16:47:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:47:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc
16:47:37 <AllanJ> rrsagent, set logs public
16:49:16 <AllanJ> chair: Jim_Allan
16:50:26 <AllanJ> title: UAWG telecon
16:54:19 <AllanJ> Agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
16:54:43 <AllanJ> Agenda+ HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
16:54:56 <AllanJ> Agenda+ Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/
16:55:13 <AllanJ> Agenda+ Face 2 Face
16:57:05 <sharper> sharper has joined #ua
17:01:41 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:48 <Zakim> + +1.408.813.aaaa
17:01:53 <Zakim> - +1.408.813.aaaa
17:01:55 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
17:01:56 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:24 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:02:30 <Zakim> + +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:45 <Zakim> - +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:47 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
17:02:47 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:51 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:02:58 <Zakim> +AllanJ
17:03:05 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:03:12 <sharper> zakim, code?
17:03:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
17:03:34 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:03:41 <AllanJ> zakim, who is here
17:03:41 <Zakim> AllanJ, you need to end that query with '?'
17:03:45 <AllanJ> zakim, who is here?
17:03:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see AllanJ, Jeanne
17:03:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see jeanne, sharper, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, David, trackbot
17:04:00 <Zakim> + +1.408.813.aaaa
17:04:29 <David> I'm in as well
17:04:42 <Zakim> +??P9
17:04:43 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
17:04:45 <sharper> zakim, ??P9 is sharper
17:04:45 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
17:04:53 <jeanne> zakim, aaaa is David
17:04:53 <Zakim> +David; got it
17:05:21 <jeanne> zakim, P9 is sharper
17:05:21 <Zakim> sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
17:05:23 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:05:37 <jeanne> zakim, ??p9 is really sharper
17:05:37 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
17:05:37 <sharper> Present+ Harper_Simon (SH-sharper)
17:06:33 <Zakim> +Kim
17:07:25 <Zakim> +Greg
17:08:20 <jeanne> zakim, what time is it?
17:08:20 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, jeanne.
17:08:27 <jeanne> zakim, time?
17:08:27 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, jeanne.
17:08:59 <jeanne> http://time.gov/
17:09:15 <jeanne> 13:09
17:11:09 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
17:11:09 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:11:10 <Zakim> 1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from AllanJ]
17:11:11 <Zakim> 2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:11:12 <Zakim> 3. Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/ [from AllanJ]
17:11:13 <Zakim> 4. Face 2 Face [from AllanJ]
17:12:47 <jeanne> regrets+ Jan, Kelly
17:13:11 <sharper> present: Allan_James (JA-AllanJ), Spellman_Jeanne (JS-jeanne), Patch_Kim (KP-KimPatch),  Lowney_Greg (GL-Greg), Tseng_David (DT-David)
17:13:35 <sharper> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 20 Aug 2009
17:13:58 <sharper> regrets: Ford_Kelly (KF-KFord), Swan_Henny (HS-Henny), Richards_Jan (JR), Hakkinen_Mark (MH-mth)
17:14:36 <sharper> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JulSep/0050.html
17:14:49 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
17:14:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:14:49 <sharper> zakim, close item 1
17:14:51 <Zakim> agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed
17:14:52 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:14:53 <Zakim> 2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:15:00 <sharper> zakim, take up item 4
17:15:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Face 2 Face" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:15:07 <Zakim> -Greg
17:15:23 <sharper> JA: Various F2F locations in discussion 
17:15:49 <sharper> JS: TPAC - we can have a spot if we want it - thursday / friday
17:16:07 <sharper> JS: 5th / 6th November
17:16:47 <sharper> JA: Domain Working Group - possibility of video workshop
17:16:53 <sharper> JA: Thoughts?
17:17:19 <sharper> JA: $50 registration fee / who can make it?
17:17:21 <sharper> David +1
17:17:42 <sharper> Jeanne +1
17:17:44 <sharper> Kim +1
17:17:47 <sharper> Simon -1
17:18:05 <sharper> Jim +1(?)
17:18:21 <sharper> Kelly +1 (?)
17:18:30 <sharper> zakim, who's here?
17:18:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see AllanJ, Jeanne, David, sharper, Kim
17:18:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Greg, KimPatch, jeanne, sharper, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, David, trackbot
17:18:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:19:12 <sharper> regrets- Hakkinen_Mark (MH-mth)
17:19:18 <sharper> present+ Hakkinen_Mark (MH-mth)
17:19:20 <Zakim> +??P10
17:19:39 <sharper> zakim, ??P10 is Greg
17:19:39 <Zakim> +Greg; got it
17:19:56 <AllanJ> zakim, IPcaller is really Mark
17:19:56 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
17:21:09 <sharper> Greg: can attend first day
17:21:15 <sharper> Mark +1
17:22:42 <AllanJ> www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/
17:23:38 <sharper> RESOLVED: JS to send email - TPAC confirmed for Face2Face in Santa Clara - 5th / 6th November 2009 ( www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/ )
17:24:02 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
17:24:02 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:24:04 <Zakim> 2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:24:05 <Zakim> 3. Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/ [from AllanJ]
17:24:06 <Zakim> 4. Face 2 Face [from AllanJ]
17:25:32 <sharper> agenda+ Call Duration
17:25:44 <sharper> zakim, close item 4
17:25:44 <Zakim> agendum 4, Face 2 Face, closed
17:25:44 <sharper> zakim, take up item 5
17:25:45 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:25:46 <Zakim> 2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:25:47 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Call Duration" taken up [from sharper]
17:26:07 <sharper> JS: should we cut the call suration from 90 to 60 miutes
17:27:26 <sharper> s/miutes/minutes
17:27:36 <sharper> s/suration/duration/
17:27:37 <sharper> JS orig request from JR
17:28:06 <sharper> AJ: Leave at 90, JS can drop off if need be, can finish early if required.
17:28:26 <sharper> RESOLVED: Leave at 90 but finish early id there are no pressing matters.
17:28:36 <sharper> zakim, close item 5
17:28:36 <Zakim> agendum 5, Call Duration, closed
17:28:37 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
17:28:38 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:28:40 <Zakim> 2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:28:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:30:17 <sharper> JA: WAI-CG is looking for broad strokes
17:30:44 <sharper> JA: But may be nuance, and a moving target
17:31:15 <sharper> JA: Canvas concept of fallback concept - not a good mechanism for this.
17:31:57 <sharper> JA: really html5 spec is also about building the UA
17:32:37 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
17:32:37 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:32:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:33:15 <sharper> JS: need to get out point of view across before its too late as html5 is now moving very fast.
17:33:41 <sharper> JS: get a lot fast / as opposed to detail in 2 months
17:34:05 <sharper> JS: only 2 more weeks to get this done - our part is required as fast as possible - to PF
17:34:57 <sharper> regrets- Hakkinen_Mark_(MH-mth)
17:35:11 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:35:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:37:15 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
17:37:21 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-agenda.rdf
17:37:28 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:37:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:39:38 <sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon
17:39:38 <sharper> ScribeNick: sharper
17:40:38 <sharper> JA: As we find more html5 issues send them to the list.
17:41:13 <sharper> RESOLVED: As we find more html5 issues send them to the list. We only have 1 week or so.
17:42:15 <sharper> Open Issues - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open 
17:42:23 <sharper> Open Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open 
17:43:12 <sharper> ACTIONS start at 213
17:43:55 <sharper> JA: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/213
17:44:08 <sharper> HS: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/214
17:44:17 <sharper> KF: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/215
17:44:36 <sharper> MH: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/216
17:44:41 <AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open
17:44:49 <sharper> KP: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/218
17:45:01 <sharper> JA: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/220
17:45:34 <sharper> SH: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/217
17:45:42 <sharper> SH: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/219
17:46:22 <sharper> JA: GL will pick
17:47:54 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JulSep/0035.html
17:48:42 <sharper> JA: DT to take the DOM and elements sections both section 3 and 4 with overlaps
17:49:36 <AllanJ> Action: DT to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:49:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - DT
17:49:52 <AllanJ> Action: Davit_Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:49:52 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Davit_Tseng
17:50:09 <AllanJ> Action: David Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:50:09 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - David
17:50:09 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ddavidts, dpoehlma)
17:50:23 <AllanJ> Action: DTseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:50:23 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - DTseng
17:50:23 <David> ddavidts
17:50:50 <AllanJ> Action: ddavidts to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:50:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-221 - Review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [on David Tseng David Tseng - due 2009-08-27].
17:51:04 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
17:52:25 <sharper> RESOLVED: PLEASE COMPLETE THE HTML5 ACTIONS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE - CAN BE CLEANED UP BY JA AND WAI-WG.
17:52:39 <sharper> zakim, close item 2
17:52:39 <Zakim> agendum 2, HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html, closed
17:52:41 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:52:42 <Zakim> 3. Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/ [from AllanJ]
17:52:53 <sharper> zakim, take up item 3
17:52:53 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:53:09 <AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results
17:53:52 <sharper> 4.6 Searching suggests something we do over many documents - find is some thing we do inside a document - although I realize find is what we do to action the searching. Changing "search" to "find" for GL 4.6 title and all success criteria in GL 4.6
17:54:01 <AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x11
17:54:42 <sharper> 2 accepts - 4 neutral - comments needs to wordsmith to accept.
17:55:48 <sharper> Find in Media
17:55:58 <sharper> GL 4.6 is about text content - but does this mean captions in multimedia - and if so is it the player or the browsers responsibility to offer this functionality?
17:56:08 <sharper> 3 yes 2 depends
17:57:33 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x81
17:58:27 <sharper> GL: functionality required, but can it be done / what does this already?
17:58:44 <sharper> KP: like some word processors 
17:59:54 <sharper> GL: How does this stuff already work?
18:01:30 <sharper> GL: would it be accurate to say we do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if it is acceptable to make it a requirement.
18:03:59 <AllanJ> SH: what if captions are there but hidden by css or javascript, such as expand/contract elements
18:04:19 <AllanJ> is this a technique or do we need a success criteria
18:04:47 <sharper> ISSUE: We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if it is acceptable to make it a requirement.
18:04:47 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-40 - We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if it is acceptable to make it a requirement. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/40/edit .
18:07:04 <AllanJ> ISSUE: We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if search of alternative, embedded, or plugin content is acceptable to make it a requirement.
18:07:04 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-41 - We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if search of alternative, embedded, or plugin content is acceptable to make it a requirement. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/41/edit .
18:08:55 <AllanJ> SH: if something consumes input, but the UA and AT know nothing about it then it is a UA 
18:10:19 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x82
18:10:27 <sharper> What if no find function?
18:10:33 <sharper> If search / find is not included in the UA functionality - does a UA need to add it specifically to meet our guidelines?
18:10:42 <sharper> 5 yes / 2 depends
18:12:19 <sharper> GL: Answered by the answer to http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x83
18:16:21 <sharper> 4.6.1 Search Rendered Content
18:16:51 <sharper> 4.6.1 Search Content: The user can perform a search within rendered content (e.g., not hidden with a style) for text and text alternatives for a sequence of characters from the document character set. (Level A)
18:20:29 <AllanJ> SH: remove 'rendered' and 'not hidden' so search will find captions, hidden content, anything in the dom
18:20:53 <AllanJ> ...and if you find, how do you get to hidden content.
18:21:46 <AllanJ> GL: proposal - user option to search only rendered text or include  alternative content (alt, titles, caption, etc.)
18:22:43 <AllanJ> GL: searching text and text alternatives within rendered elements.
18:23:19 <AllanJ> SH: hidden content is a problem.
18:23:56 <AllanJ> GL: provide scenario of where searching hidden content is a problem.
18:24:36 <AllanJ> SH: expands GL proposal on search options (advanced search)
18:24:57 <Zakim> -David
18:25:18 <AllanJ> GL: searching hidden content is more usability than accessibility
18:25:50 <AllanJ> KP: find is really useful for speech users
18:28:08 <sharper> ACTION: SH to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results
18:28:08 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - SH
18:28:08 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sharper, shayes)
18:28:26 <sharper> ACTION: sharper to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results
18:28:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-222 - Back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results [on Simon Harper - due 2009-08-27].
18:28:49 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:28:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:29:21 <Zakim> -Mark
18:29:23 <Zakim> -Kim
18:29:26 <Zakim> -Greg
18:29:44 <Zakim> -sharper
18:30:44 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:30:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:31:17 <sharper> zakim, please part
18:31:17 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were AllanJ, Jeanne, +1.408.813.aaaa, David, sharper, Kim, Greg, Mark
18:31:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:31:27 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:31:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:32:01 <sharper> rrsagent, please part
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-actions.rdf :
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DT to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [1]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-49-36
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Davit_Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [2]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-49-52
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [3]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-50-09
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DTseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [4]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-50-23
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ddavidts to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [5]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-50-50
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SH to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results [6]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T18-28-08
18:32:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sharper to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results [7]
18:32:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T18-28-26