[09:02am] DKA: Agenda:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html
[09:02am] • oshani Zakim, mute me
[09:02am] • Zakim oshani should now be muted
[09:03am] petef: zakim, who is speaking?
[09:03am] melvster: Zakim, ??P6 is me
[09:03am] Zakim: +melvster; got it
[09:03am] Zakim: petef, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from
the following: +1.510.931.aacc (50%), +7.970.94.aabb (54%)
[09:03am] • caribou zakim, call carine-617
[09:03am] • Zakim ok, caribou; the call is being made
[09:03am] Zakim: +Carine
[09:03am] cperey: zakim, +1.617.848.aadd is me
[09:03am] Zakim: +cperey; got it
[09:03am] tpa: Zakim, who is on the line?
[09:03am] Zakim: I don't understand your question, tpa.
[09:03am] tpa: Zakim, who is here?
[09:03am] Zakim: On the phone I see +63.59.2.aaaa, +7.970.94.aabb,
+1.510.931.aacc, DKA, melvster, oshani (muted), cperey, Carine
[09:03am] Zakim: On IRC I see cperey, Zakim, bblfish, DKA, petef, tpa,
melvster, pchampin, AndreaP, caribou, oshani, raphael, trackbot,
FabGandon, MacTed, karl
[09:03am] tpa: Zakim, aaaa is me
[09:03am] Zakim: +tpa; got it
[09:03am] bblfish: does zakim see me?
[09:04am] petef: zakim, +7.970.94.aabb is me
[09:04am] Zakim: +petef; got it
[09:04am] Zakim: + +39.011.228.aaee
[09:04am] DKA: zakim, who's here?
[09:04am] Zakim: On the phone I see tpa, petef, +1.510.931.aacc, DKA,
melvster, oshani (muted), cperey, Carine, +39.011.228.aaee
[09:04am] Zakim: On IRC I see cperey, Zakim, bblfish, DKA, petef, tpa,
melvster, pchampin, AndreaP, caribou, oshani, raphael, trackbot,
FabGandon, MacTed, karl
[09:04am] Zakim: + +1.617.838.aaff
[09:05am] oshani: DKA, I can  scribe
[09:05am] MacTed: Zakim, aaff is me
[09:05am] Zakim: +MacTed; got it
[09:05am] DKA: Scribe: Oshani
[09:05am] DKA: ScribeNick: Oshani
[09:05am] petef: despite giving my apologies in advance I am here
[09:06am] DKA: Last week's minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-swxg-minutes.html
[09:06am] oshani: DKA: Last week's agenda
[09:06am] claudio joined the chat room.
[09:06am] oshani: ... user stories, and actions
[09:07am] oshani: .... follow up on those
[09:07am] oshani: .... next week, we're having the regular call
[09:07am] oshani: .... the guest speaker is ? talking about Ubi web
[09:07am] petef: Dave Raggett
[09:07am] Zakim: +??P13
[09:07am] AndreaP: zakim, ??p13 is me
[09:07am] Zakim: +AndreaP; got it
[09:08am] DKA: q?
[09:08am] • Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[09:08am] DKA: Topic: TPAC
[09:09am] oshani: DKA: registration call out to anybody who's attending that
[09:09am] oshani: ... $50 before Sep 21st
[09:09am] DKA: TPAC Registration Form:
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC09/
[09:10am] oshani: ... we have a slot in the TPAC agenda on Monday
[09:11am] oshani: ... we have to reach out beyond the W3C community
[09:11am] cperey: mixture of both
[09:11am] oshani: ... agenda: series of panels? presentations? mixture of both?
[09:12am] oshani: ... could be similar to the workshop in Barcelona
[09:12am] cperey: but we could provide a short paper capturing the
highlights of what we have done already?
[09:12am] cperey: I think reading the wiki might be daunting
[09:13am] oshani: ... update the wiki on things that we'd want to discuss
[09:13am] Zakim: + +95177aagg
[09:13am] cperey: +q
[09:13am] • Zakim sees cperey on the speaker queue
[09:14am] DKA: zakim, mute aagg
[09:14am] Zakim: +95177aagg should now be muted
[09:14am] • pchampin zakim, aagg is me
[09:14am] • Zakim +pchampin; got it
[09:14am] • pchampin zakim, mute me
[09:14am] • Zakim pchampin was already muted, pchampin
[09:14am] DKA: ack cp
[09:14am] • Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[09:14am] • pchampin didn't mean to do such a remarked late arrival
[09:15am] oshani: cperey: wondering if we should take it out of the
TPAC agenda and do as a sub-committe
[09:15am] oshani: DKA: are you volunteering for that?
[09:15am] oshani: cperey: I can volunteer to be part of that team
[09:15am] oshani: DKA: I'll help
[09:16am] DKA: ACTION: Christine to start a wiki page about the open
day session at TPAC.
[09:16am] • trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
[09:16am] trackbot: Created ACTION-81 - Start a wiki page about the
open day session at TPAC. [on Christine Perey - due 2009-09-16].
[09:17am] oshani: Topic: Invited Guests
[09:17am] melvster: i think mischa and danbri are at the london linked
data meetup, timbl there too ...
[09:17am] hhalpin joined the chat room.
[09:18am] oshani: DKA: Is Harry on the call to discuss the
dataportability thing on the agenda?
[09:18am] • hhalpin dialing in, apologies about being late...printing
ph.d. thesis
[09:18am] oshani: Topic: User Stories
[09:18am] cperey: congrtas on thesis!
[09:18am] • hhalpin so move to next agenda item and we can discuss it next.
[09:18am] • oshani Zakim, unmute me
[09:18am] • Zakim oshani should no longer be muted
[09:19am] DKA: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Document_Takedowns
[09:19am] Zakim: +??P15
[09:20am] DKA: zakim, ??p15 is hhalpin
[09:20am] Zakim: +hhalpin; got it
[09:20am] oshani: Topic: Guest invitations
[09:21am] oshani: hhalpin: Do ppl want to move on to portability and
architecture?
[09:22am] hhalpin: OAuth - Ben Laurie
[09:22am] hhalpin: (Google)
[09:22am] hhalpin: OpenID - ??
[09:22am] hhalpin: XRD - Eran (Yahoo!)
[09:22am] oshani: David Recordan for OpenID?
[09:23am] hhalpin: Facebook?
[09:23am] hhalpin: OpenID/ID-related issues first, then portability...
[09:23am] hhalpin: or othr way around?
[09:23am] • caribou thinks someone from Facebook is interesting...
[09:23am] petef: Sounds reasonable either way round
[09:23am] oshani: DKA: depends on what their schedule/constraints are
[09:23am] oshani: hhalpin: I'll follow up with them
[09:24am] oshani: ... by Dec we should work on the final report
[09:24am] oshani: DKA: any other thoughts? recommendations?
[09:24am] petef: I have been in touch with Kevin Smith of the XSF
[09:24am] melvster: OpenID folks: David Recordon, head of open web at
Facebook, Brad Fitzpatrick -- Social graph API Google, Drummon Read
Oasis, Eran from Yahoo
[09:24am] petef: I notice XMPP gets a mention in conjunction with data
portability
[09:24am] hhalpin: Peter St. Audre
[09:24am] petef: Great
[09:24am] oshani: hhalpin: we'll put these on the wiki
[09:25am] hhalpin: 10 more guest speakers
[09:25am] petef: Where is the list on the wiki?
[09:25am] petef: of future speakers
[09:25am] hhalpin: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests
[09:25am] petef: Ta
[09:25am] oshani: ... that's the short list of speaker, need to be updated
[09:27am] hhalpin: ACTION: DKA to double-check on TPAC, make sure SWXG
is booked.
[09:27am] • trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
[09:27am] trackbot: Created ACTION-82 - Double-check on TPAC, make
sure SWXG is booked. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-09-16].
[09:27am] hhalpin: Internet Identity Workshop...
[09:28am] oshani: hhalpin: is it happening the same day as the Intenet
Identity Workshop?
[09:28am] hhalpin: Monday then would be ideal.
[09:28am] oshani: DKA: back to user stories
[09:28am] bblfish: I think there were a few new user stories
[09:29am] bblfish: that we did not cover
[09:29am] oshani: hhalpin: We have to go thru the ones that were added
after creating the questionnaire
[09:30am] oshani: ... we didn;t look at Shills use case
[09:30am] hhalpin: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
[09:30am] oshani: ... social web for business intelligence
[09:30am] hhalpin:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Current_Location_as_a_Direction
[09:30am] oshani: DKA: did we cover inference on contexual data?
[09:33am] hhalpin: Combine the two?
[09:33am] hhalpin: "Inference" and "Location as direction" on geo data.
[09:33am] bblfish: there was also "Social Web for the Enterprise"
http://www.w3.org/mid/44989929-C352-4DE0-B542-2B27B70C4161@Sun.Com
[09:33am] hhalpin: Ah good catch bblfish
[09:34am] hhalpin: We should go over that one too.
[09:35am] hhalpin: oshani: inferences on geolocation data is a
protection, as you should be able to give it out for a purpose and
they should only use it for that purpose.
[09:36am] bblfish: oshani: ok from your description this is very
similar to data access control
[09:36am] lkagal joined the chat room.
[09:37am] • oshani sorry I seem to have stopped scribing
[09:38am] • hhalpin no worries oshani, your working! We can scribe for you
[09:38am] bblfish: well the use case of "direction" seems to be a use
case about calendaring
[09:38am] hhalpin: DKA: It appears that the cases may not be able to merged
[09:38am] hhalpin: DKA: as one is about intent and direction, and the
other is about access.
[09:38am] bblfish: so one could have different calendaring ontologies,
saying what different possible places one could be at
[09:38am] bblfish: at a certain date
[09:38am] lkagal left the chat room. (Connection reset by peer)
[09:38am] lkagal joined the chat room.
[09:39am] oshani: DKA: lkagal, are you on the call?
[09:39am] hhalpin: oshani: it was milan's use-case he's not on the call
[09:40am] hhalpin: bblfish: Often I could be in a number of different
places in the future.
[09:40am] hhalpin: DKA: So if I said I was going to be in Paris, and
my geolocation was headed in that direction, the system could infer
that I was going to be in Paris
[09:41am] petef: My apologies, I'm going to have to duck out
[09:41am] hhalpin: DKA: Or vice versa, if my direction is in another
direction, then maybe I won't be in Paris
[09:41am] Zakim: -petef
[09:41am] bblfish: well you can meet people you could not otherwise be
able to meet?
[09:41am] petef left the chat room.
[09:41am] oshani: DKA: what is the utlity of this use case ?
[09:41am] oshani: bblfish: if other ppl can see where you will be, it
will help ppl network
[09:42am] pchampin left the chat room. (Ping timeout)
[09:43am] oshani: however, undesirable things like this could also
happen: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6477387.html
[09:44am] hhalpin: bblfish: so you don't want to be like dopplr and
update multiple directions.
[09:44am] oshani: DKA: what can we do with this use case?
[09:44am] Zakim: -pchampin
[09:44am] oshani: hhalpin: the interesting issue is updating of geo
location data
[09:45am] bblfish: the reason why that use case is important for
global social networks is that without a global social network is that
the network of friends on a specialiased SN such a doppler is much too
small for it to be useful
[09:45am] oshani: DKA: there's a strong overlap with inferences and
data protection
[09:45am] hhalpin: bblfish: but just update one network and then the
geo-location should spread.
[09:45am] bblfish: yes, so perhaps it could be rewritten for that
point to stand out more clearly
[09:45am] oshani: ... privacy lens and not a utility aspect (? didn't
really get the idea )
[09:46am] bblfish: geolocation portability use case makes sense
[09:47am] DKA: Geolocation Portability including direction (and intent?)
[09:47am] bblfish: hhalpin: and follow up on access control on the
geolocation data
[09:47am] bblfish: +1
[09:47am] oshani: +1
[09:47am] melvster: +1
[09:48am] bblfish: yes, I think working on how data can be used is an
impossibility
[09:48am] oshani: DKA: the intent, how can we figure it before a violation?
[09:48am] cperey: +1
[09:48am] bblfish: ok so what next?
[09:48am] cperey: need one or more use cases dealing with geolocation
and context
[09:49am] oshani: ACTION: oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability
[09:49am] • trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
[09:49am] trackbot: Created ACTION-83 - Reframe the
geolocation/intent/portability [on Oshani Seneviratne - due
2009-09-16].
[09:50am] hhalpin: DKA: what data is used FOR versus WHO can access it.
[09:51am] bblfish: yes, makes sense there is a distinction there
[09:51am] bblfish: though one has to be very careful not to be too
ambitious about how one specifies what data can be used for
[09:51am] hhalpin: I mean it seems like this is a super-case of
oshani's locaiton
[09:52am] hhalpin: q+
[09:52am] • Zakim sees hhalpin on the speaker queue
[09:52am] DKA: ack hh
[09:52am] • Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[09:52am] hhalpin: Rigo Wenning is we want me talk to..
[09:52am] hhalpin: EU legislation...
[09:52am] DKA left the chat room. (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[09:52am] claudio: +1 for Harry
[09:53am] caribou: Directive 95/46/EC ?
[09:53am] DKA joined the chat room.
[09:53am] DKA: q?
[09:53am] • Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[09:53am] DKA: ack caribou
[09:53am] • Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[09:54am] oshani: caribou: the data you give should only be used for
your purpose only.
[09:54am] oshani: hhalpin: is this technically feasible?
[09:55am] oshani: caribou: we are studying a policy language for that
[09:55am] • oshani I wonder what this language is
[09:56am] oshani: DKA: view this from the copyright land
[09:56am] caribou: s/studying/designing
[09:56am] DKA: s/land/lens
[09:56am] oshani: caribou: it's more open than copyright
[09:56am] DKA: (thinking about the Creative Commons approach - as a
mechanism to specify intent)
[09:56am] oshani: ... number of different purposes for the processing
of data is acceptable
[09:57am] bblfish: ok, this must be very complex. I imagne it does not
make sense for any type of requirement to be legally binding, even if
the user puts it forward
[09:57am] oshani: q+ to talk about CC and intent
[09:57am] • Zakim sees oshani on the speaker queue
[09:58am] DKA: ack osh
[09:58am] Zakim: oshani, you wanted to talk about CC and intent
[09:58am] • Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[09:59am] cperey left the chat room. (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax
IRC Client)
[10:01am] DKA left the chat room. (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[10:01am] Zakim: -cperey
[10:01am] hhalpin: ACTION: caribou to flesh out Data Protection
use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife
[10:01am] • trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
[10:01am] trackbot: Created ACTION-84 - Flesh out Data Protection
use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife
[on Carine Bournez - due 2009-09-16].
[10:01am] bblfish: ok
[10:01am] Zakim: -DKA
[10:01am] Zakim: -Carine
[10:01am] Zakim: -MacTed
[10:01am] Zakim: - +39.011.228.aaee
[10:01am] claudio left the chat room. (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[10:01am] bblfish: hhalpin: will you be in Berlin soon?
[10:01am] Zakim: -tpa
[10:01am] Zakim: -melvster
[10:01am] bblfish: We could then look at some of these todos together
[10:01am] hhalpin: trackbot, end meeting
[10:01am] • trackbot is ending a teleconference
[10:01am] trackbot: Zakim, list attendees
[10:01am] Zakim: As of this point the attendees have been
+63.59.2.aaaa, +1.510.931.aacc, DKA, oshani, melvster, Carine, cperey,
tpa, petef, +39.011.228.aaee, +1.617.838.aaff, MacTed, AndreaP,
[10:02am] trackbot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
[10:02am] trackbot: RRSAgent, bye