12:59:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #awwsw
12:59:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-irc
12:59:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:59:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be AWWSW
12:59:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
12:59:28 <trackbot> Meeting: W3C Architecture of The World Wide Semantic Web Task Force Teleconference
12:59:28 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2009
12:59:39 <mhausenblas> Chair: Jonathan
12:59:44 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas 
12:59:53 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:59:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:00:30 <Zakim> TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM has now started
13:00:37 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
13:00:48 <Zakim> +alanr
13:01:23 <mhausenblas> Topic: Draft Report to TAG
13:01:27 <mhausenblas> see http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswHome/DraftReport
13:02:49 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #awwsw
13:02:52 <jar> zakim, alanr is jar
13:02:52 <Zakim> +jar; got it
13:03:33 <Zakim> + +1.216.445.aaaa
13:03:41 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is dbooth 
13:03:41 <Zakim> +dbooth; got it
13:03:49 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
13:03:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, jar, dbooth
13:03:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see dbooth, RRSAgent, Zakim, jar, mhausenblas, trackbot
13:04:19 <mhausenblas> http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswHome/DraftRepor
13:04:22 <mhausenblas> http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswHome/DraftReport
13:05:30 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #awwsw
13:05:41 <mhausenblas> cf. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/uniform-access.html
13:06:28 <hhalpin> for /tag cvs, I imagine JAR might have to run it by the rest of TAG, but I imagine that will be OK.
13:07:20 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Jonathan to figure out where in the W3C space the draft report should go (check back with TAG)
13:07:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Figure out where in the W3C space the draft report should go (check back with TAG) [on Jonathan Rees - due 2009-10-06].
13:07:40 <mhausenblas> ACTIONS?
13:07:49 <Zakim> +michael_
13:07:56 <hhalpin> ?
13:08:00 <hhalpin> thats me
13:08:27 <hhalpin> Zakim, michael_ is hhalpin
13:08:27 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
13:08:34 <jar> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-awwsw/2009Sep/0006.html
13:08:57 <hhalpin> +1
13:09:15 <hhalpin> It appears that http owl has matured a bit since last I looked at it...
13:09:53 <hhalpin> of course, for an actual spec we need to probably just say "this is a class for any resource"
13:12:50 <hhalpin> q+
13:14:23 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin
13:15:06 <hhalpin> "SyntacticThing"
13:16:36 <dbooth> harry: I would prefer with my energy to look at owl diagram.  My only concern is to align it with IRW and see what the diffs are.  Might need to think of the best names for some of these things even if they're not directly in a spec.  An OWL ontology is most needed.  It would be nice to have n3 rules added on top.  There's a tension between modeling
13:16:49 <dbooth> ... every liittle thing and being useful.
13:17:34 <hhalpin> So we expand it?
13:17:44 <hhalpin> more distinctions jar?
13:17:49 <dbooth> dbooth: The cafeteria approach is the opposite of consolidating.
13:18:34 <hhalpin> (my opinion it's because the IETF specs are internally a bit incoherent)
13:18:36 <dbooth> jar: I want to get closure on an ontology of resources as they appear in rfc 2616.  That seems like a baby step.
13:18:56 <dbooth> ... but how does that relate to AWWW?
13:19:12 <mhausenblas> Michael: we should stop discussing and start working on the draft: 
13:19:24 <mhausenblas> 1. agree on structure 
13:19:27 <mhausenblas> 2. assign responsibilities for sections
13:19:30 <mhausenblas> 3. write!
13:19:37 <dbooth> hhalpin: To get the best of both worlds, you could say "this term in http is needed in a minimal ont, and that's how it relates to AWWW".
13:19:44 <hhalpin> does that make sense?
13:20:26 <hhalpin> http in RDF issues
13:20:28 <mhausenblas> q+
13:20:29 <hhalpin> and other things.
13:20:44 <hhalpin> it's just a style of doing a review.
13:21:29 <dbooth> q+
13:22:23 <hhalpin> I would like to make sure when reviewing we do it with a practical aim in mind.
13:22:24 <mhausenblas> ack me
13:22:25 <dbooth> michael: We should stop discussion and start working on the draft.
13:22:34 <dbooth> dbooth: The tension is that one either interprets what the specs say, to produce a smaller more useful ont, or one follows what they *say*, and that leads to a plethora of classes that are harder to make useful.
13:22:42 <dbooth> ACK DBOOTH
13:22:49 <dbooth> ack dbooth
13:23:02 <hhalpin> so when reviewing I'll divide ontology into terms that should be kept in some future "resouce ontology" and other terms that should be punted to other groups.
13:23:29 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to review IRW and HTTP Ont OWL.
13:23:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Review IRW and HTTP Ont OWL. [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-10-06].
13:23:48 <hhalpin> Yes, but what they actually say is incoherent David.
13:23:52 <hhalpin> That's my opinion.
13:24:11 <hhalpin> +1 on exposing incoherency
13:24:12 <dbooth> I think we have little choice but to take the committee approach.
13:24:23 <hhalpin> So, we have a subsection that is coherent.
13:24:26 <hhalpin> That's my ideas.
13:26:00 <hhalpin> I have lots of stuff for 1. Motivation I could add in.
13:26:06 <hhalpin> from the ESWC paper etc.
13:26:20 <hhalpin> of the terms.
13:28:28 <hhalpin> I imagine the reviews of the ontology will help here.
13:29:38 <hhalpin> q+
13:30:13 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
13:31:25 <hhalpin> I've got a few for those.
13:31:34 <hhalpin> I'll volunteer to throw a few use-cases in there.
13:32:44 <dbooth> dbooth: I suggest the motivation section contain some questions that the ontology and interpretations may answer.
13:33:04 <hhalpin> So note that I'm not taking an action on Motivations section :)
13:33:20 <dbooth> jar: motivation section should model things like the google home page.  Another side is the application side: why you want to model these things.
13:33:24 <dbooth> q+
13:33:36 <mhausenblas> ack dbooth 
13:34:45 <dbooth> michael: What about related work section?  Needs attention too.
13:34:52 <hhalpin> already there.
13:35:13 <jar> IAO should be listed
13:35:51 <dbooth> jar: IAO is OBO spinoff.
13:35:52 <mhausenblas> http://code.google.com/p/information-artifact-ontology/
13:36:01 <hhalpin> :)
13:36:10 <jar> s/OBO/OBI/
13:37:39 <dbooth> ACTION: Michael to work on motivation section first, then work on related work section
13:37:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Work on motivation section first, then work on related work section [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-10-06].
13:39:01 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:39:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:42:33 <dbooth> dbooth: Please add ftrr:IR from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-awwsw/2008Apr/att-0040/test8.n3.txt and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-awwsw/2008Apr/0046.html
13:42:41 <hhalpin> (I am thinking we had this conversation re ftrr:IR a while back didn't we?)
13:42:58 <hhalpin> (do we really want to go back to that?)
13:43:11 <hhalpin> :)
13:43:13 <hhalpin> we can again!
13:43:22 <hhalpin> but its just we all know where this leads :)
13:43:50 <hhalpin> I think David could take an action explaining the issues with ftrr.
13:43:57 <hhalpin> his explanation is good
13:44:05 <dbooth> what issues?
13:44:10 <hhalpin> and if we have it in the wiki then we can point people to it, as it is a major source of confusion.
13:44:16 <hhalpin> that it doesn't work easily as an ontology term
13:44:19 <mhausenblas> Michael: propose that each section is drafted till next meeting (subsections, etc.)
13:44:26 <hhalpin> i.e. the model distinction
13:44:52 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: dbooth to compare jar's ont at
13:44:56 <mhausenblas> -- done
13:45:02 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Michael to work on outline of draft report
13:45:04 <mhausenblas> -- done
13:47:03 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:47:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:47:25 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who is here?
13:47:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, jar, dbooth, hhalpin
13:47:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see hhalpin, dbooth, RRSAgent, Zakim, jar, mhausenblas, trackbot
13:47:38 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:47:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth
13:48:23 <hhalpin> take care, gonna run!
13:48:32 <dbooth> Present: Jonathan Rees, Michael Hausenblas, David Booth, Harry Halpin
13:48:32 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
13:48:34 <Zakim> -jar
13:48:38 <Zakim> -hhalpin
13:48:51 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth
13:49:12 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
13:49:12 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were mhausenblas, jar, +1.216.445.aaaa, dbooth, hhalpin
13:49:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #awwsw
13:49:26 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, bye
13:49:26 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-actions.rdf :
13:49:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jonathan to figure out where in the W3C space the draft report should go (check back with TAG) [1]
13:49:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-irc#T13-07-20
13:49:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to review IRW and HTTP Ont OWL. [2]
13:49:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-irc#T13-23-29
13:49:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to work on motivation section first, then work on related work section [3]
13:49:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/29-awwsw-irc#T13-37-39