IRC log of wam on 2009-09-03

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc
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RRSAgent, make log public
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ScribeNick: ArtB
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Scribe: Art
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Chair: Art
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Date 3 September 2009
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Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0935.html
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Regrets: Robin, AndyB
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+ +49.208.4.aaaa
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Regrets+ Frederick
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Present+ Marcin
13:03:06 [ArtB]
zakim, aaaa is Marcin
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+Marcin; got it
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Present+ Art
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+Marcos/Arve
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Present+ Marcos
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Present+ Arve
13:04:35 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
13:04:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Art_Barstow, Marcin, Marcos/Arve
13:04:43 [ArtB]
Topic: Review and tweak agenda
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AB: the draft agenda was posted on September 2 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0935.html ). I propose adding View Modes before AOB. Any objections to that?
13:05:26 [ArtB]
AB: any change requests?
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[ None ]
13:05:35 [ArtB]
Topic: Announcements
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AB: Reminders on upcoming deadlines: 1) Sep 14 is deadline to register for Widgets Testing event ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/TestWorkshop2009 ); 2) Sep 15 comment deadline for APIs and Events LCWD; 3) Sep 20 comment deadline for WARP LCWD
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AB: Does anyone have any other short announcements?
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[ None ]
13:06:30 [ArtB]
Topic: P&C spec: comments from PFWG
13:06:38 [ArtB]
AB: on August 27, WAI's Protocols and Formats WG submitted comments against the P&C LCWD ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0843.html ). Although these comments are late, we should still respond to them. Note these comments have been added to the P&C post-LCWD comment tracker ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Widgets/PandC-LCWD-28May2009 ).
13:07:22 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos, have you had a chance to review these?
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MC: just briefly
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... most related to Conformance Checker
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AB: let's make sure we respond
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MC: OK, will do
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ACTION: caceres respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD
13:08:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-399 - Respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-09-10].
13:08:35 [arve]
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AB: ok thanks Marcos; I don't consider this urgent
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sorry for late IRC arrival
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Topic: P&C spec: IRI/URI normalization
13:08:56 [ArtB]
AB: this topic is continued from our 27 August Voice Conf ( http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item03 ). Has anyone received feedback from the I18N WG on this issue ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0644.html )?
13:09:26 [ArtB]
AB: I checked their public mail list and it appears they did not meet on Sept 2
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... but I don't know if they meet weekly or not
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MH: they meet later in the day, Europe time
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AB: Marcos, Marcin - have you received any feedback from them?
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MC: no
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MH: no
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AB: OK, I'll ping Addison
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ACTION: barstow follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec
13:11:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-400 - Follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-09-10].
13:11:31 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on that topic today?
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[ No ]
13:11:42 [ArtB]
Topic: P&C spec: Conformance Checker (CC) requirements
13:11:49 [ArtB]
AB: on IRC yesterday, Marcos raised the question "What are we going to do if no one implements the Conformance Checker (CC) requirements?".
13:12:27 [ArtB]
MC: a question is how to we progress the spec if no one implements the CC reqs
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... we could make a call for implemenations
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... and try to get a commitment
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... Robin indicated in IRC that he could do an impl
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... but I think we want "commericially viable" impls
13:13:07 [abraun]
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... we need impls beyond academic proof of concepts
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AB: what is the status from the MWTS WG on this?
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MC: I don't have a update
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... they did a "quick-and-dirty" impl
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... as part of their validation service
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... an add on to that service would be good
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AB: is anyone willing to extend what MWTS has done to meet our reqs?
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[ No ]
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AB: I guess at this point, all we can say is that at the end of CR we may have some testable assertions for which there is no impl
13:17:01 [Steven]
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AB: perhaps we will be OK if we have test cases and 2 or more impls for the P+C UA product
13:17:21 [Marcos]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/tests/
13:17:24 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:17:24 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
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+Steven
13:17:27 [ArtB]
... even though we may not have impls for the CC product
13:17:29 [Steven]
rrsagent, here?
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See http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc#T13-17-29
13:17:46 [ArtB]
Present+ Steven
13:17:59 [Steven]
zakim, who is on the phone?
13:17:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Art_Barstow, Marcin, Marcos/Arve, Steven
13:18:04 [ArtB]
MC: my priority at the moment is the P+C UA product
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... we will probably have about 200 tests
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AB: anything else on testing Marcos?
13:18:57 [ArtB]
MC: I am having some issues with CVS
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MH: I was having a similar issue a few weeks ago
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... Kai and Dom can help here
13:19:37 [ArtB]
MC: OK; I'll try that
13:19:54 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos, if you continue to have problems let me know
13:20:46 [ArtB]
MC: looking back, we should have built the test suite during Last Call and not wait until CR
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... before we progress any other spec to CR, we should do real work on the test suite
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... especially for Widgets Interface and WARP specs
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... as well as Widgets URI spec
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AB: that seems like a good idea to me
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Topic: Introduction by Steven Pemberton
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AB: Steven, thanks for joining us!
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SP: I am based in Amsterdam
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... been involved with XHMTL, HTML, XForms, CSS, etc.
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... involved with two WGs and some various Task Forces
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... I was asked to help with this group but my time is limited
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AB: OK; thanks for joining and we look forward to having your expertise to help us!
13:25:19 [ArtB]
Topic: widget Interface spec: storage
13:25:28 [ArtB]
AB: last week we discussed Scott Wilson's thread ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0783.html ) related to the Web Storage spec ( http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/ ). Marcos, during our 27 August call you indicated ( http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item06 ) you were going to send a response to Scott.
13:25:55 [ArtB]
MC: I haven't completed that yet
13:26:04 [Zakim]
-Steven
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... but I will respond before the end of the week
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AB: anything else on this topic?
13:26:50 [ArtB]
AB: a new WD of the Web Storage WD should be published next week
13:26:58 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:26:58 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:27:00 [Zakim]
+Steven
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... we need that spec to continue given our dependency on it
13:27:24 [ArtB]
Topic: WARP spec: LC comments from Marcin Hanclik
13:27:56 [ArtB]
AB: on August 27, Marcin submitted comments ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0844.html ) for the WARP LCWD. We want detailed discussions to occur on public-webapps but let's take some time now to let Marcin summarize his proposed changes.
13:28:07 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
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Present+ Bryan
13:28:45 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:28:45 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
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+Steven.a
13:29:14 [ArtB]
MH: the access element and its syntax and semantics
13:29:41 [Zakim]
-Steven.a
13:29:46 [ArtB]
... it would be changed to be based on the feature element
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... I propose some syntax changes
13:30:34 [ArtB]
... the subdomain attr is problematic e.g. doesn't support more protocols
13:30:37 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:30:37 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
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+Steven.a
13:30:48 [ArtB]
... the uri attr is also a prob
13:31:04 [Benoit]
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... e.g. the value "*" is too loose
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Present+ Benoit
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... I propose we move from the access element to the feature element
13:32:05 [ArtB]
... Need to support other protocols beyond http e.g. tel:, sms:, etc.
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+ +45.29.aabb
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-Steven
13:33:37 [ArtB]
MC: we also thought about enabling network via the feature element
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... but we think using access element simplifies the model a bit
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... Doing it all via feature is a bit convoluted
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... The sec policy will permit or not stuff like tel:
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... The feature stuff should eventually go away as things get included by the UA; that they will be there by default
13:35:48 [ArtB]
... I see some value in Marcin's proposal but I prefer the current model
13:35:57 [ArtB]
... Want to hear more feedback from the WG
13:36:38 [ArtB]
MH: we need to define security and policy
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... and that is the scope of the DAP WG
13:37:16 [ArtB]
... don't think WARP should define security model or policy
13:39:23 [ArtB]
... there are several use cases we need to consider against warp e.g. mailto:
13:40:00 [ArtB]
MC: I think we should take this up on the mail list
13:40:05 [ArtB]
MH: I'm OK with that
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... please answer my e-mail
13:40:26 [ArtB]
MC: I will but after I take care of some P+C issues
13:40:56 [ArtB]
... I do think we think about whether WARP is too over-reaching
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... and I also agree we may need to discuss this with DAP
13:41:32 [ArtB]
MH: should we Cc: DAP WG?
13:41:52 [ArtB]
MC: I don't think so; I suspect WARP will end up going back to WD
13:42:04 [ArtB]
AB: further discussions should continue on public-webapps
13:42:36 [ArtB]
... the deadline for comments for WARP LC is 20 September
13:43:07 [ArtB]
AB: are there related discussion in BONDI about WARP?
13:43:15 [ArtB]
MH: yes
13:43:32 [ArtB]
... BONDI has an access requirement
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... we need something like WARP
13:43:51 [ArtB]
... but we access to be done via features
13:44:26 [ArtB]
... we defined an element that similar to WARP's <access> but it is different
13:44:50 [ArtB]
... BONDI wants to be based on W3C spec
13:45:06 [ArtB]
AB: any last comments on this topic?
13:45:11 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:45:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:46:13 [ArtB]
Topic: Widget URIs spec: proposal to publish LCWD
13:46:28 [ArtB]
AB: on September 2 Robin completed his action to get the Widget URIs spec ready for LCWD ( http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-uri/ ). By publishing a LCWD we are stating the spec is functionally complete and meets all of the relevant requirements. Are there any objections to publishing this document as LCWD?
13:47:03 [ArtB]
MC: I have reservations
13:47:14 [ArtB]
... I sent a bunch of feedback about one hour ago
13:47:26 [ArtB]
AB: I haven't looked at it
13:47:48 [ArtB]
MC: the spec meets the relevant reqs
13:47:58 [ArtB]
... but it doesn't define everything that it should
13:48:07 [ArtB]
... it also doesn't have a Conformance section
13:48:17 [ArtB]
... and doesn't define a "product"
13:48:32 [ArtB]
... I think Robin should fix the problems I found before we publish it
13:49:00 [ArtB]
... If he fixes the issues I raised, I think we would have a better LCWD document
13:49:10 [ArtB]
AB: what do others think?
13:49:41 [ArtB]
... Do we wait until Robin addresses MC's concerns or publish as is?
13:49:54 [ArtB]
MC: I think we should fix the problems first
13:50:36 [ArtB]
MH: I need to review MC's comments
13:51:03 [ArtB]
... if Robin can fix MC's comments RS that would be good
13:51:15 [ArtB]
Bryan: I support that as well
13:51:37 [ArtB]
AB: you mean you want MC's comments addressed first?
13:51:39 [ArtB]
Bryan: yes
13:53:04 [ArtB]
AB: I'm hearing the majority of people want to postpone publication until Robin has addressed MC's comments
13:53:10 [ArtB]
... so that's what we will do
13:53:27 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on this topic for today?
13:53:30 [ArtB]
[ No ]
13:53:43 [ArtB]
Topic: View Modes spec: status
13:53:49 [ArtB]
AB: Marcin, what is the status of the View Modes spec ( http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-vm/ ). Has the spec been split?
13:54:19 [ArtB]
MH: the spec isn't split yet but I intend to do the split by the end of the week
13:54:27 [ArtB]
AB: excellent
13:54:36 [ArtB]
AB: any other status to report?
13:54:41 [ArtB]
MH: not today
13:54:52 [ArtB]
AB: anyone else have something for this topic?
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[ No ]
13:55:05 [ArtB]
Topic: AOB
13:55:21 [ArtB]
MH: regarding TPAC
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... can attend as a group participant
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... or as an Observer
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... the UI of the registration form doesn't permit a person to register as a participant for two WGs on the same day
13:57:45 [ArtB]
BS: I have the same issue
13:57:58 [ArtB]
AB: I'll raise this issue with our Team Contacts
13:58:36 [ArtB]
s/BS: I have/Bryan: I have/
13:58:46 [ArtB]
Benoit: WebApps will have two rooms, right?
13:58:48 [ArtB]
AB: yes
13:59:00 [ArtB]
AB: any other AOB items?
13:59:09 [ArtB]
AB: Next meeting: next week, same logistics. This meeting is adjourned.
13:59:21 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
13:59:23 [Zakim]
-Steven.a
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- +45.29.aabb
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-Marcin
13:59:25 [Zakim]
-Marcos/Arve
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RRSAgent, make minutes
13:59:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:00:53 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
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IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Art_Barstow, +49.208.4.aaaa, Marcin, Marcos/Arve, Steven, Bryan_Sullivan, Steven.a, +45.29.aabb
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rrsagent, bye
15:43:02 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-actions.rdf :
15:43:02 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: caceres respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD [1]
15:43:02 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc#T13-08-24
15:43:02 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: barstow follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec [2]
15:43:02 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc#T13-11-16