IRC log of swxg on 2009-08-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:46:15 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
12:46:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-swxg-irc
12:48:11 [hhalpin]
hhalpin has changed the topic to: "Social Web XG Meeting August 19th"
12:50:02 [hhalpin]
Zakim, what's the conference code?
12:50:02 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I don't know what conference this is
12:50:44 [rreck]
rreck has joined #SWXG
12:52:52 [rreck]
aloha
12:53:19 [cperey]
cperey has joined #swxg
12:53:26 [Rob]
Rob has joined #swxg
12:53:27 [cperey]
hi
12:53:35 [Rob]
hi
12:55:06 [tpa]
tpa has joined #swxg
12:55:38 [tpa]
tpa has joined #swxg
12:55:44 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg
12:56:06 [melvster]
melvster has joined #swxg
12:57:33 [tinkster]
7994, right?
12:57:46 [bblfish]
hi
12:57:53 [AlexPassant]
hi all
12:57:59 [melvster]
yes, it spells SWXG on the phone
12:58:07 [bblfish]
I'm in Amsterdam now :-)
12:58:08 [melvster]
hi :)
12:58:13 [tinkster]
Well, nobody else seemed to be there, so I've hung up.
12:58:38 [rreck]
i did the same
12:59:18 [rreck]
i just joined again but didnt see an indication of it in the chat channel
12:59:50 [tinkster]
Zakim, this is SWXG
12:59:50 [Zakim]
ok, tinkster; that matches INC_SWXG()9:00AM
13:00:12 [Zakim]
+??P14
13:00:14 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.08.01.aabb
13:00:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.785.583.aacc
13:00:32 [oshani]
oshani has joined #swxg
13:00:39 [melvster]
one is me :)
13:00:42 [rreck]
and me
13:00:43 [Zakim]
+??P18
13:00:51 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P18 is me
13:00:51 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
13:00:59 [rreck]
ill call in again
13:01:03 [Zakim]
+ +63.59.2.aadd
13:01:05 [Zakim]
-??P9
13:01:10 [melvster]
Zakim, ??P14 is me
13:01:10 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
13:01:17 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.848.aaee
13:01:27 [Zakim]
+??P9
13:01:28 [Zakim]
+??P21
13:01:30 [tpa]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
13:01:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.505.982.aaaa, melvster, +46.1.08.01.aabb, +1.785.583.aacc, AlexPassant, +63.59.2.aadd, +1.617.848.aaee, ??P9, ??P21
13:01:33 [cperey]
zakim +1.617.848.aaee is me
13:01:39 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's making noise?
13:01:41 [tpa]
Zakim, aadd is me
13:01:41 [Zakim]
+tpa; got it
13:01:45 [hajons]
hajons has joined #swxg
13:01:49 [Zakim]
hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P9 (59%), +1.505.982.aaaa (9%), ??P21 (10%)
13:01:53 [tinkster]
one is me too.
13:01:59 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P9 is hhalpin
13:01:59 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
13:02:08 [rreck]
zakim ??P21 is me
13:02:11 [cperey]
how do I claim a number?
13:02:14 [Zakim]
+FabGandon
13:02:16 [rreck]
zakim, ??P21 is me
13:02:16 [Zakim]
+rreck; got it
13:02:16 [hhalpin]
1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-08-19T13:00-15:00Z
13:02:19 [Zakim]
- +1.785.583.aacc
13:02:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.785.583.aaff
13:02:41 [cperey]
zakim, +1.617.848.aaee is me
13:02:41 [Zakim]
+cperey; got it
13:02:58 [Zakim]
+MIT531
13:03:00 [hhalpin]
chair: hhalpin
13:03:01 [tinkster]
Zakim, +1.785.583.aaff might be me
13:03:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+1.785.583.aaff might be me', tinkster
13:03:14 [tinkster]
Zakim, +1.785.583.aaff is me
13:03:14 [Zakim]
+tinkster; got it
13:03:19 [tinkster]
(I think)
13:04:49 [Zakim]
+??P0
13:04:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.314.683.aagg
13:04:57 [hhalpin]
Zakim, MIT531 is NathanEagle
13:04:57 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'MIT531'
13:04:58 [danbri]
zakim, ??P0 is danbri
13:04:58 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
13:05:10 [hhalpin]
# chair: hhalpin
13:05:17 [hhalpin]
chair: hhalpin
13:05:26 [tinkster]
I don't mind.
13:05:28 [cperey]
:-)
13:05:48 [raphael]
raphael has joined #swxg
13:06:03 [FabGandon]
ok
13:06:11 [hhalpin]
scribe: FabGandon
13:06:23 [Rob]
Rob has joined #swxg
13:06:29 [hhalpin]
regrets: Mischa, PeterF
13:06:35 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
13:06:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.505.982.aaaa, melvster, +46.1.08.01.aabb, AlexPassant, tpa, cperey, hhalpin, rreck, FabGandon, tinkster, oshani, danbri, +1.314.683.aagg
13:06:43 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 29th July 2009 as a true record
13:06:49 [hhalpin]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Aug/0006.html
13:06:50 [rreck]
+1 approve minutes
13:06:51 [melvster]
+1
13:06:52 [hajons]
+1
13:06:55 [tinkster]
+1
13:06:57 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. Aug 26th
13:06:58 [cperey]
+1
13:07:06 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 29th July 2009 as a true record
13:07:16 [tinkster]
+1
13:07:16 [rreck]
+1 weekly meetings
13:07:22 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: meet again Wed. Aug 26th
13:07:31 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: we are back on weekly meetings.
13:07:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.272.aahh
13:07:48 [hhalpin]
2. General Organization and Task Forces
13:07:50 [MacTed]
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13:07:55 [hhalpin]
[DONE] ACTION: Mischa to write up Soren and Jonathan's findings from last telecon for final report.
13:07:58 [FabGandon]
... current time may be excluding people of west coast
13:08:04 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members
13:08:09 [FabGandon]
... for the agenda of next meeting
13:08:13 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin to summarize metrics and gypsii talk.
13:08:24 [hhalpin]
[DONE] ACTION: danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg
13:08:34 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
13:08:34 [lkagal]
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13:08:40 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin to have http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf would refer to the new version, there will be a 'previous version' link to the current one
13:08:41 [bblfish]
Zakim, + +1.781.272.aahh is me
13:08:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+ +1.781.272.aahh is me', bblfish
13:08:52 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
13:08:53 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:hhalpin take action to clean up the web-page and make it less intimidating to those who aren't members
13:09:08 [bblfish]
Zakim, +1.781.272.aahh is me
13:09:08 [Zakim]
+bblfish; got it
13:09:08 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
13:09:09 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
13:09:21 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
13:09:21 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
13:09:23 [hhalpin]
[DONE] ACTION: Melvster to draft columns=network rows=tech matrix for tech report
13:09:25 [FabGandon]
danbri: wookie new apache project
13:09:58 [FabGandon]
.... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Aug/0051.html
13:10:22 [FabGandon]
... "Wookie is a Java server application that allows you to upload and deploy widgets for your applications. Wookie is based on the W3C Widgets specification, but widgets can also be included that use extended APIs such as Google Wave Gadgets and OpenSocial."
13:10:34 [hhalpin]
+1 to DanBri's wookie+ opera+widget proposal
13:10:40 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's making noise?
13:10:45 [melvster]
yep
13:10:51 [Zakim]
hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danbri (35%)
13:10:52 [Adam]
Adam has joined #swxg
13:10:54 [hhalpin]
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tL_pHzU2JRih72ULVgD0xuQ&output=html
13:11:31 [FabGandon]
hhalpin : melvin went through the use cases, deduced the functionalities,
13:11:37 [bblfish]
yes
13:11:38 [tinkster]
yes
13:12:13 [Zakim]
+karl
13:13:29 [FabGandon]
melvster : put up a template for identifying what can be done with existing frameworks
13:13:38 [MacTed]
Yes/Partial/No is good. "Planned" might be a good additional value?
13:13:44 [FabGandon]
hhalpin : so many possible use cases
13:13:46 [rreck]
i think its helpful to keep the number, but each have an owner
13:13:59 [cperey]
+1 with Ron's recommendation
13:14:05 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
13:14:05 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
13:14:13 [tinkster]
7.7 was my user story, so I can be made its champion.
13:14:15 [FabGandon]
.... some use cases are very technical other not, there are a lot of differences
13:14:59 [rreck]
+1 common level of abstraction
13:15:09 [FabGandon]
... should we use a questionnaire to compare them and get a feeling of what people think about
13:16:33 [cperey]
the distinction is between the feature and the "how" it is implemented
13:16:55 [bblfish]
but you don't want to make the use case/stories too complex
13:17:01 [rreck]
feature is useful, i think we are not in a position to recommend the how
13:17:02 [hhalpin]
quite tricky!
13:17:02 [bblfish]
so you have to keep them simple
13:17:18 [FabGandon]
ted : you would need single sign on to to some oif these things
13:17:31 [rreck]
we could say, i think it might be done using..<foo>
13:17:32 [hhalpin]
(it might need to be in text).
13:17:40 [FabGandon]
... what have been implented that allows this use cases ?
13:17:51 [cperey]
how the feature is implemented
13:18:40 [cperey]
it's a third dimension?
13:18:57 [FabGandon]
henry : an additional problem is how there are implemented
13:19:06 [rreck]
plus, as technology changes it would deprecate our how to analysis, whereas the feature isnt deprecated
13:19:17 [FabGandon]
... we may need an additional matrix / set of criteria
13:19:33 [hhalpin]
aha
13:19:39 [Adam]
to decompose the use case in to the parts that make it up?
13:19:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.265.aaii
13:19:51 [hhalpin]
yes, I think we're heading into decomposition of use-case.
13:20:27 [bblfish]
well it's all interesting
13:20:31 [rreck]
i think #1 each gets a champion
13:20:34 [cperey]
and a lot of work
13:20:34 [bblfish]
there are some use cases that are way too big
13:20:41 [hhalpin]
agreed bblfish.
13:20:43 [FabGandon]
hhalpin : instead of a questionnaire should we have 4 people looking at the use cases ?
13:20:47 [rreck]
+1 champions call
13:20:50 [hhalpin]
So, let's get champions.
13:20:59 [bblfish]
ok, I am interested in this project.
13:21:28 [oshani]
+1 for the questionnaire to select use cases
13:21:30 [hhalpin]
does that make sense?
13:21:33 [bblfish]
so we have micro groups for each use cases
13:21:38 [bblfish]
makes sense
13:21:39 [melvster]
yes, makes sense
13:21:43 [rreck]
-1 dropping usecases that have champions
13:21:45 [bblfish]
pair programming on use cases
13:21:54 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: vote on each use case and the one with enough champions will be kept and detailed.
13:22:05 [rreck]
+1 drop duplicates
13:22:12 [hhalpin]
ok...
13:22:15 [FabGandon]
ted: don't drop any of them unless they are duplicates.
13:22:42 [danbri]
questionaire sounds useful yep
13:22:46 [rreck]
or unless it doesnt have a champion
13:22:47 [bblfish]
but we should simplify.
13:22:54 [hhalpin]
ACTION: hhalpin to make WBS for use-cases champions
13:22:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-66 - Make WBS for use-cases champions [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-08-26].
13:23:05 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
13:23:05 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
13:23:11 [hhalpin]
3. User Stories
13:23:14 [cperey]
remember that once we have been through the process, there could be maintenance
13:23:21 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
13:23:30 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:hhalpin to write up the social network data exchange story
13:23:46 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand ours
13:23:55 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: tinkster to add user story along lines of... if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue.
13:24:07 [hhalpin]
[DONE] ACTION: danbri to write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue
13:24:15 [FabGandon]
danbri: other invited guesses
13:24:24 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on shill case
13:24:33 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: open micro-bloging would be interesting to
13:24:36 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: rreck to send some thoughts on new template to be sent out to listserv.
13:25:08 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets
13:25:16 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C.
13:25:35 [FabGandon]
wiki page of invited guesses : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries
13:25:50 [FabGandon]
s/guesses/guests
13:25:51 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP
13:26:06 [hhalpin]
5. Guest Speaker: Nathan Eagle
13:26:16 [danbri]
on my todo list then: xmpp, identi.ca, dataportability, widgets, microformats / ben ward
13:26:29 [hhalpin]
5. Guest Speaker: Nathan Eagle
13:27:13 [hhalpin]
Nathan Eagle was brought to our attention by Hakan.
13:27:49 [hhalpin]
algorithms trained on mobile phone date
13:28:00 [FabGandon]
nathan : http://web.media.mit.edu/~nathan/bio.html
13:29:34 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: how hard to get the data from the phones ?
13:29:44 [hhalpin]
Reality-mining installed invisible spy phone on mobile phone
13:29:49 [hhalpin]
and had to get informed consent.
13:30:14 [FabGandon]
Nathan : we used a logger starting on boot, logging everything, invisible for the user,
13:30:56 [FabGandon]
... hard to scale the installation of an app on every handset
13:31:33 [hhalpin]
scale - the operators have all this data, can get this kinda data without installing spyware
13:31:52 [FabGandon]
... you need to have super computer to study the graph you obtain
13:32:52 [cperey]
+q
13:33:07 [hajons]
+q
13:33:27 [rreck]
it would be neat if private privacy based companies had the data instead of the telecos
13:33:39 [FabGandon]
hhalpin:  we are also interested in the fact you have access in this sort of data
13:33:42 [rreck]
thereby usurping telecos
13:33:55 [hhalpin]
impossible to get the data without the telcos.
13:34:00 [FabGandon]
... how hard for a mobile phone company to access these telco data ?
13:34:08 [rreck]
im sure i could have the app send me the data
13:34:20 [FabGandon]
nathan: telco view these data as their property.
13:34:28 [hhalpin]
ack Christine
13:34:50 [FabGandon]
... these data are viewed more and more valuable and thus the grip is tightening
13:35:23 [rreck]
an new OBAMA initiative!
13:35:35 [FabGandon]
cperey : the telco are also concerned about regulations.
13:36:18 [FabGandon]
nathan : telco are also scared of getting burned by the press
13:37:08 [FabGandon]
... only governments can force them to release the data.
13:37:50 [rreck]
individuals should own their data we all agree but we have like few cards to play
13:38:07 [FabGandon]
... the only use for this data right now is for juridical action
13:38:12 [rreck]
if we vote with our dollar we would have no where to turn
13:38:15 [hhalpin]
ack hajons
13:38:33 [cperey]
-q
13:39:03 [FabGandon]
hajons: different cases in different countries.
13:39:37 [FabGandon]
... hard to explain to the user what kind of data we need and why
13:40:05 [bblfish]
I don't understand, on the iPhone every app can get access to geo location data
13:40:08 [rreck]
imagine if you own the data and someone else holds it for you, you will still be at their mercy
13:40:08 [FabGandon]
... very tricky area and regional problem.
13:40:27 [bblfish]
so it should be real easy to create a service to post that info somewhere
13:41:17 [FabGandon]
nathan: PR is still a big deal in china, but users' reaction is different from one region to another
13:41:27 [rreck]
laptop manufactures put chips in equipment that US govt doesnt like
13:41:48 [bblfish]
CDR the format operators keep the telephone info in
13:41:51 [hhalpin]
interested in this idea that a little app could be put on by installed that provides richer data, i.e. by handset manufacturers apple
13:41:58 [rreck]
for instance Lenovo <sp> isnt allowed in certain places
13:42:02 [FabGandon]
... a mobile phone company can install app hich produce much interesting data than the logs of operators.
13:42:37 [hhalpin]
also interested in this fact that the location isn't in CDR unless a call is made...
13:42:43 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: did you deal with the reality of the variety of handsets
13:43:01 [FabGandon]
nathan : no we worked only with a set of donated nokia
13:43:33 [FabGandon]
...? problem on the iPhone because of the background apps problem (?)
13:43:52 [tinkster]
iphone background apps problem - apps running in the background effectively sleep.
13:44:00 [tinkster]
... can't do any processing.
13:44:28 [hhalpin]
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/
13:45:12 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: geolocation APIs, what needs to be standardized for contextual data in general?
13:45:28 [FabGandon]
... did you have access to contact books?
13:46:05 [hhalpin]
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/08/14/0900282106.abstract
13:46:07 [FabGandon]
nathan: we show how top link behaviour and real network of friends
13:46:20 [hhalpin]
Full article: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/08/14/0900282106.full.pdf+html
13:46:44 [FabGandon]
also : http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2009/817/1
13:46:56 [danbri]
(v interesting)
13:47:19 [FabGandon]
extract : Just by analyzing the calling patterns, the researchers could accurately label two people as friends or nonfriends more than 95% of the time.
13:47:43 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: how to validate friendship
13:48:00 [rreck]
i wonder if you could infer fellow terrorist cell members? i wonder who might fund that analysis.
13:48:00 [FabGandon]
nathan: no way around to ask people to get ground truth
13:48:22 [FabGandon]
.. then use it on the 4 billion data set
13:48:38 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: where did you get the data?
13:48:39 [tinkster]
nonfriends = acquaintances who would not describe themselves as friends (i.e. colleagues, business contacts, etc). Not necessarily enemies.
13:49:10 [FabGandon]
nathan: orginal study reality mining at MIT 5 year ago
13:50:04 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: how can I choose to grant to a company the acces to my location/calls/etc. and make sure the other can't?
13:50:24 [FabGandon]
.. what kind of rich data can you get from mobile phones.
13:50:25 [hhalpin]
so, the telcos get locations when calls are made.
13:50:29 [hhalpin]
but what else is out there?
13:50:48 [FabGandon]
nathan: we didn't really use that much data from phone calls
13:50:55 [hajons]
+q
13:50:56 [FabGandon]
... used bluetooth scanning
13:51:11 [cperey]
+1 on bluetooth
13:51:13 [tinkster]
Bluetooth range is about 10m.
13:51:44 [cperey]
category of mobile social network: proximity communities
13:51:48 [FabGandon]
... to evaluate proximity of people in context (e.g. always clos at 3am sunday morning)
13:51:48 [hhalpin]
so proximity data gathered via bluetooth is the most important.
13:52:27 [FabGandon]
... other expermient with 10 000 bluetooth+GPS+ microphone on every ten minutes for some sec
13:52:43 [tinkster]
s/ten minutes/ten seconds/
13:52:51 [FabGandon]
... use the sampling to detect their context, the media they consume, etc.
13:52:54 [cperey]
what is the name of this study?
13:53:08 [karl]
RRSAgent, pointer?
13:53:08 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-swxg-irc#T13-53-08
13:53:28 [karl]
RRSAgent, make minutes public
13:53:28 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', karl. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:53:30 [FabGandon]
... over 85% of the random sample agreed to do it
13:53:36 [karl]
RRSAgent, make log public
13:54:00 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: needed with a special phone?
13:54:16 [hhalpin]
ack hajons
13:54:16 [FabGandon]
nathan: need the right kind of phone
13:54:51 [bblfish]
I think newer versions of iPhone os will (already does?) allow background apps
13:55:04 [FabGandon]
hajons: one subject of the group is to define ontology to describe context
13:56:01 [FabGandon]
nathan: I work with raw sensor data
13:56:14 [FabGandon]
.. not an expert on sharing context
13:56:33 [FabGandon]
... having a common vocabulary would make sense
13:57:03 [danbri]
"behaviour signatures ... eg dinner with a person on a regular basis ... high likelyhood will report as a friend, ... true in africa, india, finland ... universal rules about our species"
13:57:04 [FabGandon]
... there seems to be an overlap between the different experiments done around the world
13:57:10 [tinkster]
bblfish, quite possibly. How else is one supposed to run an HTTP server on an iPhone? ;-)
13:57:33 [rreck]
this is a great discussion
13:57:46 [FabGandon]
... there could be some universal way to describe generic context e.g. having diner -> friend
13:58:29 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: you worked in very different places and found that there are some similarities.
13:58:39 [Zakim]
-cperey
13:58:51 [rreck]
i think its time i turn my phone off when im not using it.
13:59:01 [hhalpin]
So, it's in the PNAS paper this behavioral signature.
13:59:18 [rreck]
thanks so much for presenting to us
13:59:36 [danbri]
+1
13:59:51 [FabGandon]
+1
13:59:57 [Adam]
+1
14:00:04 [karl]
wonderful information
14:00:15 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: what is the best paper?
14:00:15 [hhalpin]
100 is PNAS paper
14:00:22 [FabGandon]
nathan: IEEE paper
14:00:34 [hhalpin]
IEE paper is 10,000 mobile ambient experiment
14:00:47 [rreck]
is IEEE available?
14:00:55 [rreck]
yes please send the draft
14:01:09 [bblfish]
yes please send draft too :-)
14:01:14 [karl]
for the record, the draft must not be public
14:01:20 [FabGandon]
IEEE paper ? http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/wrapper.jsp?arnumber=4580547
14:01:27 [hajons]
+1
14:01:35 [danbri]
+1 for book draft
14:02:27 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: we are interested in helping researchers to share data. Can you share the data?
14:02:53 [FabGandon]
nathan: I have never seen "sharing agreement" work to my satisfaction.
14:03:01 [hhalpin]
Sensor data from Noka: http://www.sensorplanet.org/
14:03:23 [hhalpin]
Nokia: simple concerns - http://alpha.nokoscope.com/eb2/login
14:03:36 [FabGandon]
... attempts never really materialized because of privacy implications
14:03:43 [rreck]
we cant even determine how to share what my friends are to my satisfaction
14:04:09 [karl]
s/Nokia:/Nokia,/
14:04:15 [FabGandon]
... the reality mining data is online and publicly available but is kind of an exception to the rule
14:04:24 [tinkster]
http://reality.media.mit.edu/download.php - reality mining data
14:05:07 [FabGandon]
... I like the idea of people having to cite my paper before thy use this data.
14:05:18 [FabGandon]
... I spent 3 years gathering these data.
14:06:09 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: we realized it is hard to get data and we hope improve it
14:06:11 [hhalpin]
factions?
14:06:23 [hhalpin]
companies?
14:06:37 [hhalpin]
mobile datas?
14:06:37 [FabGandon]
nathan: many other groups have had the same agenda for many years.
14:06:58 [FabGandon]
... I can give you a list of these groups
14:07:12 [hhalpin]
http://crawdad.cs.dartmouth.edu/
14:08:42 [rreck]
im overwhelmed
14:09:12 [karl]
head spinning
14:09:24 [FabGandon]
nathan: we saw differences in radius, phone frequencies and duration patterns, e.g. in Africa an average of 3sec.
14:09:27 [rreck]
glad its not just me
14:09:37 [hhalpin]
Not in near-term
14:09:59 [hhalpin]
User-generated content in developing world!
14:10:27 [FabGandon]
nathan: we need to develop content for developing world
14:10:32 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: example?
14:10:40 [rreck]
im sure that problem would be solved when the providers recognize it enhances the data they have
14:11:03 [FabGandon]
nathan : like a job posting liste, item to sell
14:11:41 [FabGandon]
... the current cost of it is to high right now
14:11:57 [Zakim]
-AlexPassant
14:12:29 [hhalpin]
http://txteagle.com/
14:12:43 [hhalpin]
Mechanical Turk...
14:12:49 [hhalpin]
Mobile Mechanical Turk for developing world.
14:13:51 [karl]
Wonderful ! really!
14:13:59 [hajons]
great! thanks
14:14:00 [FabGandon]
nathan: send me a reminder to send you the draft.
14:14:08 [rreck]
good question harry
14:14:37 [danbri]
"biggeset impact, trying to encourage legislation, and operators to change pricing schmes"
14:14:41 [FabGandon]
proposes ... ACTION: hhalpin to ask Nathan Eagle for the draft of his chapter
14:14:57 [FabGandon]
ACTION: hhalpin to ask Nathan Eagle for the draft of his chapter
14:14:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-67 - Ask Nathan Eagle for the draft of his chapter [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-08-26].
14:15:22 [hhalpin]
Nathan - data standardization is premature
14:15:22 [Zakim]
- +1.505.982.aaaa
14:15:24 [Zakim]
- +1.314.683.aagg
14:15:25 [rreck]
WOW, that was awesome
14:15:26 [Zakim]
-MacTed
14:15:35 [bblfish]
very interesting
14:15:38 [Zakim]
-tinkster
14:15:40 [hhalpin]
Meeting adjourned
14:15:48 [Adam]
.aagg is me
14:16:54 [tinkster]
FabGandon: aren't most people native speakers (of at least one language)?
14:17:16 [tinkster]
s/FabGandon: are/FabGandon, are/
14:17:44 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: we need to try to finish the Use Cases doc
14:18:01 [FabGandon]
rreck: we should focus on finalizing the use cases
14:18:14 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: may be less invited speakers ?
14:18:27 [bblfish]
sounds good
14:18:36 [bblfish]
can we also discuss the use cases on the mailing list?
14:18:53 [bblfish]
so for example deal with each use case as a seperate mail, and work it out online?
14:19:12 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: we push over next month the use case document
14:19:28 [hhalpin]
that would make sense...
14:19:37 [hhalpin]
some of the use-cases have been discussed very heavily, and others haven't.
14:19:41 [FabGandon]
henry: take the use cases one by one and send email for each one?
14:19:53 [bblfish]
yes
14:20:05 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: five at a time not to flood the list ?
14:20:25 [hhalpin]
ACTION: bblfish to send some e-mail about use-cases out...
14:20:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-68 - Send some e-mail about use-cases out... [on Henry Story - due 2009-08-26].
14:21:02 [FabGandon]
henry: if no one answers on a use case we just drop it
14:21:12 [FabGandon]
hhalpin: ok
14:21:47 [FabGandon]
rreck: the biggest issue raised by Nathan was privacy
14:22:23 [hhalpin]
I like that metaphor that the doctor OWNS your health care information, just like the telco, and that information should be YOURS.
14:22:23 [FabGandon]
+1 fab ; heard Nathan say technology/standards were not the problem
14:22:45 [hhalpin]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:22:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
14:24:11 [hajons]
bye
14:24:14 [FabGandon]
bye
14:24:15 [Zakim]
- +46.1.08.01.aabb
14:24:16 [Zakim]
-tpa
14:24:16 [melvster]
bye
14:24:18 [Zakim]
-hhalpin
14:24:18 [hhalpin]
OK, I'll send the out minutes soon
14:24:23 [Zakim]
-bblfish
14:24:24 [hhalpin]
thanks hajons for pointing us to this researcher!
14:24:26 [Zakim]
-danbri
14:24:27 [Zakim]
-rreck
14:24:31 [Zakim]
-FabGandon
14:24:33 [Zakim]
-melvster
14:24:35 [Zakim]
- +1.631.265.aaii
14:24:38 [Zakim]
-karl
14:29:44 [tinkster]
hhalpin: In the UK at least (possibly the whole EU?) people are entitled to a copy of their medical records. The organisation supplying the copy can charge a fee for the effort of making the copy. The fee was legally limited to a maximum of £50, but I think that was just during the "sunrise" period and it's now dropped to a maximum of £10.
14:31:39 [Zakim]
-oshani
14:31:41 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()9:00AM has ended
14:31:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.505.982.aaaa, +46.1.08.01.aabb, +1.785.583.aacc, AlexPassant, +63.59.2.aadd, melvster, tpa, hhalpin, FabGandon, rreck, cperey, tinkster, oshani, +1.314.683.aagg,
14:31:45 [Zakim]
... danbri, bblfish, MacTed, karl, +1.631.265.aaii
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