IRC log of core on 2009-09-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:49:30 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #core

18:49:30 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-irc

18:49:36 [aphillip]

zakim, this will be I18N

18:49:36 [Zakim]

ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

18:49:44 [aphillip]

RRSAgent, set logs world-visible

18:49:57 [aphillip]

Meeting: Internationalization Core WG Teleconference

18:50:02 [aphillip]

Chair: Addison Phillips

18:50:06 [aphillip]

Scribe: Addison Phillips

18:50:11 [aphillip]

ScribeNick: aphillip

18:50:22 [aphillip]

RRSAgent, make minutes

18:50:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-minutes.html aphillip

18:57:35 [David]

David has joined #core

18:58:17 [Zakim]

I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has now started

18:58:24 [Zakim]

+??P0

18:59:32 [Zakim]

+??P1

18:59:50 [David]

zakim, +??P1 is David

18:59:50 [Zakim]

sorry, David, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1'

19:00:13 [David]

zakim, ??P1 is David

19:00:13 [Zakim]

+David; got it

19:01:13 [r12a]

r12a has joined #core

19:01:13 [Zakim]

+addison

19:01:20 [r12a]

zakim, dial richard please

19:01:20 [Zakim]

ok, r12a; the call is being made

19:01:25 [Zakim]

+Richard

19:02:08 [r12a]

zakim, who's here ?

19:02:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see andrewc, David, addison, Richard

19:02:09 [Zakim]

On IRC I see r12a, David, RRSAgent, andrewc, aphillip, Zakim

19:02:46 [Zakim]

-David

19:03:12 [Zakim]

+??P1

19:04:10 [aphillip]

Regrets: DanC

19:04:14 [David]

zakim, mute david

19:04:14 [Zakim]

David should now be muted

19:04:37 [Zakim]

-andrewc

19:06:47 [aphillip]

Topic: Agenda

19:07:20 [David]

I didn't see an agenda

19:07:48 [David]

should we add rescheduling for DST soon?

19:07:48 [aphillip]

item: the language tags thing

19:07:58 [aphillip]

item: DST scheduling

19:08:11 [aphillip]

HTML encoding detection

19:08:36 [aphillip]

is anyone reading html5?

19:08:51 [aphillip]

Topic: Action Items

19:08:58 [aphillip]

Richard: respond on our behalf to CSS on ruby issue

19:09:02 [aphillip]

not yet

19:09:24 [aphillip]

check back in a few weeks

19:09:32 [aphillip]

addison: set up document edit transition with dan for ws-i18n

19:09:46 [aphillip]

dan has the document, but his editor doesn't work... so getting xmlspy

19:10:30 [aphillip]

richard: publish i18n-guide-frameword as (retired, obsolete) WD

19:10:50 [aphillip]

told the change is made but not appearing yet... will keep tracking

19:10:56 [aphillip]

will ping Ian again

19:11:14 [aphillip]

addison: to write a response proposing new text for html5 immediately following call for forwarding today

19:11:36 [aphillip]

agendum: bidi techniques pub

19:11:38 [aphillip]

all: review HTML5 (rolling action item to be reviewed weekly)

19:11:50 [aphillip]

Topic: Info Share

19:11:56 [Zakim]

+??P0

19:12:17 [Zakim]

-??P0

19:12:55 [aphillip]

idna folks just changed their charter

19:13:25 [aphillip]

(ping mark for some update??)

19:13:49 [David]

no

19:13:52 [David]

zakim, unmute david

19:13:52 [Zakim]

David should no longer be muted

19:14:06 [aphillip]

Topic: Bidi Techniques publication

19:14:15 [aphillip]

richard: basically... I'd like to publish it

19:14:20 [aphillip]

... any objections?

19:14:25 [aphillip]

david: no

19:14:28 [aphillip]

addison: no

19:14:43 [aphillip]

ACTION: Richard: publish bidi techniquest document

19:15:26 [aphillip]

Topic: DST Scheduling

19:16:34 [Zakim]

+??P0

19:16:50 [aphillip]

ACTION: David: coordinate getting new dst scheduling

19:16:51 [David]

http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2009.html

19:17:16 [aphillip]

Topic: Language Tags document

19:17:41 [r12a]

http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/temp.php

19:18:10 [aphillip]

richard: looking for comments

19:18:13 [r12a]

http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/temp.php#language

19:18:18 [aphillip]

... main change is in extended language subtag section

19:19:08 [aphillip]

Prefix: ar Macrolanguage: ar

19:19:14 [aphillip]

appears on one line instead of two

19:21:10 [aphillip]

addison: written chinese is more complex than that

19:23:13 [andrewc]

it depends on how exact you neeed to be with your langauge tagging

19:26:04 [andrewc]

generally "zh-Hants" "zh-Hant" fine, but for http://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/ vs http://zh.wikipedia.org/ nee dmore precision

19:26:29 [aphillip]

http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/rfc5646.html#choiceUsingExtlang

19:28:22 [aphillip]

richard: mark mentioned

19:28:36 [aphillip]

... i had written:

19:28:40 [r12a]

As RFC 4646 co-author, Addison Phillips, writes, "For virtually any content that does not use a script tag today, it remains the best practice not to use one in the future".

19:28:53 [r12a]

mark writes:

19:28:53 [r12a]

I disagree with that. The better advice is

19:28:53 [r12a]

You should not use a script code if the predominant usage of the language is with a single script, and you don't need a contrast to remove ambiguity.

19:28:53 [r12a]

For example, either Latin or Cyrllic are appropriate for use with uz, because of 'a'. As another example, where audio and written content need to be distinguished, one can use the "en-Latn" for written content and "en-Zxxx" for audio content.

19:28:53 [aphillip]

... and mark wrote:

19:32:05 [YvesS]

YvesS has joined #core

19:32:25 [YvesS]

sorry, could not make it before.

19:33:34 [Zakim]

+YvesS

19:34:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-minutes.html aphillip

19:39:24 [r12a]

http://rishida.net/utils/subtags/index.php?find=malay&submit=Find&lookup=&list=0&check=

19:41:09 [andrewc]

its a case by case basis.

19:46:04 [andrewc]

maybe the rule of thumb is use the minimal langauge tag you need to provide the level of identification oyu need?

19:46:28 [andrewc]

which seems ot cover all cases

19:47:47 [aphillip]

Ultimately, it would probably be useful for the I18N WG to provide a reference about legacy encodings, superset encodings, and the famous "willful violation of CharMod" in HTML5, published as a WG Note.

19:48:46 [andrewc]

they use legacy in multiple ways

19:52:15 [andrewc]

slowly working through html5

19:52:47 [andrewc]

not yet, but still need to go through a lot more of html5 first

19:54:33 [andrewc]

maybe a start would be to write a HTML5 internationalisation cheatsheet based on our existing techniques documents, faqs, etc

19:55:04 [aphillip]

use public list to share comments as you find them

19:55:26 [andrewc]

ok

19:55:58 [andrewc]

although html5 like css3 is likely to be an ingremental implementation

19:56:07 [andrewc]

incremental

19:56:24 [andrewc]

at soem point the horse has bolted, but at what point?

19:57:34 [andrewc]

esp since firefox and opera are starting to implement parts of it already ;)

20:00:02 [Zakim]

-David

20:00:03 [Zakim]

-YvesS

20:00:04 [Zakim]

-addison

20:00:08 [Zakim]

-Richard

20:00:13 [Zakim]

-??P0

20:00:15 [Zakim]

I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has ended

20:00:16 [Zakim]

Attendees were David, addison, Richard, andrewc, YvesS

20:01:08 [andrewc]

andrewc has left #core

20:13:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-minutes.html aphillip

20:13:47 [aphillip]

zakim, bye

20:13:47 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #core

20:13:51 [aphillip]

rrsagent, bye

20:13:51 [RRSAgent]

I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-actions.rdf :

20:13:51 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Richard: publish bidi techniquest document [1]

20:13:51 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-irc#T19-14-43

20:13:51 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: David: coordinate getting new dst scheduling [2]

20:13:51 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-irc#T19-16-50