IRC log of egov on 2009-09-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:55:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:55:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-egov-irc
12:55:36 [kevin]
kevin has joined #egov
12:57:42 [josema]
trackbot, srta
12:57:42 [trackbot]
Sorry, josema, I don't understand 'trackbot, srta'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
12:57:52 [josema]
trackbot, start telcon
12:57:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:57:56 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:57:56 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
12:57:57 [trackbot]
Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:57:57 [trackbot]
Date: 16 September 2009
12:58:03 [josema]
chair: kevin
12:58:20 [josema]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Sep/0009
12:58:24 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
12:58:24 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has not yet started, josema
12:58:28 [Zakim]
On IRC I see kevin, RRSAgent, johnlsheridan, AdamHarvey, Zakim, josema, hughb, trackbot, sandro
12:58:29 [kevin]
good morning
12:58:33 [josema]
morning!
12:58:36 [kevin]
calling in now
12:59:10 [Owen]
Owen has joined #egov
12:59:48 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
12:59:48 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has not yet started, josema
12:59:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Owen, kevin, RRSAgent, johnlsheridan, AdamHarvey, Zakim, josema, hughb, trackbot, sandro
12:59:56 [josema]
zakim, call josema-office
12:59:57 [Zakim]
ok, josema; the call is being made
12:59:59 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
13:00:03 [Zakim]
+Josema
13:00:05 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.731.aaaa
13:00:11 [Zakim]
+??P12
13:00:50 [josema]
zakim, aaaa is kevin
13:00:50 [Zakim]
+kevin; got it
13:00:58 [josema]
zakim, ??P12 is Owen
13:00:58 [Zakim]
+Owen; got it
13:01:28 [Zakim]
+Sharron
13:01:39 [AdamHarvey]
Apparently my workplace has blocked long-distance calling from my phone. I can't join the call today...
13:01:50 [kevin]
bummer, that is scary
13:02:01 [kevin]
morning Sharon
13:02:13 [Sharron]
Sharron has joined #egov
13:02:16 [josema]
yup, spending too much on W3C calls?? ;)
13:02:51 [Zakim]
+Sandro
13:03:18 [AdamHarvey]
They did some upgrades last week, so something might have happened with that. We're using VoIP...
13:03:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.564.aabb
13:04:10 [josema]
zakim, aabb is Brand
13:04:10 [Zakim]
+Brand; got it
13:04:37 [josema]
zakim, agenda?
13:04:37 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
13:04:42 [Zakim]
1. Agenda adjustments and next meetings [from josema]
13:04:43 [Zakim]
2. Charter under review [from josema]
13:04:46 [Zakim]
3. Data.gov.* memo [from josema]
13:04:47 [Zakim]
4. O'Reilly Summit debrief [from josema]
13:04:48 [Zakim]
5. What else is going on/coming up? [from josema]
13:05:13 [josema]
scribe: Sharron
13:05:19 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum?
13:05:19 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, josema.
13:05:21 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:05:21 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Agenda adjustments and next meetings" taken up [from josema]
13:05:46 [Zakim]
+ +0203334aacc
13:06:12 [Sharron]
Kevin: Progress on Charter..it was submitted, is out for public comment. So far, I haven't seen any public comment that would change the proceedings. Jose, any updates?
13:06:27 [Sharron]
...do we time or date for a decision?
13:06:29 [johnlsheridan]
zakim, aacc is me
13:06:29 [Zakim]
+johnlsheridan; got it
13:06:59 [Sharron]
Jose: We have received a few reviews but need many more. The deadline is Sept 28. By then we need much more input.
13:07:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.443.aadd
13:07:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.464.aaee
13:07:11 [AdamHarvey]
zakim, aadd is me
13:07:11 [Zakim]
+AdamHarvey; got it
13:07:12 [Rachel]
Rachel has joined #egov
13:07:33 [kevin]
good morning Rachel
13:07:36 [Sharron]
...It is my experince that big companies take some time to review and commnet. Those of you who are AC reps, please submit comments by then.
13:07:54 [michelle]
michelle has joined #egov
13:08:12 [michelle]
michelle has left #egov
13:08:17 [Sharron]
Sandro: The awkward thing is not knowing if the bigs will eventually comment or if they are not planning to.
13:08:20 [josema]
zakim, aaee is Rachel
13:08:20 [Zakim]
+Rachel; got it
13:09:21 [Sharron]
Jose: I will keep advocating for input and ask others to do the same.
13:09:40 [josema]
agenda?
13:10:11 [Sharron]
Kevin: Had started with approach of looking at specific tasks and will continue to plan so that we have a defintive work plan.
13:10:24 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:10:24 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Charter under review" taken up [from josema]
13:10:26 [Sharron]
...that will help with messaging and partnering
13:11:13 [Sharron]
Kevin: Recent interview comments were reported inaccurately and out of context.
13:11:15 [sandro]
(a journalist quote someone imperfectly? never!)
13:12:02 [josema]
I learned those things happen frequently hen managing W3C Spain; learned to live with it ;(
13:12:10 [Sharron]
...we are working on the response and correction so people know the memo is out there and that we correct the perceptions.
13:12:12 [josema]
s/hen/when
13:13:08 [Sharron]
...talking with peers on federal side and realized that specific practices on archival data are challenging. What gov will do with legacy data and the archival and preservation aspects.
13:13:19 [josema]
->http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20090911_4153.php nextgov article
13:13:49 [Sharron]
Kevin: any group members gotten feedback related to memo?
13:14:18 [josema]
I heard a good thing of two from the community here in Spain; will reach out to them more in the coming weeks
13:14:35 [Sharron]
...we talked with Rick Murphy at GSA and referenced the fact that the memeo was available.
13:14:45 [Rachel]
I've been working w/our Federal CIO Council to draft their strategic plan
13:14:58 [Rachel]
Plugged the memo to that community
13:14:59 [josema]
s/memeo/memo
13:15:13 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
13:15:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Josema, kevin, Owen, Sharron, Sandro, Brand, johnlsheridan, AdamHarvey, Rachel
13:15:29 [josema]
q?
13:15:37 [Sharron]
...congrats to everyone. I know there were challenges but it was a good step in our plan to continue to communicate out about what we envision the future to be in this field.
13:15:49 [johnlsheridan]
q+
13:15:55 [Sharron]
Sandro: Concerned that we have had no comments. Any input about why?
13:16:03 [josema]
ack jo
13:16:57 [Sharron]
John: When the memo went round, my collegues responded by asking if we could do this. Pushed around to relevant officials saying it is useful, helpful. Can we plan to do it.
13:17:54 [Sharron]
Kevin: Rachel, comments about process?
13:18:22 [josema]
->http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig-etf/2009Sep/0005 Hugh's email about the process
13:18:49 [Sharron]
Rachel: Hugh spelled out the problems in his email to the group. We need a different venue than Google docs. Need enough time at the end for the ETF to do the best job possible.
13:19:25 [Sharron]
...a couple of days to turn it around with a global team is not reasonable.. Sandro, any ideas about vehicle we could use?
13:19:44 [Sharron]
Sandro: the wiki is good, a common area for edits.
13:19:46 [kevin]
Adam, any update on the egov website?
13:20:23 [Sharron]
Rachel: we should plan to that then rather than Google docs. Any otehr feedback?
13:21:30 [AdamHarvey]
q+ regarding website
13:21:35 [Sharron]
Jose: lack of wysiwyg is a problem. During the process this time, the authors were not regularly updating the changes in Google doc. I was taking those and putting in the wiki with comments. I missed those on this round.
13:22:16 [Sharron]
...a company we discussed had a wysiwyg editor
13:22:33 [Sharron]
Owen; It is XOPUS
13:22:42 [Owen]
http://xopus.com/
13:23:13 [Sharron]
Jose: That may be a solution. Worth exploring.
13:23:39 [Sharron]
...maybe systems team at W3C would install an editor on our wiki
13:23:57 [Sharron]
ACTION: Sandro to ivestigate and report back
13:23:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-90 - Ivestigate and report back [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-09-23].
13:24:04 [josema]
q?
13:24:09 [josema]
ack re
13:24:11 [josema]
ack we
13:24:13 [josema]
q?
13:25:00 [Sharron]
Adam: Talking with Daniel, we were holding off on the website until we knew about the Charter. Are considering Plone.
13:25:37 [josema]
hm... installing a CMS at W3C server? uh, oh... not sure that will fly
13:25:42 [Sharron]
Kevin: New W3C site is just a few weeks away from release. Since it is immanenet, we should rethink our plan.
13:27:08 [Sharron]
Sandro: next step is to hear from those who had problems about what they were and how to avoid going forward.
13:27:21 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:27:21 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Data.gov.* memo" taken up [from josema]
13:27:34 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:27:34 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, josema
13:27:40 [josema]
zakim, close this agendum
13:27:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
13:27:41 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:27:43 [Zakim]
4. O'Reilly Summit debrief [from josema]
13:27:45 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:27:45 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "O'Reilly Summit debrief" taken up [from josema]
13:28:24 [Sharron]
Kevin: Summit was good. People got comments out, introduced directives, much discussion of initiatives but no dates.
13:29:04 [Sharron]
...Don't recall hearing much about apps.gov
13:29:13 [AdamHarvey]
http://www.apps.gov/
13:29:36 [Sharron]
...the idea is to bring forth partners who have cloud computing resources forward that can be used by government.
13:30:27 [Sharron]
...much revolved around privacy aspect. Risks associated with moving to the cloud. How to protect privacy and security.
13:31:47 [Sharron]
Sandro: View form the stage was so upbeat and optimistic. A pep rally for government releasing open data. Off stage it was considered a bit oversold. It as fun and exciting, but not a very tech oriented group. So it was energetic but not real tech specific.
13:32:13 [josema]
q?
13:32:37 [Sharron]
...however we get the data, we'll find a way to make it work. Down the road, data integration will be a problem. Expect as they get serious, there will be more interest in W3C technology.
13:32:57 [AdamHarvey]
That means there's a good opportunity for w3C to fill that tech/policy bridge! (or what Sandro said)
13:33:28 [Sharron]
Kevin: Very much agree with Sandro's assessment. I was suprised that there were many more non-government people there. Given that many of the same faces there to express desire for gov to start doing this.
13:34:16 [Sharron]
Rachel: Fascinating that so many conferences are people from outside government asking gov to do things in this or that way. But structure it so that government people can not attend.
13:34:48 [johnlsheridan]
People should come on our calls instead!
13:34:56 [Sharron]
Kevin: You would think that if you are petitioning the government, you would make arrangements that would allow that.
13:34:58 [johnlsheridan]
To talk to gov people ;)
13:35:01 [josema]
s/w3C/W3C
13:35:55 [johnlsheridan]
People like telling us what to do - the tricky part is delivering these things from inside the system
13:36:09 [Sharron]
Kevin: I agree completely.
13:37:36 [Sharron]
...the challenge for W3C is to get practical solutions out to address the hype that is out there.
13:38:15 [Sharron]
...we have tools and standards to help people do this. Need to make people see these tools in a more appealing way.
13:38:37 [Sharron]
Rachel: I have been grateful to work with this group because of the benefits for me and my agency.
13:38:50 [johnlsheridan]
We've leant heaps from you Rachel
13:38:55 [Sharron]
...hope I contribute persepctive from inside government.
13:39:25 [Sharron]
Kevin: Absolutely! There is sometimes a disconnect between what is on the stage and on the ground in an agency.
13:39:41 [Sharron]
...having the contxt is critical for real progress
13:39:59 [johnlsheridan]
q+
13:40:11 [josema]
q?
13:41:13 [Sharron]
Owen: I wasn't there, but have read some of the reports. The statement for developing and publishing plans for Open Data. I think those plans must be published in open formats.
13:41:44 [Sharron]
Kevin: Beth is now looking for concrete examples of linked, open data.
13:41:54 [Sharron]
...she would then champion.
13:42:37 [Sharron]
...can we get someone on the group to survey agencies. Who is most ready based on data they are releasing. Can we discover and create a Top 10 kind of list for those most ready.
13:42:45 [josema]
q?
13:42:46 [Sharron]
...we could tehn work with and support those efforts.
13:42:55 [josema]
s/tehn/then
13:43:20 [Sharron]
...a few on this group could tak on that task of a general assessment.
13:43:41 [johnlsheridan]
its OK, we're having the conversation I was going to prompt
13:43:46 [Sharron]
Owen: Could we put out a general call to the larger group to recruit volunteers to help with that?
13:44:21 [josema]
q?
13:44:26 [Sharron]
...about the disconnetc: President issued Open Gov initiavie, but no on is really crafting plans.
13:44:57 [josema]
s/on/one
13:44:58 [Sharron]
Brand: At EPA, we have received the initiative and been charged to respond.
13:45:35 [josema]
s/initiavie/initiative
13:45:46 [Sharron]
Kevin: yes, yours is a responsive agency. W3C is interested in partnering with EPA on data cataloging, etc.
13:46:11 [Sharron]
...anything you can do to help move that along is useful.
13:46:39 [Sharron]
Kevin: Sandro, is Jim Handler recently joined?
13:46:51 [josema]
s/Handler/Hendler
13:46:59 [Sharron]
Sandro: Yes, but more interested in participating in sub group
13:47:23 [josema]
->http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42481&public=1 eGov IG participants
13:47:47 [Sharron]
Brand: Future versions of dat.gov
13:47:59 [josema]
s/dat.gov/data.gov
13:48:01 [josema]
q?
13:48:04 [AdamHarvey]
http://federaldata.wik.is/
13:48:12 [josema]
ack jo
13:49:10 [Sharron]
John: There is clearly the need for people to see that this really works. Chicken and egg situation to show how useful linked data can be when we have few examples.
13:49:22 [Sharron]
...encouraged to hear Brand's report.
13:50:07 [Sharron]
Kevin: If we find those examples, must write it up so that it is better known.
13:50:17 [josema]
I'm wondering if we should revive the use cases with a focus on Linked Government Data (in any case, I think we need to discuss them again anyway) http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases
13:50:43 [AdamHarvey]
Should the next short paper be about Linked Data?
13:50:59 [kevin]
good idea
13:51:18 [josema]
+1
13:51:33 [josema]
but would like to discuss about the future of the current working draft, oo
13:51:36 [josema]
s/oo/too
13:51:51 [Sharron]
John: Many departments have multi sheet work books of data. Maybe I could make an MS Office based tools that allows them to mark up the spreadsheet sufficiently to publish. Convert complex spreadsheet into nice RDF. We need those kinds of easy to use.
13:52:19 [AdamHarvey]
Those are great points, John.
13:52:31 [Sharron]
...those pragmatic tools would help make it less painful and more easily sucessful.
13:52:53 [Sharron]
...there is a significant underestimate of how difficult it is.
13:53:40 [Sharron]
Kevin: Very well stated. From the US perspective, knowing that we have those challenges, it is useful to know that the challenges are shared.
13:54:01 [josema]
maybe Sandro's post could serve as basis for a Linked Government Data doc... http://decentralyze.com/2009/09/11/linked-government-data/
13:54:12 [josema]
s/maybe/probably
13:54:24 [Sharron]
Rachel: If they watch TV, they think of the secret gov rooms where all data is aggregated and slickly manipulated. The reality is soo much different.
13:54:28 [AdamHarvey]
and John's points about planning it to integrate with existing office software...
13:54:52 [josema]
+1
13:55:15 [Sharron]
Kevin: Together, we need to project out what we see this world to be in 18-24 months from now. Agency need reassurance that we are working to help them solve these challenges.
13:56:39 [Sharron]
John: The longer I spend working in this area, the more important I understand it to be to start from where people actually are. Narrow the ask down to the very smallest thing we ask folks to do. You lose them fast if they get even a hint that it is difficult or complex.
13:57:34 [Zakim]
-Owen
13:57:45 [Sharron]
...if we ask them to do a small thing, not too painful, show useful outcome. Mix pragmatic, minimum intervention with good outcomes will be most effective I think.
13:58:06 [Zakim]
-Rachel
13:58:11 [AdamHarvey]
You'll get better buy-in from local govts with the small approach too
13:58:16 [johnlsheridan]
thanks Rachel
13:58:51 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:58:51 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "What else is going on/coming up?" taken up [from josema]
13:59:03 [johnlsheridan]
q+
13:59:34 [Sharron]
Kevin: SE conference at the beginning of October.
13:59:36 [Owen]
Owen has joined #egov
13:59:49 [josema]
ack jo
13:59:52 [johnlsheridan]
http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page20595
14:00:10 [Zakim]
+??P46
14:00:24 [josema]
that was "[UK] PM welcomes Sir Tim Berners-Lee to Downing Street"
14:00:33 [Sharron]
John: Update on what is happening here, posted a link to a story about a presentation that Tim gave to the Cabinet. It went very well
14:01:09 [AdamHarvey]
Any thoughts on data.gov apps like: http://www.datamasher.org/ or http://www.thisweknow.org/
14:02:03 [Sharron]
Jose: Blogged about linked data yesterday...but it is in Spanish.
14:02:30 [Sharron]
...have a number of interesting things around modeling data, so far all internal.
14:02:37 [johnlsheridan]
What type of data are you modelling?
14:03:12 [johnlsheridan]
Would love to see examples ;)
14:03:14 [Zakim]
-Brand
14:03:16 [Sharron]
Jose: Will have more specifics by end of the month.
14:03:57 [Sharron]
...lifelong learning offer from state government. Three different data sets combined to be meaningful.
14:04:03 [johnlsheridan]
often the most interesting data and apps don't involve complex modelling
14:04:41 [AdamHarvey]
Right on
14:04:51 [josema]
q+ about thisweknow
14:05:46 [josema]
ack ab
14:05:48 [josema]
ac th
14:06:03 [josema]
http://www.thisweknow.org/l/CO/Gunnison
14:06:17 [josema]
"1 Official reported on 1 Factory (within 36 mi.) "
14:06:31 [josema]
"tweet this"
14:07:13 [Sharron]
Jose: In the first version, the tweet was meaningless. But it seems they have fixed this.
14:08:36 [Sharron]
Kevin: Economic forum - Extreme Users Derive ? Value
14:09:01 [johnlsheridan]
those crazy guys!
14:09:03 [Sharron]
Action: Sharron to contact Kevin about attending
14:09:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-91 - Contact Kevin about attending [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-09-23].
14:09:19 [josema]
s/this./this, adding the name of the town at the end.
14:09:22 [AdamHarvey]
There's all kinds of places like that out west... :)
14:09:37 [josema]
agenda?
14:11:06 [Sharron]
Kevin: Develop some panel ideas, keep in a queue
14:12:30 [johnlsheridan]
not from me
14:12:31 [AdamHarvey]
nothing here...
14:12:34 [Sharron]
...anything else?
14:12:36 [josema]
nope
14:14:28 [Sharron]
Kevin: Don't anticipate much change to the Charter, we should have a decision by the time of next scheduled meeting. Getting together at TPAC, we will work on the media panel. Egov is part of plenary agenda.
14:14:57 [johnlsheridan]
its good
14:14:59 [Sharron]
...profile of eGov has been raised
14:15:43 [Sharron]
Owen: Next meeting occurs during XML conference, so I won't attend this meeting.
14:16:40 [Sharron]
...XML tool summit in the afternoon is free
14:17:06 [josema]
[ADJOURNED]
14:17:07 [johnlsheridan]
sounds good
14:17:11 [Sharron]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-egov-minutes.html Sharron
14:17:16 [johnlsheridan]
Nop, nothing to add - good call today!
14:17:17 [AdamHarvey]
hasta luego
14:17:17 [Zakim]
-Sharron
14:17:19 [Zakim]
-kevin
14:17:20 [Zakim]
-Sandro
14:17:20 [Zakim]
-??P46
14:17:22 [Zakim]
-AdamHarvey
14:17:31 [Zakim]
-johnlsheridan
14:17:39 [josema]
zakim, list attendees
14:17:39 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Josema, +1.202.731.aaaa, kevin, Owen, Sharron, Sandro, +1.202.564.aabb, Brand, +0203334aacc, johnlsheridan, +1.216.443.aadd,
14:17:41 [kevin]
kevin has left #egov
14:17:43 [Zakim]
... +1.509.464.aaee, AdamHarvey, Rachel
14:17:49 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-egov-minutes.html josema
14:18:28 [Zakim]
-Josema
14:18:29 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:18:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were Josema, +1.202.731.aaaa, kevin, Owen, Sharron, Sandro, +1.202.564.aabb, Brand, +0203334aacc, johnlsheridan, +1.216.443.aadd, +1.509.464.aaee, AdamHarvey, Rachel
14:42:56 [josema]
rrsagent, bye
14:42:56 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-egov-actions.rdf :
14:42:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sandro to ivestigate and report back [1]
14:42:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-egov-irc#T13-23-57
14:42:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sharron to contact Kevin about attending [2]
14:42:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-egov-irc#T14-09-03