Each submission, SEC style
... Make sure this XSLT is agnostic of dimension names
... so it was hard
... Idea to come up with dynamic composition
... use the entity model expressed in dimension axes
... presentation base
... shared accounts, formally called line itmes
... and take random instances and render them
... Idea to use XSLT and take tables with these dimensions
... Both came from walking from XSLT
... to carve up the rows
... Multiple entities, different funds; more challenging to write
... So it's achieveable
... A model extraction pass
... and a rendering pass
... for headers
... with functions for XBRL processors
... Here is a Web service that combines separate filings
... every year different taxonomy
... reduced to a number of filings
... clicks from filings, periods
... which part of schedule
... maps into column headers and rows
... So when multiple entities are selected
... they can put rows in columsn
... Merge logically, not by filing date, another challenge
... Each period is a separate submission
... So what has to be done is a tree merge; it's complex
... A lot of sparse rows and columns
... To me this tree merge is a complex, challenging area
... So a lesson learned
... There is a big footprint
... Dealing with XBRL processors
... 50-150 megabytes
... Do a Web search of ten entities over 3 years
... that's nearly a gig footprint
... try that on your Tomcat server and there is smoked coming out
... I fixed this with a caching strategy
... a band-aid approach
... Not the right thing
... Grab things into Excel
... We have other technologies for separate instance documents
... The versioning spec is helpfu
... Versioning spec has been split into six profiles
... base ones do name space and mapping
... So what I'm thinking, like what Walter said yesterday
... We need a different way
... We have a versioning spec for different models
... and map into something neutral
... Sounds like Cobb relational databases
... and algebra
... I think this is the right conclusion
... the meaning of XBRL will change
... We're not using floppy discs, Web is ubiquitous
... XBRL has to move into a newer meida

s/media

scribe: My footprint on gigabyte
... Name points were multi-entity
... Means that challenging entities are emerging
... Line item semantics, dimensional semantics, period version issues
... In Japan that was an issue
... There is the rendering tooling issues
... Do I have Excel logic, Web features
... Main thing is that our media needs to evolve
... I have been working with XBRL for a number of years
... So we need to move beyond that "USB stick"

Diane: Thank you Herm
... Time for questions and coffee

Question: Walter Hamscher, SEC

scribe: You covered a lot of ground, all very interesting
... Go back to two points
... about the multi-entity work
... and reconcile two points
... Merge trees in different instances
... notion of calculation tree
... deep graph structures
... you also said you need to put them into relational data bases so they can compute
... Are you looking at finite set?
... Those are two different computing paradigms?
... Is there a magic reconcilliation

Herm: The tree version in Japan example
... It was reasonably static
... the concepts used were so different
... they put in a special label for what to line up; took human preparation
... I don't have a good example for that
... Here we are using US GAAP, so there should be good alignments in the three
... I think those are implementation issues to be dealt with
... I built these trees offline
... when rendering very fast
... under three or four seconds
... but if there are 50K items, this needs to be revisted
... Big name engines do have associative logic
... not just reverse tables but graph structures

Question: Brand Niemann: The most impressive SemWeb application is done with SPIN

scribe: SPARQL inferencing representation
... What they did was refactor artifacts into OWL
... used SPIN to get to a new ontology
... semantically harmonized artifact across the others
... you may want to do that with XBRL
... try them in this modeling environment
... to get this higher form of Sematnic interoperability

Daniel Bennet, eCitizen Foundation: Have you looked at adding name spaces within the document?

scribe: What would appear first?
... Did you look at overlaying IDs?
... Citations or links into the document
... A certain portion of presentation in the doc
... Look at IDs and use URL# tag to get to a certain point

Herm: These were single purposed solutions
... XSLT used functions of XSL processor to extract model of taxonomy of the line items and dimensions
... Also built
... modeling or view
... form fact items, built a structure easy to process using keys and funcitons
... using XSLT too
... a neutral form
... a custom extraction easy to write rendering base
... I don't think it's scalable
... an example about doing single purpose things with taxonomy driven data
... Japan example with binary caching is nicely deployable
... but not scalable to European reporting
... There I would want to link the whole thing and go to relational
... Or maybe OMG idea
... some kind of joining process that can be mapped
... that tag to same thing

Daniel Helps to have a URI to delink into it

scribe: Just wondering if you used IDs in that XSLT experiment to allow citation to the middle

Herm: Just for a quick and dirty demo to use XBRL, not to express right way to go forward

Diane: We could talk about that for a long time
... Thank you Herm

<BenjaminGrosof> I'm back on. Please let me know if you'd like to test the phone setup for my presentation, e.g., during this break.

<BenjaminGrosof> Waves to Karen, Dave, and Diane.

Hi Ben

Glad you are back on irc

You will be calling in soon I think

We did a test this morning and seems to be good

Let me go check with audio rightnow

Yes, give me one second

I will speak to you and ask you to responds

Diane: Welcome Ashu Bhatnagar our next speaker

Speaker: Ashu Bhatnager: XBRL Taxonomy Extension Comparability Issues and Potential Web Solutions
... I bring my experience from a Wall Street project
... People there are waiting to see applications for XBRL data
... and make more analytical tools
... Before I begin
... Like to know if you know the term [?]
... on the sales floor
... where brokers are trading stocks
... people looking to find that profit
... that requires all the data delivered to them
... be in as much dtail as possible
... wide a level of filings as possible
... institutional investors account for 75 percent of transactions
... Requiring data from 3-4000 companies

s/[]/Alpha

scribe: So when market opens
... trading strategies before day begins
... time is of essence
... five to 15 minutes is it
... cannot humanly analyze the data
... Long tail to the data
... Let me begin
... Talk about taxonomy and how it fits into XBRL taxonomy and SemWeb space
... talk about extensions as seen by filers, tech vendors, regulators
... and some personal experiences
... Institutional investor in Australia
... And look at some potential solutions
... So here is an XBRL Architecture
... bringing this up for the SemWeb colleagues
... they are familiar with a layered diagram
... This is aclose as you can get
... Instance doc in yellow
... middle is taxonomy schema
... not get into the arrows and exports and their directions
... Taxonomy extensions at the bottom
... What is the Wall Street view of the data?
... They think data is a commodity
... But organiztion of the data will be very valuable
... Increasingly so
... They will not be willing to share it
... Precendent in how to search and organize data
... Lots of people will be interested in this
... High speed trading operates in miliseconds
... Common financial metrics
... then analysts
... They need specific taxonomies

<BenjaminGrosof> My updated position paper, and talk slides, are now posted on my personal web page http://www.mit.edu/~bgrosof/

scribe: those financial metrics are used for metrics, benchmarking, etc.
... Role of investors
... this is where SemWeb comes in
... In world of financial systems, necessary for folksonomy
... Most recent filings with XBRL
... lot of time extensions being done
... because the legal department requires exact commas and names be used
... So label needs to be modified
... Large part of extensions are at the label level
... So may need to give both
... XBRL standard will not change
... If you also look at comparability
... It's not at data or information level, it's at the analysis level
... Moves through data supply chain
... at decision-making level
... Screen it and find comparables
... This is from taxonomy guide
... Not every company will find mapping tags relevant for their industry and needs
... Two types
... Entity Specific Extensions
... Receiving Files Extensions
... certain forms
... Like Basel II
... The folksonomy will soon be at bottom of this pyramid
... the users will create new extensions
... XBRL Cloud
... tool for top 100 filings of XBRL
... It analyzes filings
... and what kind of extensions
... A good source to look at
... Find what kind of extensions are being done by different companies
... a lot coming in from legal disclosure
... Information supply chain
... The moment you start analyzing...
... Somebody has to normalize the data
... Why put into SQL structure?
... Most of tools are built on SQL
... Take XBRL data and rise to normal SQL database
... Based on SPARQL, could be analyzed at file level
... One of key challenges
... is hardly any time data is useful to Wall Street
... unless it's used, merged with non-XBRL data
... compare the price, volume, index
... Needs to be a lot of data
... Somebody else has to create XBRL data for indexes, for example
... That kind of information Thomson Reuters, FactSet, Bloombery
... that's where the big market is
... Where comtability issues are for filers
... Filers want to take off filings for extensions
... Interested in deadlines, and error free filing
... Do an extension for legal risk
... For regulators, picture is like Wall Street analyst

thx

scribe: Ideally extensions should be given to an XBRL jurisdiction
... and they do the extensions
... time intensive
... If SemWeb tech or Google could automate, that would be good
... For technology vendors
... Before XBRL it was a world of HTML and PDF pages
... Thomson Reuters takes this data and puts into a useful form
... XBRL is like a zipped file
... Still need to open and extract
... Then there is a culture thing
... Wall Street folks are very siloed
... Finance and accounting experts, but don't now anything about technology
... What are differences and nuances for dealing with that
... Q3 2008 may not be an apples and oranges comparison
... What does business need from the tech, and what can tech do for business
... Comparative issues
... How they are remapping
... I have not seen major data aggregators on board with XBRL in a significant way
... It's more a matter of when
... not if
... When they do extract, then adding taxonomy will be good

invite rrsagent

scribe: Show you a hedge fund experience from Australia
... They are not yet using XBRL; no XBRL tools to consume hedge fund data
... Basic for semantics
... built with RDF
... Grid which is 2006 companies on Bombay stock exchange
... Any data cell can be clicked to open property boxes
... here are my tags and labels
... each of tags is actionable
... Finally, last point
... about the trust issue
... Where does that fit
... Trust issue about who is doing what
... Authored and edited by selected experts; by experts and non-experts; "buyers beware"
... Semantic Web architecture on left compared to XBRL architecture
... It neatly overlaps into a vertical segment
... Issues with proof and trust are well addressed in Semantic Web [stack]
... I am looking for a man-machine-man system
... Front end is humans
... then machine mash-ups
... Thank you

Diane: Thank you Ashu
... What you just described is part of the under pinnings of the financial echo systems
... about Trust
... and brings up other issues
... Look forward to further conversations
... Introduce Mike Cataldo, Cambridge Semantics

Walter Hamscher: It was a hot August day

scribe: I was sitting and thinking about Excel spreadsheets
... what I was just thinking about
... And Karen Myers from W3C sent me an email
... introducing me to a new W3C member, Cambridge Semantics
... located not far from me
... So I sent them some data
... I sent URL to Diane and Dave
... a couple data sets
... that even within SEC, SemWeb is a good way to combine data

Speaker: Mike Cataldo, CEO Cambridge Semantics
... Reason why I asked Walter up here, he won't ask me any questions! [laughs]
... Start off with an overview of how we look at the world of Semantics
... then go into the example we looked at with Walter, SEC
... We think semantics is a whole new paradigm
... We think semantic Web is Semantic Enterprise
... What I see as a CEO is the cost to buy or build information systems
... what you wish for
... Relationship, more you spend to what you wish for
... May not get custom because it's too expensive
... But game-changing technology is something you can access
... Like PCs
... then the Web
... We think semantics is in the same space
... allows us to offer advantages to those who come first
... revenue increase, cost containment, risk mitigation
... We met with a large financial institution president
... And he said, 'I asked our crew about our exposure with Lehman Bros. and they didn't know'
... Yesterday's game changing tech is today's mainstream tech
... So what's my exposure to whatever?
... Pre PCs, took a long time to answer
... now look at traditional data structures
... Semantic technologies allows everybody to play very quickly
... users only need to describe it
... then you can get it
... allows integration to happen at the desktop
... real time insight into the data; we'll show some examples
... reduced time and more play
... XBRL meets Semantic Web standards
... So what do I mean by that?
... Compliance? No
... Lee thougth it might be Internet dating? No [laughs]
... XBRL takes what was unstructured and adds structured data
... Semantic standards add meaning to that data
... Now it becomes very consumable, usable, and agile
... Bring Walter back in
... This is your slide
... This is an XBRL schem

s/schema

Walter: We have 437 live filings
... mostly 10Qs and 10Ks
... with that complexity with trees
... it boils down into
... 9 tables
... this database on SEC Web site
... has this structure
... So what I said yesterday was take a slice of it, not boil ocean
... They are looking at facts
... public float value
... small sub-source of data
... I encourage you to play around with that data
... The meaning is obvious; it's a Microsoft Access diagram

Mike: Yes, the meaning idea is obvious to the technies, but not non-techies
... So this is structure, but need to add meaning
... Add tools so that non-techies can use that information
... and combine data with other data
... with live use
... and share data with someone else
... drill back to see source
... So here is a scenario
... Identify cases of naked short selling
... by semantically linking with faile-to-deliver reports
... So here is the source data from Walter, SEC
... We dropped it into an Excel spreadsheet
... Plug-in called Anzo for Excel
... allows spreadsheet data to be linked to SemWeb
... what happens here
... Ontology is created from the spreadsheet data
... We don't want to create one giant ontology in advance
... create one focused one to connect to others later
... What's in this box
... is a fails-to-deliver ontology
... Idea is to do simple things like link contents of spreadsheet to concepts in the ontology
... See highlighted her
... is the fails data
... This data matches this concept
... and has in common this with other data
... the concepts match
... part of semantic fabric and available
... Another product we use is Anzo on the Web
... Here is how it works
... You have the ontology exposed
... Go through and choose the data
... Pull data into a view
... can sort it
... reformat it
... and filter or drill down; term is faceted browsing; we're adding a facet
... Narrow down by industry
... filters show on left side
... Petroleum drilling list
... from same source data
... and look at that any way we want
... Look at if it fails to deliver as percent of market cap
... Pull that in, create a scatter plug view
... Something is wrong
... So question is, what happened
... Go back to source data
... This process takes about one hour
... now we go back and look at source of bad data
... Value of these certain companies
... expressed in billions, and it's a percentage
... Go back and look at graphed data which tells a story
... Shows a high increase of fails-to-deliver in a time frame
... which coincides with the mortgage crisis
... So merging XBRL with Semantic standards
... we can combine data from various sources
... learn more from it, combine it, share it
... We have five minutes left
... A couple more view
... Then move onto Recovery.gov stuff
... Same data arranged by company
... narrow down to banks
... XBRL Meets Semantic Standards; Love at First Site? Great Match
... So Recovery.gov
... If we want to answer the question: Is there a correlation between...
... Recovery.gov has spread sheet format about how dollars were spent
... and Census.gov has spreadsheet
... So now three different sources in a spreadsheet
... So we answer the question of job creation by state graphically on map
... shown by state
... or create other views of same data
... Process is pretty state forward
... Link source data to semantic fabric
... create ontology, go through process
... pull data into visualization tools
... In this case, multiple data sets
... add filters
... narrow down
... pretty straight forward
... When you can combine structure with meaning
... and apply semantic standards, it brings our ability to understand data to a whole new level

Eric Cohen, XBRL GL

scribe: Mike, you said something different from what I say
... You took a jump I did not catch
... XML is about structure and Semantic adds meaning
... XBRL describes and brings a meaning
... how to structure things
... using linked bases, this is where you can get meaning
... and how to relate in different way
... what I didn't see Semantic Web in there
... Saw tools with bells and whistles
... seeing XBRL tools
... data from Walter
... but I didn't see the rich metadata and taxonomies in XBRL
... I missed where OWL, RDF, added to XBRL
... and addd the meaning which you say is structure

Mike: As far as not seeing OWl
... our approch is to keep that away from the user
... We want a non-technical user to sit underneath the covers

Eric: Can we peel off and see the inside? I have seen demos without semWeb
... make sure I can see it

Mke: Lee can give you a much better level of meaning

LeeFeigenbaum: I think it's a good question but hard to do justice to it
... I am not an XBRL expert
... XBRL has done a lot of work to overcome lack of meaning in XML
... You have added lots of levels of indirections
... to capture properties in XBRL
... When I look at that from outside, it's something specific to XBRL world
... by using W3C semweb standards, I have a flexible set of tools
... to link in other data
... fails data
... doesn't have consistent filing with companies
... This exmaple is a tool box to let end users do things on the fly
... One set of data uses CIK, others use CUSIp
... We are linking on company name
... that's a partial answer to your very big question

Ben Hu, DAMA

scribe: For enterprises
... you mentioned don't worry about knowledge base or domain, come later
... Do you find semantic is incompatable
... it's quick thing and get it donw

s/done

scribe: How do you manage that?
... It's not always semantically re-engineerable
... It's not easy

Mike: No, we have not run into that
... some different schools of thought
... We want to provide tools for enterprises to derive quickly
... Choice to implement quickly and bring together later
... or define everything up front
... so our architecture brings together smaller ontologies first

Diane: I love the boil the ocean analogy
... appreciate the demo today

<BenjaminGrosof> wrt Eric Cohen's about how Semantic Web helps introduce meaning, there are two basic complementing aspects. The first is expressive and rigorous logical knowledge that precisely defines the intention of assertions in terms of what conclusions they sanction. The second is (hyper)textual documentation of a human-readable kind, e.g., for primitive/leaf concept

Diane: Next, we'll bring up Ben Grosof

Speaker: Ben Grosof, Vulcan, Inc.
... I will be speaking about opps for semweb and knowledge representation for XBRL
... I work for company of Paul Allen
... Worked on knowledge representation
... also advise venture capital
... Have been working on XBRL since 2000 at MIT
... From 2004-2007 I was a scientific advisor to XBRL
... and also helped connect XBRL to W3C
... Feel like this workshop is a bit like my baby, too and delighted to see it happen
... I have worked a lot on semantic rules
... Some industry standards on rules
... Rule Interchange Format and Rule Profile
... and value around SemWeb
... some ideas in Oracle and IBM products
... I will be speaking about use of knowledge representation techniques
... in XBRL and realm of apps that XBRL addresses
... First talk about overall relationships

slide 4

scribe: History of Parallax
... XBRL and SemWeb evolved separately in parallel
... communities non-overlapping but increasing synergy
... Large opps for synergy to leverage and share technical approaches and application domain
... Overall three axes
... Better expressiveness and understanding of expressiveness
... Techniques for interoperability
... what you can do and what will be tough
... and third, Performance optimization techniques
... Dave Raggett's talk
... and Mike Cataldo and Lee Feignenbaum's talks address the knowledge representation issue
... RDF is better sharing than plain XML; a complement not a substitute
... think of it as a layer on top
... having directed graphs, tree, traversal is what you care about
... rather than order traversal
... all good things
... Focus on semantic rules
... better for sharing than business rules
... One important qualitative point
... They can handle exception, change in update and formulation relatively gracefully
... Talk about default, higher order
... I'll walk through some examples

slide 6

scribe: Another important think with KR
... is sophistication and knowledge acquisition
... targets business users
... area of UI and authoring
... of taxonomy, mapping relationships, taxonomy extensions
... Queries used; techniques such as rascal
... Semantic wikis
... Semantic media wiki plus run by Vulcan
... Slides and position paper are on my Web site
... PDF and PPT have links you can click
... Via knowledge interchange is important
... being able to do automated translation between KR formats
... support business rules systems
... semweb community has put energy into
... XBRL not as much in systems rules area
... existing compliance systems
... are all in business rules systems
... draw on SemWeb community there will be an advantage for XBRL
... A third area where SemWeb can offer to XBRL
... ontologies and knowledge bases
... so if working in Oil & Gas, or HCLS
... Fourth is Virality
... SemWeb has penetration in ecommerce, health, media, social networking, marketing
... has an intersection with the XBRL ecosystem community

slide 7

scribe: In turn, SemWeb folks should collaborate with XBRL folks
... Financial reporting
... XBRL is in every aspect of business, gov't and non-profitl
... it's quite practical, good platform
... for adoption
... XBRL offers a technical challenge to firm up connections to XML Schemas
... some connection there but could be made better
... Next drill down into Semantic uses for XBRL

slide 9

scribe: Semantic rules good for mapping
... define an extension, map one to another
... this is fairly demanding from an expressiveness viewpoint
... Let me give examples
... someone gives info without pricing
... or shipping
... When you look at e to e rations

s/ratios

scribe: in financial ratios
... not just what fiscal year is what Ashu mentioned
... but last four quarters of reporting
... and the next quarter
... with or without appreciation
... what changes under accounting rules
... revenue for a sub-category
... See an example shortly
... More generally, the issue of mapping between different sources and consumers of financial info
... each has its own analytic or pro forma view
... different jurisdictions
... another issue, big one, dealing with exceptions and one-time events
... A few years ago I worked as a financial analyst for a Wall Street firm
... they published a quarterly newsletter; I prepared ratios
... this is pre-Web
... the footnote were all real action
... Michelle's slides yesterday said it was all about that
... An example from those days
... was sale of mid-town NYC building
... Oh, so that's why they make it look reasonable even though they lost money on loans
... slide 10
... Another important use of semnatic rules for XBRL
... XBRL has infor to be integrated with call rules, regulation, laws
... revolve around trust, privacy, security, access control, authorization
... authorization to see an account, compliance, governance and other operations
... also rules in analytics and monitoring
... may be contextualized
... triggered actions based on monitoring
... SPARQL and XQuery can provide
... ways for querrying
... decisions and triggered actions
... slide 11
... Example of an exception in an ontology translation
... Let's say a company is reporting
... where categorization includes price of small company acquired for its intellectual property
... This is common in IT or biotech
... but may want to exclude certain info
... Get the feeling
... the first is the rule
... Normally bring it over
... Next rule says, what counts for acquisition, does not count
... So we give that another label, acquisition for not operating
... Then we see a rule which is an exception
... Fourth rule counts as an acquisiiton
... Then we have other information
... about R&D salaries
... and acquisition amounts
... and what it includes
... what counts or does not count toward an R&D operating costs
... map from the pro forma
... which may use a taxonomy extention from one to the other
... slide 12
... SemWeb Rules
... user integration, business partner in M& A setting
... before absorbed
... Familiary and training
... standardized rules better than a one-off system
... Easier to modify
... better quality and transparency
... open literature
... Provable guarantees helps with governance
... Reducing vendor lock-in
... and expressive power
... and various kinds of reformulations

Diane: Five minutes

Ben: Background for KR for meaning
... slide 16
... declarative logic
... basis for almost all structured knowledge management
... databases, semantic rule standards, ontologies

slide 17

scribe: Semantic Web standards "stack"
... what's new is logic framework
... SIlK is a large research program
... brings key features you need for ontology mapping
... closely integrated actions, higher order for reformulations
... there is a lot more detail available through links in dec
... and the position paper
... slide 20 wrap up
... What's coming with Semantic Rules
... They will increase in adoption
... and in expressiveness
... by W3C extension for standards
... plan to propose a new dialect
... under framework
... similar to SILK
... KR challenges
... What can't we do?
... numerical reason integrated with symbolic reasoning needs more research
... specifics of money, time and date
... convenience around contextual reformulation for ontology mapping
... OWL and RDF are weak
... For you adn the community to do's
... Learn about SEmWeb and KR if you are XBRL person
... think about strengths and weaknesses
... plan ahead about design choices
... More info on Web page
... Soon more detailed tutorial presentation on SemWeb Rules
... I'll be giving at ISWC in Chantilly, VA later this month
... Thanks for your attention

Diane: Thank you for the depth and overview of bringing the two communities together
... there is a higher order of expressivenes down path of SemWEb tech
... but still needs to be collaboration of domain expertise in XBRL taxonomy
... Where do you see that collaboration happening
... Still requires a lot of domain expertise

Ben: I think you put your finger on something important
... XBRL community is similar to other industry consortia
... that have developed detailed taxonomies in detail in XML or OWL
... things like ACCORd
... those best owned by industry sector, in this case XBRL II and other financial industry
... What's critical is bring SemWeb rules people to engage in that
... Would help if governmental and private sector would bring resources to that
... A lot of this is development and standards work
... I am encouraged by success of XBRL in mobilizing SEC and adopting standards
... Given financial melt-down and its impact, important to see gov't resources dedicated
... Like tens of millions, not single digit millions
... per year over the next year or two
... Ramp up to hundreds of millions
... Just in US alone
... Crticial issue is how to make the case to whom
... Look at Recovery.gov and amount of money Treasury is putting into things
... a percent should be going into oversight

Diane: I think there is a huge consenus in this room on that point
... All the time
... People are hungry looking
... Thank you for your time

[applause]

Diane: Half hour break
... We are running behind
... Over lunch we'll talk about break-out topics

<BenjaminGrosof> Dave, is it possible to post the presentations by Edward and Sean on the program webpage? I have no access to their slides as of now.

Ben Manning, Intuit: You have a diagram of funnel

scribe: of data for users
... This approach seems to require anticipation of what users need
... What about something more reactive to feedback
... Something people bring up and retain
... Not just rely on queries that are a one-way flow
... People could rate it and there would be preservation of the knowledge

Ed Curry: Yes, queries are performed by the users

scribe: and do take into account the presentation of results

Diane: Thank you Edward
... Next from DERI is Sean O'Riain

Speaker: Sean O'Riain
... I am presenting on behalf of Alexandra Passant
... Look beyond boundaries
... not just financial facts
... Ed was speaking about the heavier end of our work
... This is the lighter end
... We looked at Financial LInked Data
... and Social Linked Data
... People were talking about toxic assets
... would be good to link trend with facts
... make information more transparent and discoverable
... If you can link data you can traverse it
... Linked data to enable transparent discussions
... Four key principles for linked data
... Wikipedia also has a good primer on linked data and Tim Berners'Lee's TED talk 2009
... Four principles
... URIs as names for things
... USe HTTP URIs to look up those names
... Get back other info and link to A, B, C; get to a linked data graph
... Essential thing is you can jump across silos
... In terms of technologies
... for enabling linked financial data
... You need to represent the data you are looking at
... Ontologies will do that
... Key point is that the ontology tells you about the semantics
... so you can combine statements
... Different ways to export and wrap RDF data
... Three ontologies
... community, people, linked data definitions
... pull information, people, and conversations together
... This morning Dave showed you the Linked Open Data Cloud
... you just link to the data
... BBC is a good example
... they use dbpedia as their source
... to present information on their Web site
... Get information on geonames
... Go to geonames to get geo info; get topics; dip in and link information
... This allows an advanced querying capability
... A large linked data cloud
... SPARQL is the W3C standard for querying the RDF graph
... It has some limitations, but looking to extend RDF model to include
... a [?] aspect
... See comparisons among the diverse data
... Social Web
... main driver behind Web 2.0
...collaborations: blogs, wikis, tweets
... Discussions around topics of interest
... No easy movement across wikis and blogs
... big problem
... opportunity for people to comment on this data
... Begin to comment on financial data
... Apply linked data principles to that discussion forum and make data machine readable
... Would provide move to greater insights of financial discussions
... part of the ecosystem if you like
... Two vocabularies
... One is FOAF, friend of a friend
... allows you to aggregate discussion in forum or blog
... very lightweight
... easy to integrate, community to support, APIs exist
... Here is the ontology
... Contextualize and publish a conversation
... get a greater level of analytics; but can still aggregate the data
... An example that we did, a mash-up
... A search engine Sig.ma
... It aggregates people's data
... uses a widget
... Can see who is talking about the same topic
... Can see across different discussion groups, bulletin boards
... Actually doing a variation of this for [?]
... Social semantics and financial linked data
... Look at linking the agencies and grants
... Look at bottom
... see a post about a grant, in relation to an agency
... See who is saying what about a topic
... If you have a library of ontologies, you can use own, or extend it
... Data transparency
... Identifying authors
... is an employee talking? Are they talking about mergers & acquisitions
... You see that first level of trust
... Begins to get into provinance discussion
... hopping across communities
... Idea here is, can you come up with a hot topic before it happnes

s/happens

scribe: Is there something hot that we should pay attention to
... Looking at community effects
... Conversation of topics
... Looking at non-technical users; light-weight
... Use URI identifiers
... We will look at privacy and trust issues
... ALl those questions about where it came from, do I trust where it came from
... for what reason is information being provided
... Linked data; how, what should we link
... Start at ground level slowly
... and layer on
... get the aggregated effect
... Let's you do that light weight, then add on the analytics
... Get our governments to share public data
... could link more data; need an ontology

Diane: Thanks very much
... I am interested in the noise on the Web effect
... At Harvard Law Lab there was a discussion about crowd sourcing to get feedback
... Seems that social ontologies
... would be good way to crowd source if there is noise

Sean: If you can link you can aggregate
... even mediocre analytics
... can give you a big bang for the buck

Diane: Identification and citation of using URIs in the post

Sean: Yes, you can link back

<Karen_> Walter: If URIs are implicit in the Web

<Karen_> ...is there a database of URIs worth looking at?

<Karen_> Sean: No

<Karen_> Walter: It's implicit in the structure

<Karen_> Sean: Use a URI at any point

<Karen_> Walter: Can I make predicates that decompose the URI?

<Karen_> ...I could build a database that references relationships

<MateusCruz> I will present on behalf of Paulo.

<Karen_> invite rrsagent

<Karen_> Walter: You are really pointing out the Web object

<Karen_> ...it's not really like a database

<dsr> Walter: here is the revenue number for 1996, are you really talking about that particular number, as for all you know there may have been an amendment later on

<Karen_> ...everything in this column says it's about revenue

<Karen_> ...May want to talk about this in trust and privacy

<Karen_> ...not everything about company on Web is reliable

<Karen_> ...I'm done

<Karen_> Patrick Slattery, Deloitte: Thanks for your presentation

<Karen_> ...Have you considered some form of tiered participation to manage noise

<Karen_> ...And reason I ask

<Karen_> ...Beyond commentary, have you looked at ways to share models?

<Karen_> Sean: No

<Karen_> ...With financial side, needs to be trustworthy

<Karen_> Ashu: I would like to Walter's comments

<Karen_> ...What I believe SemWeb brings beyond identification of URIs

<Karen_> ..if we look into databases

<Karen_> ...The result with Google could be 10K matches

<Karen_> ...the question has 10K documents

<Karen_> ...so SemWeb lets you refine your query further

<Karen_> ...to an advanced search

<Karen_> ...That is rules uniqueness

<Karen_> Diane: Thank you very much Sean, very thougth provoking

<Karen_> Dave: Mateus Cruz

<Karen_> Diane: Mateus could you introduce yourself

<Karen_> Speaker: Mateus Cruz

<Karen_> ...First apologize for Paolo Caetano da Silva

<Karen_> ...who could not present today

<Karen_> ...Linked-based and Multi-dimentional langauge

<Karen_> Speaking is clipped

<Karen_> Mateus explains XML technologies related to project

<Karen_> ...XLink

<Karen_> slide 3

<Karen_> ...XLink Based Data Metamodel

<Karen_> ...First we did mathematic formulization of the data model

<Karen_> ...We had some changes, additions based on XBRL changes

<Karen_> slide 4

<Karen_> ...Summary of the data used by XPath+

<Karen_> ...extension based on XPath

<Karen_> ...allows the query in a document which links are used to represent information

<Karen_> ...Useful in XBRL

<Karen_> ...widely used

<Karen_> ...You can navigate in linked space

<Karen_> ...slide 5

<Karen_> ...We talk about query statements of proposed language

<Karen_> ...LMDQL

<Karen_> ...multidimensional queries

<Karen_> ...First one where we can specify a variable for query

<Karen_> ...and a different way to represent

<Karen_> ...under assets

<Karen_> ...left part of slide we have government, bank, and private bank

<Karen_> ...two ways to bridge the bank node

<Karen_> ...LMDQL Operators

<Karen_> ...one of main operators is OperatorDefinition

<Karen_> ...create in real time

<Karen_> ...can be stored in a library so it can be retrieved for later use

<Karen_> ...and for horizontal analysis

<Karen_> ...When they have, for example

<Karen_> Diane: You have to wrap up

<Karen_> ...analysis operators are based on ?

<Karen_> Scribenick having difficulty hearing

<Karen_> slide 9

<Karen_> LMDQL Implementation Aspects

<Karen_> Diane: Thank you Mateus for stepping in for Paolo

<Karen_> ...We are going to switch order and do break-out sessions before the last panel

<Karen_> Speaker: Christian Leibold

<Karen_> ...I am happy to speak for a lot of people

<Karen_> ...The Musing project

<Karen_> ...or Initiative

<Karen_> ...a project funded by EC

<Karen_> ...Semnatic Intelligence

<Karen_> ...I'd like to talk about our motivation, how and why we use ontologies

<Karen_> ...We integrated XBRL

<Karen_> ...and tell how we accessed the information

<Karen_> ...and some conclusions

<Karen_> ...The Musings initiative

<Karen_> ...showcase in three vertical domains

<Karen_> ...Finance sector, credit risk

<Karen_> ...Internationalization, risk evolve from business in int'l context

<Karen_> ...Operational risk management and education tools

<Karen_> ...Focus on IT intensive organizations

<Karen_> ...Many people in the project

<Karen_> Christian names participants

<Karen_> Organizational structure

<Karen_> ...Semantic based approach

<Karen_> ...not just about integrating data but about integrating the knowledge

<Karen_> slide: Linguistic Structuring

<Karen_> ...a German example

<Karen_> ...says a new member of the board was appointed on March 7

<Karen_> ...there is a predicate

<Karen_> ...We can do that in a couple languages: German, French, English, Italian and Dutch

<Karen_> ...Example from Belgian national bank

<Karen_> ...Semantic specification drawn from anotated funds

<Karen_> ...Information fusion

<RobertoGarcia> Hi, I'm on the call right now

<Karen_> ...Combining XBRL structural recap

<RobertoGarcia> Waves to all

<Karen_> Yeah!

<Karen_> Roberto, will be speaking next; Christian almost done

<RobertoGarcia> I'm hope it works, I'm on Skype out from home...

<Karen_> ...Deriving ontologies from XBRL structures

<Karen_> ...Linkage between a taxonomy and rest of our ontology family

<Karen_> ...points to context and to an item

<Karen_> ...to whole context or to a single item

<Karen_> ...with all the related information

<Karen_> ...we can point to single item or the whole instance

<Karen_> ...Context concept and domain ontologies

<Karen_> ...Musing knowledge base is a legal entity

<Karen_> ...Example of data associated with XBRL

<Karen_> ...Each box is one ontology, one problem area

<Karen_> ...generic and upper level information

<Karen_> ...more specific info farther up you go

<Karen_> ...Use case from several work streams

<Karen_> ...credit risk

<Karen_> ...regional indicators from internationalization

<Karen_> ...This ontology structure was used as a schema for a repository

<Karen_> ...Do a full closure and dump into a data base

<Karen_> ...Use SPARQL queries to select an update

<Karen_> Diane: Save time for questions; go ahead and conclude

<Karen_> Christian: To conclude

<Karen_> ...Opportunities for continued work

<Karen_> ...We did some annotation in context of business rules

<Karen_> ...We integrated XBRL to a knowledge base

<Karen_> ...Happy about that

<Karen_> Thanks for your attention

<Karen_> Diane: Thank you for traveling to be here

<Karen_> ...The depth and breadth of projects

<Karen_> ...are impressive

<Karen_> ...Like to collaborate with you to cross-pollinate

<Karen_> ...the Deutsche gap

<Karen_> s/GAAP

<Karen_> Christian: We have not looked into US GAAP; focus was EU

<Karen_> ...Israeli XBRL may be similar; we have some experience with that

<Karen_> ...Come to point where we have reached sufficient quality

<Karen_> Diane: Other questions? Thank you for presentation

<Karen_> Dave: We hope to hear from Roberto in Spain

<Karen_> Diane: we are putting up slides; can you introduce self and topic

<Karen_> Roberto?

<Karen_> Diane: Thanks, Roberto

<Karen_> Speaker: Introduce myself

<BenjaminGrosof> Diane and Dave: If you'd like me or other remote people to join in a break out session, please let me/us know how. Otherwise, I'll assume I won't. Thanks.

<Karen_> Diane: ten minute coffee break

<Karen_> ...then do the break-outs

<Karen_> ...45 minutes each

<Karen_> ...moderator and a spokesperson

<Karen_> ...and a short presentation

<Karen_> Diane: Welcome back from the break

<Karen_> ...Here are some potential break-out topics

<Karen_> 1. Solving teh Entity Identity Mismatch

<Karen_> Show of hands on this topic?

<Karen_> [8 hands]

<Karen_> 2. Financial EcoSystem

<Karen_> ...We have a wonderful reporting supply chain diagram

<Karen_> ...Now that we have talked about silos

<Karen_> ...and the XML-enhanced silos

<Karen_> ...to show to outside world

<Karen_> ...what about diagraming that

<Karen_> [3]

<Karen_> 3. Dealing with text in financial information

<Karen_> ...processing that text

<Karen_> ...we heard about inference

<Karen_> hand on finding text

<Karen_> [1 hand]

<Karen_> 4. Collaborating and sharing ontologies

<Karen_> ...DERI, Musings, Rhizome

<Karen_> [1 hand]

<Karen_> 5. Resroucing the collaboration

<Karen_> [3 hands]

<Karen_> maybe combine five and six

<Karen_> 6. Potential pilot projects

<Karen_> ...looking for resources and funding

<Karen_> [four hands]

<Karen_> I hear entity identity and resourcing

<Karen_> ...OTher topics to carry out?

<Karen_> Dave: Two rooms with tables and chairs, and space in foyer areas

<Karen_> Diane: Let's use the two break-out rooms

<Karen_> ...take a flip chart board

<Karen_> ...Appoint a facilitator and a spokesperson to report findings

<Karen_> ...Next steps and key issues addressed

<Karen_> ...Anyone else left

<Karen_> ...Who's left, I'll work on the ecosystem diagram

<Karen_> ...stay in this room

<Karen_> ...Back here at 4:20pm

<Karen_> ...Discuss your findings

<Karen_> ...Get your coffee!

<BenjaminGrosof> I'll be off for about an hour for another meeting, will try to rejoin for the final discussion after the breakouts.

<GeoffShuetrim> Have the breakout sessions ended yet?

<Karen_> Ending in 5 minutes

<Karen_> almost ready to present

<dsr> We come back from the break out sessions

<dsr> There were 3: financial entity identity management, resourcing the collaboration and potential pilot projects, and diagramming an internconnected financial ecosystem.

<dsr> Diane reports on the ecosystem group

<dsr> Cate reports on the identity group.

<dsr> (we have flip charts and a typed up summary)

<dsr> We will expand the minutes from the video recording and the document typed up by Linda.

<dsr> Naming Entities

<dsr> Proprietary vs. public

<dsr> Proprietary - Lots of proprietary but not available without $$$

<dsr> Public – each regulator has their own identification system

<dsr> Possible models

<dsr> • State registry model

<dsr> • DNS system model

<dsr> • Wiki model (AVOX)

<dsr> • Matrix model (reference to authority sources)

<dsr> • Merged agency model

<dsr> • IFRS OMB

<dsr> • Dutch Ministry of Justice refactoring into RDF

<dsr> Attributes of a good model

<dsr> • Governance – responsible party

<dsr> • Non proprietary Unique identifier

<dsr> • Persistence

<dsr> • International

<dsr> • Confidence level

<dsr> • Should capture hierarchy (perhaps % ownership or rules of control)

<dsr> • Attribute information

<dsr> • extensible

<dsr> New Jersey is operating a naming service for businesses.

<dsr> Diane wraps up with a summary of next steps and thanks for the organizers

Diane: So how do we continue the conversation with various communities

Dave, how does W3C work?

scribe: Chartering of work
... in Working Groups
... or Interest Groups
... involve some staff support
... and other groups
... Incubator groups
... lowest costs
... So identity group could possibly come together in incubator group

Diane: so if we could create an incubator group on this topic
... Karen, can we keep mailing list open
... do some mailing out of findings and reports
... and maybe some wikis

Karen: Process is we need three member companies to start an Incubator Group

Tim: In break-out session, I cannot raise money
... until we have some demonstrations
... I cannot sell that now

Diane: End of day, would you like to share comments
... glaring holes

Dazza Greenwood, eCitizens Foundation

<GeoffShuetrim> Thanks again for supporting my remote attendance. It has been very informative.

scribe: We have been talking about financial accounting for business
... broader context for bigger business benefits
... transformation of business itself

Dave: We will be taking recordings
... and putting together more detailed minutes
... expand with the recordings
... and the reports from the break-out sessions
... We will get that back to you
... And set up a mailing list
... and set up discussions
... some notion of scoping for what we want to achieve

Diane: There may be other identity folks
... to incorporate their requirements into other groups
... Thanks again to XBRL II, W3C and FDIC for hosting
... Look forward to the next time

[Applause]

Workshop adjourned

- DRAFT -

Workshop on improving access to financial data on the web - day two

06 Oct 2009

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output