13:00:11 RRSAgent has joined #wam 13:00:11 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc 13:00:21 RRSAgent, make log public 13:00:27 ScribeNick: ArtB 13:00:29 Scribe: Art 13:00:32 Chair: Art 13:00:36 Date 3 September 2009 13:00:43 Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference 13:00:48 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0935.html 13:01:06 Regrets: Robin, AndyB 13:01:33 Marcos_ has joined #wam 13:02:29 marcin2 has joined #wam 13:02:43 + +49.208.4.aaaa 13:02:48 Regrets+ Frederick 13:02:58 Present+ Marcin 13:03:06 zakim, aaaa is Marcin 13:03:10 +Marcin; got it 13:03:20 Present+ Art 13:04:09 +Marcos/Arve 13:04:17 Present+ Marcos 13:04:21 Present+ Arve 13:04:35 Zakim, who's on the phone? 13:04:35 On the phone I see Art_Barstow, Marcin, Marcos/Arve 13:04:43 Topic: Review and tweak agenda 13:04:52 AB: the draft agenda was posted on September 2 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0935.html ). I propose adding View Modes before AOB. Any objections to that? 13:05:26 AB: any change requests? 13:05:30 [ None ] 13:05:35 Topic: Announcements 13:05:42 AB: Reminders on upcoming deadlines: 1) Sep 14 is deadline to register for Widgets Testing event ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/TestWorkshop2009 ); 2) Sep 15 comment deadline for APIs and Events LCWD; 3) Sep 20 comment deadline for WARP LCWD 13:06:08 AB: Does anyone have any other short announcements? 13:06:15 [ None ] 13:06:30 Topic: P&C spec: comments from PFWG 13:06:38 AB: on August 27, WAI's Protocols and Formats WG submitted comments against the P&C LCWD ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0843.html ). Although these comments are late, we should still respond to them. Note these comments have been added to the P&C post-LCWD comment tracker ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Widgets/PandC-LCWD-28May2009 ). 13:07:22 AB: Marcos, have you had a chance to review these? 13:07:28 MC: just briefly 13:07:35 ... most related to Conformance Checker 13:07:53 AB: let's make sure we respond 13:08:06 MC: OK, will do 13:08:24 ACTION: caceres respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD 13:08:25 Created ACTION-399 - Respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-09-10]. 13:08:35 arve has joined #wam 13:08:40 AB: ok thanks Marcos; I don't consider this urgent 13:08:43 sorry for late IRC arrival 13:08:46 Topic: P&C spec: IRI/URI normalization 13:08:56 AB: this topic is continued from our 27 August Voice Conf ( http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item03 ). Has anyone received feedback from the I18N WG on this issue ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0644.html )? 13:09:26 AB: I checked their public mail list and it appears they did not meet on Sept 2 13:09:45 ... but I don't know if they meet weekly or not 13:10:21 MH: they meet later in the day, Europe time 13:10:39 AB: Marcos, Marcin - have you received any feedback from them? 13:10:42 MC: no 13:10:44 MH: no 13:10:51 AB: OK, I'll ping Addison 13:11:16 ACTION: barstow follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec 13:11:16 Created ACTION-400 - Follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-09-10]. 13:11:31 AB: anything else on that topic today? 13:11:35 [ No ] 13:11:42 Topic: P&C spec: Conformance Checker (CC) requirements 13:11:49 AB: on IRC yesterday, Marcos raised the question "What are we going to do if no one implements the Conformance Checker (CC) requirements?". 13:12:27 MC: a question is how to we progress the spec if no one implements the CC reqs 13:12:37 ... we could make a call for implemenations 13:12:43 arve_ has joined #wam 13:12:44 ... and try to get a commitment 13:12:56 ... Robin indicated in IRC that he could do an impl 13:13:06 ... but I think we want "commericially viable" impls 13:13:07 abraun has joined #wam 13:13:33 ... we need impls beyond academic proof of concepts 13:13:46 AB: what is the status from the MWTS WG on this? 13:13:58 MC: I don't have a update 13:14:08 ... they did a "quick-and-dirty" impl 13:14:20 ... as part of their validation service 13:14:36 ... an add on to that service would be good 13:15:05 AB: is anyone willing to extend what MWTS has done to meet our reqs? 13:15:11 [ No ] 13:15:51 AB: I guess at this point, all we can say is that at the end of CR we may have some testable assertions for which there is no impl 13:17:01 Steven has joined #wam 13:17:17 AB: perhaps we will be OK if we have test cases and 2 or more impls for the P+C UA product 13:17:21 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/tests/ 13:17:24 zakim, dial steven-617 13:17:24 ok, Steven; the call is being made 13:17:26 +Steven 13:17:27 ... even though we may not have impls for the CC product 13:17:29 rrsagent, here? 13:17:29 See http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc#T13-17-29 13:17:46 Present+ Steven 13:17:59 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:17:59 On the phone I see Art_Barstow, Marcin, Marcos/Arve, Steven 13:18:04 MC: my priority at the moment is the P+C UA product 13:18:19 ... we will probably have about 200 tests 13:18:50 AB: anything else on testing Marcos? 13:18:57 MC: I am having some issues with CVS 13:19:15 MH: I was having a similar issue a few weeks ago 13:19:27 ... Kai and Dom can help here 13:19:37 MC: OK; I'll try that 13:19:54 AB: Marcos, if you continue to have problems let me know 13:20:46 MC: looking back, we should have built the test suite during Last Call and not wait until CR 13:21:06 ... before we progress any other spec to CR, we should do real work on the test suite 13:21:19 ... especially for Widgets Interface and WARP specs 13:21:27 ... as well as Widgets URI spec 13:21:52 AB: that seems like a good idea to me 13:22:23 Topic: Introduction by Steven Pemberton 13:22:32 AB: Steven, thanks for joining us! 13:23:46 SP: I am based in Amsterdam 13:24:00 ... been involved with XHMTL, HTML, XForms, CSS, etc. 13:24:12 ... involved with two WGs and some various Task Forces 13:24:32 ... I was asked to help with this group but my time is limited 13:25:02 AB: OK; thanks for joining and we look forward to having your expertise to help us! 13:25:19 Topic: widget Interface spec: storage 13:25:28 AB: last week we discussed Scott Wilson's thread ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0783.html ) related to the Web Storage spec ( http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/ ). Marcos, during our 27 August call you indicated ( http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item06 ) you were going to send a response to Scott. 13:25:55 MC: I haven't completed that yet 13:26:04 -Steven 13:26:09 ... but I will respond before the end of the week 13:26:24 AB: anything else on this topic? 13:26:50 AB: a new WD of the Web Storage WD should be published next week 13:26:58 zakim, dial steven-617 13:26:58 ok, Steven; the call is being made 13:27:00 +Steven 13:27:10 ... we need that spec to continue given our dependency on it 13:27:24 Topic: WARP spec: LC comments from Marcin Hanclik 13:27:56 AB: on August 27, Marcin submitted comments ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0844.html ) for the WARP LCWD. We want detailed discussions to occur on public-webapps but let's take some time now to let Marcin summarize his proposed changes. 13:28:07 +Bryan_Sullivan 13:28:17 Bryan has joined #wam 13:28:31 Present+ Bryan 13:28:45 zakim, dial steven-617 13:28:45 ok, Steven; the call is being made 13:28:47 +Steven.a 13:29:14 MH: the access element and its syntax and semantics 13:29:41 -Steven.a 13:29:46 ... it would be changed to be based on the feature element 13:29:59 ... I propose some syntax changes 13:30:34 ... the subdomain attr is problematic e.g. doesn't support more protocols 13:30:37 zakim, dial steven-617 13:30:37 ok, Steven; the call is being made 13:30:38 +Steven.a 13:30:48 ... the uri attr is also a prob 13:31:04 Benoit has joined #wam 13:31:07 ... e.g. the value "*" is too loose 13:31:13 Present+ Benoit 13:31:29 ... I propose we move from the access element to the feature element 13:32:05 ... Need to support other protocols beyond http e.g. tel:, sms:, etc. 13:32:25 + +45.29.aabb 13:33:09 -Steven 13:33:37 MC: we also thought about enabling network via the feature element 13:33:51 ... but we think using access element simplifies the model a bit 13:34:08 ... Doing it all via feature is a bit convoluted 13:34:33 ... The sec policy will permit or not stuff like tel: 13:35:28 ... The feature stuff should eventually go away as things get included by the UA; that they will be there by default 13:35:48 ... I see some value in Marcin's proposal but I prefer the current model 13:35:57 ... Want to hear more feedback from the WG 13:36:38 MH: we need to define security and policy 13:36:50 ... and that is the scope of the DAP WG 13:37:16 ... don't think WARP should define security model or policy 13:39:23 ... there are several use cases we need to consider against warp e.g. mailto: 13:40:00 MC: I think we should take this up on the mail list 13:40:05 MH: I'm OK with that 13:40:15 ... please answer my e-mail 13:40:26 MC: I will but after I take care of some P+C issues 13:40:56 ... I do think we think about whether WARP is too over-reaching 13:41:10 ... and I also agree we may need to discuss this with DAP 13:41:32 MH: should we Cc: DAP WG? 13:41:52 MC: I don't think so; I suspect WARP will end up going back to WD 13:42:04 AB: further discussions should continue on public-webapps 13:42:36 ... the deadline for comments for WARP LC is 20 September 13:43:07 AB: are there related discussion in BONDI about WARP? 13:43:15 MH: yes 13:43:32 ... BONDI has an access requirement 13:43:41 ... we need something like WARP 13:43:51 ... but we access to be done via features 13:44:26 ... we defined an element that similar to WARP's but it is different 13:44:50 ... BONDI wants to be based on W3C spec 13:45:06 AB: any last comments on this topic? 13:45:11 RRSAgent, make minutes 13:45:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html ArtB 13:46:13 Topic: Widget URIs spec: proposal to publish LCWD 13:46:28 AB: on September 2 Robin completed his action to get the Widget URIs spec ready for LCWD ( http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-uri/ ). By publishing a LCWD we are stating the spec is functionally complete and meets all of the relevant requirements. Are there any objections to publishing this document as LCWD? 13:47:03 MC: I have reservations 13:47:14 ... I sent a bunch of feedback about one hour ago 13:47:26 AB: I haven't looked at it 13:47:48 MC: the spec meets the relevant reqs 13:47:58 ... but it doesn't define everything that it should 13:48:07 ... it also doesn't have a Conformance section 13:48:17 ... and doesn't define a "product" 13:48:32 ... I think Robin should fix the problems I found before we publish it 13:49:00 ... If he fixes the issues I raised, I think we would have a better LCWD document 13:49:10 AB: what do others think? 13:49:41 ... Do we wait until Robin addresses MC's concerns or publish as is? 13:49:54 MC: I think we should fix the problems first 13:50:36 MH: I need to review MC's comments 13:51:03 ... if Robin can fix MC's comments RS that would be good 13:51:15 Bryan: I support that as well 13:51:37 AB: you mean you want MC's comments addressed first? 13:51:39 Bryan: yes 13:53:04 AB: I'm hearing the majority of people want to postpone publication until Robin has addressed MC's comments 13:53:10 ... so that's what we will do 13:53:27 AB: anything else on this topic for today? 13:53:30 [ No ] 13:53:43 Topic: View Modes spec: status 13:53:49 AB: Marcin, what is the status of the View Modes spec ( http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-vm/ ). Has the spec been split? 13:54:19 MH: the spec isn't split yet but I intend to do the split by the end of the week 13:54:27 AB: excellent 13:54:36 AB: any other status to report? 13:54:41 MH: not today 13:54:52 AB: anyone else have something for this topic? 13:54:56 [ No ] 13:55:05 Topic: AOB 13:55:21 MH: regarding TPAC 13:55:48 ... can attend as a group participant 13:56:19 ... or as an Observer 13:57:40 ... the UI of the registration form doesn't permit a person to register as a participant for two WGs on the same day 13:57:45 BS: I have the same issue 13:57:58 AB: I'll raise this issue with our Team Contacts 13:58:36 s/BS: I have/Bryan: I have/ 13:58:46 Benoit: WebApps will have two rooms, right? 13:58:48 AB: yes 13:59:00 AB: any other AOB items? 13:59:09 AB: Next meeting: next week, same logistics. This meeting is adjourned. 13:59:21 -Bryan_Sullivan 13:59:23 -Steven.a 13:59:23 - +45.29.aabb 13:59:25 -Marcin 13:59:25 -Marcos/Arve 13:59:27 RRSAgent, make minutes 13:59:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html ArtB 14:00:53 -Art_Barstow 14:00:55 IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended 14:00:56 Attendees were Art_Barstow, +49.208.4.aaaa, Marcin, Marcos/Arve, Steven, Bryan_Sullivan, Steven.a, +45.29.aabb 14:01:17 Marcos_ has joined #wam 14:01:34 annevk has joined #wam 14:06:50 JereK has left #wam 14:44:52 Marcos_ has joined #wam 14:47:49 MikeSmith has joined #wam 14:52:46 shepazu has joined #wam 15:11:29 Steven has left #wam 15:39:47 Zakim has left #wam 15:43:02 rrsagent, bye 15:43:02 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-actions.rdf : 15:43:02 ACTION: caceres respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD [1] 15:43:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc#T13-08-24 15:43:02 ACTION: barstow follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec [2] 15:43:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc#T13-11-16