11:57:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
11:57:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-irc
11:57:36 <joakim> chair: Joakim
11:57:55 <joakim> zakim, who's here?
11:57:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see +46.1.07.19.aaaa, ??P1
11:57:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, joakim, tmichel, tobias, Zakim, wbailer, florian, fsasaki, trackbot
11:58:05 <tobias> Zakim, ??P1 is me
11:58:05 <Zakim> +tobias; got it
11:58:22 <Zakim> + +49.851.509.aabb
11:58:38 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc
11:58:47 <florian> Zakim, aabb is me
11:58:47 <Zakim> +florian; got it
11:59:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
11:59:22 <veroniqueM> veroniqueM has joined #mediaann
11:59:27 <Zakim> + +329331aadd
12:00:18 <joakim> Zakim, +329331aadd is chris
12:00:18 <Zakim> +chris; got it
12:00:55 <joakim> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Aug/0023.html
12:01:24 <Zakim> + +43.316.876.aaee
12:01:32 <Chris> Chris has joined #mediaann
12:02:12 <joakim> zakim, pick a victim
12:02:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose chris
12:02:58 <joakim> zakim, pick a victim
12:02:58 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Felix (muted)
12:03:15 <joakim> scribe: Chris
12:03:19 <Zakim> +thierry
12:03:23 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #mediaann
12:03:39 <wbailer> zakim, aaee is wbailer
12:03:39 <Zakim> +wbailer; got it
12:04:13 <joakim> https://www.dimis.fim.uni-passau.de/~stegmai/w3c_ontology_semudate09.pdf
12:04:20 <florian> https://www.dimis.fim.uni-passau.de/~stegmai/w3c_ontology_semudate09.pdf
12:04:31 <Zakim> + +82.10.58.00.aaff
12:04:32 <Chris> florian comments the ongoing work for the Semudate2009 paper
12:04:58 <wonsuk> zakim, +82.10.58.00.aaff is wonsuk
12:04:58 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
12:05:11 <Chris> different approaches for ontology design are discussed
12:05:51 <Chris> florian: submission is septembre 7th
12:06:22 <Chris> florian: feedback is welcome
12:07:35 <Chris> Joakim: first item
12:07:43 <Chris> Joakim: Raphael has asked us for a formal review of &#147;Use cases and
12:07:54 <Chris> requirements for Media Fragments WG
12:08:01 <veroniqueM> I haven't looked at it yet
12:08:10 <Zakim> +??P9
12:08:20 <Chris> Joakim: who plans to read it?
12:08:23 <florian> me not either
12:08:29 <fsasaki> felix can take an AI to read the document
12:08:32 <wbailer> i plan to read it
12:08:59 <veroniqueM> I will have a look at the document, probably later this week, before next week monday anyway
12:09:22 <fsasaki> probably everybody should just send comments to the list, and we can merge them
12:09:29 <fsasaki> s/AI /action item/
12:09:34 <veroniqueM> good idea!
12:09:51 <Chris> action: Felix to read the document
12:09:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Read the document [on Felix Sasaki - due 2009-09-08].
12:10:12 <daniel> daniel has joined #mediaann
12:10:43 <daniel> long time no talk...glad to see all of you today
12:10:58 <Chris> Joakim: next item
12:11:08 <fsasaki> felix: sorry, very noise today, so I will type ...
12:11:21 <fsasaki> .. the mail is just FYI, so no action needed for the moment IMO
12:11:26 <Chris> Joakim: link with Technical Architecture Group
12:11:32 <fsasaki> .. the TAG will probably come to use sooner or later
12:11:37 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-mediaont-10-20090618/
12:12:01 <joakim>  http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open
12:12:45 <Chris> action-47 for Werner: ongoing
12:13:22 <raphael> raphael has joined #mediaann
12:13:59 <Zakim> +raphael
12:14:01 <Chris> Werner: has now a new affiliation
12:14:33 <Chris> Werner: no changes in work for the WG
12:14:35 <tmichel> zakim, who is here
12:14:35 <Zakim> tmichel, you need to end that query with '?'
12:14:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'drat minutes', raphael.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:14:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:15:05 <tmichel> zakim, who is here ?
12:15:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see +46.1.07.19.aaaa, tobias, florian, +31.20.598.aacc, Felix (muted), chris, wbailer, thierry, wonsuk, ??P9, raphael
12:15:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see raphael, daniel, wonsuk, Chris, veroniqueM, RRSAgent, joakim, tmichel, tobias, Zakim, wbailer, florian, fsasaki, trackbot
12:15:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:16:14 <Chris> raphael: works now as invited expert for the WG due to new employer
12:17:12 <fsasaki> felix: this is ongoing, please keep it open
12:17:27 <fsasaki> .. I have to go through the tables again to check
12:17:37 <raphael> thanks to Veronique and Felix for providing comments on the Media Fragments WD, please, send your comments to our list
12:17:38 <Chris> action-124 for felix: ongoing
12:17:59 <raphael> Topic: review of action items
12:18:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:18:16 <Chris> close action-130
12:18:16 <trackbot> ACTION-130 Create an XSL transformation for the format mapping sheets closed
12:18:24 <raphael> trackbot, start telecon
12:18:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:18:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be MAWG
12:18:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_MAWG()8:00AM already started
12:18:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
12:18:29 <trackbot> Date: 01 September 2009
12:18:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:18:47 <Chris> close action-131
12:18:48 <trackbot> ACTION-131 Add a datatype column to the format mapping sheets closed
12:18:58 <Chris> close action-132
12:18:58 <trackbot> ACTION-132 Add a column for XPath expressions to the format sheets closed
12:19:19 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Aug/0023.html
12:19:30 <Chris> action-134 for David: 
12:19:56 <Chris>  action-134 for David: ongoing
12:20:07 <raphael> s/first item/Topic: Media Fragments WD review
12:20:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:20:26 <Chris> action-135 for David: ongoing
12:20:49 <Chris> action-136 for Joakim: added proposal on the wiki
12:21:16 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Sub_Types
12:22:13 <Chris> werner: wonders if all relation types are needed
12:22:58 <Chris> Joakim: will review the relation types for creator and contributor
12:23:13 <Chris> action-136 for Joakim: ongoing
12:23:55 <Chris> Werner: added grouping in the main summary table 
12:24:01 <Chris> Werner: asks for feedback
12:24:15 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/summary.html
12:24:45 <florian> +1 (grouping)
12:25:07 <Chris> Werner: should we apply the grouping for all other tables?
12:25:25 <raphael> +1 for grouping
12:25:33 <Chris> +1
12:25:34 <veroniqueM> I think that it makes sense and would improve the readability of the table
12:25:39 <veroniqueM> +1
12:25:46 <wonsuk> +1
12:25:58 <fsasaki> +1
12:26:45 <Chris> Joakim: is the summary table mature enough to extend it to all tables?
12:26:58 <Chris> close action-137
12:26:58 <trackbot> ACTION-137 Update attributes table closed
12:28:13 <Chris> close action-145
12:28:13 <trackbot> ACTION-145 Elaborate on the API return types (structured and unstructured) by providing examples closed
12:28:25 <Chris> close action-146
12:28:25 <trackbot> ACTION-146 Define sub-types for the different properties closed
12:28:49 <raphael> ACTION-148?
12:28:50 <trackbot> ACTION-148 -- WonSuk Lee to start work and collaboration on the API draft document -- due 2009-07-03 -- OPEN
12:28:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/148
12:29:05 <raphael> ACTION-147?
12:29:05 <trackbot> ACTION-147 -- Thierry Michel to check status of Web IDL for web api's -- due 2009-07-03 -- OPEN
12:29:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/147
12:29:33 <Chris> Thierry: no clear view yet when new working draft will be published
12:29:48 <Chris> Thierry: will contact them again and report
12:29:57 <Chris> action-147 for Thierry: ongoing
12:30:04 <raphael> s/new working draft/new working draft from the WebApp WG
12:30:50 <Chris> Wonsuk: work started on the API draft document
12:31:15 <Chris> Wonsuk: proposed description of each section in the document
12:31:46 <Chris> Wonsuk: first draft should be made by 15th of September
12:32:11 <Chris> action-148 for Wonsuk: ongoing
12:32:34 <raphael> ACTION-149?
12:32:34 <trackbot> ACTION-149 -- David Singer to review of whole of ontology doc with veronique -- due 2009-07-28 -- OPEN
12:32:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/149
12:32:55 <Chris> Veronique: will have a look by next week
12:33:12 <Chris> action-149 for David (and Veronique): ongoing
12:33:58 <joakim>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Aug/0000.html
12:34:08 <fsasaki> Felix: I have to leave soon, but Dave already answered my questions about http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Aug/0000.html already, If you have further feedback about http://www.sasakiatcf.com/felix/ma/02/ and whether it implements correctly http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Strawman_API_design_and_notes , it would be great
12:34:11 <raphael> Could we edit this action into a more meaningful label? such as: Felix to review the Media Fragments WD ?
12:34:24 <joakim>  http://www.sasakiatcf.com/felix/ma/02/
12:36:37 <raphael> Topic: API Design
12:36:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:36:56 <Chris> Florian: IDL seems best for first step
12:37:15 <Chris> Florian: afterwards we could use other language like Java or ECMAScript
12:37:39 <Chris> +1
12:37:54 <fsasaki> +1
12:38:04 <wonsuk> +1
12:38:12 <Chris> Topic: Feed back from PFWG
12:38:15 <florian> IDL or WebIDL
12:38:47 <joakim> We request that you provide a property to indicate the location of alternate versions 
12:39:28 <Chris> Joakim: no response has been given to the Protocols and Formats WG
12:39:40 <raphael> What is the range of the DCMI isFormatOf property ? is it a litteral or a URI of the mime type ?
12:40:28 <Zakim> -Felix
12:41:19 <Chris> Werner: the question posed by the PFWG is not really clear
12:42:11 <Chris> Werner: the meaning of "alternate version" is vague 
12:43:18 <Chris> Werner: will forward an answer to the mailing list for approval
12:44:12 <Chris> action: Werner to formulate an answer on the feed back from PFWG (Protocols and Formats WG)
12:44:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Formulate an answer on the feed back from PFWG (Protocols and Formats WG) [on Werner Bailer - due 2009-09-08].
12:46:51 <joakim> 0.     abstract à need to make first draft
12:46:53 <joakim> 1.     Introduction à need to make first draft
12:46:55 <joakim> 2.     Terminology à firstly add the terms from ontology doc if we need. And then add additional terms if we need.
12:46:57 <joakim> 3.     Data type Description à Do anyone have ideas ?
12:46:58 <raphael> Topic: First WD of API DOC
12:46:58 <Chris> Topic: First WD of API doc
12:46:59 <joakim> 4.     API Description à After referred Strawman API design and notes page[1] in wiki, describe draft APIs based on the core properties of ontology doc.
12:47:01 <joakim> 5.     Examples of how to use the API(in Java for example(chris), web IDL) à I think it could be covered later after mature of APIs.
12:47:07 <tobias> @Raphael: isFormatOf has domain/range http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Resource; this is defined in the domain/range document issued in in 2007: http://dublincore.org/documents/2007/07/02/domain-range/ 
12:47:30 <raphael> Joakim: we look for more editors of this doc
12:47:35 <Chris> Joakim: who is working on the document now
12:47:46 <Chris> Wonsuk: Florian, Victor, and Chris
12:48:13 <Chris> Wonsuk: looking for volunteers for each part
12:48:43 <Chris> Wonsuk: asks feedback on the initial structure of the API doc
12:49:18 <Chris> Joakim: should we decide who works on which section now?
12:49:36 <Chris> Florian: maybe it is a bit too early?
12:49:54 <daniel> I recommend to continue this activity in mailing list
12:50:01 <veroniqueM> I think that the paper that some of us are co-writing could be a nice starting point for the API document
12:50:01 <raphael> Is the goal of this doc to document the API ?
12:50:17 <raphael> what would be its status ? a note ?
12:50:45 <veroniqueM> I thought it would be to describe the principles under which the possible implementations are done
12:51:38 <Chris> Raphael: is the document only technical (like produced by javadoc) or to explain the entire API in all it's aspects?
12:52:32 <Chris> Raphael: if it is a guide for implementations it is not really appropriate as a recommendation
12:53:07 <Chris> Joakim: the document should result in a recommendation
12:53:42 <Chris> Wonsuk: the goal is to define the API to handle the metadata formats
12:55:02 <veroniqueM> I think that it is important to describe the API in the fashion of the draft paper
12:55:38 <Chris> Joakim: are we obliged to make a recommendation
12:55:44 <Chris> Thierry: yes
12:56:17 <veroniqueM> I could not understand Daniel
12:56:56 <veroniqueM> we have to know what to put in the document for it to be a recommendation sometime :)
12:57:00 <Chris> Joakim: we need to have a concrete plan for the document
12:57:05 <florian> +1 @ vero
12:57:07 <veroniqueM> we should know what to write...
12:57:35 <florian> that?s exactly what i wanted to say a few minutes ago
12:57:39 <Chris> Raphael: when the ontology changes the API needs to change accordingly
12:57:54 <Chris> Joakim: yes, there is a direct link
12:58:14 <Chris> Raphael: why not use same structure as ontology document
12:58:30 <Chris> Raphael: grouping properties like in the ontology
13:00:03 <Chris> Wonsuk: we could use the Semudate paper as a starting base for the API document
13:00:40 <Chris> Joakim: let's put the deadline on the outline on end of this week
13:00:46 <veroniqueM> I think we should simply remove what is not relevant in this paper for the API document and see what needs to be written
13:01:34 <Chris> Wonsuk: we should continue this discussion by email
13:03:12 <Chris> Florian: there are to much undefined topics in the document
13:03:54 <Chris> maybe somebody should try defining the content of the sections to move on?
13:05:07 <florian> +1
13:05:26 <raphael> s/to much/too much
13:05:49 <raphael> +1 for someone to better identify the content of each section to move on
13:06:09 <Chris> Joakim: maybe we can start on some sections
13:06:13 <tobias> +1 
13:06:42 <veroniqueM> +1
13:06:44 <Chris> Wonsuk: volunteers for section 4
13:07:49 <Chris> Joakim: Wonsuk can provide a first version of section 4 (API description)
13:07:56 <raphael> I had a look at other W3C spec, for example the OWLspecification, which also has developed an API 
13:08:06 <raphael> note that this API is not part of the spec
13:08:16 <raphael> but the spec contains some general guidelines for the API, see http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#app-DLinRDF
13:08:37 <veroniqueM> +1 to Florian: we should get the content written first, then write the introduction and abstract once we agree on the content
13:08:38 <raphael> in OWL vocab, this is an Annex: Rules of Thumb for OWL DL ontologies
13:09:09 <daniel> This is over...let's keep working on that issue in mailing list
13:09:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
13:09:52 <raphael> Chris: you have normative and non-normative annex
13:10:09 <raphael> ... so if your question is about the status of the annex, then it depends :-)
13:10:50 <Chris> Veronique: we can describe the API on high level for now as it is done in the paper
13:10:52 <tobias> there is an API specification document by the Geolocation people which has been recently released: http://www.w3.org/TR/geolocation-API/
13:10:55 <joakim> +1
13:11:51 <raphael> +1 tobias, and a rec track document
13:12:11 <Chris> Joakim: Wonsuk will make draft for section 4
13:12:27 <joakim> bye
13:12:28 <Zakim> -wbailer
13:12:29 <Zakim> -??P9
13:12:29 <Zakim> -florian
13:12:32 <Zakim> -tobias
13:12:33 <Zakim> -raphael
13:12:37 <Zakim> -wonsuk
13:12:40 <Zakim> -chris
13:12:45 <Zakim> - +46.1.07.19.aaaa
13:12:47 <Zakim> - +31.20.598.aacc
13:12:52 <raphael> [adjourned]
13:13:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
13:13:17 <raphael> zakim, bye
13:13:17 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +46.1.07.19.aaaa, tobias, +49.851.509.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, florian, [IPcaller], Felix, chris, +43.316.876.aaee, thierry, wbailer,
13:13:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediaann
13:13:18 <florian> btw
13:13:20 <Zakim> ... wonsuk, raphael
13:13:27 <florian> vicotr is writting an api paper
13:13:31 <florian> you should talk to him ;)
13:13:45 <raphael> ah! victor from Spain ?
13:13:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
13:15:16 <raphael> Presents: Chris, Daniel, Joakim, Florian, Veronique, Tobias, Raphael, Wonsuk, Werner
13:15:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
13:15:23 <raphael> RRSAgent, bye
13:15:23 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-actions.rdf :
13:15:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to read the document [1]
13:15:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-irc#T12-09-51
13:15:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Werner to formulate an answer on the feed back from PFWG (Protocols and Formats WG) [2]
13:15:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/01-mediaann-irc#T12-44-12