12:46:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ssn
12:46:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-ssn-irc
12:46:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ssn
12:46:35 <Holger> zakim, this will be INC_SSN 
12:46:35 <Zakim> ok, Holger; I see INC_SSN()9:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
12:46:52 <Holger> Regrets: Manfred, Cory, Simon
12:47:01 <Holger> agenda+ Roll call
12:47:10 <Holger> agenda+ Actions from last meeting
12:47:18 <Holger> agenda+ Ontology - core concepts
12:47:28 <Holger> agenda+ Agenda face-to-face
12:47:34 <Holger> agenda+ AOB
12:47:41 <Holger> Meeting: SSN XG 01-September-2009
12:47:55 <Holger> Chair: Holger
12:53:16 <Danh_DERI> Danh_DERI has joined #ssn
12:54:03 <Zakim> INC_SSN()9:00AM has now started
12:54:09 <Zakim> +Holger
12:57:12 <Zakim> +??P11
12:57:15 <Zakim> -Holger
12:57:16 <Zakim> +Holger
12:57:31 <rgarcia> rgarcia has joined #ssn
12:58:31 <Zakim> + +49.133.6.aaaa
12:58:56 <rgarcia> zakim, +49.133.6.aaaa is me
12:58:56 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
13:00:12 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ssn
13:00:37 <Zakim> +mscottm
13:00:59 <michael> michael has joined #ssn
13:01:09 <Zakim> +??P15
13:01:28 <Payam> zakim, +??P15 is me
13:01:28 <Zakim> sorry, Payam, I do not recognize a party named '+??P15'
13:01:36 <Payam> zakim, ??P15 is me
13:01:36 <Zakim> +Payam; got it
13:01:46 <Zakim> -Payam
13:02:08 <krp> krp has joined #ssn
13:02:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:02:25 <Zakim> +??P16
13:02:42 <michael> zakim, ??P16 is me
13:02:42 <Zakim> +michael; got it
13:03:22 <Arthur> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:03:22 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
13:03:30 <Zakim> +krp
13:03:43 <Zakim> +??P19
13:03:45 <Zakim> + +1.937.257.aabb
13:04:24 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aacc
13:04:29 <Zakim> +??P20
13:04:34 <victor> victor has joined #ssn
13:04:46 <kerry> zakim, ??P20 is me
13:04:46 <Zakim> +kerry; got it
13:05:24 <Luis_Bermudez> Luis_Bermudez has joined #ssn
13:05:25 <Zakim> -??P19
13:06:11 <Holger> agenda?
13:06:36 <Zakim> +??P19
13:06:44 <Zakim> +[CTIC]
13:07:00 <victor> zakim, CTIC is temporarily me
13:07:00 <Zakim> +victor; got it
13:08:01 <Luis_Bermudez> there is a terrible background noice
13:08:34 <AmitS> AmitS has joined #ssn
13:09:36 <Zakim> +Prateek
13:09:52 <AmitS> +Prateek -> Amit Sheth
13:10:04 <laurent_csiro> laurent_csiro has joined #ssn
13:10:24 <laurent_csiro> zakim, is <laurent_oz>
13:10:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'is <laurent_oz>', laurent_csiro
13:10:36 <Holger> ScribeNick: rgarcia
13:11:16 <Holger> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Key_Sensor_Concepts
13:11:32 <rgarcia> Topic: Key Sensor Concepts
13:11:42 <michael> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Key_Sensor_Concepts
13:12:01 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
13:12:14 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Holger (5%), rgarcia (24%), mscottm (100%)
13:12:22 <rgarcia> zakim, mute me
13:12:22 <Zakim> rgarcia should now be muted
13:12:31 <Holger> zakim, mute mscottm
13:12:31 <Zakim> mscottm should now be muted
13:14:06 <rgarcia> Michael: The page describes the main concepts of the ontology
13:14:14 <AmitS> This is noce-- where would you model error conditions?
13:14:18 <AmitS> nice
13:14:20 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #ssn
13:15:26 <rgarcia> ... and how they link to each other
13:15:56 <Zakim> + +1.650.450.aadd
13:16:12 <rgarcia> Luis: Sensors may be losing battery
13:16:51 <rgarcia> Michael: We can model this in the Capabilities "box"
13:17:35 <Luis_Bermudez> +q
13:17:37 <kerry> +q
13:17:45 <Payam> what about the measurement time?
13:19:12 <michael> +q
13:19:16 <rgarcia> Luis: In non-normal functioning conditions the measurement of the sensor can be innacurate
13:19:37 <Payam> +q
13:20:48 <Holger> ack Luis_Bermudez
13:21:42 <AmitS> one tentative view-- OWL-DL may not be sufficient, we may have to recognize the need for rules in modeling sensors- Amit
13:22:42 <laurent_csiro> UncertML? 
13:23:21 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
13:23:25 <Payam> -q
13:23:37 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kerry (54%)
13:24:21 <Holger> ack kerry
13:24:31 <Holger> ack michael
13:26:28 <Zakim> - +1.650.450.aadd
13:27:59 <Payam> +q
13:28:27 <rgarcia> Michael: Observations still need to be incorporated in the ontology
13:28:48 <AmitS> +q
13:29:02 <Holger> ack Payam
13:29:03 <kerry> butthe time of operation of a sensor might be part of a capabilitydescription
13:29:04 <Payam> +q
13:29:14 <Holger> ack AmitS
13:30:45 <Zakim> - +1.937.257.aabb
13:31:15 <rgarcia> Amit: There is the need to model the time when the sensor is operational. Where do we model it? 
13:31:19 <kerry> perhaps time is part of the "condition" of the capability
13:31:23 <rgarcia> ... And how?
13:31:57 <Zakim> + +1.937.257.aaee
13:32:24 <Danh_DERI> +q
13:33:37 <Holger> ack Payam
13:34:05 <krp> Though that condition is on the result model isn't it? Would the operational time be an "operational restriction" in Physical Properties?
13:34:07 <rgarcia> Michael: existing ontologies may already include the concepts needed to model time, but we may want to model some things differently
13:34:57 <Zakim> +wonsuk
13:34:59 <Holger> zakim, unmute mscottm
13:34:59 <Zakim> mscottm should no longer be muted
13:35:04 <rgarcia> Payam: some things are "global" and must be synchronised across the ontology (e.g., timezones), where will be this modelled?
13:36:22 <rgarcia> Danh: ow can we model a sensor that is moving and whose movement is detected by other sensors?
13:36:52 <AmitS> As with time, location will need to be model separately
13:36:52 <Payam> +q
13:37:06 <Zakim> - +1.937.257.aaee
13:37:19 <Holger> ack Danh_DERI
13:37:22 <Holger> ack Payam
13:37:26 <Luis_Bermudez> +q
13:37:31 <Arthur> +q
13:37:57 <Zakim> + +1.937.257.aaff
13:38:27 <laurent_csiro> Basic time zone stuff described in http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/ but limited applicability because there is no logic between the choice of daylight saving times.
13:39:03 <Holger> ack Luis_Bermudez
13:39:43 <rgarcia> Luis: we have already in SensorML the location of the observation and the device separately
13:40:08 <kerry> +q
13:40:11 <michael> yes and how to express them in OWL
13:40:11 <rgarcia> ... it is better not to re-discuss but to decide the parts of the ontology to be further developed
13:40:27 <Zakim> -wonsuk
13:41:26 <AmitS> +q
13:42:12 <rgarcia> Arthur: regarding location, a concept "Motion" could represent this
13:42:34 <Holger> ack Arthur
13:42:39 <Holger> ack kerry
13:43:26 <Luis_Bermudez> +q
13:43:44 <Arthur> concept would be actuator, and one possible actuator cold be motion.
13:44:03 <Holger> ack AmitS
13:44:47 <michael> +q
13:45:20 <rgarcia> Amit: Types of sensors and the grounding of particular sensor are different
13:46:42 <Holger> ack michael
13:47:42 <rgarcia> Michael: With the current ontology both things can be represented (with the TBox and ABox)
13:48:37 <Holger> ack Luis_Bermudez
13:49:23 <rgarcia> Luis: Do not reinvent the wheel for mobile sensors. We can reuse existing approaches (OGF) and model them in RDF
13:49:41 <michael> +q
13:50:06 <rgarcia> (OGC)
13:50:07 <Holger> ack michael
13:51:39 <rgarcia> Topic: F2F agenda
13:51:41 <Holger> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/F2f09
13:52:23 <kerry> +q
13:52:23 <michael> more time for discussions sounds good
13:52:44 <Holger> ack kerry
13:53:33 <michael> demo could be over lunch?
13:54:10 <rgarcia> Kerry: Avoid the keynote speaker
13:54:15 <laurent_csiro> +q
13:56:39 <rgarcia> Some interesting demos could be one regarding markup and another regarding using multiple ontologies 
13:57:28 <kerry> +1
13:58:07 <rgarcia> Proposal to split demos in 2 sessions, one for each main topic (Ontology + Annotation)
13:58:10 <Holger> ack laurent_csiro
13:58:23 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
13:58:34 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mscottm (9%), Arthur (6%), kerry (9%)
13:58:45 <rgarcia> Laurent: Insert in the agenda the discussion of where the group is and where we will go
13:59:12 <kerry> I could not hear laurent well -- if it was discuss where we go next +1
14:00:52 <laurent_csiro> It was know where we are the beginning and then get time for people working on the same deliverable to coordinate their efforts towards the deliverables 
14:01:51 <kerry> +q
14:02:53 <rgarcia> Topic: AOB
14:04:03 <laurent_csiro> +q
14:04:37 <rgarcia> Holger: Kerry will chair next meeting
14:06:13 <rgarcia> ACTION: Everyone to take a look at the use cases (discuss, add, etc.) for next meeting
14:06:21 <laurent_csiro> I've worked as the Australian Office Manager on a conference for web developers Web Directions South 600+ attendees Kerry will do a presentation  on the SSN-XG
14:06:43 <Zakim> -Prateek
14:06:46 <michael> bye
14:06:46 <Zakim> - +1.202.408.aacc
14:06:47 <Zakim> -Arthur
14:06:48 <Zakim> -rgarcia
14:06:49 <Zakim> -victor
14:06:50 <Zakim> - +1.937.257.aaff
14:06:51 <Zakim> -??P11
14:06:52 <Zakim> -michael
14:06:53 <Arthur> Arthur has left #ssn
14:06:54 <Zakim> -mscottm
14:07:29 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:07:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, krp, kerry, ??P19
14:07:41 <Zakim> -krp
14:07:56 <Zakim> -Holger
14:08:01 <laurent_csiro> -
14:08:05 <laurent_csiro> laurent_csiro has left #ssn
14:08:10 <Holger> zakim, bye
14:08:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Holger, rgarcia, mscottm, Payam, michael, Arthur, krp, +1.937.257.aabb, +1.202.408.aacc, kerry, victor, Prateek, +1.650.450.aadd,
14:08:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ssn
14:08:13 <Zakim> ... +1.937.257.aaee, wonsuk, +1.937.257.aaff
14:08:22 <Holger> rrsagent, make log public 
14:08:31 <Holger> rrsagent, draft minutes 
14:08:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-ssn-minutes.html Holger
14:08:54 <Holger> rrsagent, bye 
14:08:54 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-ssn-actions.rdf :
14:08:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Everyone to take a look at the use cases (discuss, add, etc.) for next meeting [1]
14:08:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-ssn-irc#T14-06-13