12:54:24 RRSAgent has joined #swxg 12:54:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc 12:55:00 zakim, list conferences 12:55:00 I see Team_W3M()8:00AM active 12:55:01 also scheduled at this time are DIG_WSRI()8:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, INC_SWXG()9:00AM, Team_(owlc)12:36Z, IA_MFWG()8:00AM, WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM 12:55:29 zakim, this is INC_SWXG 12:55:29 AlexPassant, I see INC_SWXG()9:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be INC_SWXG". 12:55:47 zakim, this will be INC_SWXG 12:55:47 ok, AlexPassant; I see INC_SWXG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 12:57:16 INC_SWXG()9:00AM has now started 12:57:23 +??P2 12:57:36 Zakim, ??P2 is me 12:57:36 +AlexPassant; got it 12:58:02 + +0785583aaaa 12:58:17 +??P8 12:58:20 zakim, ??P8 is me 12:58:20 +AndreaP; got it 12:58:22 rreck has joined #SWXG 12:58:27 zakim, +0785583aaaa is me 12:58:30 +tinkster; got it 12:58:55 -AndreaP 12:59:17 +??P8 12:59:19 zakim, code? 12:59:19 the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), AndreaP 12:59:33 zakim, ??P8 is me 12:59:33 +rreck; got it 12:59:33 zakim, who's here 12:59:34 tinkster, you need to end that query with '?' 12:59:34 +??P9 12:59:36 zakim, ??P9 is me 12:59:36 +AndreaP; got it 12:59:43 zakim, who's here? 12:59:43 On the phone I see AlexPassant, tinkster, rreck, AndreaP 12:59:44 On IRC I see rreck, RRSAgent, Zakim, AlexPassant, bblfish, AndreaP, hhalpin, dsr, oshani, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, trackbot 12:59:53 + +1.314.683.aabb 13:00:03 Adam has joined #swxg 13:00:15 +Dsr 13:00:24 pchampin has joined #swxg 13:00:43 zakim, mute me 13:00:43 rreck should now be muted 13:00:55 say something 13:01:02 yes i hear you 13:01:09 + +1.510.931.aacc 13:01:27 +pchampin 13:01:38 zakim, aacc is me 13:01:38 +bblfish; got it 13:01:48 +??P19 13:02:03 zakim, unmute me 13:02:03 rreck should no longer be muted 13:02:14 Zakim, ??P19 is hhalpin 13:02:14 +hhalpin; got it 13:02:41 Zakim, who's here? 13:02:41 On the phone I see AlexPassant, tinkster, rreck, AndreaP, +1.314.683.aabb, Dsr, bblfish, pchampin (muted), hhalpin 13:02:42 Zakim, who's on the phone? 13:02:43 On IRC I see pchampin, Adam, rreck, RRSAgent, Zakim, AlexPassant, bblfish, AndreaP, hhalpin, dsr, oshani, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, trackbot 13:02:47 On the phone I see AlexPassant, tinkster, rreck, AndreaP, +1.314.683.aabb, Dsr, bblfish, pchampin (muted), hhalpin 13:02:53 +DKA 13:03:01 whose money? 13:03:01 trackbot, start meeting 13:03:03 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:03:05 Zakim, this will be 7994 13:03:05 ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()9:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago 13:03:06 Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference 13:03:06 Date: 16 September 2009 13:03:27 1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-09-16T13:00-15:00Z 13:03:30 money could be saved using asterix 13:03:32 chair: hhalpin 13:03:39 Hans? 13:03:50 hides 13:04:00 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:00 sorry, hhalpin, I don't know what conference this is 13:04:06 not today, i may have to rush off 13:04:11 melvster has joined #swxg 13:04:16 Zakim, this is SWXG 13:04:16 ok, hhalpin; that matches INC_SWXG()9:00AM 13:04:25 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:25 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tinkster 13:04:32 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:32 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.314.683.aabb 13:04:39 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:39 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.314.683.aabb 13:04:43 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:44 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck 13:04:50 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:50 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin 13:04:54 Zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:54 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck 13:04:54 sure i will 13:05:04 DKA has joined #swxg 13:05:12 Zakim, who's on the phone? 13:05:12 On the phone I see AlexPassant, tinkster, rreck, AndreaP, +1.314.683.aabb, Dsr, bblfish, pchampin (muted), hhalpin, DKA, +49.238.aadd 13:05:25 i just need help knowing who is talking sometimes 13:05:36 MacTed has joined #swxg 13:05:40 Zakim, +49.238.aadd is me 13:05:40 +FabGandon; got it 13:05:56 regrets: Mischa, PeterF, Joaquin 13:06:08 + +1.781.273.aaee 13:06:24 regrets: Mischa, PeterF, Joaquin, Hakan, cperey 13:06:33 +??P27 13:06:39 PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 9th September 2009 (only text IRC notes!) as a true record 13:06:41 http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-swxg-irc.txt 13:06:43 Zakim, aaee is OpenLink_Software 13:06:43 +OpenLink_Software; got it 13:06:43 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 13:06:44 +MacTed; got it 13:06:49 Zakim, mute me 13:06:49 MacTed should now be muted 13:06:58 you mean this? http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-swxg-irc 13:06:59 you are breaking up harry 13:07:06 +1 accept 13:07:08 yes 13:07:12 yes 13:07:13 +1 13:07:30 I think it was making you talk very fast 13:07:31 +tpa 13:07:37 RESOLVED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 9th September 2009 (only text IRC notes!) as a true recor 13:07:39 headsets are powered by USB some places 13:07:41 tpa has joined #swxg 13:07:46 ACTION: hhalpin needs to convert previous minutes into HTML via some script 13:07:46 Created ACTION-85 - Needs to convert previous minutes into HTML via some script [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-09-23]. 13:07:46 Zakim, +??P27 is me 13:07:46 sorry, melvster, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27' 13:07:51 PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. Sept. 23rd 13:08:11 2. General Organization and Task Forces 13:08:34 -hhalpin 13:08:41 mib_pl1yi4ts has joined #swxg 13:09:32 ok, what is the next item to meet again? 13:09:33 tpa has joined #swxg 13:09:45 + +1.617.588.aaff 13:09:48 yes 13:09:52 much better 13:10:05 Zakim, aaff is hhalpin 13:10:05 +hhalpin; got it 13:10:35 what is the acronym? 13:10:38 TPAC? 13:10:46 Zakim, ??P27 is me 13:10:46 +melvster; got it 13:11:02 thanks 13:11:25 dan: TPAC is a multigroup meeting scheduled for 2 days 13:11:47 zakim: mute me 13:12:10 harry: has requested days but has yet to receive confirmation 13:12:24 dan: scheduled for Monday only ATM 13:12:43 dan: open day Monday but business on Tuesday 13:13:14 dan: W3C is asking for a registration and $50 charge 13:13:22 harry: this might effect attendance 13:14:15 dan: this barrier may not be compatible with inviting new people's interest 13:14:43 dan: W3C has to pay for the facility 13:15:26 harry: my suggestion is to meet as an XG on Monday to work on UseCase documents 13:15:48 +??P30 13:15:59 Zakim, ??P30 is me 13:15:59 +mattroweshow; got it 13:16:02 harry: on Tuesday get our XG to attend identity workshop 13:16:24 harry: earlybird registration ends tomorrow 13:16:58 harry: fee is substantial but covers a week's attendance, and maybe we can get a reduced fee for attending for a day 13:17:12 harry: we can attempt to do outreach during that time 13:17:44 dan: we can do XG on Tuesday, but have Monday as an openday in a neutral location 13:18:00 I could look about Sun Microsystems offices 13:18:02 + +1.857.998.aagg 13:18:09 in center of SF 13:18:13 harry: that sounds acceptable 13:18:28 dan: does anyone have a contact for finding a space? 13:18:57 unknown: how many people? 13:19:02 dan: possibly 100 13:19:40 unknown: there is a one floor office space with limited space 13:20:23 unknown: outside san francisco ? 13:20:31 dan: mountain view area 13:20:45 dan: in that general geographic area 13:20:45 q? 13:20:55 question: should it be in SF? In SF I don't think it is possible for more than 30. In Menlo Park there will certainly be space for more 13:21:12 yes, it's in Bay Area 13:21:20 dan: where is menlo park? 13:21:22 ah ok 13:21:27 I thought it was in SF 13:21:40 yes, I'll check 13:21:52 how does one create a TASK? 13:21:52 dan: henry can you check if we can access to that space? 13:22:20 dan: we need the space on Tuesday 13:22:23 harry: agreed 13:22:29 hhalpin has joined #swxg 13:22:34 if someone can create a task for me 13:22:56 ACTION: bblfish to check on Monday 2nd of Nov. for SUN space for Social Web open day 13:22:56 Created ACTION-86 - Check on Monday 2nd of Nov. for SUN space for Social Web open day [on Henry Story - due 2009-09-23]. 13:23:08 - +1.857.998.aagg 13:23:15 ACTION: DKA to communicate Monday->Tuesday switch for SWXG. 13:23:15 Created ACTION-87 - Communicate Monday->Tuesday switch for SWXG. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-09-23]. 13:23:44 [CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members 13:23:50 [CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. 13:24:00 3. Invited Guest Invitations 13:24:07 Something on activity streams looks interesting 13:24:18 http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/ 13:24:37 [CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets 13:24:42 [CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C. 13:24:45 Libby Miller also has an activities-in-RDF thing in progress. 13:24:52 [CONTINUES] ACTION:Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP 13:24:57 harry: since no one appears to have contacts, look at the specs 13:25:02 4. Technical Overview 13:25:11 What precisely should be in the technical overview? The matrix? Mappings? How should the matrix relate to the user-stories 13:25:18 5. User Stories 13:25:31 [CONTINUES] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks 13:25:37 [CONTINUES] ACTION : rreck to flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and null provenance 13:25:53 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Oshani to merge document takedown with time-related takedown "forget this in ten years" and more general concept of data removal. 13:26:11 [CONTINUES] ACTION:oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability 13:26:13 harry: what else do people want to see in the technical overview? 13:26:20 [CONTINUES] ACTION: oshani to flesh out "Intransitivity of Policies Applied to Social Network Data" 13:26:29 [CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access and takedown to data "about" you 13:26:44 [CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish to merge Family and Group access usecases. 13:26:58 [CONTIUES] ACTION:caribou to flesh out Data Protection use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife 13:27:00 i can hear a pin drop 13:27:10 libby miller's sketch of activities in RDF - http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2009/06/activ/schema.html 13:27:16 [CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecase 13:27:26 harry: given the lack of comments i will put forth some proposals 13:27:47 harry: do we have RDF serializations of some of these streams? 13:28:12 7. Invited Guest - David Raggett 13:28:19 harry: please looks at activity streams 13:28:29 slides http://www.w3.org/2009/Talks/1609-dsr-intermediaries.pdf 13:29:29 dsr: provides background about himself that rreck misses 13:29:47 dsr: people can ask as we go through the slides 13:30:03 dsr: web privacy is a challenge 13:30:20 dsr: i will present some approaches 13:30:54 dsr: websites often present policies that are hard to digest 13:31:07 dsr: these appear to protect the website than help the user 13:31:20 dsr: slide 3 13:31:52 dsr: access from a variety of devices - laptop, mobile, livingroom -etc 13:32:08 im lazy 13:32:19 that's a good use case: being able to login from any machine 13:32:28 dsr: people are likely to click through 13:32:39 dsr: worrying but possibly meaningless 13:33:17 dsr: global identifiers are possibly not great 13:33:28 dsr: openID is convenient 13:33:49 dsr: slide 6 open ID 13:34:35 dsr: its good in someway since its constrained access rights 13:34:46 dsr: what is the next step beyond openID 13:35:27 rreck im having trouble keeping up 13:35:51 dsr: slide 9 13:36:02 thanks 13:37:17 q+ 13:38:41 you have forgotten software sales as a business model 13:39:02 one could build software, and have people pay for the updates, or for insurance 13:41:02 Agents 13:41:33 web-cloud-social-ajax-mashups 13:41:53 (or mashup-agents) 13:43:07 otherwise we end up trusting everyone 13:47:21 + +1.857.998.aahh 13:48:25 -tpa 13:49:53 dsr: when social networks change privacy policies, it would be good if the old policy continued to stick to previously-submitted data. 13:50:00 ack rreck 13:50:56 i forget about scribing sorry 13:51:23 privacy provider specifications? 13:51:29 harry: are there existing privacy policy specifications? 13:51:40 dsr: p3p 13:51:53 dsr: most users arent willing to open browser policies 13:52:03 dsr: delegation model is useful in this context 13:52:50 dsr: its a challenge to keep abreast of what is happening in this area 13:52:57 dsr: as its in its infancy 13:53:26 you could also use Access control on RESTful resources that return different representations when different people access the site depending on what group of people have access to what info 13:53:33 harry: we are writing a report therefore we looking at where to point 13:53:33 Delivery Context Ontology: http://www.w3.org/TR/dcontology/ 13:54:00 dsr: context awareness and personalization working group 13:54:09 dsr: is being re-charter 13:54:21 uwawg http://www.w3.org/2007/uwa/ 13:54:39 dsr: continue working on the context ontology 13:54:53 dsr: aligning this work with groups outside of W3C 13:55:31 dsr: how do apply research to simplify things 13:55:55 dsr: workshop in the spring, based on funding issues 13:56:06 cling? 13:56:12 pling 13:56:20 ty 13:56:53 harry: where is the role of the device context ontology 13:57:04 harry: what is needed from the social web 13:57:24 dsr: personalization side, it can be multifaceted 13:57:56 dsr: context involves a shared vocabulary 13:58:12 dsr: that require defining 13:58:24 harry: other ontologies? 13:58:31 dsr: yes 13:59:04 dsr: combining ontologies that dont preclude combinations 13:59:30 harry: what would you like us to say? 14:00:38 golly im scribingly challenged 14:01:35 dsr: work on vocabulary and standards will help 14:02:01 harry: is there anything you would like from incubator groups? 14:02:06 yea we have a lot of open source and demonstrators at http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl 14:02:15 dsr: i havent thought of anything at this point 14:02:28 thanks for the presentation dsr 14:02:42 tpa_ has joined #swxg 14:03:13 harry: who would be willing to document the main points of this talk? 14:03:25 harry: one or two paragraphs 14:03:41 privacy is much more than identity 14:03:48 dsr: "privacy is much more than identity, and usability points to delegation models." 14:04:35 can the speaker please document their question 14:05:00 FabGandon has joined #swxg 14:05:31 content negotiation 14:05:31 I have seen an openID provider offering multiple URIs for one account 14:05:40 with a Firefox extension to manage them easily 14:05:43 Content negotiation can return different representations depending on who is accessing the web site. 14:06:01 but that ties you to this particular provider... 14:06:26 cryptographic techniques which can minimize disclosing personal data 14:06:46 +1 on usability 14:06:58 i can try and write up a 1/2 paragraph summary 14:07:40 ACTION: melvster to write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. 14:07:40 Sorry, couldn't find user - melvster 14:07:49 dsr: delivery ontologies arent perfect yet 14:08:14 -AndreaP 14:08:28 dsr: vocabulary issues are best addressed up front 14:09:06 Meeting adjourned. 14:09:15 -DKA 14:09:58 -tinkster 14:10:01 -AlexPassant 14:10:14 -Dsr 14:10:14 -FabGandon 14:10:24 -bblfish 14:10:25 -pchampin 14:10:26 -melvster 14:10:27 -MacTed 14:10:32 -oshani 14:10:53 ACTION: mcarvalh to write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. 14:10:53 Created ACTION-88 - Write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. [on Melvin Carvalho - due 2009-09-23]. 14:11:19 rrsagent, stop log 14:11:19 I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', hhalpin. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:11:54 Zakim, please part 14:11:54 leaving. As of this point the attendees were AlexPassant, AndreaP, tinkster, rreck, +1.314.683.aabb, Dsr, +1.510.931.aacc, pchampin, bblfish, hhalpin, DKA, FabGandon, 14:11:54 Zakim has left #swxg 14:11:58 ... +1.781.273.aaee, MacTed, tpa, +1.617.588.aaff, melvster, mattroweshow, +1.857.998.aagg, oshani 14:12:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:12:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin 14:12:28 rrsagent, please part 14:12:28 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-actions.rdf : 14:12:28 ACTION: hhalpin needs to convert previous minutes into HTML via some script [1] 14:12:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T13-07-46 14:12:28 ACTION: bblfish to check on Monday 2nd of Nov. for SUN space for Social Web open day [2] 14:12:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T13-22-56 14:12:28 ACTION: DKA to communicate Monday->Tuesday switch for SWXG. [3] 14:12:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T13-23-15 14:12:28 ACTION: melvster to write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. [4] 14:12:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T14-07-40 14:12:28 ACTION: mcarvalh to write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. [5] 14:12:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T14-10-53 14:12:36 trackbot, end meeting 14:12:36 Zakim, list attendees 14:12:37 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:12:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-minutes.html trackbot 14:12:38 RRSAgent, bye 14:12:38 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-actions.rdf : 14:12:38 ACTION: hhalpin needs to convert previous minutes into HTML via some script [1] 14:12:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T13-07-46 14:12:38 ACTION: bblfish to check on Monday 2nd of Nov. for SUN space for Social Web open day [2] 14:12:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T13-22-56 14:12:38 ACTION: DKA to communicate Monday->Tuesday switch for SWXG. [3] 14:12:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T13-23-15 14:12:38 ACTION: melvster to write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. [4] 14:12:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T14-07-40 14:12:38 ACTION: mcarvalh to write up David Raggett's guest talk on context, delegated privacy providers, and so on. [5] 14:12:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-swxg-irc#T14-10-53