11:58:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
11:58:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc
11:58:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:58:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
11:58:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
11:58:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
11:58:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
11:58:51 <trackbot> Date: 26 August 2009
12:00:08 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
12:00:15 <Zakim> +raphael
12:00:41 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0070.html
12:00:51 <raphael> Regrets: Conrad, Thierry
12:00:59 <raphael> Chair: Yves, Raphael
12:01:09 <raphael> Regret+ Erik
12:01:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
12:01:49 <raphael> Regret+: Erik
12:01:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
12:02:55 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
12:03:05 <raphael> Present: Yves, Michael, Silvia, Davy, Raphael (partial)
12:03:30 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
12:03:42 <raphael> zakim, aaaa is Davy
12:03:42 <Zakim> +Davy; got it
12:04:04 <Zakim> +silvia
12:04:23 <Zakim> +Yves
12:05:09 <nessy> zakim: mute me
12:05:20 <raphael> Scribe: Davy
12:05:25 <raphael> scribenick: davy
12:05:48 <davy> Topic: 1. ADMIN
12:06:09 <nessy> zakim, mute me
12:06:09 <Zakim> sorry, nessy, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:06:12 <davy> accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:06:12 <davy> http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-mediafrag-minutes.html?
12:06:14 <mhausenblas> +1
12:06:17 <raphael> +1
12:06:19 <davy> +1
12:06:19 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:06:19 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:06:20 <Yves> +1
12:06:25 <silvia> +1
12:06:28 <davy> minutes accepted
12:06:40 <davy> raphael: next WG gathering
12:07:02 <davy> physical F2F will not take place
12:07:12 <davy> ... I suggest a virtual meeting
12:08:37 <davy> action: raphael to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf
12:08:37 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - raphael
12:08:45 <davy> action: raphaël to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf
12:08:45 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - raphaël
12:08:54 <raphael> trackbot, status
12:09:11 <davy> action: Raphaël to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf
12:09:11 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Raphaël
12:09:37 <mhausenblas> Michael: I know of http://tinychat.com/ and http://www.webex.com/
12:09:47 <davy> action: Raphaël to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F telecon
12:09:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F telecon [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-09-02].
12:10:04 <davy> topic: 2. UC & REQUIREMENTS
12:10:23 <davy> action-95?
12:10:23 <trackbot> ACTION-95 -- Michael Hausenblas to review the new UC written by Silvia and check whether it will cover a mobile usage -- due 2009-08-19 -- OPEN
12:10:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/95
12:10:57 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:10:57 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:11:03 <davy> mhausenblas: what do others think about mobile UC?
12:12:15 <davy> ... we need browser builders, mobile world will be interested in fragments
12:13:34 <davy> ... will go through the use cases with my mobile glasses
12:14:13 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:14:13 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:14:37 <davy> raphael: regarding aspect ratio
12:14:54 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:14:54 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:14:55 <davy> ... if we want to keep this feature, we should have a motivation for it
12:15:58 <davy> silvia: I don't think it has anything to do with a fragment
12:16:05 <davy> ... should be removed
12:17:15 <davy> Yves: UC is not really targetted at browsers, example of setop box, where you don't have access to tools for fitting the video into the screen
12:18:08 <davy> ... will be more useful for the '?', not for fragments ('#')
12:18:56 <davy> Action: Yves to write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature
12:18:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-02].
12:19:06 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:19:06 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:19:30 <Zakim> -raphael
12:19:52 <davy> Topic: TEST CASES
12:20:07 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases
12:20:29 <davy> mhausenblas: updated various TCs
12:20:50 <davy> ... and added 3 new TCs
12:21:56 <mhausenblas> TC0008
12:22:16 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:22:16 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:22:30 <davy> Yves: we should talk with people from Google
12:23:15 <davy> silvia: if there was a standard, they would have used it
12:23:33 <davy> ... they will probably adopt our spec
12:24:29 <davy> Yves: should we add the minutes/seconds spec to our spec, even if this will overlap?
12:25:15 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
12:25:58 <Zakim> +Jack_Jansen
12:25:58 <davy> silvia: we could add the youtube timespec and use it as default
12:26:56 <davy> Yves: we should discuss this on the mailinglist
12:28:40 <davy> Yves: regarding Jack's objection (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0013.html)
12:29:35 <davy> Yves: time and space is always present in a video, while track or id will not always be available
12:30:38 <davy> ... reason for having two kinds of behaviour
12:31:04 <davy> jackjansen: don't see the advantage in returning the whole resource in case of a non-existing track or id
12:31:25 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases
12:33:32 <davy> jackjansen: wiki version seems now right, different from the minutes
12:35:17 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:35:22 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#item03
12:36:41 <davy> silvia: TC0005 should return a 200
12:37:41 <davy> ... same for TC0006
12:39:00 <davy> silvia: I agree with Yves, maybe we should change 'empty track/named segment' to 'undefined track/named segment'
12:39:58 <davy> mhausenblas: we should write a small introduction with information regarding our terminology
12:41:15 <davy> ... 3 cases
12:41:25 <davy> ... empty, undefined, or non-existent
12:41:52 <davy> jackjansen: non-existent can only be verified by looking at the media
12:42:07 <silvia> (run-time analysis)
12:42:24 <davy> ... empty and undefined can be verified by looking at the URI
12:43:23 <Yves> TC for #xywh=1920,1200,1,1 for a 640x480 picture ?
12:43:56 <davy> jackjansen: there is no way to give an undefined space segment
12:44:40 <davy> Yves: because space and time are always present in a video
12:46:01 <jackjansen> q+
12:47:08 <Yves> TC for #t=20,30 for a 10s video
12:47:25 <davy> jackjansen: what about partially existing?
12:47:39 <davy> ... we should have a TC for that
12:51:06 <davy> mhausenblas: two additional cases: existing and partially existing
12:52:40 <Yves> use the numbers as a bitmask
12:54:03 <davy> mhausenblas: tool support for TC organization?
12:54:29 <mhausenblas> like http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/
12:54:54 <jackjansen> q-
12:56:59 <davy> Topic: ISSUES
12:57:06 <davy> ISSUE-9?
12:57:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN
12:57:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9
12:57:41 <raphael> raphael has joined #mediafrag
12:58:37 <davy> mhausenblas: if we want to run a real test harness, we have to know the media type of the media used
12:59:47 <davy> silvia: wait until we have some reference implementations, then we will see format-specific issues
13:00:21 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
13:00:23 <Zakim> -Jack_Jansen
13:00:25 <Zakim> -silvia
13:00:26 <Zakim> -Yves
13:00:26 <Zakim> -Davy
13:00:27 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()8:00AM has ended
13:00:28 <Zakim> Attendees were raphael, mhausenblas, +329331aaaa, Davy, silvia, Yves, Jack_Jansen
13:00:31 <davy> adjourned
13:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html Yves
13:00:45 <mhausenblas> thanks all for the great discussion about the TC categorisation!
13:00:53 <mhausenblas> helps me a lot ;)
13:00:54 <mhausenblas> cya
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15:39:19 <raphael> RRSAgent, bye
15:39:19 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
15:39:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: raphael to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf [1]
15:39:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc#T12-08-37
15:39:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: raphaël to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf [2]
15:39:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc#T12-08-45
15:39:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raphaël to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf [3]
15:39:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc#T12-09-11
15:39:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raphaël to setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F telecon [4]
15:39:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc#T12-09-47
15:39:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature [5]
15:39:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc#T12-18-56