<Karen> scribenick: Karen

<Otto> Watch any cell phone near the wireless microphones!

<shuetrim> Hello

Speaker: Mike Bartell
... I think this is our third conference at XBRL hosted at FDIC
... We have been involved with XBRL In'tl and US
... Anybody who shows up this early on Monday to talk about Semantic Web, you deserve a badge
... Financial data standards have shown much progress, but still a long way to go
... Not just technically but from a business standpoint
... Ask CFOs, business people if they are comfortable with sharing their financial data
... Most CFOs are mostly in the dark regarding potential of data standards and Semantic Web
... and yet business relies on financial data
... The data standard capabilities that exist are not being realized at the level they need to be
... A lot of material here
... My hope is that the non-business folks understand the value of standard financial data
... Think about bar codes, think about languages and dialects around the globe
... It may be well known at a local level
... but when you try to share across agencies, industries, bureaus, it becomes an almost impossible journey
... Have to take long time for roll-up
... We have to do better, to work cross-orgazniations to leveral XBRL's potential
... Technology is not so much the problem as the business side
... A couple milestones in the month of October
... Got an email on the XBRL mailing list
... Ten years ago in October, was the first in'tl meeting
... Ten years has gone by fast; I wasn't with the movement then, but last four years I have been
... Federal Reserve, Office of Comptroller of Currancy and FDIC got together on call system
... It's a heavy use of XBRL, even today
... We are proud of this business case
... We have seen efficiencies with XBRL
... I'd like to see more of these white papers, to show the financial community what can come of this
... for those in Wash area
... and those in government
... It would be great to start at local level

<Otto> (URL for CDR system - https://cdr.ffiec.gov/public/)

Speaker: to demonstrate financial data exchange among agencies
... Maybe we need some pilots, some small cases
... rather than bringing together armies of people
... Instead let's use technology to use data across agencies
... So we can look like a single organization, not stove pipes
... Today and tomorrow should be exciting
... I appreciate opportunity to host this
... And work of XBRL and W3C
... Again, we need to bring business and tech together
... Tech is mature, we need to wake up the business side and show the business value
... on a national, government, and global level
... Should be a great two days
... Thanks again for letting us, FDIC host for you

Moderator: Diane Mueller, JustSystems and XBRL II Board
... Welcome and thank you all for coming
... Also want to thank FDCI for their wonderful facilities today
... My co-chair is Dave Raggett, W3C
... I'm Vice Chair of XBRL II, JustSystems
... and other technical groups
... Idea is to review today's format
... We had stated some themes for the Worksho

s/Workshop

scribe: About leveraging different standards
... We have not just XBRL, but other standards organizations
... We want to do cross-pollination and harmonization
... As Mike pointed out, we want to bring in the business use cases
... We have done a lot of work with preparers and the SEC use case
... This technology and how financial information impacts society
... The financial markets, investors, etc.
... It's a huge ecosystem
... We'd like to bring together regulators, financial institutions, and members from Semantic Web communities
... So we are trying to do a Workshop and brainstorming and discussions
... It's an open and public forum
... Everything is being recorded and will be transcribed and available
... We invite your participation in discussions and break-out topics
... Use the flip charts to write ideas
... We have invited speakers, panels, thanks to those who volunteered
... Tomorrow we will do some break-out sessions
... from what you write on the flip charts

<Otto> Separate flip charts for Challenges, Resources, Topics for Breakouts, Commentaries

scribe: We will make a report and publish it as well
... We encourage you to be very active
... So about the flow of the workshop
... Three key questions
... What is
... What's next
... What's missing
... What is: here about current challenges
... talk about harmonization
... don't mean singing [laughs]
... and in the afternoon we'll talk about What's missing
... What do we need to do to connect the dots?
... Some interesting conundrums
... What are the consumers going to do with all this data?
... What are the use cases?
... How do we go about feeding the Semantic Web?
... The Semantic Web is waiting with baited breath for all these data filings

Diane: Some logistics
... Please use mics to queue up
... We have people on phone
... Use the irc channel and twitter
... irc is #xbrl

<Otto> (But keep your Blackberry AWAY from the mikes!)

Diane: twitter is #w3cxbrl
... If you are giving a talk or demo, please try to use FDIC computer
... And come see us
... So our goals
... Bringing all of these communities together
... We want to nurture this ecosystem
... and tease out what are the requirements to support this
... and how to resource and fund it
... That's often the stumbling block, how to resource it
... No matter where you are
... try to get the right people in the room at the right time
... and get those projects funded
... So I would like to invite Tony Fragnito, CEO of XBRL International

Speaker: Tony Fragnito
... I want to start by apologizing for those of you who have heard introduction about XBRL
... Our Mission [slide]
... A 501(C)6 organization, 600 participants, 24 jurisdictions
... relationships with international associations
... this network provides a collaborative organizations
... We have a tremendous breadth of people involveed
... standards development, best practices board
... We are global, always looking for times to meet; broad representation
... board of directors and an int'l steering committee
... comprised of reps from jurisdictions and at-large members
... from the business reporting supply chain
... that group is growing, nearly 30 individuals
... Our work is accomplished through work of volunteers
... and a staff of five
... Small staff organization, but look at contributions
... from all the jurisdictions that advocate from XBRL from local level
... we really have had a significant impact in our ten year history
... XBRL is global
... This map demostrates global reach
... In China, Japan, Australia

<scribe> ...new activity in South America

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: We have tremendous reach, all around the globe
... What we do
... Specification is area where we put most of our resources
... Agendas of our steering committee are focused on the specifications
... And focus on use cases to evolve the standards
... So why join
... The standard is very young
... Org has existed 10 years
... We rely on volunteers
... And encourage you as individuals and employers
... to join
... actvitiy that is worth your time
... What we have done with best practices board
... Is to create a database of projects
... At least 45 countries with active XBRL projects
... and many have multiple projects
... Talk about breadth of XBRL, you see many projects
... Where are they?
... Largest slice in the gov't sector
... not-for-profit, exchanges
... One of comments I hear, is where is the data
... Not as much data as people anticipate
... Projects are in reporting systems in gov't, like call reports
... As public company reporting data becomes available, we will see an increase in data
... Back in 2007
... Looking at all the projects, the number of distinct projects was over 200
... and what we know is coming online
... Several projects are in implementation phaes
... LIke SEC, requiring filing
... Look at SBR projects, Companies House in UK
... In 2009-2011
... These are our projections
... on projects that have reported
... See that number is above 4.5 million
... instances per year
... So it shows the huge increase in data over next few years

<Otto> I am not as good a typist as Karen, but she is speaking now

<Otto> Starting off with a little fun

<Otto> the Internet begins 40 years ago

<Otto> Easy Rider was top grossing film

<Otto> 20 years ago, the WWW was envisioned, and Raiders of the Lost Ark was at the box office

<Otto> Tim Berners-Lee founds Worldwide Web Consortium W3C

<Otto> W3C - International standards consortium

<Otto> HTML, XML, Semantic Technologies

<Otto> all ROYALTY-FREE

<Otto> to be open and interoperable

<Otto> What does that mean?

<Otto> W3C is a market-making org, not just a standards body

<Otto> Billion dollar web areas

<Otto> Emerging markets

<Otto> Video in the Web is exploding

<Otto> Workshop at Cisco

<Otto> tagging, time texting video

<Otto> Make video a first class citizen

<Otto> The Web of Data, as Tony F mentioned

<Otto> Many initiatives on linking data

<Otto> Oil and Gas, Healthcare and Life Sciences

<Otto> also an EGov initiative, financial services and reporting

<Otto> How does all this happen?

<Otto> Organizations make a commitment (see value, get vision) and devote resources

<Otto> In 65 working groups

<Otto> also W3C staff

<Otto> An effective process: neutral, open, collabrative

<Otto> Bring together the constituencies/stakeholders

<Otto> Salute to members, request to raise hands

<Otto> [numerous hands raised]

<Otto> Also invited experts

<Otto> If you have questions, feel free to ask Karen!

<Otto> Diane invites David Blaszkowsky to the podium

<Otto> A few brief comments became an invite talk

<Otto> Came with a few notes

<Otto> Good morning and thanks to all for attending an incredibly important opportunity

<Otto> How do we use this new volume of information that has become available

<Otto> Thanks to W3C, Dave Raggett, XII for making this possible

<Otto> and FDIC for hosting

<Otto> Perhaps SEC will pick up the bid to sponsor the next one?

<Otto> DISCLAIMER

<Otto> as everyone knows

<Otto> The comments of SEC employees are disclaimed and reflect David's thoughts

<Otto> and not of SEC, commissioners or commission

<Otto> Would like to avoid the "puffery"

<Otto> as many in the room are techologists and looking to use information or make things work

<Otto> BUT

<Otto> Here speaking not just as director of organization requiring XBRL

<Otto> but as a CUSTOMER

<Otto> and one with a bit of a "guilty conscience"

<Otto> If we don't see the payoff of use

<Otto> must make a difference in the marketplace and in supervision of the marketplace

<Otto> Going to be a little less visionary and a little more practical

<Otto> Recap for those who haven't followed closely

<Otto> We have built on the wonderful work of the FDIC (salute and happy 4th aniversary)

<Otto> Seen improvement in taxonomies, software

<Otto> Innovations at SEC as well over four years

<Otto> First with SEC VFP, rules published Jan 30, 2009 after all of the delay

<Otto> Requiring (virtually) all US filers to being filing over the next three years

<Otto> also risk/return filings

<Otto> and a rule to require rating information from NRSO (credit agencies)

<Otto> Just completed the first filing period

<Otto> large accelerated filers with > $5B in global public float

<Otto> filing US GAAP

<Otto> It has gone beyond what we expected

<Otto> Already received a 10K

<Otto> Already received a fully detailed filing as well (the year 2 requirement)

<Otto> Someone has done it

<Otto> We don't know what it looks like yet, or what we will do with it

<Otto> It is an exciting time and it feels good

<Otto> Interactive Data, XBRL, interactive disclosure

<Otto> making sense out of it, putting it to use, making sense between those who file and those who use it

<Otto> The data alone isn't the point, nor is the access

<Otto> It is about operationalizing it

<Otto> Making the information more meaningful

<Otto> and bringing it to a higher plane of transparency

<Otto> a real inflection point

<Otto> Around 30 years ago this week, I started college

<Otto> After the first week of orientation we had an Aims of Education address

<Otto> A pomposs occassion

<Otto> following a drill about how well we proved ourselves in high school

<Otto> but that was just setting things up for the "real" work ahead

<Otto> Moving from "fill in the box" standardized tests

<Otto> to real liberal education

<Otto> Both SEC program and others who share with us around the world have a similar point

<Otto> Much success, much achieved in this ten year old endeavor

<Otto> But it is "at risk", at an inflection point

<Otto> XBRL has passed its SATs

<Otto> Used worldwide, Korea, Japan

<Otto> but we need to reevaluate

<Otto> Is captial more free-flowing to those who need it? Transparency

<Otto> What will make this revolution in data truly stick?

<Otto> Will the investments be found wanting?

<Otto> Looking over the agenda, I see this is what it gets to

<Otto> Multi-use software, not just one off

<Otto> Market tools, off the shelf tools, making the data sing to those who want it

<Otto> Not just for a singular purpose

<Otto> How do we make the marketplace WANT this information

<Otto> reducing costs

<Otto> bettering tools

<Otto> SEC's contribution is forcing some of that; our continuing activities will egg it on

<Otto> Challenges: extensibility in large scale and across thousands of filers

<Otto> Inspiration and indigestion forming

<Otto> I hope we will see continued steps to complete architectures for the content we want to see and use

<Otto> In 10 years, we have had a lot of public info

<Otto> FDIC, FFIEC data out for 4 years

<Otto> In the US, a challenge is that not a lot of the info has been public

<Otto> Much globally for internal purposes

<Otto> Not that it is public, we hope people will jump in

<Otto> Getting us to the urgency of this meeting

<Otto> Lots of data starting to flow

<Otto> Relatively little software to use it beyond the most basic purposes

<Otto> I hear things are happening in "labs"

<Otto> But just getting data out there isn't the full contribution to transparency

<Otto> without tools to access and use

<Otto> Not just data, but how data is applied

<Otto> Critics over the last two years have focused on cost and practicality

<Otto> We have shown it can be done inexpensively and painlessly

<Otto> Now at point to justify cost and challenges

<Otto> What Can I Do With it?

<Otto> Why aren't exising tools sufficient for enforcement accountants and lawyers

<Otto> Is superior data its own justification?

<Otto> Economically and beaurocrtically, no.

<Otto> For conventional and new tasks, need tools to work with XBRL

<Otto> How to exploit the unique benefits the audience and the speaker have spoken about

<Otto> Keen to make sense, also retail, insitutional

<Otto> analysts, users seeking greater compliance and success

<Otto> SEC is looking to gain real, deep value from the informatoin

<Otto> to automate and do task better

<Otto> do footnotes, compare footnotes

<Otto> Saw some wonderful pictures on how to link, look for red flags, work faster to protect market and investors

<Otto> SEC has issued RFIs and RFPs for tools

<Otto> Looking for a market to come to life

<Otto> A dynamic market coming from the deliberations of this workshop

<Otto> Am I fixated on GAAP, mutual funds, NRSOs and not on the tech?

<Otto> Yes, I won't apologize.

<Otto> Not to focus on them without considering Corporate Actions, CSR

<Otto> and other things the audience is working with

<Otto> it all needs to work in simple tools

<Otto> Many interested in General Ledger and things that can come from XBRL

<Otto> Many improvements that can come from this 10 year old effort

<Otto> But SEC progress is what people are looking at as the poster child

<Otto> Implicitly if not explicitly

<Otto> Looking forward to success and new tools from the results of this workshop

<Otto> We will make sense and make use

<Otto> this was a good investment on our behalf

<Otto> Thank you for indulging me and have a great conference

<Otto> Speajer from NIEM

<Otto> Donna Roy passes on her regards, had a sudden conflict

<Otto> Regards from executive leadership for being able to take part

<Otto> Speaker Anhtony Hoang

<Otto> Anthony Hoang (DHS OCIO)

<Otto> Also Justin Stekervetz

<Otto> Our goal today is to present a little bit about NIEM as a program

<Otto> and what we are doing, for next 12 - 18 months

<Otto> Given your topic today, I have provided time for Justin to cover Recovery act

<Otto> What is NIEM?

<Otto> Program founded 4 years ago focused on information sharing

<Otto> NIEM is about information in motion as opposed to information as stored, managed, used

<Otto> As I meet with people from Dept of Homeland Security

<Otto> I am asked: I think I know what NIEM is. Do I have to change my system?

<Otto> Do I have to go to my 30 year old undocument system?

<Otto> No - just information as it moves beyond firewall, across boundaries

<Otto> Address program to the Information as it moves problem.

<Otto> What do you get "in the box" with NIEM?

<Otto> Two life cycles - two heart beats

<Otto> Like oxygen in the life cycle

<Otto> Right hand side - flower petal

<Otto> Left hand side - fish hook

<Otto> If you get nothing else, this explains it

<Otto> The LHS - the flower petal - is our approach to managing a large data model.

<Otto> Equivalent in XBRL might be taxonomies.

<Otto> Our way to manage vocabulary, data models, organized around a CORE

<Otto> Opening up the core you see people and other common constructs

<Otto> Share semantics, concepts, data objects that traverse domains

<Otto> Governed by all communities of interests.

<Otto> Reaching out to the petals, you see the communities

<Otto> Things specific to a specific context

<Otto> and others that cross contexts

<Otto> NIEM 2.1 has 7000 - 8000 data components organized across the flower petal

<Otto> Approximately 1500 - 2000 in the core

<Otto> the rest in the domain areas

<Otto> Use XML Schema

<scribe> Scribenick: Karen

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: No one is going to use all 8,000 notes

s/nodes

scribe: We have a model to do this
... We have schema subset generation tool
... It allows you to search the model
... I can do a specific search
... It's like shopping Amazon.com
... pick the components and properties you need
... swipe credit card [joking]
... but you get the large data model
... It's about taking parts of large NIEM model
... and applying it to discrete business needs
... If you were involved in increasing XML taxonomies
... there is a lot of vetting
... So what's value of a highly valued model without a good process
... And that's the lifecycle process
... that feeds back
... THere are common approaches to doing extension
... Use traditional XML schema methodologies
... and added augmentation
... to deal with multiple inheritance
... We're talking about extensions
... You can map to NIEM model 80 percent
... now a 20 percent
... gap; so let's say 10 percent
... you cannot share
... but another 10 percent can provide value back to the community
... so you'll provide those exntions back
... the governance is going into the screening domain
... Or it will iterate
... it goes through vetting
... It's a back and forth process between the two diagrams
... Integrate governance, architecture, SEMs, logical model itself
... and into the XML schema, exchange
... how it gets implemented into what gets onto the wire
... Fully integrated from governance to what hits the wire
... That's the lifecycle process
... The flower petal diagram and our governance approach
... and the IPD
... the fish hook
... Information exchange ?
... With this is a lot of business document
... specific context data
... you will find business rules
... Some people want RuleML
... So paint the business context for this information exchange
... So if you pick up IPD from PA or TX
... or FBI, all these IPDs follow same format
... A couple program updates
... We put out NIEM 2.1 release
... Haven't had a major releaes of NIEM in two years
... The core did not change, it's a minor release
... just the petal areas
... The ones in red are brand new domains
... ChemBio
... Nuke
... Family services; HHS
... Maritime program with Dept of Navy
... Successful NIEM implementations
... We look at defining characteristics
... It's a multi-tiered implementation
... Articulating value across all levels of the enterprise
... We had a training

<dsr> /me notes that the conversion to PDF had some problems with font metrics, we will provided improved versions after the workshop

scribe: Deep dive into XML Schema, NIEM
... We got feedback
... That said, 'I'm not XML literate'
... I need to know about project time, scope, budget
... So we have taken our program training and broken it into 7 modules
... A big investment for us this year
... Key focus areas: Health
... where health community overlaps with Homeland Security and local interests
... Public Health, like H1N1
... Donna Roy would say, 'Person, credential, benefit'
... Applies to many areas
... a high value area to focus on
... Second area is transparency with XBRL
... We had Campbell Pryde present at NIEM conference last week
... and Mark Bolgiano, XBRL US
... Cyber Security, network defense is another area
... Domain independence
... We want to make those flower petals self-sustaining
... Give them more capabilities
... Better platforms
... My colleague from SEC said this
... Government relies on tools
... we rely on vendors to make tools
... We don't build very many
... In terms of end-user tools
... to exploit or create, we will rely on industry
... Exploratory areas moving forward
... Worked for first time with civil society groups
... they are tech savvy
... I learned that architectural style matters
... in this work of transparency
... We want to learn from this initiative
... and realize that architectual style does matter
... Most of initiatives have been around SOA architecture
... but we will be exploring new areas
... Last few minutes for Justin

Speaker: Justin Staggerwitz
... I did work on Recovery Act budget work
... Team was tasked with data exchanges for requirements of act
... Three for schemas
... Financial weekly, fundint notifications, and representations
... You see various data models we came across in OMB and GSA systems
... Looked at USA Spending.gov
... others to come up with elements that you see here
... NIEM was brought in
... due to its extensive reach at local and state levels
... a lot of states know these systems
... PA, GA, TX use NIEM extensively
... Also aligned well with tranparency requirements of the Act
... NIEM is comprised of core set and extension
... We created a number of extensions for financial activity report
... Go to NIEM.gov and see extensions
... Concentrate on recipient reporting
... Off Recovery.gov
... There is another site, Federalreporting.gov
... Data fed in by recipients
... 10 Oct recipients upload to Web site
... Then agencies can do reviews of data
... 30 Oct. the data will be available to public on data.gov
... So where are we headed?
... Once we see public data
... we will know more
... We are going through an exploratory phase
... power of XBRL is strong
... would be advantageous to work in harmony

Diane: Would you like questions?

Question from audience

Mike Foley, IBM

scribe: It's not about cross-over from XBRL
... How does NIEM compare to OASIS core components
... I'm curious about those cross-overs and XBRL as well

Anthony: A great question
... How do we compare cores when it comes to the UNC effect
... and XBRL core
... another area where I am not so versed
... What you want is higher level
... Concept of the core
... We did evaluate CCTS
... it is commercially trade focused
... What we really needed was something to address governmental processes
... you would find similarieis
... where do you draw the line for core and extensions
... We deal with same things in terms of having a core model
... Practically driven by the governance authorities
... What belongs in core or not
... Like SemWeb, what belongs in an upper ontology or not
... Drawing that line is difficult
... As more comes, they become candidates for core

Question: What is timeline for integration of XBRL into NIEM model

scribe: the public interest community wanted to see integration
... What about path dependencies
... It will be harder to implement later on

Anthony: So two questions
... What timelines exist today for XBRL and NIEM connection
... Secondly, will it be even more difficult to implement since it wasn't done out of the gate
... To the first point, we are working on it

<Otto2> Working with Mark Bolgiano and Campbell Pryde

Anthony: Strategic business value
... we need help identifying those use cases
... those business case areas
... That would be a great question to put out to this audience
... Are there transactional needs, financial information
... those two attributes in particular
... Where NIEM and XBRL come in
... and figure out the joint value prop
... I don't think it will be difficult for Recovery.gov to implement it later on
... It was about leveraging existing content management systems
... We were not ready for that capability
... There is the data and the reports that come out
... Two ways to look at the data
... We need to identify the value added within architectural areas
... It's not a one-size-fits-all approach
... For me personally, I learned alot from what the open gov't groups
... wanted in terms of open architectures
... But internal groups weren't ready
... and do within the timelines
... It was a reach
... It's about timing, but I think it will happen

Q: Recovery.gov loves XBRL, but didn't have time to do it

Anthony: yes, that's fair

Diane: Thank you Anthony and Jeffrey
... So NIEM and XBRL use cases would be good topics for the white boards for our breakout sessions
... Thank you both for coming
... We're going to take a 20 minute coffee brea

s/break

scribe: Return at 11:00am

<Otto2> Starting again with Speaker Walter Hamscher

<Otto2> Please think about questions, challenges and put up on flip charts

<Otto2> Will take questions hope for lively discussion

<Otto2> Good morning, I'm Walter Hamscher

<Otto2> DISCLAIMER

<Otto2> My thoughts are my own

<Otto2> Title is a pun

<Otto2> want to get to key indices for accessing XBRL data

<Otto2> ("Keys" to SEC interactive data)

<Otto2> Driking from Fire hose (or tepid bath)

<Otto2> Please ask questions at any time

<Otto2> Subtitle for talk

<Otto2> How I Learned to Stop Kvetching and Love EDGAR [on screen]

<Otto2> Ahead of its time

<Otto2> People not leveraging FDIC data

<Otto2> Will discuss, as with any good talk, syntax and semantics

<Otto2> Why it is what it is

<Otto2> time permitting EDGAR

<Otto2> and "so what"

<Otto2> EDGAR a quantum leap better

<Otto2> good, fast, cheap (absolutely free)

<Otto2> Syntax from the Top Down: EDGAR in General, RSS feed, One Sample Interactive Data Submission

<Otto2> From data in envelope to XBRL

<Otto2> Here is EDGAR in general (on screen)

<Otto2> You can put in names, ticker symbols, CIK

<Otto2> Central Index Key, the one best identifier

<Otto2> companies go by different names, merge, split

<Otto2> but CIK is a KEY

<Otto2> If you know orgs CIK, you will get data relevant to them

<Otto2> Many Filers have similar names

<Otto2> Once you find the right Filer, you will see indicator showing Interactive Data as appropriate

<Otto2> Original HTML/ASCII example on screen

<Otto2> Conventional representation for a financial staement

<Otto2> Looking "inside" you will see an HTML 3.2 + style not including CSS

<Otto2> all formatting is localized

<Otto2> Often generated by MS Word

<Otto2> Lots of formatting detail for small amounts of data

<Otto2> Good news is you can take a small piece of it and it will present

<Otto2> very localized

<Otto2> That's important, as we will see in a moment

<Otto2> Stuck with this level of HTML

<Otto2> constraints from security, transport reasons

<Otto2> Looking at Interactive Data, we see something different

<Otto2> You start with the RSS feed

<Otto2> Last 100 filings with Interactive Data

<GeoffShuetrim> anyone else not getting sound via the phone connection?

<Otto2> Trivial to take once an hour and assemble entire sequence

<Otto2> If you look at the individual filings, you will find an "envelope"

<Otto2> RSS formatting

<Otto2> and important information about the filing itself

<Otto2> Important properties same as for any other data feed

<Otto2> irredundant

<Otto2> timely - if there was an amendment, I want to see the last one

<Otto2> Who is the Filer?

<Otto2> Can also see assistant directorship to help guide industry

<Otto2> All identified by URL

<Otto2> whether an instance or a taxonomy

<Otto2> Going into the data

<Otto2> you can see the Interactive Data viewer

<Otto2> Report is similar to prior HTML example with addition

<Otto2> of a few important features.

<Otto2> Click on the line item heading, and you will see the actual concept, the namespace

<Otto2> if you see gross profit, as published in the taxonomy, fixed, unchangeable

<Otto2> Filers can call it what they want, but you can see the single concept

<Otto2> A very non-trivial exercise to determine what data corresponds to which?

<Otto2> We have an accounting issue and what the law can require

<Otto2> Gross profit can be called Net Revenue on the FS

<Otto2> In red, you see the summary of the financial statement

<Otto2> and down here you see the Notes to the FS

<Otto2> It is insufficient to look at a line item like Net Revenues and know what it means

<Otto2> without the Notes

<Otto2> In magazine industry, eg, the Notes explain when they recognize subscription revenue

<Otto2> Note on screen - here is a text block placed inside of tags

<Otto2> that is tremendously useful

<Otto2> still useful as people can read it and use the table of contents approach

<Otto2> XBRL revealed

<Otto2> If you look at a note - typical one on screen

<Otto2> Might be formatted as HTML; next year, every number that appears in the note will have its own separate tag

<Otto2> true of the entire Note

<Otto2> Note as a whole has one tag

<Otto2> If this were a live demonstration, I would be able to hove my mouse and show you the [individual items]

<Otto2> were also separately and individually tagged

<Otto2> with additional metadata to tie it all together

<Daniel_Bennett> wow. Walt pointed out an RSS feed that seems to blend RSS 2.0 with some RSS 1.0

<Otto2> Individual numbers in Notes would pop out

<Otto2> That's why the data will be considerably better than what we have

<Otto2> Underlying model is on screen

<Otto2> Want to show you just how much is inside the file

<Otto2> Here is the Consodliated Financial Statement

<Otto2> Pink concepts (w apologies to the color blind)

<Otto2> columns with contextual information (incl period of time)

<Otto2> and information on how company derived numbers (calculation links) to check the arithmetic in the files

<Otto2> People assume numbers sent to SEC normally add correctly

<Otto2> But there have long ben sign flips and other noise

<Otto2> Most often not in the "most important" large numbers

<Otto2> But market also interested in "less important" figures

<Otto2> XBRL provides interrelationships and calculations - way more than a chunk of HTML

<Otto2> Just because the display (on screen) is one representation doesn't mean you are limited to that presentation

<Otto2> You can display but line items going into the Statement of Stockholders' Equity

<Otto2> or pivot it just like a spreadsheet; things that were columns can now be rows

<Otto2> If there are four dimensions in the underlying data, that could be 24 different ways to display it

<Otto2> add the time dimension for lots of possibilities of organizing the data

<Otto2> The requirement for the Filer is to provide the detail

<Otto2> Many rules in EDGAR Filer Manual on how to present the data to be compliant

<Otto2> Another viewer on screen; incremental display ... another tool

<Otto2> This isn't like PDF where you view with a single viewer

<Otto2> A data format with a variety of applications to show it and use it

<Otto2> If all you want is a liner file, you can go back to the HTML/PDF traditional filing

<Otto2> Explaining the technology behind XBRL

<Otto2> A venerable set of slides

<Otto2> Role of XML Schema, XLink, extensibility, taxonomies

<Otto2> You have an instance document (same term as used elsewhere in XML world)

<Otto2> Organization [of US GAAP instance] is flat. Company, section of company are context

<Otto2> Facts with IDREF pointing to context

<Otto2> Facts point to Concepts in Taxonomy

<Otto2> Gross Profit, Fair Value Disclosure - Text Note - can be numbers, text, dates

<Otto2> concepts in XML Schema

<Otto2> Also use XLink for interrelationships [and certian resources]

<Otto2> DTD and schemas often thought of as being fixed in time

<Otto2> XBRL has to allow the creator of the document to EXTEND the concepts that are available

<Otto2> None of the laws or accounting standards [in the US] fix what can be presented or called

<Otto2> So we made XBRL so it could be extended

<Otto2> On screen syntax of an instance

<Otto2> Context with start dates and end dates

<Otto2> Content [of US GAAP filing] is quite flat

<Otto2> with concept, digits (reliability) content, pointers to context, units

<Otto2> There is a long list of these things

<Otto2> Role of XML Schema in validation

<Otto2> true for us, FDIC, and others

<Otto2> You want primitive data

<Otto2> You want compound data structures

<Otto2> You also need to be able to do some kind of arithmetic

<Otto2> also have co-constraints amongst data values. Different types of filings (e.g. 10K) will have

<Otto2> different set of requirements than other filings or reports.

<Otto2> Also cross-document constraints.

<Otto2> We use XML Schema for primitive data types and compound data structures.

<Otto2> We use XBRL for calculated data values and co-constraints.

<Otto2> Must be global, must allow customization

<Otto2> We have 10Qs and 10Ks with different requirements

<Otto2> Can use Formula for that

<Otto2> Nothing in XBRL for cross-document analysis

<Otto2> I am a fan of relational databases for that purpose.

<Otto2> XML Linking language

<Otto2> For an XML item, you have labels, presentation, calculations

<Otto2> We use XML Linking language to represent relationships

<Otto2> [Graphics illustrated onscreen]

<Otto2> Lets group that stuff together in a linkbase and create different kinds of linkbases

<Otto2> Label, definition, presentation, reference (calculation)

<Otto2> When we say linkbase, we mean a kind of relationship between concepts

<Otto2> We have a mechanism to be able to overlay and extend

<Otto2> [describing complex illustration onscreen]

<Otto2> We allow this overlay to happen in a taxonomy or an XBRL instance document

<Otto2> we start by defining policies (which often have nothing to do with data)

<Otto2> People would create company, use filing agent, we would try to extract and analyze data late.

<Otto2> Idealized model, we get nicely structured bucnhes of data which go into big honker database organized across 4, 6, 10 dimensions

<Otto2> and when people want data, they can get what they want.

<Otto2> Financial regulation governed by Reg S-X, and you cannot require more than what it requires

<Otto2> A report is a sales pitch (the 10K and 10Q) and so the notion is that it is much more than a data file

<Otto2> There are intermediaries everywhere

<scribe> Scribenick: Karen

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: That example I gave you about purchase
... financial property and assets and IP
... I want to report as same line item
... together they are not immaterial
... If I had 20 categories of purhases
... that cannot work
... Something about extensions
... although top level is clear
... but when you get to order and materiality
... the extensions get weird
... but they are the solution to the problem
... Government has to give people the ability to customize the presentation of data
... May see extensions in the details, not part of material items
... That's all I can say about that
... When we talk about that multi-dimensionality, people get weirded out
... So if I'm at a bus stop looking at schedules
... you are dealing with dimensions
... to force into two dimensions
... when interested in underlying dimensions
... So we're going to work on that

Diane: any questions?

Louis Matherne, Clarity Systems

scribe: There is a big gap between data modeling and presentation side

<Otto2> (and original co-founder of XBRL, when he was AICPA)

<dsr> (people in audience nod in agreement with Louis's point)

Walter: We are going to turn around way you want to see by getting dimensions right
... does not hold today between filing and engine

Diane: Walter will be on panel after lunch
... Thank you, Walter
... Next up is Linda Powell, Federa Reserve Board

Speaker: Linda Powell
... I am filling in for Mark Montoya
... Won't be the same presentation

Linda: Disclaimer...views are my own, not the Federal Reserve
... Federal Reserve has responsibility for monetary policy
... as well as reserve
... A little background
... We are receiving a lot more data than in past
... So much more metadata
... and explosion of financial data
... historically we had data we purchased from vendors
... and it used to be economists would buy a data set and manage it
... And the data collected by FedReserve, FDIC and other banking regulators
... Data from Federal Reserve system and other regulators has been centralized
... We had metadata
... We did a good job organizing, documenting
... But that was not case with data we purchased
... So I have spend time with that
... We had a business problem
... Lots of data
... not all of it well documented
... And we need to manage our metadata better
... We have 3 data repositories
... FRS (MDRM)
... Metadata is data about data
... or what the economists call the code book
... Our collection level meta data
... is housed in one repository
... what kinds of periods, what types
... at high level
... where is data from
... A few years ago we created our vendor metadata repository
... Variable level data we purchase from vendors
... MDRM is like a combo of bottom two
... I will do a brief demo of MDRM
... What's name of data collection or survey?
... How long collecting, frequency, if confidential
... info about overall data set
... Variable level data
... Person who developed MDRM (not me)
... was forward thinking
... they designed the nomenclature to be semantic for humans
... It was created before the www
... Person saw that economists and regulators needed to understand all the data
... and not research every variable
... Every variable has a two-part MDRM number
... What is the data collection, call report
... pneumonic for domestic, int'l data
... or combination of two
... tells you collection of data you are looking at
... The suffix, four characters
... is the accounting concept you are looking at
... 2170 example
... is total assets
... Doesn't matter if I'm looking at domestic finance, insurance, or bank holding companies
... If I am looking for total assets
... I look to 2170
... MDRM covers financial data collected and stored at Fed Reserve
... and structured data
... daily structure of bank data
... within banking industry
... and covers the supervisory data
... when regulators go out and examine the banks
... I am going to do a quick demo
... It is a public Web site
... From the Federal Reserve's main page
... Under reporting forms
... forms we use to collect our data
... there is a link to the micro data reference manual
... we make almost all data available to public
... So our sister companies can access the MDRM manual
... Broken out to variable level and collection level metadata
... Click on collection level
... These are all of the series we collect
... For those familiar with BaselII
... Describe what is the series, the sub-pneumonics
... confidentiality of data
... So the variable level metadata
... There are a number of ways to search
... Can type in "total assets"
... But I'm going to do look-up with MDRM number
... total assets is a popular term
... Used on data collections
... So then we have different ways to drill down
... See all the series with total assets
... and there is a description
... get into the nitty gritty descriptions
... there are differences with total assest on bank, mortgage company
... So we detailed these differences
... and the distinctions between industries I should take into account
... So while I'm out here
... I'll talk about
... the central data repository project
... Early someone asked about CDR familiarity
... May I see a show of hands?

[about five go up]

scribe: A few years ago
... Some folks from FDIC, OCC, FedRes got together
... and started a project to collect data using XBRL
... decided to use MDRM as basis for the taxonomy
... Banks were used to seeing the MDRM numbers
... It was designed to be semantic for economists and individuals
... and translated nicely for semantic for the Web
... Show you the CDR Web site
... So this is the main portal for banks
... for CDR
... Most banks use vendors who have created software
... They download the taxonomies
... which change yearly and more lately quarterly
... Vendors go out and download the taxonomy
... and import the taxonomy into their software

<dsr> http://cdr.ffiec.gov/public/default.aspx (I think)

scribe: This is one of the largest industry advances
... Used to be vendors got MSWord docs or Excel spreadsheets
... And people had to manually read through the docs
... So the download functionality includes the edits
... Vendors can import into their software and give it to the banks
... So once we receive it
... Once regulatory agencies receive daat

s/data

scribe: we then make available to general public
... So you can see if I had put in Huntington
... you can see four or five banks
... Click on which period you want
... Here is the actual call report filed by Huntington Nat'l bank
... some is confidential data
... most is public
... Banks don't send data pretty like this
... We get an instance document with metadata behind the scenes
... Because it is so well formatted and documented
... We can go in and create a document
... We can also present in a variety of ways
... Just by changing the XBRL presentation
... This is driven by the MDRM numbers
... So that's the demo on MDRM
... I have been speaking about MDRM, and other metadata repositories
... The end users don't want to go to three repositories
... They want it easily and in one place
... So why did we create a vendor data repository?
... Because we buy such a massive quantity of data from vendors
... It was too hard to store in MDRM
... One of best features of MDRM is also a complaint
... Because it forces Rules
... you cannot call assets something other than 2170
... In long run good for end users
... but causes a bottleneck in the beginning
... Collection level data we implemented in 2004
... Users on day one said, "Great, this is all I need"
... then next day, said "I want more"
... So we decided to give them more
... We decided to look at the int'l standards
... Dance is data and news catalogue
... So we looked at Int'l standards
... All three meta data repositories were created for a reason
... Here is the MDRM Schema
... I'm going to talk about the DANCE application
... We went through and looked at int'l standards
... For collection level we went to Dublin Core
... They had robust collection level data
... Worked nicely for DANCE
... original variables plus variables we added
... Then we looked at vendor metadata repository
... Then we looked at XBRL
... designed for financial reporting
... So here were the original variables in black
... In the vendor metadata repository
... yellow based on our review of XBRL
... We did something similar with the MDRM
... Over time we will incorporate more of the XBRL and Dublin Core variables into the MDRM
... What I'd like to show here
... is within the vendor metadata repository
... we have a table for the FDRB name
... and the Dublin core name, and XBRL name
... Fed publishes other data
... SDMX element name
... DDI
... Another int'l metadata protocol
... focused on social sciences data
... The Fed is interested in things like GDP
... number of cars produced
... For every element in vendor metadata schema
... we wanted to tie it back to what it's comparable to in the regulatory data
... So we added this table
... to tie back programmatically
... We can develop interactive systems so users can get the data
... 2170 on MDRM and something else on Bloomberg data set
... Here are my concluding thoughts
... A lot of people talk about importance of metadata for discovery data
... But in addition to discovering data
... It's important for understanding data
... Such as GAP accounting rules
... talk about specific distinctions
... I found review of int'l standards for metadata to be very useful
... Getting a breadth of knowledge
... and depth of topics, material, data types
... that you cannot get on your own
... So not me in my office trying to figure it out all
... in 2004 when we first did our data catalogue
... I got hundreds of peoples' ideas by using int'l standards
... Using a nomenclature that spans data collections is important
... Many different collections of data: thifts, credit unions
... What's reported for credit unions may not be applicable to banks
... but some overlap
... So if you give some concepts same name
... it is very helpful to end user
... they know right away it's the same concept for total assets for example

Thank you

Diane: Any questions?

Ms. Shaw, FDIC

scribe: Are you clarvoyant?
... Are you seeing Fed requiring

Linda: No
... When we reach point for int'l standards
... that knowing difference between them is important

Ms Shaw: Good disclaimer

Roger: I wonder about design of data coming into FDIC
... When Walter Hamscher was speaking about data coming into FDIC
... my understanding is you have a one-size fits all
... wonder you thoughts on design

<Otto2> (Note: question from Roger Debreceny

Linda: We have designed our data collection process
... and getting it across entire industry
... We have regulators who go out into the fields

<Otto2> Shidler College of Business

<Otto2> University of Hawaii at Manoa

Linda: And that's where they will get information about an institution having something unique
... like toxic assets
... Don't know if there are thoughts about collecting that
... Banks don't want to tell us if they have something toxic
... that gets discovered during supervision process
... I don't know if SEC has examiners that go out
... I think they rely on accounting firms
... Is that correct?

?: Yes we do have examiners

Linda: different types of toxic assets are captured through examination process
... not the reporting process
... Would be interesting to see how useful

Matt, IBM

scribe: on input and external models
... dimentions were not present
... In taxonomy and models, is there intention to make more dimentionally oriented

Linda: I'm not sure what you mean by dimensions

Matt: you need to learn the table explicitly

<Otto2> Mike Rowling, IB<

Matt: I'm looking for explicit use of metadata

<Otto2> IBM

Matt: areas of exploration without having to know the model
... a general XBRL tool, or learn the model?

Linda: No one wants to learn the model
... So we have created different vies

s/views

scribe: and a front end to discover and review the data

Diane: Thank you Linda
... Lunch is half hour break
... you can bring them back
... next half hour
... If you heard things you want to call out
... Please add comments to the white pads
... then into the afternoon sessions

<dsr> scribe: dsr

Documents should be stored at dependable URLs (slide 5)

Being able to click on the rendering (slide 6) and see the source data

Daniel: I came to this from work on Legislative XML.

The use of human readable, yet machine processable data.

(Slide 7)

The data could be linked to (citable) with permanent, dependable URIs

Today a high percentagle of legislation is drafted this way.

I went to a meeting where Diane introduced me to XBRL (slide 8)

Could we tag the financial data?

Lawyers need what you see is what you get, so InlineXBRL looks appealing in that regard.

If we get this right, we can track from the OMB through the agences to the recipients.

We haven't got there yet, but this is the direction we are moving in.

Slide 12 describes some of the considerations involved

Because of the URIs, users will be able follow the links all the way back.

Daniel prepares to show a movie, which unfortunately can't be linked from the minutes.

He encourages people to get involved (slide 15)

and build a path to trustworthy data!

The movie features several key people from the SEC explaining the opportunities for using tagged linked data.

Question: XBRL is a global standard, but there is a lack of coordination on legislative XML across the USA.

why?

<Karen> JH Snider, iSolon: Emphasizes importance of global standards

<Karen> Daniel: Joe Carmel is not here, I'll try my best to answer

<Karen> ...In 2001 we talked about issue of states, Senate, House, NARA, GPO

<Karen> ...we all had a vision of possibility to do this

<Karen> ...the people who understood legislation thought it was too big to get done

<Karen> ...XBRL has dealt with those issues

<Karen> ...XBRL's metalevel makes it easier to do, to build in rules

<Karen> ...When people talk about general ledger stuff

<Karen> ...it's about passing data

<Karen> ...but not so much validating it in the open

<Karen> ...But that has changed

<Karen> ...9-10 years ago, we hadn't gotten to that point

<Karen> ...So now XBRL allows you to layer in other standards

<Karen> ...Have your own taxonomy for how committees are set up

<Karen> ...and then build standards around those ting

<Karen> s/thing

<Karen> ...and go down to the municple layer

<Karen> ...Look to the future; doing bond reporting and use EMMA

<Karen> JH Snider: It's more compelling if it's 40,000 legislatures, not just one

<Karen> Daniel: I missed an important slide

<Karen> ...About laws, rules and regulations

(slide 14)

<Karen> ...Users must evaluate the current laws and regs

<Karen> ...In other words, because they have not come up with standards

<Karen> ...all of the data is suspect

<Karen> ...you have to take it back

<Karen> ...you cannot trust it

<Karen> ...When you build systems, you need, business, legal, and tech layers

<Karen> ...Until laws and regs are done in a standard way

<Karen> ...at least with citations

<Karen> ...the ability to do citations is doomed

<Karen> ...Code is law; law is code is point we are at

<Karen> Walter Hamscher: Does legislative XML

<Karen> ...propose a universal naming scheme for legislation?

<Karen> ...a unique identifier for the fragments

<Karen> Daniel: Yes, citations should be URLs with

<Karen> ...identifiers

<Karen> ...They are unique; more browsers are getting X pointers

<Karen> Walter: So you mentioned different versions

<Karen> ...is there a canonicalization of those names

<Karen> ...the official, the original

<Karen> Daniel: You hit the point on the head

<Karen> ...you know how to do in printed material

<Karen> ...If someone quotes the law, but no link back to it

<Karen> ...it's a morass

<Karen> ...that's a key point

<Karen> ...every aspect, including financial data

<Karen> ...that should be citable to that instance

<Karen> Walter: Would that go back to others like Lexis Nexis

<Karen> Daniel: We all produce silos

<Karen> ...interoperability can be done down the line if standards are used

<Karen> Walter: Do you have an example of URIs for legislation

<Karen> Daniel: We have not worked that out

<Karen> ...Web site called Legislink.org

<Karen> ...LOC created the Handel system

<Karen> ...use XPath into XML versions

<Karen> ...we are trying to work it out

<Karen> ...working with Tom Bruce

<Karen> Walter: Start small, with the EDGAR Filer manual

<Karen> [laugher]

<Karen> Daniel: Let's talks

<Karen> s/talk

<Karen> Diane: This morning was about the "What is"

<Karen> This afternoon we are starting to draw out the "What's missing"

<Karen> ...Daniel referenced the missing of citations from legal documents

<Karen> ...Next we have Cate Long from Mutiple-Markets

<Karen> ...and the head of an open source project called Risky

<Karen> Cate: Good afternoon

<Karen> ...I would like to share information about SEC's mandate for credit rating agencies

<Karen> ...I would like to thank Diane and Dave, FDIC, W3C and XBRL for hosting event

<Karen> ...I'm learning a lot and hope you are, too

<Karen> ...Like to give a general overview of the credit markets

<Karen> ...Might be helpful to share background information

<Karen> ...Ratings are opinions expressed by credit rating organizations

<Karen> ...These organizations have been in news lately

<Karen> ...Looking at these more carefully

<Karen> ...A number of investor groups were looking at rating agencies

<Karen> ...due to mis-priced risk

<Karen> ...Ratings are opinions

<Karen> ...In the last crisis, they were spectacularly wrong

<Karen> ...They are embedded in laws in US and int'l

<Karen> ...Generally ratings express the risk of default only

<Karen> ...that it would default

<Karen> ...The fixed income market

<Karen> ...goes by a number of names

<Karen> ...the bond or debt or credit markets

<Karen> ...all refer to this large market

<Karen> ...Used by gov'ts, corporations, financial institutions to raise funds

<Karen> ...Put on balance sheets of banks, pensions, mutual funds

<Karen> ...Relative size of market

(slide 5)

<Karen> ...US debt issuance

<Karen> (slide

<Karen> ...These numbers are down from peak in 2007

<Karen> ...Bond market has declined, but still an enormous market

<Karen> ...A bond is a different type of security than a stock

<Karen> ...issued for a fixed period of time usually

<Karen> ...the issuer agrees to pay the investor a fixed value at a future date

<Karen> ...and to pay investor the amount of the face value of the bond at a future date

<Karen> ...Underwriters are the investment banks

<Karen> ...they match the issuer with the buyers

<Karen> ...Like JPMorgan Chase, Merrill Lynch

<Karen> ...they look at credit markets, current conditions for issuance

<Karen> ...depending upon where in credit cycle

<Karen> ...Look at how far out to put the paper, long or short term

<Karen> ...and the yield

<Karen> ...Credit agencies are brought in at this point

<Karen> ...They create their opnion on the credit worthiness of the issuer

<Karen> ...This is important part of process

<Karen> ...Debt syndication connects buyers and sellers

<Karen> ...There is high demand for debt

<Karen> ...Particularly good paper

<Karen> ...It's an institutional process

<Karen> ...REtail investors tend to pick up bonds in odd lots

<Karen> ...90 percent of bonds are held to maturity

<Karen> ...Tend to go off balance sheets around credit event

<Karen> ...good paper will be bought by II and held to maturity

<Karen> ...Investors tend to be big institutions

<Karen> ...Many rated products out there

<Karen> [slide shows types of bonds]

<Karen> ...The process of credit agency and underwriter coming together

<Karen> ...So an example is Ford Credit

<Karen> ...They issued a spread over a Treasury Bond

<Karen> ...Ford has weak credit

<Karen> ...They paid 8.7 percent

<Karen> ...Lowest ratings

<Karen> ...Weak issuers can go to market

<Karen> ...Ask if you have questions

<Karen> ...You probably know these names from recent media

<Karen> ...Moodys, Standard & Poor's who issue almost 90 percent

<Karen> ...So legislative focus on this oligopolgy

<Karen> s/oligopoly

<Karen> ...They are forward looking

<Karen> ...Going back to Ford Credit, a triple C, weak credit

<Karen> ...If Walmart or Microsoft issued bonds

<Karen> ...they have strong balance sheets

<Karen> ...Microsoft is a double A name

<Karen> ....so it gives you the relative risk of owning securities

<Karen> ...and how much return you should get for owning that risk

<Karen> ...If you own Ford Credit, you should get a lot of yield

<Karen> ...because it's possible they won't pay you back

<Karen> ...We take those ratings and aggregate them on a broad, quantitative basis

<Karen> ...We get default statistics

<Karen> ...Some private and gov't entities

<Karen> ...have defaulted on their obligations

<Karen> ...Even high-rated issuers will default

<Karen> ...That points to capital or liquidity structure

<Karen> ...It's not a magic formula

<Karen> ...Both Lehman, Bear Stearns and AIG were rated "A" at time of collapse

<Karen> ...That's important

<Karen> ...An "A" rated doesn't mean it won't ever default

<Karen> ...But SEC and bond markets want to understand the risk of default

<Karen> ...So we went back to look at the data

<Karen> ...And used that looking forward

<Karen> ...to determine probability

<Karen> ...by extension you can look at rating agencies

<Karen> ...and likelihood of default

<Karen> ...Here is two sets of default stats

<Karen> ...from Moody's and S&P

<Karen> ...Look to single B, a low rating

<Karen> ...the risk of default for Moody's was 1.3 percent

<Karen> ...and S&P was 2 percent

<Karen> ...though comparable scales, the default statistics vary

<Karen> ...and these differences are big in the bond markets

<Karen> ...Ratings are useful for investors to understand risk

<Karen> ...but not fixed

<Karen> ...So how do SEC and Congress legislate usefulness and standardization

<Karen> ...in this space?

<Karen> ...It is complicated

<Karen> ...there are some missing pieces

<Karen> ...In 2006 after many hearings

<Karen> ...Congress passed the Credit Rating Reform Act of 2006

<Karen> ...Require reporitng of default statistics

<Karen> ...SEC adopts rules for "performance statistics"

<Karen> ...Agencies needed to publish default statistics on their Web site

<Karen> ...SEC went further

<Karen> ...and proposed that agencies expose individual data

<Karen> ...Lehman was rated single A

<Karen> ...up until time it went bankrupt

<Karen> ...What SEC is doing with new rule

<Karen> ...Is to require agencies to expose their ratings

<Karen> ...so we can compare how the ratings agencies exposed risk over time

<Karen> ...It helps us to evaluate the accuracy and performance

<Karen> ...of various rating firms

<Karen> ...So this new SEC rule, adopted in Sept.

<Karen> ...Ratings firms get paid to rate issuers

<Karen> ...They are going to have to expose all their paid ratings

<Karen> ...in XBRL on their Web site, one year after they have done it

<Karen> ...There is also another group of ratings agencies

<Karen> ...that don't get paid

<Karen> ...SEC gave them two years

<Karen> ...to expose to public in XBRL

<Karen> ...Not sure if you published XBRL tags yet

<Karen> ...Until tags are adopted, agencies can publish data in any format

<Karen> ...I see David shaking head yes

<Karen> ...So for public, academics, journalists

<Karen> ...we can begin to mash-up data

<Karen> ...Researchers have taken default rates by industry groups by time

<Karen> ...Hotel gaming industry is cyclical

<Karen> ...On a macro basis, start taking credit ratings and mash them up with GDP, growth rates

<Karen> ...authors wanted to make point of other countries' asset exposure in US

<Karen> ...Many things we can do with XBRL in the financial markets

<Karen> ...The financial markets are different from banking space

<Karen> ...As part of looking at XBRL, and looking to knit them together

<Karen> ...Electronic trading standard is FIX

<Karen> ...FpML is mark-up language for

<Karen> ?

<Karen> ...SWIFT

<Karen> ...ISO 20222

<Karen> ...Because of my work on the Hill

<Karen> ...There is a pending bill to make XBRL the standard for disclosure to the US government

(FpML is a standard for swaps, derivatives and structured products)

<Karen> ...The Netherlands and Australia are doing this

<Karen> Thank you

<Karen> Diane: Open up to questions

<Karen> ...What's missing is taxonomies and tags

<Karen> ...Standard business reporting

<Karen> Ben H: When credit agencies report

<Karen> ...on individual success or failure

<Karen> ...When do they have to exercise more due dilligence

<Karen> ...and look at the transactions beneath the financial statements

<Karen> ...The SEC has been rule writing in the structured finance area

<Karen> ...There is now in the Senate

<Karen> ...and House a fight about liability

<Karen> ...if agencies don't look further and do more due dilligence

<Karen> ...Fight over how much

<Karen> Ben: Will they require some XML based, vouchable system

<Karen> ...on the companies they report on

<Karen> Cate: The services provide them with data

<Karen> ...unlikely to do wholesale

<Karen> ...Investors and credit rating agencies looking at

<Karen> ...encourage more analysis

<Karen> ...not just their own

<Karen> WalterH: When rating agencies publish a set of ratings per company

<Karen> ...they have their own numbered schemes

<Karen> ...SEC publishes its data

<Karen> ...Is there any chance NRSRO require the CIK or some other identifier to be linked

<Karen> ...If not, who should maintain that concordance

<Karen> Cate: I have been encouraging open sourcing

<Karen> ...hard to create transparency in fixed income markets

<Karen> ...Is CIK system adequate?

<Karen> Walter: No

<Karen> Cate: Offline, a good project

<Karen> ...Deutsche exchange looking to do something

<Karen> Walter: Different agencies are limited to what info they can ask for

<Karen> ...We cannot publish our concordance

<Karen> ...it has to happen somewhere else

<Karen> Cate: That may explain why you have not published the tags

<Karen> Cate: Yes, I just wanted to flush that issue out

<Karen> Walter: Yes, all the agencies must recognize that is an issue

<Karen> ...Require CIK in the data published

<Karen> Cate: Rating is issue-specific

<Karen> Walter: one to many mapping is better than nothing

<Karen> Cate: I sense a solution in this room and maybe we can find it

<Karen> RogerD: A similar question to Walter's

<Karen> ...I have been working with SEC's XBRL data

<Karen> ...I had to take public data

<Karen> ...and go back to private data

<Karen> .,..to pull out data points

<Karen> ...to mash together data

<Karen> ...Has to be a public policy reason

<Karen> ...A comment

<Karen> ...You were appropriately focused on performance rating

<Karen> ...Intention that each rating

<Karen> ...or modification must come out in public domain?

<Karen> ...What volume?

<Karen> Cate: A million plus

<Karen> ...700 thousand in large firms

<Karen> ...Every tranch has a rating

<Karen> ...top three, other seven

<Karen> ...1,000 to maybe 25,000

<Karen> ...the database size, cohort size; they roll forward

<Karen> ...Let me go back to the public identifier

<Karen> ...We have stock symbols

<Karen> ...used openly

<Karen> ...equity market information is much higer

<Karen> ...We need to find a better system

<Karen> Diane: That would be good question for break-out

<Karen> Ariel Blumencjweg: The information you collect for ratings

<Karen> ...most people don't pay that much attention to it

<Karen> ...the first rating issue has been in terms of analyzing credit information

<Karen> ...capturing capital structure information

<Karen> ...I wondered if XBRL community had thought about

<Karen> ...extending the standards to the fixed income side

<Karen> ...or the balance sheet side of the companies

<Karen> ...One of the things going into the ?

<Karen> ...senior secure

<Karen> ...senior debt

<Karen> ...that should be fairly limited extension

<Karen> ...of a label system

<Karen> ...and not go into the unique identifiers for every security

<Karen> Cate: we need an open, common shared way of sharing data

<Karen> Ariel: There is an initiative in the asset back securities space

<Karen> ...to create a data base for low level data

<Karen> ...Industry has managed to make it a closed system

<Karen> Diane: Thank you all for participation

<Karen> Diane: Set up for panel

<Karen> Diane: Broad topic of meta data access

<Karen> ...Like us to think about lessons learned from implementations

<Karen> ...what are best practices

<Karen> ...and what can we learn from each other

<Karen> ...many are done in various places

<Karen> ...I was happy to hear Cate talk about the concept of mashing up the data

<Karen> ...make links between these different sets of data

<Karen> ...Issues around lots of industry standards

<Karen> ...and how do we harmonize

<Karen> ...Like to start off with Dennis Newcomber with XBRL II best practices international board

<Karen> ...Also invite you to participate in questions

<Karen> ...From XII perspective, what are the best practices

<Karen> ...to XBRL content online beyond US?

<Karen> Dennis: Beyond US Gap project

<Otto2> Dennis Newcomer

<Karen> ...Let me point out, that XII cannot force people to disclose data publicly

<Otto2> speaking on US GAAP

<Karen> ...First we have a process

<Karen> ...and post on XII Web site

<Karen> ...So you can go look at actual taxonomies and supporting documentation

<Karen> ...We have a collaborative environment

<Karen> ...Generated by a team of volunteers

<Karen> ...publicly available

<Karen> ...that's about it

<Karen> Kevin Webb, Sunlight Labs

<Karen> ...outsider perspective

<Karen> ...like eCitizens

<Karen> ...One of things we were discussing

<Karen> ...are challenges around identification and disambiguation

<Karen> ...how are we talking about the same identities

<Karen> Kevin: At Sunlight Foundation, looking at Fed spending data

<Karen> ...it's a stumbling block

<Karen> ...not enough agreement

<Karen> ...in terms of spending

<Karen> ...hard to know where it went, what the purpose was

<Karen> ...It's a hard problem

<Karen> ...As we start to build cross-government data systems

<Karen> ...we have to look at how we build

<Karen> ...I have looked at FedRes work and FDIC

<Karen> ...best work for building hierarchies

<Karen> ...Within Federal spending, not really

<Karen> ...often hand off to private industry

<Karen> ...We need to come back to that decision

<Karen> Diane: With that outsider's perspective

<Karen> ...some of finacial content can appear daunting, or be mis-understood

<Karen> ...There are some lessons from the Recovery.gov

<Karen> ...some of complexity is unavoidable

<Karen> ...but more needs to be done to make it understandable

<Karen> ...for citizens

<Karen> ...What's missing? What else needs to be done?

<Karen> Kevin: The way Federal budget processes works

<Karen> ...is a complicated term

<Karen> ...even people in private sector don't understand appropriations and budgeting processes

<Karen> ...what states things are at

<Karen> ...and how decisions play out

<Karen> ...We have a team of journalists looking to translate this

<Karen> ...but I haven't seen an interpretive layer on Recovery.gov side

<Karen> Diane: Daniel, the OBM, GTO, what's your perspective on making this more accessible?

<Karen> Daniel: There was a study recently

<Karen> ...for how people can get info on the Internet

<Karen> ...There are two pieces: the architectural problem

<Karen> ...every piece of data should be at a URL

<Karen> ...and it should be structured so it can be consumed

<Karen> ...and it should be human readable

<Karen> ...Then get to other part of real people and their lives

<Karen> ...When you create better data

<Karen> ...at URLs, well architected

<Karen> ...People will build the apps into Twitter

<Karen> ...So the more, better structured data you have

<Karen> ...you can grab the stuff

<Karen> ...But if you document it, there can be translation tools

<Karen> Diane: You mentioned investigative journalism

<Karen> ...It is more important to get good information

<Karen> ...but there is a challenge of authentication of sources

<Karen> ...citations, etc.

<Karen> Daniel: I like talking about trust

<Karen> ...if you have dependable URLs, and good structured information

<Karen> ...people love SQL data bases

<Karen> ...but what they are not doing is putting it out as a document

<Karen> ...and it's well documented, and easy-to-find URL

<Karen> ...that's citation, the ability to cite things

<Karen> ...Vision of Tim Berners-Lee, but we're still talking about it

<Karen> ...If we understand and move forward

<Karen> ...We go to SEC.gov

<Karen> ...we know it's put out by SEC

<Karen> ...so we can trust the domains

<Karen> ...If people grab that, they should always bring the link back to the original data

<Karen> ...so they can always go back

<Karen> Diane: Daniel brought up concept of citing down to the cell

<Karen> ...logistics of access to financial data

<Karen> ...We learned it's not enough to make the data available

<Karen> ...need infrastructure

<Karen> ...What do you see as roadblocks to eco-system?

<Karen> Walter: Challenge to answer that

<Karen> ...people don't experience data except through an applicatoin

<Karen> ...so it really doesn't matter how good the data is

<Karen> ...and I'm surprised how simple that access has to be

<Karen> ...The XBRL data on the SEC Web site

<Karen> ...different types of data

<Karen> ...valuable stuff in one header

<Karen> ...find pointer to document you want

<Karen> ...I want to say that vendors and software developers

<Karen> ...who want to get into XBRL

<Karen> ...You can set sights lower and add value

<Karen> ...No need to take on a big problem

<Karen> ...If you want to publish and equivalents class

<Otto2> (SGML header to EDGAR filing has good content without even digging inside)

<Karen> ...Take impaired inventory

<Karen> ...You need an equivalence table

<Karen> ...for compared inventory

<Karen> ...and a given time period

<Karen> ...takes some accounting knowledge and analysis

<Karen> ...a translation table is quite valuable

<Karen> ...Doesn't have to be huge

<Karen> ...Set sights lower

<Karen> ...drill into that data and provide the mapping

<Karen> ...Prepared inventories for example

<Karen> ...Go into a financial statement

<Karen> ...revenue recognition

<Karen> ...executive compensation

<Karen> ...Think about the application

<Karen> ...the end to end

<Karen> ...so it fits into somebody's spread sheet

<Karen> ...Focus on that application

<Karen> Dave: I would add something

<Karen> ...Private sector is in a better position to make the data accessible

<Karen> ...Short of rethinking EDGAR

<Karen> ...private vendors have a lot more flexibility

<Karen> ...where they can link to

<Karen> ...A company might harvest files

<Karen> ...and provide links back to original company

<Karen> ...The SEC cannot do

<Karen> ...We have also seen

<Karen> ...and become aware of some really interesting ways to present the data

<Karen> ...Not just a question of accessing the data

<Karen> ...but how you want to work with it

<Karen> ...Visualization tools

<Karen> ...Combined with other social data

<Karen> ...Over time, trusted companies will provide

<Karen> ...take taht same data and present it with tols

<Karen> ...and ways to manipulate it

<Karen> ...SEC is not providing for the average investor

<Karen> Diane: Where are you in understanidng governemnt funding

<Karen> ...for the developoment of these tools?]

<Karen> ...Where to deploy resources

<Karen> Daniel: It's vital that governments publish data in simple formts

<Karen> s/formats

<Karen> ...Just by putting it out there, it can be used in real time

<Karen> ...ways to access

<Karen> ...then it's available for value-add

<Karen> ...The issue is the gov't needs to put out the data

<Karen> ...Then the vendors or non-profits play with it

<Karen> ...everyone can mash-up the data

<Karen> ...That is an important governemnt function

<Karen> s/government

<Karen> [] The data we want to see is the data from system of record

<Karen> ...What we get is from USA spending

<Karen> ...second class citizens

<Karen> ...some of data is rife with errors

<Karen> ...have to ask what if we had access to original data

<Karen> Daniel: Having URLs is crucial

<Karen> ...For example elections

<Karen> ...FEC has information about elections

<Karen> ...Go to Web site

<Karen> ...and check into information about 17th Congressional district

<Karen> ...but that information is a proprietary .com

<Karen> ...You can create URIs that are not truly URLs

<Karen> ...Gov't can product good URLs for metadata

<Karen> Diane: You are repeating

<Karen> ...NIEM and NIST have rich metadata behind the firewall

<Karen> ...The White House visitor data log is now public

<Karen> ...I traced the URL to a CSV file

<Karen> ...and I looked at SEC site

<Karen> ...for visitors

<Karen> ...and this is beginning of trying to do mash-ups

<Karen> ...There is a lot of extrapolating

<Karen> ...I won't discourage anyone from putting raw data out there

<Karen> ...But what's missing is good strong meta planners

<Karen> ...There is the contest, Apps for America

<Karen> ..Wonder if we can do more to let people know data is out there

<Karen> Kevin: We discover where weaknesses are with public scrutiny

<Karen> ...public sector may not know how bad it is

<Karen> ...Contract data; cannot understand where the money is going

<Karen> ...Until gov'ts know people are looking at them

<Karen> ...then it becomes a communal effort to fix it

<Karen> Diane: I'd like to open it up

<Karen> Jim Snider, iSolon: Question for Kevin

<Karen> ...What is the appropriate level of government

<Karen> ...to solve the URI

<Karen> ...inter, intra-agency

<Karen> ...rather than a government wide problem

<Karen> ...other data bases aren't just XBRL

<Karen> ...agencies

<Karen> ...I know there was a proposal for identifier practices across government

<Karen> ...Should this be at the macro level?

<Karen> ...or within communities?

<Karen> Kevin: I think people who look at it day-to-day can speak to it differently

<Karen> ...This is a fundamental problem that we have to solve

<Karen> ...cuts across all of it

<Karen> ...Whether private sector transparency

<Karen> ...or gov't oversight

<Karen> ...and you have been stymied for decades

<Karen> ...it cuts across the ability to build great systems

<Karen> ...I think the government needs to step up and recognize this

<Karen> ...Another area is CUSIPS

<Karen> ...too much control for private industry

<Karen> ...government has to step up to role

<Karen> ...digital naming

<Karen> David: I don't think that the highest levels

<Karen> ...of various gov't agencies

<Karen> ...recognize the nature of this problem

<Karen> ...and the importance of providing information

<Karen> ...It would need to become a priority of Congress or OMB

<Karen> ...someone would need to require it,

<Karen> ...put in place a plan, and fund it

<Karen> Jim: So this is a larger problem than XBRL community

<Karen> Daniel: It's easily solvable today

<Karen> ...Use Web standards

<Karen> ...Cool URIs

<Karen> ...ISBN

<Karen> ...By creating a URL you are naming an object

<Karen> ...Cool URIs

<Karen> ...Then you have done that

<Karen> ...and track translation tables between systems

<Karen> ...www.ibm.com can be linked to SIK

<Karen> ...if there is a URL for that

<Karen> ...whatever internal number, just append the domain

<Karen> ...great for metadata

<Karen> Dave: I didn't mean to say it's a technical problem

<Karen> ...It's a matter of making it a priority

<Karen> ...Set aside the money, time and staff to make it happen

<Karen> Walter: I see it as a lot of small, binary efforts

<Karen> ...some people see it as the Second Coming

<Karen> Kevin: Less a technical issue than ownership

<Karen> Kevin: We have a naming standard

<Karen> ...but get to issue of rights

<Karen> ...at government level

<Karen> DavidN: This is a common problem in large companies

<Karen> [?] Issue of naming is core

<Karen> ...Semantic Web provides technology solutions

<Karen> ...but power to name is power to control

<Karen> ...so legal issues

<Karen> ...privatization

<Karen> ...so there may not be correct paradigms

<Karen> ...think about digital paradigms

<Karen> ...at eCitizen Foundation we held workshops on names

<Karen> ...Universities and vendors should get together

<Karen> ...Organize a top-level commission

<Karen> ...to look at a next-generation naming scheme

<Karen> ...take into account states

<Karen> ...put request forward to the Obama Administration...we hope you will come to next identity workshop

<Karen> Patrick Slattery, Deloitte: same disclaimer

<Karen> ...good deal of complexity, some risk

<Karen> ...I cannot see a private organ take on risk without monetary

<Karen> ...proposal just made is right way to go

<Karen> Diane: So we have identified that identity is one of roadblocks

<Karen> ...to a Semantic Web financial system

<Karen> Walter: I don't see roadblocks

<Karen> ...Hard work has been done

<Karen> ...Getting the SEC to mandate this for public companies is an important step forward

<Karen> ...The idea that everything we get

<Karen> ...that comes back out in one format

<Karen> ...is a tremendous thing

<Karen> ...building tools and applications to take advantage of that data

<Karen> ...is important

<Karen> ...I have to emphasize it happens bottom up not top down

<Karen> ...in a localized fashioned

<Karen> ...like impaired inventory

<Karen> ...they don't need the entire mass of it

<Karen> ...Think in terms of smaller applications

<Karen> ...things that can delier data into Excel

<Karen> ...Income tax notes

<Karen> ...huge potential value not being put there

<Karen> ...They get fascinated with the taxonomy

<Karen> ...but lose site of the data

<Karen> ...you get the idea

<Karen> Diane: People create the mappings

<Karen> ...so sharing of that

<Karen> ...so mappings can be reused

<Karen> ...Have them publicly available

<Karen> ...Is there a role for XBRL II to host or vet?

<Karen> Walter: Yes

<Karen> Diane: other industry sectors that have addressed these problems?

<Karen> Daniel: I just want to touch on financial systems

<Karen> ...you should apply BLT

<Karen> ...business, legal, and technology layer

<Karen> ...where SEC says there is no way to acknowledge the law definitive way

<Karen> ...a system for legal implications for how you do stuff with money

<Karen> ...other stuff has to get done

<Karen> ...Wikipedia has been a great experiment

<Karen> ...eCitizen has been looking at crowd sourcing dispute resolution

<Karen> ...when it comes to taxonomies

<Karen> invite rrsagent

<Karen> invite rrsagent #xbrl

<Karen> Diane: And tools for collaborating on taxonomies

<Karen> Walter: A lot of public companies have wikipedia pages

<Karen> Diane: Other questions? Thank our speakers

<Karen> Diane: Invite next speaker

<Karen> ...Dan Schutzer, FSTC not hear

<Karen> Next speaker is Haksu Kim, Thomson-Reuters

<Karen> Speaker: Haksu Kim

<Karen> ...We are working with documents in Korea and Japan

<Karen> ...Thomson Reuters went through merger

<Karen> ...We were dealing with various data

<Karen> ...show you some of the areas

<Karen> ...Two areas: Market division

<Karen> ...XBRL is fast, accurate, cheap, and scalable

<Karen> ...we can analyze, model, and trade data

<Karen> ...Making data at a competitive price is a challenge

<Karen> ...cost conscious production facility

<Karen> ...XBRL came into our life at the right time

<Karen> ...Benefits us

<Karen> ...Intermet based; exchange

<Karen> ...XBRL is more convenient than CSV files

<Karen> ...better automation

<Karen> ...Internally looking at XBRL

<Karen> ...process is simple

<Karen> ...document comes from market, we put internal ids

<Karen> ...parse the data and feed data to internal users

<Karen> ...and then through product to customers

<Karen> ...We really take a small portion of XBRL technology

<Karen> ...comes down to a relational data base

<Karen> ...We have been talking about issue for some time

<Karen> ...Most difficult part was convincing management into this process

<Karen> ...Many of us were learning at the beginning

<Karen> ...We wantd to show what we could get through

<Karen> ...Feed the data into the process

<Karen> ...Those things sorted by priority

<Karen> ...Priority is less important than before

<Karen> ...Our experience is 2.3 seconds

<Karen> ...Once data is coming in, we store in temporary XBRL data base

<Karen> ...Then back out to CSV files

<Karen> ...We have taken full advantage of XBRL

<Karen> ...Not all data comes in XBRL format

<Karen> ...Had to go back to see what is missing

<Karen> ...Put original data into final database from which we serve our product

<Karen> ...We get about 80 percent of data points in XBRL

<Karen> ...the efficiencies we gained

<Karen> ...was about 20 percent

<Karen> ...We have more work to do to get to full automation

<Karen> ...Internally we could not execute so much internally

<Karen> ...So we hired outside

<Karen> ...Once data is coming out

<Karen> ...a couple communications we use

<Karen> ...Are media headlines

<Karen> ...This is now automated

<Karen> ...Our clients expect data feeds from us

<Karen> ...They feed it into their model

<Karen> ...Those are the basic processes we are taking

<Karen> ...Look at properties and benefits

<Karen> ...Accurate, cheap, scalable

<Karen> ...We used to have language concerns

<Karen> ...now XBRL is language neutral

<Karen> ...Automation is to make it cheaper

<Karen> ...Our plans are to invest in community

<Karen> ...We focus on financial data

<Karen> ...but are not limited to this

<Karen> ...also private company data

<Karen> ...Some challenges in uisng XBRL

<Karen> ...Not many countries are on board

<Karen> ...We get 95 percent of data from press releases

<Karen> ...XBRL is not full set of data

<Karen> ...Tokyo Stock Exchange was not ready to adopt

<Karen> ...they have been promising filings since January

<Karen> ...They were not ready to take on new taxonomy

<Karen> ...Some other challenges

<Karen> ...When there are two sets of data

<Karen> ...in one docuemnt

<Karen> s/document

<Karen> ...Legacy infrastructure isnot ready to the new technology

<Karen> ...Same tag used twice or three times

<Karen> ...Net income and income statement used in cash flow statement

<Karen> ...but considered same data

<Karen> ...Our system is not ready to take that

<Karen> ...We take CSV file and push it to that

<Karen> ...data need to be pushed twic

<Karen> ...how do you know which has been pushed more than once

<Karen> ...It's not easy

<Karen> ...Internally we can hire consultants, but we can only do so much

<Karen> ...We don't have internal resources to do that

<Karen> ...Other things are about storage of XBRL documents

<Karen> ...Our products are not ready to interface

<Karen> ...We talked about using our currency with XBRL

<Karen> ...So that's what we went through so far

<Karen> ...The filing itself is there

<Karen> ...It's the iceberg above the water

<Karen> ...But we're at primitive stage of using it

<Karen> ...The most valuable part

<Karen> ...even language is tough

<Karen> ...accounting standards is confusing

<Karen> ...when accounting standards differ

<Karen> Diane: Thank you

<Karen> ...you have drawn out some interesting points

<Karen> Roger: That was a fantastic presentation

<Karen> ...You are in a position to observe in the real world

<Karen> ...the export of many XBRL initiatives

<Karen> ...I got the impression

<Karen> ...that you are still taking these XBRL feeds and forcing them against your internal taxonomy

<Karen> ...Are you getting the benefit

<Karen> ...pushing information to users

<Karen> ...Did I hear you say that in US you get info from press releases?

<Karen> Haksu: Taxonomies

<Karen> ...we put our internal code

<Karen> ...we like to map in [?]

<Karen> ...when a company use base taxonomy

<Karen> ...we know what to do

<Karen> ...but we don't know what to do with extensions

<Karen> ...We put some logic to assign our code

<Karen> ...and meld them together

<Karen> ...Technology point of view

<Karen> ...Japan, they have one taxonomy

<Karen> ...industrial formats are shared

<Karen> ...but only CNI format

<Karen> ...Look at Korean format

<Karen> ...Elements not used in CNI, we had to map all those together

<Karen> ...Technical point of view

<Karen> ...We need to be prepared in advance

<Karen> ...When implemented...they will bring up these new issues

<Karen> ...Consistency challenge with implementations

<Karen> ...I did say 90 percent of data is from press releases in US

<Karen> ...We push data out immediately to our users

<Karen> ...We are leaders in the market

<Karen> ...Only those not available in PR, like 10K and 10Q

<Karen> ...better than two years ago, we now have a full income statement in the press release

<Karen> ...So US is a lower priority

<Karen> Diane: Thank you very much

<Karen> Diane: Coffee on the second floor

<Karen> ...be back at ten of four

<LeeF> Scribenick: LeeF

Serving the Investor Community (continued)

subtopic: "A pathway to improved fundamental financial analysis: The Singapore experience" by David Watson, WHK Horwath

Slides at http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/talks/David-Watson.pdf

David: present experience in Singapore providing interactive access to financial data
... strategy is to develop XBRL solutions to prepare for when Australia comes online next year
... Singapore mandated public & private companies to file in XBRL in Bovember 2007
... mandate based on transparency, better reporting, better business analytics

<Otto> ACRA is the Singapore regulator involved

David: recognised a need for systems to aggregate and analyze XBRL data
... worked with Singapore government to build Open Analytics
... launched less than 10 days ago
... Singapore mandated requirement for filing in XBRL but have not (until now) made the data available back to the public
... led to perception that XBRL was only a compliance cost, with no one else benefitting

slide 2

slide 3

David: strategic aim was to develop a solution that can be reused in Australia despite initial focus on Singapore

slide 4

David: immediacy goal - get analysis of new filing within 5 minutes
... today, analysis available as of midnight of the day a filing is made

slide 5

David: interface to Open Analytics ... premise is that you can search for company name or registration #
... searches all public & private companies that report to ACRA
... excludes only those co's that report to monetary regulatory agency (e.g. banks)
... Singapore doesn't have a requirement for privacy once data is lodged with the regulartory authority
... perform comparative assessment - compare a company against peers as per industry classification
... first thing available is basic report on filed financial data, augmented with some analyses (PDF report)
... looking at company's performance in isolation - 28 key ratios in 7 perspectives - profitability, liquidity, growth, capital mgmt, &c
... can drill in to learn how to interpret ratios
... can view trend analyses
... provide audit trail back to elements within Singapore XBRL taxonomy
... "industry analysis"
... scatterplot of revenue for hotels & restaurants filing in Singapore
... pick competitors to plot against one another
... in the past could purchase benchmark statistics from benchmark services
... solutions like this give more context as to whether this is meaningful - e.g. historical context

slide 7

slide 8

scribe: Singapore gov't back-processing non-xbrl bond data back to 2004
... strong positive feedback from press/journalists
... academic institutions: "gives us unprecedented access to local data"
... "analysis 1" - developed many years ago, XBRL compliant recently
... analysis 1 is a solution designed to allow consultants etc to add value based on XBRL
... xbrl acts as conduit to allow data to flow straight into analytical systems
... understand cash flows, what-if scenarios, - suite of analytic tools for engaging the client, XBRL makes this possible
... benefits to derive from xbrl mus tbe coupled with the costs of adhering to the standard
... in singapore, what to do with the data was an after thought
... better to ensure that there's not too much time delay before seeing tangential benefits
... close the feedback loop

Questioner1: Are you going back to 2004 to retroactively input XBRL data for companies?
... how?

David: Not sure

Questioner2: (1) Can you tell us a bit about the project undertaken to implement this? (2) how do you handle extensions?

David: (1) started at a conference, (???)
... (2) have not given much thought to the extensions

Diane: Is Open Analytics publicly available?

David: Was a requirement that the solution be affordable - it is pay per view
... what i've shown costs about $30 US dollars to access per year

Questioner3: how to compare companies with different fiscal years?

David: assumption that companies with year-end in same calendar year are comparable

Questioner4: For $30 you can access your competitors that are private, not just publicly traded information?

David: Yes

Questioner5: Do you have companies that operate in multiple segments? How is that handled for reporting and what-if?

David: 2 industry classification schemes - SSIC & SGX
... problem with SSIC is that tha majority of public companies have SSIC classification of "holding company"
... tried to provide another way of segmenting by using SGX (stock exchange / sectorial classification)

<BenjaminGrosof> please fix the broken link to Michelle's slides on the workshop program page

Diane: Next is panel discussion

Ashu Bhatnagar, Good Morning Research, Softpark - RDF tagging of XBRL documents

scribe: web site for sharing of financial tagging

Brian Broesder: focus on level 3 financial instruments

<Karen> Scribenick: Karen

<LeeF> Michelle Leder: footnoted.org

<LeeF> Diane: financial nuggets are embedded in text blocks

<LeeF> ... Ashu, you've enabled people annotating financial statements - how does that process work and what are some roadblocks to it?

<LeeF> Ashu: free site - goodmorningresearch.com - inspired by real-life experience at research firm

<LeeF> ... research analysts producing financial models

<LeeF> ... sales folks sharing insights with buyer side hedgefund clients et al.

<LeeF> ... insights were annotated to make info quickly available

<LeeF> ... in the firm, used Microsoft Sharepoint

<LeeF> ... another approach using other software - traders and analysts exchanged (electronic) notes (Tamale)

<LeeF> ... people should be able to comment on xbrl files rendered as a table

<LeeF> ... post comments, ratings, ...

<LeeF> ... hurdles are noise factor

<LeeF> ... lots of abuse if you open it to anyone

<LeeF> Michelle: site looks at things companies bury in their sec filings (footnoted.org)

<LeeF> (technical difficulties)

<LeeF> Diane: What is AOS? how do your tools help determine what's relevant & how do clients use that info?

<LeeF> Brian: Sophisticated institutional investors w/ unsophisticated tools

<LeeF> ... primary tool is Excel

<LeeF> ... difficult to look across a portfolio of securities

<LeeF> ... ability to click through multiple holdings and find risk, take action, etc.

<LeeF> ... we primarily deal with private securities

<LeeF> ... lots of disparate assets

<LeeF> ... try to find shared identifiers to identify common characteristics to look through a centralized platform to view complex financial instruments

<LeeF> ... pull out most relevant information from each type of asset

<LeeF> ... find overlap between asset classes

<LeeF> ... need a much more powerful database then Excel to do this

<LeeF> Diane: Where do you see XBRL fitting in?

<LeeF> Brian: I'm new to XBRL - we're going to figure out how we might use it

<LeeF> ... private security info is scattered across many formats

<LeeF> Diane: David, we see with wikiinvest, youtube-like tools, lots of re-use and linking back to authentic source - have you thought about how people can share analytics and link back to the source?

<LeeF> David: model we've put forth - version 1 in Singapore - is read-only

<LeeF> ... no save button, can't add commentary

<LeeF> ... no reason we couldn't do that down the track

<LeeF> ...being able to supplement with your own analysis is very powerful

<LeeF> Diane: how big was the team & project for Singapore?

<LeeF> David: developed Open Analytics in 3.5 months

<LeeF> Diane: what else can we do to make SEC filings more accessible?

<LeeF> Ashu: sold on integration of xbrl + semantic web technologies

<LeeF> ... Thompson Reuters Open Calais extract RDF from text - currently a standalone technology outside of the domain of XBRL

<LeeF> ... future is in integrating technologies to solve investment mgmt, asset mgmt problems

<GeoffShuetrim> ciao till tomorrow

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Found ScribeNick: LeeF
Found ScribeNick: Karen
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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Anthony Ariel Ashu Ben BenjaminGrosof Brian Cate Challenges Daniel Daniel_Bennett Dave David DavidN Dennis Diane GeoffShuetrim Haksu Jim Karen Kevin LeeF Linda Matt Michelle Moderator Otto Otto2 Questioner1 Questioner2 Questioner3 Questioner4 Questioner5 Roger RogerD Speaker Walter WalterH dsr dsr-ext joined left scribenick shuetrim subtopic tlr tlr_ xbrl
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy


WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 05 Oct 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/05-xbrl-minutes.html
People with action items: