IRC log of svg on 2009-09-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:31:38 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
06:31:40 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
06:31:40 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start now
06:31:43 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
06:31:43 [trackbot]
Date: 09 September 2009
06:31:48 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has now started
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06:33:28 [Zakim]
06:33:38 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
06:33:38 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
06:33:47 [Zakim]
06:34:39 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
06:34:39 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
06:34:45 [heycam]
Zakim, mute me
06:34:45 [Zakim]
heycam should now be muted
06:34:51 [heycam]
Zakim, unmute me
06:34:51 [Zakim]
heycam should no longer be muted
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06:36:20 [ChrisL]
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06:39:16 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
06:39:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, anthony, ChrisL
06:39:17 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, shepazu, karl, anthony, trackbot
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06:40:03 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
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+heycam; got it
06:41:32 [heycam]
06:41:35 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
06:42:00 [anthony]
Scribe: anthony
06:42:26 [anthony]
Topic: Returning to two telcons per week
06:42:32 [anthony]
AG: I say yes
06:42:55 [anthony]
CM: ED mentioned we should switch back to two telcons a week
06:43:08 [anthony]
... I feel we're busy with other stuff atm
06:43:54 [anthony]
DS: I've been working on other stuff at the moment
06:44:55 [anthony]
... and people have been on vacation
06:45:07 [anthony]
... I don't think an extra telcon a week for the next three weeks
06:45:13 [anthony]
... will help me much
06:45:18 [anthony]
... as I have heaps of stuff to do still
06:45:23 [ChrisL]
+1, reconsider after f2f
06:45:41 [anthony]
AG: Ok, so maybe we should revisit this after the Open?
06:45:46 [anthony]
CM: Ok sounds good to me
06:46:45 [anthony]
Topic: SVG Open F2F venue, agenda
06:47:57 [anthony]
06:48:53 [anthony]
CM: I don't think JW confirmed this in a telcon
06:50:05 [anthony]
... was hoping he'd put some concrete details on the wiki page
06:50:15 [anthony]
DS: It is at Mozilla
06:50:31 [anthony]
CL: Making those edits now
06:50:57 [anthony]
AG: So turn up 9am on a Sat out the front
06:51:23 [anthony]
06:52:36 [anthony]
AG: Just down the road from where we are staying
06:52:46 [anthony]
CM: for Agenda I'd like to do a final review of SVG in HTML
06:53:01 [anthony]
... I will try to produce a summary of the current status
06:53:05 [anthony]
... before the meetings
06:53:21 [anthony]
... I told the HTML WG we'd do this at the F2F
06:53:27 [anthony]
... and get back to them with any final issues
06:54:07 [anthony]
AG: I'd like to look at the Canvas stuff that Doug split out
06:54:15 [anthony]
CL: I'll have been to an XSL meeting
06:54:21 [anthony]
... the week before
06:54:26 [anthony]
... I'd like to report back on that
06:54:47 [anthony]
... bits they are interested in
06:54:53 [anthony]
... is the path syntax that we use
06:54:56 [anthony]
... to produce shapes
06:55:05 [anthony]
... and they want to use our colour management stuff
06:55:30 [ChrisL]
s/shapes/shapes to flow their text into/
06:55:54 [anthony]
CM: Would be good to look at modules
06:56:06 [anthony]
... and put some stuff into SVG 2.0
06:56:35 [ChrisL]
s/management stuff/management stuff, and thirdly webfonts/
06:56:55 [anthony]
CL: We can still have errata for 2nd edition
06:58:04 [anthony]
... need to decide if we are going to do about the outstanding errata
06:58:26 [anthony]
... I thought we were shooting to get this done before the Open
06:58:31 [anthony]
CM: A few issues
06:58:34 [anthony]
.... and tests
06:58:43 [anthony]
... there's still a number of tests to be reviewed
06:58:46 [anthony]
... and we have to approve those
06:58:52 [anthony]
... and generate a new version of the test suite
06:59:02 [anthony]
... As far as the spec goes there's not much else
07:00:11 [anthony]
AG: Do you think it's feasible to take some time out
07:00:18 [anthony]
... to get some of the test stuff done
07:00:59 [anthony]
CL: It would be good to produce an implementation report for the new tests
07:02:14 [anthony]
... helps to move to recommendation when we can show that various implementations pass those tests
07:02:47 [anthony]
CM: I think now at this stage not all tests will be passed by all implementations
07:03:45 [anthony]
CL: What we want to show is we haven't done random changes
07:04:19 [anthony]
CM: So it's not a concern that not all implementations pass the tests
07:04:38 [anthony]
CL: Do we have an idea of how many implementations pass?
07:04:44 [anthony]
CM: Most were passed by one
07:05:13 [anthony]
... If they were simple things then I could code them up - if they're not much effort
07:05:33 [anthony]
... I think working on the test suite will take the most time
07:05:39 [anthony]
... once we have everyone in the room
07:09:35 [anthony]
ACTION: Cameron to Fill in F2F agenda in wiki page with topics that we would like to discuss at the meeting
07:09:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2665 - Fill in F2F agenda in wiki page with topics that we would like to discuss at the meeting [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-16].
07:16:03 [anthony]
DS: Doug explains Ref tests
07:25:48 [Zakim]
07:26:26 [Zakim]
07:26:33 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
07:26:33 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
07:27:18 [anthony]
Topic: getIntersectionList and getEnclosureList
07:27:25 [anthony]
07:27:33 [anthony]
CM: Looking into these two methods
07:27:43 [anthony]
... and came across an email
07:28:01 [anthony]
... and created an issue from it
07:28:25 [anthony]
... email was from Thomas
07:28:39 [anthony]
... from the test in the description in the methods
07:28:40 [ChrisL]
(anthony, text-tspan-02-b.svg is now reviewed, wiki updated)
07:28:44 [anthony]
... the second argument is not clear
07:30:00 [anthony]
... the spec says the elements drawn underneath are only applicable for the method
07:30:03 [anthony]
... or something like that
07:30:12 [anthony]
... which is unclear
07:30:14 [heycam]
"If not null, then only return elements whose drawing order has them below the given reference element."
07:30:39 [anthony]
AG: I'd interpret that as painters algorithm
07:30:41 [anthony]
... but I could be wrong
07:32:02 [anthony]
CM: Batik has interpreted that as visually painted underneath
07:32:20 [anthony]
... I'm not sure why that would be useful
07:32:33 [anthony]
... the other way of interpreting it is the root of the sub tree
07:33:05 [anthony]
... my guess is that the intention was to use that element as the sub root restriction
07:34:04 [anthony]
AG: I guess it makes sense if you know roughly where the thing you're looking for is
07:34:22 [anthony]
CM: Does anyone know off hand if these two are implemented in Opera
07:35:01 [anthony]
... I know it's not implemented in Webkit or Firefox
07:35:40 [anthony]
... I guess we can discuss this later when ED and JW are around
07:37:18 [anthony]
DS: I think if these aren't widely implemented we should consider
07:37:28 [anthony]
... how to make them more user friendly for SVG 2
07:37:51 [anthony]
CL: Is it because it's worded poorly, or is it because it doesn't seem useful
07:37:56 [anthony]
... we need to find out why
07:38:15 [anthony]
... it would be good to find out what the reason was why it wasn't implemented
07:38:43 [anthony]
DS: If it's not implemented it also gives us an opportunity to figure out if this is what people want to do
07:39:33 [anthony]
... we could see if there's a better way of doing something
07:39:50 [anthony]
Topic: XSLT output dispatching load event
07:40:28 [anthony]
07:41:19 [anthony]
CM: Perhaps we can use the DOM content loaded event
07:41:26 [anthony]
... that gets fired when all of the markup is present
07:41:34 [anthony]
... once everything is run
07:41:42 [anthony]
... and the last tag is parsed
07:42:06 [anthony]
DL: It started in Firefox
07:42:17 [anthony]
CM: I think other browsers have implemented that as well
07:42:48 [anthony]
AG: So you're thinking if we had that
07:43:05 [anthony]
... then XSLT could be dispatched after that event is fired
07:43:52 [anthony]
CM: Yeah, whether the XSLT is created as it is serialised or after everything is loaded
07:43:59 [anthony]
... as long as they look the same
07:44:31 [anthony]
... I looked HTML 5 spec and this issue is pretty much unspecified
07:45:37 [anthony]
CL: they say either way is fine
07:45:51 [anthony]
... We're not going to get much luck in getting in there
07:46:14 [anthony]
... it needs to be in neither spec actually
07:46:28 [anthony]
... my preference is the content author doesn't care which way it's done
07:47:18 [anthony]
CM: Normally when you run the document scripts are run as you parse
07:47:32 [anthony]
... then you have the problem if the scripts are run after everything is parsed
07:48:16 [anthony]
... I wrote a test and it seems I was testing slightly the wrong thing
07:48:26 [anthony]
... but the load event gets dispatched to the window object
07:48:31 [anthony]
... for the XSLT output
07:49:36 [anthony]
... with a load event being dispatched to the window object with HTML
07:49:42 [anthony]
... SVG we don't really have that
07:49:46 [anthony]
... it's dispatched to the element
07:49:56 [anthony]
... so that's where our problems come in
07:54:12 [anthony]
ACTION: Cameron to Email the HTML WG about XSLT generated events and when they should fire
07:54:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2666 - Email the HTML WG about XSLT generated events and when they should fire [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-16].
07:54:24 [heycam]
ACTION-2666: make an issue for it too
07:54:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-2666 Email the HTML WG about XSLT generated events and when they should fire notes added
07:56:37 [heycam]
action: cameron to ferret in batik code to look for linear rgb -> srgb conversion
07:56:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2667 - Ferret in batik code to look for linear rgb -> srgb conversion [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-16].
08:00:20 [Zakim]
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GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has ended
08:00:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Schepers, [IPcaller], anthony, heycam, ChrisL
08:01:33 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
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08:01:39 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
08:01:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate anthony
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