06:29:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
06:29:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-svg-irc
06:29:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
06:30:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
06:30:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start now
06:30:01 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
06:30:01 <trackbot> Date: 26 August 2009
06:31:42 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has now started
06:31:49 <Zakim> +??P0
06:31:52 <heycam> Zakim, ? is me
06:31:52 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
06:35:04 <Zakim> +??P1
06:35:10 <anthony> Zakim, ??P1 is me
06:35:10 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
06:37:53 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
06:39:13 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
06:39:33 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
06:39:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-svg-irc#T06-39-33
06:39:48 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
06:41:07 <Zakim> +ChrisL
06:41:50 <heycam> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/20090825234450.GA11429@wok.mcc.id.au
06:42:28 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
06:42:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see heycam, anthony, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL
06:50:38 <anthony> scribe: anthony
06:50:43 <anthony> chair: Cameron
06:51:49 <ChrisL> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JulSep/0054.html
06:52:07 <ChrisL> Topic: Substitute for onload event in XSLT-generated graphics [www-svg]
06:52:08 <ChrisL>   http://www.w3.org/mid/17608.193.8.177.17.1251183912.squirrel@webmail22.mirsky.de
06:53:15 <anthony> CM: This about events and whether it should be dispached if the document you opened is the result of an XSL transformation
06:53:32 <anthony> CL: You don't automatically have parsing happening when XSLT is running
06:53:36 <anthony> ... it generates source?
06:53:43 <anthony> CM: It generates the DOM
06:53:50 <anthony> ... then installs the document
06:54:01 <anthony> ... that's how I thought it work
06:54:11 <anthony> ... not sure if incremental XSLT exists
06:54:18 <anthony> CL: Basically it's another data source
06:54:22 <anthony> ... either way it should be parsed
06:54:30 <anthony> ... and when it's finished you should get a load event
06:54:40 <anthony> CM: I haven't checked the wording we've got
06:54:48 <anthony> ... to see if it focuses on the parsing tags
06:55:01 <anthony> CL: I don't hear any disagreement if that should happen
06:55:34 <anthony> CM: If you have a whole DOM in memory and you wanted to do the thing where script elements run
06:55:57 <anthony> ... as soon as you see the closing script tag
06:55:58 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/PER-xslt20-20090421/#result-trees
06:56:08 <ChrisL> The output of a transformation is a set of one or more final result trees.
06:56:09 <ChrisL> A final result tree can be created explicitly, by evaluating an xsl:result-document instruction. As explained in 2.4 Executing a Transformation, a final result tree is also created implicitly if no xsl:result-document instruction is evaluated, or if the result of evaluating the initial template is a non-empty sequence.
06:56:09 <ChrisL> The way in which a final result tree is delivered to an application is implementation-defined.
06:56:22 <anthony> CL: [reads out above text]
06:56:46 <anthony> ... so XSL itself says nothing
06:56:53 <anthony> ... about how it gets load etc
06:57:04 <anthony> ... talks in terms about what the grammar is and what the out put is
06:57:28 <anthony> CM: I wonder if the HTML5 spec says anything XML style sheet processing instructions
06:57:33 <anthony> ... maybe they've already covered that
06:57:41 <anthony> ... about script elements and when they get run
06:58:36 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-xhtml-syntax.html#the-xhtml-syntax
06:58:53 <shepazu> "Certain algorithms in this specification spoon-feed the parser characters one string at a time. In such cases, the XML parser must act as it would have if faced with a single string consisting of the concatenation of all those characters."
06:59:19 <anthony> DS: specifically the section 10.4
06:59:21 <shepazu> 10.4 Parsing XHTML fragments
06:59:42 <anthony> DS: I'm not sure if it's at the same level that you guys were talking
07:00:30 <anthony> CM: Maybe the stuff in 10.2, 5th paragraph is talking about
07:00:35 <anthony> ... the script element
07:00:43 <anthony> ... and what you do with it
07:02:04 <anthony> CM: It seems to me that SVGLoad gets dispatched to the root
07:02:59 <anthony> CL: One thing about the original message is it about the spec or an unnamed implementation being used?
07:03:09 <anthony> CM: Think it being used in FireFox
07:03:22 <anthony> CL: We seem to agree that SVGLoad event should be fired
07:03:33 <anthony> ... and there is nothing in HTML5 that is very definitive
07:03:59 <anthony> CM: I think the trick is whether you have half a document in memory (in the DOM) when you encounter a script element
07:05:00 <anthony> ... if the output of your XSLT is the whole DOM or whether you need to reconstruct everything
07:06:18 <anthony> ACTION: Cameron to Look more into the HTML 5 specification to see if there is wording about how the result of XSLT are parsed when script element is encountered
07:06:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2661 - Look more into the HTML 5 specification to see if there is wording about how the result of XSLT are parsed when script element is encountered [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-02].
07:08:34 <Zakim> -heycam
07:08:58 <Zakim> +??P0
07:09:00 <heycam> Zakim, ??P0 is me
07:09:00 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
07:11:17 <anthony> Topic: filterRes Issue
07:11:19 <anthony> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jul/0014.html
07:12:06 <anthony> AG: As far as I can tell the filterRes is used to calculate a scaling factor for the filter primitive
07:12:35 <anthony> ... you divide the filterRes by the bounds in device space
07:12:41 <anthony> ... to get the scaling factor
07:12:58 <anthony> ... I'm pretty sure it's a DPI measurement
07:14:20 <ChrisL> (by the way, on previous topic, http://www.astrotexte.ch/sources/svgonload.html fails to fire load in Firefox 3.6a1 but does throw in Opera 10 b2)
07:15:02 <anthony> CM: It should be it's used to determine intermediate width and height of the primitive
07:15:19 <anthony> ... the current wording makes it sound like they are the actual width and height
07:15:27 <anthony> AG: I think the current wording is wrong
07:15:53 <anthony> ... I'd like to hear what Eric thinks about this issue as well
07:17:47 <anthony> Topic: Substitute for onload event in XSLT-generated graphics [www-svg] again
07:17:53 <anthony> CL: I tried the example
07:18:01 <anthony> ... in Firefox it's not thrown
07:18:04 <anthony> ... in Opera it is
07:18:17 <anthony> ... couldn't test Safari can't get it working on my PC atm
07:19:00 <anthony> ... What we need is a test which uses XSLT to generate HTML with a script that fires onload
07:19:05 <anthony> ... to see what they do with that
07:19:23 <ChrisL> http://www.astrotexte.ch/sources/svgonload.html
07:19:24 <anthony> ... I suspect all the browsers will throw a load event
07:19:57 <anthony> AG: Do you think it's worth making this a test case?
07:20:03 <anthony> CL: Would be an interesting test
07:20:22 <anthony> CM: Do we require XSL instructions to be processed in SVG?
07:20:27 <anthony> CL: Optional addition
07:20:41 <ChrisL> safari on windows seems to crash on any svg file. odd
07:20:44 <anthony> ... sort of like inline TIFF, you can display it
07:20:54 <anthony> ... but don't have to
07:21:23 <anthony> CL: In fire fox in the top case all you see is a blue circles
07:22:42 <anthony> DS: When I load it in Safari it produces astrological symbols
07:22:47 <anthony> ... top and bottom
07:22:55 <anthony> CM: So Safari does dispatch the event then
07:23:14 <anthony> ... next interesting test
07:23:26 <anthony> ... will be a document with a script halfway through it
07:24:25 <anthony> CL: If you look on the bugzilla, the same comment is made there as was made to us
07:25:42 <anthony> ... I think it would be useful to find out what HTML does in practice
07:25:51 <anthony> ... I'd rather have the same load event dispatched
07:26:27 <anthony> CM: Even if you don't go the root of reconstructing the DOM in the right order we can say
07:26:33 <anthony> ... dispatch the event to the root element
07:28:06 <anthony> ACTION: Cameron to Test XSLT generating HTML with a script that fires an onload event
07:28:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2662 - Test XSLT generating HTML with a script that fires an onload event [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-02].
07:30:25 <anthony> Topic: painting-render-02-b.svg review
07:30:51 <anthony> CL: Currently writing a program to test the different versions of sRGB
07:31:10 <anthony> ... there's the original version invented by MS and HP
07:31:26 <anthony> ... then there's another version presented to the W3C that rounds off
07:31:32 <anthony> ... the constants
07:31:42 <anthony> ... produced a discontinuity
07:32:21 <anthony> ... then there's another version that got standardised in IEC
07:34:21 <anthony> ... how did you derive your value?
07:34:37 <anthony> AG: I used the W3C sRGB to calculate it
07:34:50 <anthony> CM: Which is the correct one?
07:35:00 <anthony> CL: The IEC sRGB
07:35:15 <ChrisL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB#Theory_of_the_transformation
07:36:08 <anthony> CM: Does that mean the W3C one should be updated to match?
07:36:24 <anthony> CL: It should, I had considered submitting something about this
07:36:31 <ChrisL> w3c has K0 = 0.03928
07:36:44 <ChrisL> iec has K0 = 0.04045
07:37:27 <anthony> CL: Is this in a spec or is this a note?
07:37:36 <anthony> s/CL/CM/
07:38:31 <anthony> CM: Is this something worth pointing out in the W3C spec?
07:38:52 <anthony> CL: Yes, this may contribute to some of the variations between results
07:42:23 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Investigate the discontinuities in the sRGB gamut and correct any notes on the W3C website and any colour tests that are incorrect
07:42:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2663 - Investigate the discontinuities in the sRGB gamut and correct any notes on the W3C website and any colour tests that are incorrect [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-09-02].
07:44:15 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for the colour section in F1.1 which clarifies which sRGB colour gamut to use
07:44:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2664 - Propose wording for the colour section in F1.1 which clarifies which sRGB colour gamut to use [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-09-02].
07:45:18 <anthony> Topic: MIME type registration
07:45:22 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/son-of-3023/draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml-02.html
07:45:34 <anthony> CL: The latest version can be found in the above link
07:45:52 <anthony> ... I submitted a draft in July
07:46:39 <anthony> ... ISO still have some issues with what 5th edition spec references
07:47:57 <anthony> ... The bit about parsing the ascii characters hasn't changed in editions
07:48:19 <anthony> ... I'm going to put explicit wording which will help address this issue
07:48:53 <anthony> ... I'll probably be making a draft 0.3 that will incorporate the change
07:49:10 <anthony> ... I've also started making some tests
07:51:12 <anthony> ... my draft also deprecates text/XML and says to used application/XML
07:53:33 <anthony> DS: What time frame are we talking about for the maturity such that it would register the SVG MIME type
07:53:49 <anthony> CL: All you have to do is show a two week period with no outstanding comments
07:54:17 <anthony> DS: So we could have SVG MIME type registered by SVG Open
07:54:42 <anthony> CL: Depends on how things go
08:00:35 <Zakim> -ChrisL
08:00:36 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
08:00:38 <Zakim> -heycam
08:05:38 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, anthony, in GA_SVGWG()2:30AM
08:05:41 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has ended
08:05:42 <Zakim> Attendees were heycam, anthony, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL
08:07:44 <anthony> RRSAgent, make minutes
08:07:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-svg-minutes.html anthony
08:11:39 <ed_work> "anthony, the lone participant" heh 
08:11:52 <anthony> yeah I don't get it
08:12:19 <anthony> for some reason zakim thought I didn't sign out
08:12:51 <anthony> And for that
08:12:54 <anthony> Zakim, bye
08:12:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
08:12:56 <anthony> BAM
08:13:01 <anthony> that's what you get Zakim!
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