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08:57:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-irc
08:57:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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08:57:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
08:57:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
08:57:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
08:57:26 <trackbot> Date: 30 September 2009
08:59:26 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0151.html
08:59:30 <raphael> Chair: Erik, Raphael
08:59:38 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
08:59:44 <Zakim> +raphael
08:59:49 <raphael> Regrets: Yves
09:00:11 <raphael> Present: Raphael, Erik, Michael, Silvia (irc only)
09:00:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:00:29 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
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09:03:22 <Zakim> +tmichel
09:03:27 <Zakim> +erik
09:03:35 <raphael> Present+ Thierry
09:04:20 <raphael> Present+ davy
09:04:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:07:16 <raphael> Scribe: Erik
09:07:20 <raphael> Scribenick: erik
09:07:27 <erik> 1.ADMIN
09:08:00 <erik> TOPIC: ADMIN
09:08:05 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html
09:08:22 <mhausenblas> +1
09:08:24 <davy> +1
09:08:28 <raphael> +1
09:08:29 <erik> +1
09:08:36 <silvia> +1
09:08:45 <erik> minutes from 23/09 accepted
09:09:02 <erik> close action-111
09:09:02 <trackbot> ACTION-111 Provide CVS access to conrad closed
09:09:24 <erik> TOPIC: UC and Requirements
09:09:49 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-reqs/
09:11:09 <erik> policy about contributors & editors as of decided in Barcelona F2F
09:12:18 <erik> everybody should check his/her affiliation
09:13:18 <erik> ACTIONS 105, 106, 113 ongoing by Raphael
09:13:56 <silvia> ACTION 113 has been finished
09:13:56 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 113
09:14:08 <erik> Raphael suggests section 6 to go to Annex
09:14:18 <raphael> yes silvia, thanks :-)
09:14:25 <mhausenblas> +1
09:14:28 <erik> +1
09:14:40 <davy> +1
09:14:51 <erik> close action-113
09:14:51 <trackbot> ACTION-113 Move "Side Conditions" section to requirements doc only closed
09:15:36 <silvia> I am not fussed about section 6 staying as section 6 or going into annex - either works
09:15:37 <erik> ACTION: Davy and Erik to review Raphael's documents
09:15:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-116 - And Erik to review Raphael's documents [on Davy Van Deursen - due 2009-10-07].
09:16:48 <erik> TOPIC: specification
09:17:08 <conrad> conrad has joined #mediafrag
09:17:09 <erik> close action-109
09:17:09 <trackbot> ACTION-109 And Davy to write a paragraph in the documents to explain why we don't include this feature in the spec (rationale) based on the group analysis (impact both req and spec documents) closed
09:17:10 <silvia> do we have a commit mailing list on the WDs?
09:17:23 <raphael> what do you mean by commit mailing list?
09:17:35 <silvia> for cvs commits on the WD documents
09:17:47 <silvia> they can be mailed out - it is done on all open source projects that I am active on
09:18:07 <raphael> you mean a change log section ?
09:18:36 <silvia> no, just every "cvs commit" creates an email with the commit message and the diff
09:18:54 <silvia> and it is sent out to the group of people working on the code/document
09:19:33 <silvia> helps heaps to stay updated on changes
09:19:36 <raphael> i'm not sure this is really useful, particularly since some people do just one commit with a lot of changes, and some others, a commit for every characters they change :-)
09:19:46 <Zakim> +??P8
09:19:52 <raphael> Silvia, any word about action-109?
09:20:00 <raphael> zakim, ??P8 is conrad
09:20:00 <Zakim> +conrad; got it
09:20:02 <silvia> yeah, I finished that, too :)
09:20:28 <raphael> ACTION-110?
09:20:28 <trackbot> ACTION-110 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to silvia to Draft a summary starting from her blog post and the 17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role of ? and #) -- due 2009-09-24 -- OPEN
09:20:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/110
09:20:41 <silvia> I finished that
09:20:51 <silvia> please feel free to review the changes I made
09:21:13 <silvia> raphael: it doesn't matter how many changes are being made - it is really useful - I know it from other projects
09:21:26 <erik> close action-110
09:21:27 <trackbot> ACTION-110 Silvia to Draft a summary starting from her blog post and the 17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role of ? and #) closed
09:21:29 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
09:21:29 <Zakim> conrad should now be muted
09:21:32 <silvia> but if that is not something W3C typically hook into the commit, then it's too hard
09:22:24 <erik> Action: troncy to review Silvia's summary of her blogpost
09:22:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Review Silvia's summary of her blogpost [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-10-07].
09:22:56 <erik> postpone discussion on URI-templates?
09:23:02 <raphael> I will actually review the whole section 3
09:23:03 <conrad> public commit logs tend to encourage people to commit at a useful frequency, ie. not too often or too infrequently
09:23:12 <raphael> We postpone the discussio on: "should we provide one or several URI templates in complement
09:23:12 <raphael> of the BNF syntax provided in the spec for the definition of Media
09:23:12 <raphael> Fragments URI?
09:23:16 <erik> rssagent, draft minutes
09:23:28 <raphael> ACTION-112?
09:23:28 <trackbot> ACTION-112 -- Raphaël Troncy to propose a digest of Conrad and current's proposal regarding the use of existing and custom headers for the communication UA server -- due 2009-09-25 -- OPEN
09:23:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/112
09:23:36 <erik> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:23:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html erik
09:23:52 <silvia> yes, I worked over the complete section 3, raphael
09:24:21 <erik> Raphael will work on Action-112 today as this is a blocking factor for publication
09:24:21 <raphael> my actions are still pending
09:24:51 <erik> TOPIC: Test Cases
09:25:10 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#fragment-dimensions
09:25:11 <erik> michael is updating test tool
09:25:23 <erik> michael's actions are still pending
09:26:38 <erik> Action: michael to come up with individual 'normal' test cases (+/- 20)
09:26:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Come up with individual 'normal' test cases (+/- 20) [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-10-07].
09:27:23 <mhausenblas> the TC overview could look like http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/implementation-report/
09:27:44 <erik> raphael wonders how test case doc will look like
09:29:38 <erik> michael ... table of test cases automatically generated
09:30:09 <erik> raphael ... after publication, implemetors can use this to test their implementation
09:30:33 <erik> regrets: Yves, Jack
09:30:49 <erik> TOPIC: implementations
09:30:49 <silvia> I would already use it in the html5 pages to make sure I cover all important test cases
09:31:07 <erik> davy ... updated MMLab's parser
09:31:16 <erik> ... can handle all the proposed time schemes
09:32:33 <erik> ... updated range headers (via two firefox add-ins to test)
09:33:06 <erik> ... would like to have players that can do that ...
09:33:35 <raphael> Are these 2 headers required: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/967 and https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3829? for inspecting headers request and response?
09:33:35 <erik> ... difficult to use content-range header
09:33:40 <conrad> davy: do you have an updated URL? http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.ogg is 404
09:33:59 <raphael> s/2 headers/2 add-ons
09:34:13 <erik> davy ... these are indeed the add-ons
09:35:52 <silvia> raphael: they are not required, but they help you work out what is going on
09:36:05 <silvia> you can also create the http headers through javascript
09:36:19 <conrad> the problem is that UAs do not understand time Content-Ranges
09:36:22 <silvia> I want to work on this as a demo with davy's server
09:36:39 <silvia> yeah, everything has to be emulated with javascript right now
09:36:56 <conrad> so we need to suggest that UAs display the "start-end/total" values appropriately, eg. in the seek bar
09:37:02 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
09:37:02 <Zakim> conrad should no longer be muted
09:37:17 <raphael> Davy points out that the instance-length in the content-range headers is ignored by the media player plugin
09:37:31 <raphael> Conrad: is it something we need to push to the browser vendors ?
09:38:44 <silvia> some of it
09:38:58 <erik> davy ... server implementation is allright, we just need players that support these extra headers
09:39:11 <conrad> firefox 3.5 will use X-Content-Duration to display the seek bar
09:39:30 <conrad> value is a floating point number of seconds
09:39:33 <raphael> it is to fake it and will work only on firefox ? but worth to test it
09:39:40 <conrad> sure
09:40:01 <erik> within IBBT we will also try to come with a media player that is able to understand all headers
09:40:08 <silvia> the point is that browser vendors need to see the impact and understand the usefulness, which is why a javascript implementation is useful
09:40:22 <erik> TOPIC: AOB
09:40:28 <silvia> then they can decide to follow our specifications and implement it natively
09:40:28 <conrad> davy: also try putting the urls through validator.annodex.org , just thinking we can update that for such testing
09:40:58 <Zakim> -tmichel
09:40:59 <Zakim> -raphael
09:41:00 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
09:41:05 <Zakim> -conrad
09:41:12 <raphael> [meeting adjourned]
09:41:14 <erik> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:41:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html erik
09:41:17 <silvia> oh cool! early finish! time to go fix some stuff :)
09:41:22 <raphael> yep
09:41:26 <Zakim> -erik
09:41:27 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
09:41:29 <Zakim> Attendees were raphael, mhausenblas, tmichel, erik, conrad
09:42:44 <erik> present+ Davy
09:43:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:44:54 <conrad> no worries, try running the files through oggz-sort, or put similar code in your muxer :)
09:45:20 <conrad> and you can test them locally with oggz-validate
09:53:03 <silvia> oh the packets out of order is a typical error
09:53:23 <silvia> as long as everything else is fine, it's all good
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