IRC log of svg on 2009-08-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:29:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-svg-irc
06:29:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
06:30:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
06:30:00 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start now
06:30:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
06:30:01 [trackbot]
Date: 26 August 2009
06:31:42 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has now started
06:31:49 [Zakim]
+??P0
06:31:52 [heycam]
Zakim, ? is me
06:31:52 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
06:35:04 [Zakim]
+??P1
06:35:10 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
06:35:10 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
06:37:53 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
06:39:13 [ChrisL]
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rrsagent, here
06:39:33 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-svg-irc#T06-39-33
06:39:48 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
06:41:07 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
06:41:50 [heycam]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/20090825234450.GA11429@wok.mcc.id.au
06:42:28 [heycam]
Zakim, who is on the call?
06:42:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see heycam, anthony, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL
06:50:38 [anthony]
scribe: anthony
06:50:43 [anthony]
chair: Cameron
06:51:49 [ChrisL]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JulSep/0054.html
06:52:07 [ChrisL]
Topic: Substitute for onload event in XSLT-generated graphics [www-svg]
06:52:08 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/mid/17608.193.8.177.17.1251183912.squirrel@webmail22.mirsky.de
06:53:15 [anthony]
CM: This about events and whether it should be dispached if the document you opened is the result of an XSL transformation
06:53:32 [anthony]
CL: You don't automatically have parsing happening when XSLT is running
06:53:36 [anthony]
... it generates source?
06:53:43 [anthony]
CM: It generates the DOM
06:53:50 [anthony]
... then installs the document
06:54:01 [anthony]
... that's how I thought it work
06:54:11 [anthony]
... not sure if incremental XSLT exists
06:54:18 [anthony]
CL: Basically it's another data source
06:54:22 [anthony]
... either way it should be parsed
06:54:30 [anthony]
... and when it's finished you should get a load event
06:54:40 [anthony]
CM: I haven't checked the wording we've got
06:54:48 [anthony]
... to see if it focuses on the parsing tags
06:55:01 [anthony]
CL: I don't hear any disagreement if that should happen
06:55:34 [anthony]
CM: If you have a whole DOM in memory and you wanted to do the thing where script elements run
06:55:57 [anthony]
... as soon as you see the closing script tag
06:55:58 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/PER-xslt20-20090421/#result-trees
06:56:08 [ChrisL]
The output of a transformation is a set of one or more final result trees.
06:56:09 [ChrisL]
A final result tree can be created explicitly, by evaluating an xsl:result-document instruction. As explained in 2.4 Executing a Transformation, a final result tree is also created implicitly if no xsl:result-document instruction is evaluated, or if the result of evaluating the initial template is a non-empty sequence.
06:56:09 [ChrisL]
The way in which a final result tree is delivered to an application is implementation-defined.
06:56:22 [anthony]
CL: [reads out above text]
06:56:46 [anthony]
... so XSL itself says nothing
06:56:53 [anthony]
... about how it gets load etc
06:57:04 [anthony]
... talks in terms about what the grammar is and what the out put is
06:57:28 [anthony]
CM: I wonder if the HTML5 spec says anything XML style sheet processing instructions
06:57:33 [anthony]
... maybe they've already covered that
06:57:41 [anthony]
... about script elements and when they get run
06:58:36 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-xhtml-syntax.html#the-xhtml-syntax
06:58:53 [shepazu]
"Certain algorithms in this specification spoon-feed the parser characters one string at a time. In such cases, the XML parser must act as it would have if faced with a single string consisting of the concatenation of all those characters."
06:59:19 [anthony]
DS: specifically the section 10.4
06:59:21 [shepazu]
10.4 Parsing XHTML fragments
06:59:42 [anthony]
DS: I'm not sure if it's at the same level that you guys were talking
07:00:30 [anthony]
CM: Maybe the stuff in 10.2, 5th paragraph is talking about
07:00:35 [anthony]
... the script element
07:00:43 [anthony]
... and what you do with it
07:02:04 [anthony]
CM: It seems to me that SVGLoad gets dispatched to the root
07:02:59 [anthony]
CL: One thing about the original message is it about the spec or an unnamed implementation being used?
07:03:09 [anthony]
CM: Think it being used in FireFox
07:03:22 [anthony]
CL: We seem to agree that SVGLoad event should be fired
07:03:33 [anthony]
... and there is nothing in HTML5 that is very definitive
07:03:59 [anthony]
CM: I think the trick is whether you have half a document in memory (in the DOM) when you encounter a script element
07:05:00 [anthony]
... if the output of your XSLT is the whole DOM or whether you need to reconstruct everything
07:06:18 [anthony]
ACTION: Cameron to Look more into the HTML 5 specification to see if there is wording about how the result of XSLT are parsed when script element is encountered
07:06:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2661 - Look more into the HTML 5 specification to see if there is wording about how the result of XSLT are parsed when script element is encountered [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-02].
07:08:34 [Zakim]
-heycam
07:08:58 [Zakim]
+??P0
07:09:00 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
07:09:00 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
07:11:17 [anthony]
Topic: filterRes Issue
07:11:19 [anthony]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jul/0014.html
07:12:06 [anthony]
AG: As far as I can tell the filterRes is used to calculate a scaling factor for the filter primitive
07:12:35 [anthony]
... you divide the filterRes by the bounds in device space
07:12:41 [anthony]
... to get the scaling factor
07:12:58 [anthony]
... I'm pretty sure it's a DPI measurement
07:14:20 [ChrisL]
(by the way, on previous topic, http://www.astrotexte.ch/sources/svgonload.html fails to fire load in Firefox 3.6a1 but does throw in Opera 10 b2)
07:15:02 [anthony]
CM: It should be it's used to determine intermediate width and height of the primitive
07:15:19 [anthony]
... the current wording makes it sound like they are the actual width and height
07:15:27 [anthony]
AG: I think the current wording is wrong
07:15:53 [anthony]
... I'd like to hear what Eric thinks about this issue as well
07:17:47 [anthony]
Topic: Substitute for onload event in XSLT-generated graphics [www-svg] again
07:17:53 [anthony]
CL: I tried the example
07:18:01 [anthony]
... in Firefox it's not thrown
07:18:04 [anthony]
... in Opera it is
07:18:17 [anthony]
... couldn't test Safari can't get it working on my PC atm
07:19:00 [anthony]
... What we need is a test which uses XSLT to generate HTML with a script that fires onload
07:19:05 [anthony]
... to see what they do with that
07:19:23 [ChrisL]
http://www.astrotexte.ch/sources/svgonload.html
07:19:24 [anthony]
... I suspect all the browsers will throw a load event
07:19:57 [anthony]
AG: Do you think it's worth making this a test case?
07:20:03 [anthony]
CL: Would be an interesting test
07:20:22 [anthony]
CM: Do we require XSL instructions to be processed in SVG?
07:20:27 [anthony]
CL: Optional addition
07:20:41 [ChrisL]
safari on windows seems to crash on any svg file. odd
07:20:44 [anthony]
... sort of like inline TIFF, you can display it
07:20:54 [anthony]
... but don't have to
07:21:23 [anthony]
CL: In fire fox in the top case all you see is a blue circles
07:22:42 [anthony]
DS: When I load it in Safari it produces astrological symbols
07:22:47 [anthony]
... top and bottom
07:22:55 [anthony]
CM: So Safari does dispatch the event then
07:23:14 [anthony]
... next interesting test
07:23:26 [anthony]
... will be a document with a script halfway through it
07:24:25 [anthony]
CL: If you look on the bugzilla, the same comment is made there as was made to us
07:25:42 [anthony]
... I think it would be useful to find out what HTML does in practice
07:25:51 [anthony]
... I'd rather have the same load event dispatched
07:26:27 [anthony]
CM: Even if you don't go the root of reconstructing the DOM in the right order we can say
07:26:33 [anthony]
... dispatch the event to the root element
07:28:06 [anthony]
ACTION: Cameron to Test XSLT generating HTML with a script that fires an onload event
07:28:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2662 - Test XSLT generating HTML with a script that fires an onload event [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-09-02].
07:30:25 [anthony]
Topic: painting-render-02-b.svg review
07:30:51 [anthony]
CL: Currently writing a program to test the different versions of sRGB
07:31:10 [anthony]
... there's the original version invented by MS and HP
07:31:26 [anthony]
... then there's another version presented to the W3C that rounds off
07:31:32 [anthony]
... the constants
07:31:42 [anthony]
... produced a discontinuity
07:32:21 [anthony]
... then there's another version that got standardised in IEC
07:34:21 [anthony]
... how did you derive your value?
07:34:37 [anthony]
AG: I used the W3C sRGB to calculate it
07:34:50 [anthony]
CM: Which is the correct one?
07:35:00 [anthony]
CL: The IEC sRGB
07:35:15 [ChrisL]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB#Theory_of_the_transformation
07:36:08 [anthony]
CM: Does that mean the W3C one should be updated to match?
07:36:24 [anthony]
CL: It should, I had considered submitting something about this
07:36:31 [ChrisL]
w3c has K0 = 0.03928
07:36:44 [ChrisL]
iec has K0 = 0.04045
07:37:27 [anthony]
CL: Is this in a spec or is this a note?
07:37:36 [anthony]
s/CL/CM/
07:38:31 [anthony]
CM: Is this something worth pointing out in the W3C spec?
07:38:52 [anthony]
CL: Yes, this may contribute to some of the variations between results
07:42:23 [anthony]
ACTION: Chris to Investigate the discontinuities in the sRGB gamut and correct any notes on the W3C website and any colour tests that are incorrect
07:42:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2663 - Investigate the discontinuities in the sRGB gamut and correct any notes on the W3C website and any colour tests that are incorrect [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-09-02].
07:44:15 [anthony]
ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for the colour section in F1.1 which clarifies which sRGB colour gamut to use
07:44:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2664 - Propose wording for the colour section in F1.1 which clarifies which sRGB colour gamut to use [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-09-02].
07:45:18 [anthony]
Topic: MIME type registration
07:45:22 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/2006/02/son-of-3023/draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml-02.html
07:45:34 [anthony]
CL: The latest version can be found in the above link
07:45:52 [anthony]
... I submitted a draft in July
07:46:39 [anthony]
... ISO still have some issues with what 5th edition spec references
07:47:57 [anthony]
... The bit about parsing the ascii characters hasn't changed in editions
07:48:19 [anthony]
... I'm going to put explicit wording which will help address this issue
07:48:53 [anthony]
... I'll probably be making a draft 0.3 that will incorporate the change
07:49:10 [anthony]
... I've also started making some tests
07:51:12 [anthony]
... my draft also deprecates text/XML and says to used application/XML
07:53:33 [anthony]
DS: What time frame are we talking about for the maturity such that it would register the SVG MIME type
07:53:49 [anthony]
CL: All you have to do is show a two week period with no outstanding comments
07:54:17 [anthony]
DS: So we could have SVG MIME type registered by SVG Open
07:54:42 [anthony]
CL: Depends on how things go
08:00:35 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
08:00:36 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
08:00:38 [Zakim]
-heycam
08:05:38 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, anthony, in GA_SVGWG()2:30AM
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GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has ended
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Attendees were heycam, anthony, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL
08:07:44 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
08:07:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-svg-minutes.html anthony
08:11:39 [ed_work]
"anthony, the lone participant" heh
08:11:52 [anthony]
yeah I don't get it
08:12:19 [anthony]
for some reason zakim thought I didn't sign out
08:12:51 [anthony]
And for that
08:12:54 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
08:12:54 [Zakim]
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08:12:56 [anthony]
BAM
08:13:01 [anthony]
that's what you get Zakim!
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