IRC log of ua on 2009-09-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:20:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:20:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-ua-irc
16:20:57 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:44:36 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
16:47:20 [dtseng1]
dtseng1 has joined #ua
16:48:41 [dtseng1]
I'll only be on IRC due to my proximity to a phone
16:49:07 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
16:58:36 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:59:17 [KFord]
KFord has joined #ua
17:01:38 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? Agenda+ HTML 5 and UAAG review - Agenda+ Finish Discussion of survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/ Agenda+ Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't already done so.
17:02:07 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ HTML 5 and UAAG review -
17:02:22 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Finish Discussion of survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/
17:02:34 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't already done so.
17:03:04 [AllanJ]
title: UAWG Telecon
17:03:14 [AllanJ]
Chair: Jim_allan
17:03:56 [AllanJ]
Regrets: JRichards, HSwan,
17:04:14 [AllanJ]
zakim, drop agendum 1
17:04:14 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? Agenda+ HTML 5 and UAAG review - Agenda+ Finish Discussion of survey at
17:04:17 [Zakim]
... http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/ Agenda+ Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't
17:04:19 [Zakim]
... already done so., dropped
17:05:53 [AllanJ]
zakim, who is here
17:05:53 [Zakim]
AllanJ, you need to end that query with '?'
17:05:57 [AllanJ]
zakim, who is here?
17:05:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
17:05:59 [Zakim]
On IRC I see KFord, Greg, dtseng1, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, trackbot
17:06:24 [dtseng1]
here; only on IRC today
17:06:27 [mth]
mth has joined #ua
17:06:39 [AllanJ]
Hi David,
17:07:29 [AllanJ]
zakim, agenda?
17:07:29 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:07:30 [Zakim]
2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - [from AllanJ]
17:07:31 [Zakim]
3. Finish Discussion of survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/ [from AllanJ]
17:07:33 [Zakim]
4. Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't already done so. [from AllanJ]
17:07:40 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:07:45 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-ua-minutes.html jeanne
17:07:57 [mth]
zakim, who is here?
17:07:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
17:07:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mth, KFord, Greg, dtseng1, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, trackbot
17:08:48 [AllanJ]
regrets +SHarper
17:10:30 [AllanJ]
David did you send in your comments on HTML5
17:11:14 [AllanJ]
Mark will send his in after the meeting
17:11:39 [mth]
mth will send his HTML5 video comment today.
17:12:11 [dtseng1]
will have comments in today as well
17:12:23 [mth]
JA: can we still send in comments re HTML5?
17:13:16 [mth]
JS: no deadline, no date for last call. can still send in commments. after last call, we can still send in comments.
17:15:04 [mth]
JA: In reading the HTML5 doc, there are still many things which are unresolved that are blocking going to last call. Jeanne is also putting together a spreasheet with the comments.
17:15:33 [mth]
JS: do we want any kind of intro to send in with the comments?
17:16:02 [mth]
KF: two sentence paragraph: this is the collective thinking of the UAAG group on HTML5.
17:16:18 [mth]
JA: Preliminary review. send to PF and CG.
17:17:22 [mth]
zakim, close item 2
17:17:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2, HTML 5 and UAAG review -, closed
17:17:24 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:17:25 [Zakim]
3. Finish Discussion of survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/ [from AllanJ]
17:17:31 [mth]
zakim, next item
17:17:31 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Finish Discussion of survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:18:55 [mth]
JA: was simon going to work on his definition?
17:19:18 [mth]
GL: comment, why the 3 definitions?
17:20:13 [mth]
JA: wrestling with the definition. UA's cover lots of things. What exactly is a UA and this is Simon's effort to come up with a definition.
17:20:39 [mth]
GL: defining new terms isn't necessary, especially if we don't use those terms anywhere except in the definition.
17:21:26 [mth]
JA: Primary, base, embedded UA have all been discussed. What are the distinctions?
17:25:04 [mth]
GL: lots of brain power time and energy going into definitions that we may never get right. Leave it open. Its really up to the purchasing authority to decide what compliance requirement are for UA. A basic definition is needed, IF we are not trying to define specific requirements for specific types of UA's. It can be tough for readers to parse and understand what this is? e.g., Is a Java runtime a UA?
17:26:33 [mth]
JA: We detail these things (Simon's stuff) in our GL's and leave the UA definition broad. No need to burden the definition.
17:26:39 [mth]
MH: agree.
17:27:54 [mth]
JS: agree.
17:28:22 [AllanJ]
David: thoughts?
17:29:08 [Greg]
Also when we're detailed we run the risk of getting it wrong, such as inadvertently making JRE, C#, etc. count as User Agents.
17:29:25 [AllanJ]
MH: thought Simon's efforts are related to techniques as well as guidelines
17:31:53 [mth]
JA: JRE is a platform within a platform. It is not its own thing. Can't use the "Its Java" excuse. Working on this problem for years.
17:33:38 [mth]
GL: package or software that meets the guidelines. UA could be compliant, but a plug-in may provided with the UA may not be accessible. If included with the UA, then the non-compliant plug-in makes the whole non-compliant.
17:34:32 [mth]
JA: sounds like we are done with the survey. Anyone disagree?
17:34:45 [mth]
GL: what is the resolution on the definition?
17:35:53 [mth]
JA: consensus of those on the call to keep the current definition. Use Simon's suggestions when writing specific guidelines and techniques to which those suggestions may apply.
17:36:51 [mth]
JS: put Simon's suggestions in techniques. Note it as an issue.
17:37:37 [mth]
JS: what section?
17:37:48 [mth]
JA: GL1, perhaps other sections.
17:37:50 [jeanne]
issue: Move tests for User Agent into Guideline 1 Techniques
17:37:50 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-42 - Move tests for User Agent into Guideline 1 Techniques ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/42/edit .
17:38:55 [mth]
zakim, close item 3
17:38:55 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Finish Discussion of survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090826/, closed
17:38:57 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:38:58 [Zakim]
4. Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't already done so. [from AllanJ]
17:39:04 [mth]
zakim, next item
17:39:04 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't already done so." taken up [from AllanJ]
17:40:10 [mth]
JA: please complete the attendance survey if you haven't already?
17:40:25 [mth]
zakim, close 4
17:40:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close 4', mth
17:40:36 [mth]
zakim, close item 4
17:40:36 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Face 2 Face - TPAC, please complete attendance survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090821/ if you haven't already done so., closed
17:40:39 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
17:41:19 [mth]
JA: a new item for the agenda. About one comment per week for the spec.
17:47:00 [AllanJ]
Need to generate topics for F2F
17:48:02 [Greg]
Rather than everyone reading the document over again, I suggest that everyone go through the comments they have submitted, checking to see if they are resolved to their satisfaction. Otherwise we risk thinking about, writing, and submitting the same comments all over again.
17:50:15 [mth]
KF: everyone should review spec from top to bottom and note issues.
17:50:29 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/ED-UAAG20-20090722/
17:50:30 [mth]
JA: maybe so both, review spec and comments.
17:51:04 [mth]
c /so/do/
17:52:23 [mth]
KF: moving toward finishing. is it finished? have we covered what are likely to be the broad spectrum of UA's likely to exist in the coming time period (interval undefined).
17:53:05 [mth]
KF+JS+MH all doing more browsing on the phone.
17:54:50 [mth]
JA: for next week, review top to bottom and generate any issues, and/or review comments and see if they have been addressed.
17:55:56 [mth]
JS: perhaps at the f2f we can actually start writing the techniques
17:56:31 [dtseng1]
One thing to consider with respect to new forms of UA's is the wider use of touch-based devices used as an input method
17:56:36 [mth]
rrsagent, create minutes
17:56:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-ua-minutes.html mth
17:56:57 [mth]
zakim, please part
17:56:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
17:58:05 [AllanJ]
meeting: UAWG telecon
17:58:12 [mth]
rrsagent, create minutes
17:58:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-ua-minutes.html mth
17:59:28 [AllanJ]
Present +Jallan, MHakkinen. JSpellman, KFord, GLowney, DTseng
17:59:33 [mth]
rrsagent, create minutes
17:59:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-ua-minutes.html mth
18:03:23 [mth]
rssagent, part
18:04:07 [mth]
rrsagent, part
18:04:07 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items