19:19:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:19:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/25-ws-ra-irc
19:19:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:19:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:19:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:19:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
19:19:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:19:20 <trackbot> Date: 25 August 2009
19:19:53 <PaulN> PaulN has joined #ws-ra
19:23:44 <Bob> Bob has joined #ws-ra
19:23:59 <Bob> trackbot, start telecon
19:24:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:24:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:24:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
19:24:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:24:04 <trackbot> Date: 25 August 2009
19:27:12 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has now started
19:27:19 <Zakim> +Bob_Freund
19:27:37 <Bob> chair: Bob Freund
19:27:42 <Zakim> + +1.919.849.aaaa
19:28:03 <Zakim> + +1.207.827.aabb
19:28:04 <Bob> zakim, aaaa is Sreed
19:28:05 <Zakim> +Sreed; got it
19:28:07 <dug> dug has joined #ws-ra
19:28:27 <Bob> zakim, aabb is paulN
19:28:27 <Zakim> +paulN; got it
19:28:55 <Zakim> +Doug_Davis
19:29:27 <Ram> Ram has joined #ws-ra
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19:30:16 <Zakim> +li
19:30:35 <Zakim> +??P11
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19:31:53 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
19:32:11 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:32:12 <Zakim> +Vikas
19:32:25 <Zakim> +fmaciel
19:32:50 <Vikas> Vikas has joined #ws-ra
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19:34:11 <Zakim> +Yves
19:34:11 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
19:34:25 <dug> hey bob
19:35:24 <Tom_Rutt> Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra
19:35:29 <Zakim> +gpilz
19:35:42 <Zakim> -li
19:35:43 <fmaciel> fmaciel has joined #ws-ra
19:35:50 <Bob> scribe: Li Li
19:35:57 <Bob> scribenick: Li
19:35:57 <Zakim> +Mark_Little
19:36:03 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-ra
19:36:09 <Zakim> +li
19:36:23 <Sreed> Sreed has joined #ws-ra
19:36:49 <li> TOPIC: agenda
19:37:39 <Bob> minutes link http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/9/08/2009-08-18.html
19:37:54 <li> TOPIC: approval of minutes
19:38:11 <li> minutes accepted
19:38:45 <DaveS> Thank you Yves
19:39:55 <li> TOPIC: snapshot of mex and rt
19:40:17 <li> ram has some comments
19:40:58 <li> dug and ram figure out which comments
19:41:22 <dug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Aug/0055.html
19:43:45 <li> snapshots of mex and rt accepted
19:44:38 <li> TOPIC: review action items
19:45:13 <dug> q+
19:45:36 <li> TOPIC: progress on ws-frag
19:45:40 <dug> q-
19:46:09 <li> ram: needs a few more days to polish
19:47:10 <li> bob: fpwd needs to be out by sept (next week) in order to hold out schedule
19:47:22 <li> ram: that's acceptable
19:47:47 <li> TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7365
19:49:16 <li> bob: objection to proposal?
19:49:35 <li> 7365 resolved as proposed
19:50:00 <li> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7235
19:50:11 <dug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Aug/0070.html
19:52:09 <li> dug: explain issue and proposal
19:52:18 <dug> ** New dialect 
19:52:20 <dug> definitions MUST include sufficient information for proper application. 
19:52:21 <dug> For example, it would need to include the context (which data) over which 
19:52:23 <dug> the filter operates.  ***
19:53:34 <Zakim> -??P11
19:53:54 <asir> q+ to ask a question
19:54:14 <Zakim> +??P11
19:54:15 <li> bob: append proposed text to spec?
19:54:19 <Bob> ack asir
19:54:19 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to ask a question
19:54:52 <li> asir: when does context change?
19:55:28 <li> dug: context of xpath changes from envelope to event data
19:55:29 <asir> q+ to follow up
19:55:50 <li> context may change for other uri too, like actionURI
19:55:51 <Bob> ack asir
19:55:51 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to follow up
19:56:10 <gpilz> q+
19:56:24 <li> asir: i don't recall discussing change of context being discussed
19:56:37 <Bob> ack gp
19:56:52 <dug> "... a new dialect might be defined to support filtering based on data not included in the notification message itself."
19:56:54 <dug> q+
19:57:20 <li> gil: generic use of xpath is insufficient as it doesn't tell the context
19:57:42 <li> therefore, ws-e needs a new uri to convey the context
19:58:20 <li> asir: it's new to me that uri indicates context
19:58:24 <Bob> ack dug
19:58:59 <Tom_Rutt> q+
19:59:27 <asir> q+
19:59:30 <Bob> ack tom
19:59:45 <li> dug: filter always needs context
19:59:59 <li> tom: do we need context to complicate thing?
20:00:17 <Bob> ack asir
20:00:19 <Zakim> -Mark_Little
20:00:22 <li> dug: yes, we have filter on action, topic, etc. beside just event data itself
20:00:28 <dug> q+
20:00:51 <Bob> ack dug
20:01:12 <li> asir: uri needs to point to stable xpath
20:01:43 <li> dug: maybe to separate flexibility to another issue
20:02:15 <asir> q+
20:02:16 <li> bob: we can define a uri for backward compability
20:02:25 <Bob> ack asir
20:02:31 <gpilz> q+
20:02:53 <Bob> ack gp
20:03:13 <li> asir: it's ok if this is a simple case
20:03:15 <asir> asir: if we were to define our own namespace name then this would be a unique case and not set any precedence
20:03:44 <li> gil: we have to do it as gil explained the use cases
20:03:58 <li> s/gil/dug/
20:05:21 <li> asir: it's not clear what is replaced
20:05:34 <dug> q+
20:06:09 <li> dug: two parts: one is to swap out uri; the other is the text
20:07:27 <dug> next text is in:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Aug/0070.html
20:07:37 <dug> s/next/new/
20:08:36 <li> figuring out the consolidated proposal...
20:09:35 <li> asir: make uri to xpath 1.0?
20:09:55 <li> daves: a different uri for xpath 2.0 then?
20:09:55 <asir> Here is the draft proposal
20:09:56 <asir> 1. Append to Section '[Body]/wse:Subscribe/wse:Filter/@Dialect 
20:09:56 <asir> '
20:09:56 <asir> *** New dialect definitions MUST include sufficient information for proper application. For example, it would need to include the context (which data) over which the filter operates.  ***
20:09:56 <asir> 2. Replace http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xpath-19991116 with http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-evt/Dialects/XPath10
20:10:13 <dug> 3. and similar for enum
20:10:29 <Ram> Ram has joined #ws-ra
20:11:06 <li> bob: any object to the above proposal to 7235?
20:11:21 <li> bob: resolved with no objection
20:11:33 <li> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7270
20:12:04 <dug> Unless otherwise noted, all URIs are absolute URIs and URI comparison MUST be performed according to [RFC 3986] section 6.2.1.
20:12:39 <Ram> Ram has joined #ws-ra
20:13:20 <Ram> test
20:13:44 <gpilz> q+
20:13:48 <dug> q-
20:14:03 <gpilz> q-
20:14:10 <li> yves: it's better to stay within uri instead of iri
20:14:30 <li> object to the proposal?
20:14:31 <Ram> q+
20:14:38 <Bob> ack ram
20:14:59 <dug> q+
20:15:18 <li> ram: any exception to the general rule?
20:15:28 <dug> q-
20:15:51 <li> dug: i couldn't find any...
20:16:10 <Ram> q+
20:16:13 <li> 7270 resolved as proposed
20:16:29 <li> TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7160
20:17:19 <dug> need format text  :-)
20:17:22 <dug> s/format/formal/
20:17:26 <li> 7160 accepted
20:17:55 <li> bob: 7426 accepted as new issue
20:18:16 <Ram> q+
20:18:19 <li> bob: ban the use of iri where uri comparison is used
20:18:23 <Bob> ack ram
20:18:44 <dug> can we see some text?
20:19:44 <li> AI for yves to propose text for 7426
20:20:01 <asir> Action: Yves to propose text for issue 7426
20:20:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-97 - Propose text for issue 7426 [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-01].
20:20:36 <li> TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7196
20:20:55 <asir> Didn't you resolve it last week?
20:20:59 <dug> q+
20:21:14 <asir> doubly resolved!
20:21:41 <Bob> ack dug
20:22:02 <li> bob: 7196 resolved
20:22:36 <dug> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6533
20:22:52 <li> yves: explain the issue
20:22:58 <dug> q+
20:23:57 <Bob> ack dug
20:24:12 <li> dug: why do we need this?
20:25:01 <li> yves: we need to specify the property of that operation
20:25:20 <li> dug: do we need to do the same for "getstatus"?
20:25:47 <asir> q+
20:25:54 <li> yves: we should spell out for all safe operations
20:26:02 <Bob> ack asir
20:26:03 <gpilz> +1
20:26:07 <li> dug: then we need to apply it to all specs
20:26:58 <li> asir: why not idempotent?
20:27:13 <asir> Here is a link to Feb discussion ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Feb/0045.html
20:27:36 <gpilz> q+
20:27:44 <Bob> ack gp
20:27:46 <li> yves: we could do that if people like it
20:28:09 <li> gil: this is a constraint on implementations
20:28:43 <li> ..we should do it for other specs as well
20:28:49 <dug> +1 obviously
20:29:14 <li> gil: find all safe operations first
20:29:58 <li> ACTION: yves to include all safe operations in all specs
20:29:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-98 - Include all safe operations in all specs [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-01].
20:30:15 <gpilz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Aug/att-0057/wseventing_6401-6.html
20:30:41 <li> TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6401
20:30:52 <Zakim> -Sreed
20:31:21 <li> gil: explain the new proposal 6401
20:31:58 <dug> q+
20:32:29 <dug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Aug/att-0061/ws-eventing-6401-6-dug2.doc
20:32:51 <li> looks ok to me
20:33:45 <dug> interesting - I'm missing the section header for appendix A when I look at the html version too - but the word doc is ok
20:38:21 <li> dug: some editorial changes, remove duplicates about mex
20:38:24 <Bob> Dug presents an amended proposal
20:38:33 <Ram> I would like to understand this sentence in Dug's revision: "An Event Source there MUST NOT exist more than one EventDescription document."
20:38:55 <Ram> q+
20:38:58 <dug> q-
20:39:05 <Bob> ack ram
20:39:25 <gpilz> q+
20:39:37 <li> ram: why that constraint?
20:40:04 <Bob> ack gp
20:40:19 <li> dug: it's in the original proposal
20:40:34 <asir> q+
20:41:36 <li> gil: more than ED document complicates relations to NW
20:41:52 <Bob> ack asir
20:42:06 <dug> q+
20:42:32 <li> asir: i don't fully understand the requirement
20:42:48 <li> ...to relate ED and NW
20:43:06 <Bob> ack dug
20:44:26 <asir> q+
20:44:45 <li> dug: one ED doc should be returned, more than one adds complexity
20:45:20 <li> ... one ED doc hides complexity
20:45:20 <Bob> ack asir
20:45:36 <dug> q+ to ask a clarifying question
20:45:53 <li> asir: multiple docs is supported by mex in multi sections
20:46:07 <gpilz> q+
20:46:16 <Bob> ack dug
20:46:16 <Zakim> dug, you wanted to ask a clarifying question
20:46:44 <li> dug: what subscriber do with multii docs?
20:46:58 <li> s/multii/multi/
20:47:48 <li> asir: client handles multi-docs according to the standards
20:47:48 <Bob> ack gp
20:48:41 <li> gil: we are profiling mex
20:48:59 <Zakim> +Doug_Davis.a
20:49:14 <li> ...we make it clear how different parts are related
20:49:15 <asir> Gil - i was only trying to help you! Nothing more.
20:49:44 <Zakim> +Doug_Davis.aa
20:49:48 <Zakim> +JeffM
20:49:51 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis.a
20:50:11 <dug> dug has joined #ws-ra
20:50:27 <dug> sorry - power went out
20:50:28 <li> ...if two ED docs and two NW docs are returned, then which goes which is not clear
20:51:08 <dug> q+
20:51:14 <dug> q-
20:52:16 <asir> Vow .. are we closing 6401?
20:52:18 <li> +q
20:52:22 <dug> never!  :-)
20:52:43 <Bob> ack li
20:53:54 <dug> I can send in a new rev with the typo that Ram noticed fixed
20:53:54 <Ram> q+
20:54:02 <dug> if people want
20:54:20 <Bob> ack ram
20:54:43 <li> li: would like to read it
20:55:18 <li> ram: we would like to postpone it until next week
20:56:09 <Ram> q+
20:56:26 <li> bob: review dug's proposal next week as basis of 6401
20:56:59 <DaveS> Goodnight
20:57:03 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
20:57:06 <gpilz> good job li!
20:57:07 <li> bob: declare victory for today...
20:57:10 <Zakim> -fmaciel
20:57:11 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:57:12 <Zakim> -Yves
20:57:13 <Zakim> -Vikas
20:57:15 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
20:57:16 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis.aa
20:57:17 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
20:57:19 <Zakim> -??P11
20:57:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/25-ws-ra-minutes.html Yves
20:57:21 <Zakim> -li
20:57:27 <gpilz> gpilz has left #ws-ra
20:58:10 <Zakim> -paulN
20:58:18 <Zakim> -JeffM
20:58:48 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis
21:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, gpilz, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM
21:05:02 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
21:05:04 <Zakim> Attendees were Bob_Freund, +1.919.849.aaaa, +1.207.827.aabb, Sreed, paulN, Doug_Davis, li, Ashok_Malhotra, [Microsoft], Vikas, fmaciel, Yves, Tom_Rutt, gpilz, Mark_Little, JeffM