IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-09-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:57:21 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
08:57:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
08:57:23 [Zakim]
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08:57:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
08:57:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
08:57:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
08:57:26 [trackbot]
Date: 30 September 2009
08:59:26 [raphael]
08:59:30 [raphael]
Chair: Erik, Raphael
08:59:38 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
08:59:44 [Zakim]
08:59:49 [raphael]
Regrets: Yves
09:00:11 [raphael]
Present: Raphael, Erik, Michael, Silvia (irc only)
09:00:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
09:00:29 [Zakim]
09:01:49 [nessy]
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09:02:28 [tmichel]
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09:02:53 [erik]
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09:03:21 [davy]
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09:03:22 [Zakim]
09:03:27 [Zakim]
09:03:35 [raphael]
Present+ Thierry
09:04:20 [raphael]
Present+ davy
09:04:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
09:07:16 [raphael]
Scribe: Erik
09:07:20 [raphael]
Scribenick: erik
09:07:27 [erik]
09:08:00 [erik]
09:08:05 [raphael]
09:08:22 [mhausenblas]
09:08:24 [davy]
09:08:28 [raphael]
09:08:29 [erik]
09:08:36 [silvia]
09:08:45 [erik]
minutes from 23/09 accepted
09:09:02 [erik]
close action-111
09:09:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-111 Provide CVS access to conrad closed
09:09:24 [erik]
TOPIC: UC and Requirements
09:09:49 [raphael]
09:11:09 [erik]
policy about contributors & editors as of decided in Barcelona F2F
09:12:18 [erik]
everybody should check his/her affiliation
09:13:18 [erik]
ACTIONS 105, 106, 113 ongoing by Raphael
09:13:56 [silvia]
ACTION 113 has been finished
09:13:56 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 113
09:14:08 [erik]
Raphael suggests section 6 to go to Annex
09:14:18 [raphael]
yes silvia, thanks :-)
09:14:25 [mhausenblas]
09:14:28 [erik]
09:14:40 [davy]
09:14:51 [erik]
close action-113
09:14:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-113 Move "Side Conditions" section to requirements doc only closed
09:15:36 [silvia]
I am not fussed about section 6 staying as section 6 or going into annex - either works
09:15:37 [erik]
ACTION: Davy and Erik to review Raphael's documents
09:15:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-116 - And Erik to review Raphael's documents [on Davy Van Deursen - due 2009-10-07].
09:16:48 [erik]
TOPIC: specification
09:17:08 [conrad]
conrad has joined #mediafrag
09:17:09 [erik]
close action-109
09:17:09 [trackbot]
ACTION-109 And Davy to write a paragraph in the documents to explain why we don't include this feature in the spec (rationale) based on the group analysis (impact both req and spec documents) closed
09:17:10 [silvia]
do we have a commit mailing list on the WDs?
09:17:23 [raphael]
what do you mean by commit mailing list?
09:17:35 [silvia]
for cvs commits on the WD documents
09:17:47 [silvia]
they can be mailed out - it is done on all open source projects that I am active on
09:18:07 [raphael]
you mean a change log section ?
09:18:36 [silvia]
no, just every "cvs commit" creates an email with the commit message and the diff
09:18:54 [silvia]
and it is sent out to the group of people working on the code/document
09:19:33 [silvia]
helps heaps to stay updated on changes
09:19:36 [raphael]
i'm not sure this is really useful, particularly since some people do just one commit with a lot of changes, and some others, a commit for every characters they change :-)
09:19:46 [Zakim]
09:19:52 [raphael]
Silvia, any word about action-109?
09:20:00 [raphael]
zakim, ??P8 is conrad
09:20:00 [Zakim]
+conrad; got it
09:20:02 [silvia]
yeah, I finished that, too :)
09:20:28 [raphael]
09:20:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-110 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to silvia to Draft a summary starting from her blog post and the 17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role of ? and #) -- due 2009-09-24 -- OPEN
09:20:28 [trackbot]
09:20:41 [silvia]
I finished that
09:20:51 [silvia]
please feel free to review the changes I made
09:21:13 [silvia]
raphael: it doesn't matter how many changes are being made - it is really useful - I know it from other projects
09:21:26 [erik]
close action-110
09:21:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-110 Silvia to Draft a summary starting from her blog post and the 17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role of ? and #) closed
09:21:29 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
09:21:29 [Zakim]
conrad should now be muted
09:21:32 [silvia]
but if that is not something W3C typically hook into the commit, then it's too hard
09:22:24 [erik]
Action: troncy to review Silvia's summary of her blogpost
09:22:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-117 - Review Silvia's summary of her blogpost [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-10-07].
09:22:56 [erik]
postpone discussion on URI-templates?
09:23:02 [raphael]
I will actually review the whole section 3
09:23:03 [conrad]
public commit logs tend to encourage people to commit at a useful frequency, ie. not too often or too infrequently
09:23:12 [raphael]
We postpone the discussio on: "should we provide one or several URI templates in complement
09:23:12 [raphael]
of the BNF syntax provided in the spec for the definition of Media
09:23:12 [raphael]
Fragments URI?
09:23:16 [erik]
rssagent, draft minutes
09:23:28 [raphael]
09:23:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-112 -- Raphaël Troncy to propose a digest of Conrad and current's proposal regarding the use of existing and custom headers for the communication UA server -- due 2009-09-25 -- OPEN
09:23:28 [trackbot]
09:23:36 [erik]
rrsagent, draft minutes
09:23:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate erik
09:23:52 [silvia]
yes, I worked over the complete section 3, raphael
09:24:21 [erik]
Raphael will work on Action-112 today as this is a blocking factor for publication
09:24:21 [raphael]
my actions are still pending
09:24:51 [erik]
TOPIC: Test Cases
09:25:10 [mhausenblas]
09:25:11 [erik]
michael is updating test tool
09:25:23 [erik]
michael's actions are still pending
09:26:38 [erik]
Action: michael to come up with individual 'normal' test cases (+/- 20)
09:26:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-118 - Come up with individual 'normal' test cases (+/- 20) [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-10-07].
09:27:23 [mhausenblas]
the TC overview could look like
09:27:44 [erik]
raphael wonders how test case doc will look like
09:29:38 [erik]
michael ... table of test cases automatically generated
09:30:09 [erik]
raphael ... after publication, implemetors can use this to test their implementation
09:30:33 [erik]
regrets: Yves, Jack
09:30:49 [erik]
TOPIC: implementations
09:30:49 [silvia]
I would already use it in the html5 pages to make sure I cover all important test cases
09:31:07 [erik]
davy ... updated MMLab's parser
09:31:16 [erik]
... can handle all the proposed time schemes
09:32:33 [erik]
... updated range headers (via two firefox add-ins to test)
09:33:06 [erik]
... would like to have players that can do that ...
09:33:35 [raphael]
Are these 2 headers required: and for inspecting headers request and response?
09:33:35 [erik]
... difficult to use content-range header
09:33:40 [conrad]
davy: do you have an updated URL? is 404
09:33:59 [raphael]
s/2 headers/2 add-ons
09:34:13 [erik]
davy ... these are indeed the add-ons
09:35:52 [silvia]
raphael: they are not required, but they help you work out what is going on
09:36:05 [silvia]
you can also create the http headers through javascript
09:36:19 [conrad]
the problem is that UAs do not understand time Content-Ranges
09:36:22 [silvia]
I want to work on this as a demo with davy's server
09:36:39 [silvia]
yeah, everything has to be emulated with javascript right now
09:36:56 [conrad]
so we need to suggest that UAs display the "start-end/total" values appropriately, eg. in the seek bar
09:37:02 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
09:37:02 [Zakim]
conrad should no longer be muted
09:37:17 [raphael]
Davy points out that the instance-length in the content-range headers is ignored by the media player plugin
09:37:31 [raphael]
Conrad: is it something we need to push to the browser vendors ?
09:38:44 [silvia]
some of it
09:38:58 [erik]
davy ... server implementation is allright, we just need players that support these extra headers
09:39:11 [conrad]
firefox 3.5 will use X-Content-Duration to display the seek bar
09:39:30 [conrad]
value is a floating point number of seconds
09:39:33 [raphael]
it is to fake it and will work only on firefox ? but worth to test it
09:39:40 [conrad]
09:40:01 [erik]
within IBBT we will also try to come with a media player that is able to understand all headers
09:40:08 [silvia]
the point is that browser vendors need to see the impact and understand the usefulness, which is why a javascript implementation is useful
09:40:22 [erik]
09:40:28 [silvia]
then they can decide to follow our specifications and implement it natively
09:40:28 [conrad]
davy: also try putting the urls through , just thinking we can update that for such testing
09:40:58 [Zakim]
09:40:59 [Zakim]
09:41:00 [Zakim]
09:41:05 [Zakim]
09:41:12 [raphael]
[meeting adjourned]
09:41:14 [erik]
rrsagent, draft minutes
09:41:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate erik
09:41:17 [silvia]
oh cool! early finish! time to go fix some stuff :)
09:41:22 [raphael]
09:41:26 [Zakim]
09:41:27 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
09:41:29 [Zakim]
Attendees were raphael, mhausenblas, tmichel, erik, conrad
09:42:44 [erik]
present+ Davy
09:43:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
09:44:54 [conrad]
no worries, try running the files through oggz-sort, or put similar code in your muxer :)
09:45:20 [conrad]
and you can test them locally with oggz-validate
09:53:03 [silvia]
oh the packets out of order is a typical error
09:53:23 [silvia]
as long as everything else is fine, it's all good
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