13:22:33 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:22:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-dap-irc 13:22:35 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:22:35 Zakim has joined #dap 13:22:37 Zakim, this will be 13:22:37 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:22:38 Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference 13:22:38 Date: 16 September 2009 13:25:17 Chair: Robin Berjon, Frederick Hirsch 13:26:39 Regrets: Daniel_Baiges 13:29:43 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0031.html 13:31:24 Present: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch, Thomas_Roessler, Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux, Anssi_Kostiainen 13:33:49 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:33:49 ok, dom; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes 13:35:03 Regrets+ DanielColoma, DavidRogers 13:36:55 Present+ Max_Froumentin 13:41:53 RRSAgent, bookmark 13:41:53 See http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-dap-irc#T13-41-53 13:43:00 Scribe: Max_Froumentin 13:43:05 ScribeNick: maxf 13:44:20 trackbot, help 13:44:20 See http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 13:47:31 some scribe instructions are here 13:47:47 http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Group/Scribe-Instructions.html 13:47:55 but we've done the initial set up already 13:51:08 jcantera has joined #dap 13:51:44 when you join, please use irc to register yourself with Present+ your_name 13:51:51 JereK has joined #dap 13:52:35 marengo has joined #dap 13:53:04 hi 13:53:10 3279 13:53:16 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:53:23 +Frederick_Hirsch 13:53:30 s/3279// 13:53:44 marcin has joined #dap 13:53:51 + +035850486aaaa 13:54:13 wonsuk has joined #dap 13:54:15 + +039011228aabb 13:54:41 when you join please register yourself with Present+ name, and update your handle with zakim, aabb is irc-name 13:54:49 Present+ AnssiK 13:55:08 hendry has joined #dap 13:55:14 +wonsuk 13:55:26 Kangchan has joined #dap 13:55:35 Present+ marengo 13:56:20 + +039011228aabb 13:56:30 + +1.242.860.aacc 13:56:42 Hui has joined #dap 13:56:54 +??P40 13:57:10 zakim, +1.242.860.aacc is Kangchan 13:57:10 +Kangchan; got it 13:57:11 marcin2 has joined #dap 13:57:33 when you join, please update the minutes attendance with Present+ your-name and update the phone bridge by mappting your number with zakim, e.g. zakim, aabb is maxf etc 13:57:53 Present+ Kangchan 13:57:59 zakim, +039011228aabb is marengo 13:57:59 +marengo; got it 13:58:06 Present+ marcin2 13:58:14 Present+ wonsuk 13:58:38 +??P41 13:58:42 if you use a real name with the Present+ command then your real name will appear in the minutes attendance... 13:58:43 + +358.504.86aadd 13:59:07 when you join, please update the minutes attendance with Present+ your-name and update the phone bridge by mappting your number with zakim, e.g. zakim, aabb is maxf etc 13:59:10 LA has joined #dap 13:59:15 +JereK 13:59:21 +Dom 13:59:23 + +2088290aaee 13:59:26 Present+ JereK 13:59:31 + +0472369aaff 13:59:37 zakim, aaee is marcin2 13:59:39 zakim, aaff is me 13:59:40 +marcin2; got it 13:59:42 +maxf; got it 13:59:44 + +1.503.521.aagg 13:59:46 zakim, mute me 13:59:48 Dom should now be muted 13:59:50 zakim, who's noisy? 14:00:00 dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +358.504.86aadd (86%), ??P41 (6%) 14:00:21 Zakim: pick up the phone dammit! 14:00:28 + +044777541aahh 14:00:32 Present+ ilkka 14:00:32 when you join, please update the minutes attendance with Present+ your-name and update the phone bridge by mappting your number with zakim, e.g. zakim, aabb is maxf etc 14:00:58 + +04922aaii 14:01:17 when you join, please update the minutes attendance with Present+ your-name and update the phone bridge by mappting your number with zakim, e.g. zakim, aabb is maxf etc 14:01:19 +arve 14:01:27 arve has joined #dap 14:01:29 +Ingmar_Kliche 14:01:35 Present+ LA 14:01:39 Zakim, who is here? 14:01:39 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, AnssiK, marengo, wonsuk, Kangchan, ??P40, ??P41, +358.504.86aadd, JereK, Dom (muted), marcin2, maxf, +1.503.521.aagg, +044777541aahh, 14:01:42 ... +04922aaii, arve, Ingmar_Kliche 14:01:44 On IRC I see arve, LA, marcin2, Hui, Kangchan, hendry, wonsuk, marcin, marengo, JereK, jcantera, Zakim, RRSAgent, fhirsch, AnssiK, ArtB, ilkka, tlr, darobin, arg, blassey, maxf, 14:01:44 zakim, +358.504.86aadd is ilkka 14:01:46 ... trackbot, dom 14:01:46 +ilkka; got it 14:01:58 +darobin 14:02:03 w00t! 14:02:03 katrin has joined #dap 14:02:13 I see zakim knew my home number already 14:02:20 zakim, mute ilkka 14:02:21 ilkka should now be muted 14:02:26 Zakim, mute me 14:02:26 arve should now be muted 14:02:29 yes, LA Laura Arribas 14:02:39 + +1.617.417.aajj 14:02:46 s/LA/Laura Arribas/ 14:02:53 zakim, unmute me 14:02:53 Dom should no longer be muted 14:03:04 Zakim, unmute me 14:03:04 arve should no longer be muted 14:03:10 zakim, aajj is StephenLewontin 14:03:10 +StephenLewontin; got it 14:03:44 zakim, who's on the phone? 14:03:44 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, AnssiK, marengo, wonsuk, Kangchan, ??P40, ??P41 (muted), ilkka (muted), JereK, Dom, marcin2, maxf, +1.503.521.aagg, +044777541aahh, +04922aaii, 14:03:47 ... arve, Ingmar_Kliche, darobin, StephenLewontin 14:03:55 zakim, who's muted? 14:03:57 I see ??P41, ilkka muted 14:04:00 zakim, aagg is Dzung Tran 14:04:00 I don't understand 'aagg is Dzung Tran', dom 14:04:04 zakim, unmute ilkka 14:04:04 ilkka should no longer be muted 14:04:05 zakim, aagg is DzungTran 14:04:05 +DzungTran; got it 14:04:24 zakim, mute ilkka 14:04:24 ilkka should now be muted 14:04:38 zakim, who's on the phone? 14:04:38 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, AnssiK, marengo, wonsuk, Kangchan, ??P40, ??P41 (muted), ilkka (muted), JereK, Dom, marcin2, maxf, DzungTran, +044777541aahh, +04922aaii, arve, 14:04:41 zakim, ??P41 may be Hui 14:04:41 ... Ingmar_Kliche, darobin, StephenLewontin 14:04:41 +Hui?; got it 14:04:52 paddy has joined #dap 14:05:22 ingmar has joined #dap 14:05:36 -> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43696 Group's list of participants 14:05:41 Zakim, mute me 14:05:41 arve should now be muted 14:06:05 ScribeNick: maxf 14:06:11 zakim, mute me 14:06:11 marengo should now be muted 14:06:13 Scribe: maxf 14:06:41 + +46.1.08.01.aakk 14:07:25 zakim, aakk is maybe Claes 14:07:25 I don't understand 'aakk is maybe Claes', dom 14:07:34 zakim, aakk is probably Claes 14:07:34 +Claes?; got it 14:07:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0031.html 14:08:51 zakim, +044777541aahh is Laura Arribas 14:08:51 I don't understand '+044777541aahh is Laura Arribas', LA 14:09:01 zakim, aahh is LauraArribas 14:09:01 +LauraArribas; got it 14:09:09 Present+ 14:09:18 agenda? 14:09:25 Present+ Paddy Byers 14:10:03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0031.html 14:10:38 Zakim, unmute me 14:10:38 arve should no longer be muted 14:10:39 fhirsch: ok with agenda? 14:10:45 [agreement] 14:11:08 zakim, call thomas-skype 14:11:08 ok, tlr; the call is being made 14:11:10 +Thomas 14:11:21 zakim, I am thomas 14:11:21 ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas 14:11:22 zakim, mute me 14:11:22 Thomas should now be muted 14:11:23 +1 for current agenda 14:11:26 richt has joined #dap 14:11:46 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Meetings/London/w3cprocess-intro a few (re-used) slides 14:11:57 fhirsch: agenda item 2, introduction to W3C 14:11:59 + +0208849aall 14:12:08 zakim, mute me 14:12:08 arve should now be muted 14:13:02 dom: [goes through slides above] 14:14:20 Topic: introduction to W3C 14:14:42 the full story on Recommendation Track: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#Reports 14:23:22 cgi-irc has joined #dap 14:24:13 zalan has joined #dap 14:25:08 q+ 14:25:14 ack fhirsch 14:25:30 q+ 14:25:34 ack thom 14:25:36 fhirsch: about the submissions, is there anything special to say. e.g. Bondi? 14:26:13 tlr: behind the scenes W3C and Bondi staff have been chasing companies involed with Bondi 14:26:48 ... it is my understanding that all companies involved in Bondi will join W3C or in one case have made a commitment to the WG 14:27:02 ... (royalty free commitment) 14:27:44 ... also, a few companies have indicated interest in future Bondi work. These companies will either join this group or make a similar comitment 14:28:03 ... so I think we're good to go and don't have an IPR concern. 14:28:06 Claes has joined #dap 14:28:09 s/Bondi staff/OMTP staff/ 14:28:29 s/will join W3C/have joined the WG/ 14:28:31 JonathanJ has joined #DAP 14:28:39 fhirsch: from a chairing perspective, we don't like to talk about IPR, so we'll avoid it as much as possible 14:28:57 darobin: as participant you're more than welcome to raise any issue youre aware of 14:29:00 q? 14:29:04 zakim, mute me 14:29:04 Thomas should now be muted 14:29:13 Topic: General Logistics 14:29:27 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/ Device APIs and Policy Working Group home page 14:29:29 zakim, mute me 14:29:29 Dom should now be muted 14:30:03 fhirsch: we have a weekly call now scheduled, an IRC channel. There are instructions on our site. 14:30:25 ... people should be familiar with IRC queues, tracking, agenda, etc. 14:30:27 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/ DAP WG Tracker 14:31:01 darobin: the tracker is not just for chairs. People can give themselves action items. 14:31:17 fhirsch: chairs welcome help with maintaining and editing actions 14:31:48 ... good form to keep status up to date, link emails to actions, etc. 14:32:00 ACTION-1? 14:32:00 ACTION-1 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to create scheduling questionnaire and distribute to WG -- due 2009-09-09 -- CLOSED 14:32:00 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/1 14:32:13 ... tracker can be used either in IRC, or on the web directly 14:32:29 ISSUE-4? 14:32:29 ISSUE-4 -- API Versioning -- RAISED 14:32:29 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/4 14:32:41 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc Tracker IRC documentation 14:33:35 darobin: there are a lot of tools, it's ok to ask questions about them, because we know it can be overwhelming at first 14:34:11 fhirsch: we need to keep a record of the decisoin made, and those tools help avoiding needless controversies. 14:34:23 ack me 14:34:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC09/ Registration for DAP WG F2F at TPAC 2009 (Nov 2-3) 14:34:42 fhirsch: no apparent issue with weekly telecon time. So left as it 14:34:43 zakim, mute me 14:34:43 Dom should now be muted 14:34:47 s/it/is/ 14:34:57 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC09/registrants#DevA Current registrants for F2F 14:35:20 ... TPAC: this group is meeting. Please join us and register early. 14:35:25 [50$ fee supposed to be raised to 75$ on Sep 21st] 14:36:08 ... it's useful for the chairs to know who's going to be there, or who's going to be on the phone 14:36:29 ... we might want to have a questionnaire to know that. 14:36:40 ... but we can take that offline. 14:36:54 Topic: Announcements 14:36:57 [if anyone is interested in attending the F2F by phone, let me know and I'll see if that's an option] 14:37:02 fhirsch: I don't have any 14:37:07 darobin: nope 14:37:08 Zakim, unmute me 14:37:08 arve should no longer be muted 14:37:28 arve: about the face to face meeting, I'll be participating on the phone 14:37:37 ACTION: thomas to set up dial-in questionnaire for face-to-face 14:37:37 Created ACTION-7 - Set up dial-in questionnaire for face-to-face [on Thomas Roessler - due 2009-09-23]. 14:37:46 zakim, mute me 14:37:46 arve should now be muted 14:37:57 Topic: Charter Walk-Through 14:38:10 http://www.w3.org/2009/05/DeviceAPICharter 14:38:30 rrsagent, make minutes 14:38:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-dap-minutes.html JonathanJ 14:39:06 fhirsch goes through charter 14:39:22 -> http://www.w3.org/2008/security-ws/report Workshop report 14:39:53 q? 14:40:36 ack arve 14:40:36 ack arve 14:40:58 arve: about the f2fs. Will we try to coordinate with other WGs like webapps? 14:41:12 q+ 14:41:21 fhirsch: personally, it's up to the WG, timing, etc. It's generally a good thing to do 14:41:40 q? 14:41:45 darobin: difficult to focus on a single WG to coordinate with, but worth investigating 14:42:00 ack marcin 14:42:17 arve: I'm happy with the answer 14:43:02 pronouciation guide for my name: ar-vë 14:43:04 marcin: about TPAC logistics. A person currently attend DAP or Webapps. Art Barstow is making sure it's going to be addressed 14:43:12 [I think we might want to consider a joint meeting with WebApps WG] 14:43:20 ack thom 14:43:29 fhirsch: other conflicts exists, too 14:43:47 tlr: [looking at schedule] 14:44:05 ... unlikely to be able to make major rearrangements, unfortunately 14:44:25 ... not sure what we can do about it. 14:44:40 fhirsch: chairs will do their best, but can only do so much. 14:44:53 zakim, mute me 14:44:53 Thomas should now be muted 14:45:15 action: frederick to work with Robin and Team on TPAC schedule 14:45:16 Created ACTION-8 - Work with Robin and Team on TPAC schedule [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2009-09-23]. 14:46:08 zakim, who is here? 14:46:08 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, AnssiK (muted), marengo (muted), wonsuk, Kangchan, ??P40, Hui?, ilkka (muted), JereK, Dom (muted), marcin2, maxf, DzungTran, LauraArribas, 14:46:11 On IRC I see JonathanJ, Claes, zalan, richt, ingmar, paddy, katrin, arve, marcin2, Hui, Kangchan, hendry, wonsuk, marcin, marengo, JereK, jcantera, Zakim, RRSAgent, fhirsch, 14:46:15 ... +04922aaii, arve (muted), Ingmar_Kliche, darobin, StephenLewontin, Claes?, Thomas (muted), richt 14:46:21 ... AnssiK, ArtB, ilkka, tlr, darobin, arg, blassey, maxf, trackbot, dom 14:46:48 darobin explains the importance of addressing issues like accessibility, i18n, mobility and security 14:47:40 I am on phone as well 14:48:07 darobin: the 2-implementation criterion is minimal. Better to have 2 implementations implementing *all* features 14:48:37 Present+ Claes 14:48:49 yes, I use +33 14:49:19 darobin: general idea about deliverables is to have 1 document for each API. 14:49:51 ... requires quite a few editors, and also prioritisation, but we can check that later 14:50:00 ? 14:50:04 q+ 14:50:11 ack kangchan 14:50:39 Kangchan: [scribe missed] 14:52:00 fhirsch: we could create task forces with other groups, we could add deliverables. But our first task is to make a roadmap 14:52:15 My question is that in the WG charter, Devices in this WG is identified such as desktop computers, laptop computers, mobile internet devices (MIDs), cellular phones, etc. Is Television also one of the target devices? 14:52:49 Kangchan, right, the list is not exhaustive — all target devices are relevant 14:53:00 kangchan, as darobin just said on IRC, we're Any Device, Anywhere, Any Time, so this is a list of examples. Yes, TV is in scope. 14:53:16 ... informal dependencies are good, so I'd like to find out who is involved in other groups. 14:54:03 ... about tracking and actions I'd rather not get blocked on something someone is supposed to do and can't 14:54:20 ... rules for Good Standing aren't that strict 14:54:47 darobin: good standing isn't enforced stricltly, but more important within the editors pool 14:55:24 fhirsch: remember that technical discussions should happen on the public list 14:55:39 ... minutes are also published in public 14:56:13 Topic: Editors 14:56:34 zakim, who is making noise? 14:56:50 tlr, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Frederick_Hirsch (3%), darobin (100%), StephenLewontin (24%) 14:56:55 darobin: specification editors transform WG decisions into text 14:56:57 zakim, mute StephenLewontin 14:56:57 StephenLewontin should now be muted 14:57:11 ... no need to go through editor work right now. 14:57:21 ... plenty of resources on the W3C site 14:57:44 ... we chose to have 1 editor for each API and for policy 14:57:53 abraun has joined #dap 14:58:21 s/1 editor/an set of editors 14:58:34 ... we welcome more people. If you're not sure, please talk to the chairs offline. We can assist with techniques and give you an idea about time commitment 14:59:03 [scribe missed question] 14:59:40 darobin: not just 1 editor for all the documents, but a pool of editors. 14:59:55 fhirsch: different specs could move at different speeds, too 15:00:16 darobin: putting all APIs in 1 document would be a problem if a problem arose. 15:00:42 ... at Last Call, if there are any issues 15:00:50 [??? volunteers] 15:01:11 q+ 15:01:17 fhirsch: we could use more help on the policy too 15:01:25 ack arve 15:01:31 arve: noting that figuring out the pool could be done later as well 15:01:44 fhirsch: definitely 15:01:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:01:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-dap-minutes.html JonathanJ 15:01:46 q- 15:02:22 ... although it's helpful to know early, for practical reasons 15:02:48 Topic: Policy Segment 15:03:09 fhirsch: as chairs it's important to know who's going to make submissions, or update them 15:03:33 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/ 15:03:37 ... we have contributions listed on the home page already 15:04:13 ... I don't believe there's a lot in the Nokia submissions on policy. There has been an update in Bondi though 15:04:48 ... talks about packaging, widget signing, etc. Uses webapps spec and adds requirements. Then talks about features. 15:05:22 ... there are 2 security areas, can't go into details, but features let you say what things you need to do 15:05:37 ... access and permissions associated with capabilities, etc. 15:05:56 zakim, who's noisy? 15:06:06 dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (38%) 15:06:10 zakim, mute darobin 15:06:10 darobin should now be muted 15:07:07 Zakim, unmute me 15:07:07 darobin should no longer be muted 15:07:10 Topic: APIs Segment 15:07:36 darobin: some work has started on the mailing list. 15:07:40 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open 15:07:46 ... I'd like to look quickly at open issues 15:08:12 ... first 4 are about API style 15:08:48 ... Strawpoll on ISSUE-4 was unanymous but I'd like to keep them all open 15:09:12 ... some decisions on style will be obvious as we start 15:09:28 issue-4? 15:09:28 ISSUE-4 -- API Versioning -- OPEN 15:09:28 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/4 15:09:37 ... any objections about issue 4? 15:09:43 [none] 15:09:45 RESOLUTION: issue-4 closed 15:09:48 darobin: now closed. 15:10:46 marcin: input document will be submitted to BONDI and W3C soon (1 week) 15:11:17 darobin: issues 5 to 16 15:11:35 ... we are trying avoid to go through a heavyweight requirement gathering process 15:11:49 ... we'll switch to heavier if lightweight fails 15:12:13 ... I started drafting requirements for 2 examples 15:12:20 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview.html 15:12:35 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/file-system/Overview.html 15:12:58 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:12:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-dap-minutes.html ArtB 15:13:02 ... would be helpful if people would send requirement for each APIs 15:13:13 ... by no means the documents are final 15:13:28 ... who would like to volunteer to submit requirements? 15:13:51 -Frederick_Hirsch 15:13:53 ... application configuration: nothing yet 15:14:12 zakim, unmute me 15:14:12 arve should no longer be muted 15:14:18 ... application launcher. [no response]. 15:14:46 arve: how about merging the 2 issues for now and gather requirements in 1 go? 15:15:00 darobin: fine with that 15:15:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:15:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/16-dap-minutes.html JonathanJ 15:16:01 ACTION: arve to draft requirements for App Conf & App Launcher, possibly by getting maxf or Marcos to do it 15:16:01 Created ACTION-9 - Draft requirements for App Conf & App Launcher, possibly by getting maxf or Marcos to do it [on Arve Bersvendsen - due 2009-09-23]. 15:16:22 darobin: calendar API? 15:16:40 ???: perhaps requirements should be given to more than one person 15:16:55 darobin: of course, the final reqs wouldn't be from just one person 15:17:03 q+ 15:17:10 s/???/JK/ 15:17:25 richt: was wondering about the level of reqs. Written? Mailing list posts? 15:17:42 darobin: just mailing list ok. Similar level to the example ones (high-level functional) 15:17:58 arve: look at File I/O, for instance 15:18:03 q- 15:18:14 darobin: any takers for calendar? [none] 15:18:37 ... communication log? [none] 15:18:38 -richt 15:18:51 ... contacts? Robin volunteers 15:18:56 action: robin to do requirements for contacts 15:18:57 Created ACTION-10 - Do requirements for contacts [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-09-23]. 15:19:20 ... gallery? [none] 15:19:21 present+ JonathanJ 15:19:26 ... any other? 15:19:52 Don? from Intel: taking issue-14 15:20:23 +richt 15:20:32 ... is there a description of what those APIs are? 15:20:41 darobin: yes, in the charter. 15:21:10 Don?: how would I bring up other items about new APIs? 15:21:28 ... first submit it to the list, then we'll figure out if we need a new charter 15:21:39 s/.../darobin/ 15:21:52 has each editor of existing BONDI apis emailed to ask to become W3C editors? 15:22:08 DAP open issues: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open 15:22:17 ... any opinions on prioritization among specifications? 15:22:24 q+ 15:22:25 ... are there any we should focus on first? 15:22:44 could I suggest messaging, contacts and filesystem? 15:22:46