IRC log of swxg on 2009-08-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:46:15 [RRSAgent]

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12:46:15 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-swxg-irc

12:48:11 [hhalpin]

hhalpin has changed the topic to: "Social Web XG Meeting August 19th"

12:50:02 [hhalpin]

Zakim, what's the conference code?

12:50:02 [Zakim]

sorry, hhalpin, I don't know what conference this is

12:50:44 [rreck]

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12:52:52 [rreck]

aloha

12:53:19 [cperey]

cperey has joined #swxg

12:53:26 [Rob]

Rob has joined #swxg

12:53:27 [cperey]

hi

12:53:35 [Rob]

hi

12:55:06 [tpa]

tpa has joined #swxg

12:55:38 [tpa]

tpa has joined #swxg

12:55:44 [bblfish]

bblfish has joined #swxg

12:56:06 [melvster]

melvster has joined #swxg

12:57:33 [tinkster]

7994, right?

12:57:46 [bblfish]

hi

12:57:53 [AlexPassant]

hi all

12:57:59 [melvster]

yes, it spells SWXG on the phone

12:58:07 [bblfish]

I'm in Amsterdam now :-)

12:58:08 [melvster]

hi :)

12:58:13 [tinkster]

Well, nobody else seemed to be there, so I've hung up.

12:58:38 [rreck]

i did the same

12:59:18 [rreck]

i just joined again but didnt see an indication of it in the chat channel

12:59:50 [tinkster]

Zakim, this is SWXG

12:59:50 [Zakim]

ok, tinkster; that matches INC_SWXG()9:00AM

13:00:12 [Zakim]

+??P14

13:00:14 [Zakim]

+ +46.1.08.01.aabb

13:00:32 [Zakim]

+ +1.785.583.aacc

13:00:32 [oshani]

oshani has joined #swxg

13:00:39 [melvster]

one is me :)

13:00:42 [rreck]

and me

13:00:43 [Zakim]

+??P18

13:00:51 [AlexPassant]

Zakim, ??P18 is me

13:00:51 [Zakim]

+AlexPassant; got it

13:00:59 [rreck]

ill call in again

13:01:03 [Zakim]

+ +63.59.2.aadd

13:01:05 [Zakim]

-??P9

13:01:10 [melvster]

Zakim, ??P14 is me

13:01:10 [Zakim]

+melvster; got it

13:01:17 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.848.aaee

13:01:27 [Zakim]

+??P9

13:01:28 [Zakim]

+??P21

13:01:30 [tpa]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

13:01:30 [Zakim]

On the phone I see +1.505.982.aaaa, melvster, +46.1.08.01.aabb, +1.785.583.aacc, AlexPassant, +63.59.2.aadd, +1.617.848.aaee, ??P9, ??P21

13:01:33 [cperey]

zakim +1.617.848.aaee is me

13:01:39 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's making noise?

13:01:41 [tpa]

Zakim, aadd is me

13:01:41 [Zakim]

+tpa; got it

13:01:45 [hajons]

hajons has joined #swxg

13:01:49 [Zakim]

hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P9 (59%), +1.505.982.aaaa (9%), ??P21 (10%)

13:01:53 [tinkster]

one is me too.

13:01:59 [hhalpin]

Zakim, ??P9 is hhalpin

13:01:59 [Zakim]

+hhalpin; got it

13:02:08 [rreck]

zakim ??P21 is me

13:02:11 [cperey]

how do I claim a number?

13:02:14 [Zakim]

+FabGandon

13:02:16 [rreck]

zakim, ??P21 is me

13:02:16 [Zakim]

+rreck; got it

13:02:16 [hhalpin]

1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-08-19T13:00-15:00Z

13:02:19 [Zakim]

- +1.785.583.aacc

13:02:40 [Zakim]

+ +1.785.583.aaff

13:02:41 [cperey]

zakim, +1.617.848.aaee is me

13:02:41 [Zakim]

+cperey; got it

13:02:58 [Zakim]

+MIT531

13:03:00 [hhalpin]

chair: hhalpin

13:03:01 [tinkster]

Zakim, +1.785.583.aaff might be me

13:03:01 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+1.785.583.aaff might be me', tinkster

13:03:14 [tinkster]

Zakim, +1.785.583.aaff is me

13:03:14 [Zakim]

+tinkster; got it

13:03:19 [tinkster]

(I think)

13:04:49 [Zakim]

+??P0

13:04:51 [Zakim]

+ +1.314.683.aagg

13:04:57 [hhalpin]

Zakim, MIT531 is NathanEagle

13:04:57 [Zakim]

sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'MIT531'

13:04:58 [danbri]

zakim, ??P0 is danbri

13:04:58 [Zakim]

+danbri; got it

13:05:10 [hhalpin]

# chair: hhalpin

13:05:17 [hhalpin]

chair: hhalpin

13:05:26 [tinkster]

I don't mind.

13:05:28 [cperey]

:-)

13:05:48 [raphael]

raphael has joined #swxg

13:06:03 [FabGandon]

ok

13:06:11 [hhalpin]

scribe: FabGandon

13:06:23 [Rob]

Rob has joined #swxg

13:06:29 [hhalpin]

regrets: Mischa, PeterF

13:06:35 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

13:06:36 [Zakim]

On the phone I see +1.505.982.aaaa, melvster, +46.1.08.01.aabb, AlexPassant, tpa, cperey, hhalpin, rreck, FabGandon, tinkster, oshani, danbri, +1.314.683.aagg

13:06:43 [hhalpin]

PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 29th July 2009 as a true record

13:06:49 [hhalpin]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Aug/0006.html

13:06:50 [rreck]

+1 approve minutes

13:06:51 [melvster]

+1

13:06:52 [hajons]

+1

13:06:55 [tinkster]

+1

13:06:57 [hhalpin]

PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. Aug 26th

13:06:58 [cperey]

+1

13:07:06 [hhalpin]

RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 29th July 2009 as a true record

13:07:16 [tinkster]

+1

13:07:16 [rreck]

+1 weekly meetings

13:07:22 [hhalpin]

RESOLVED: meet again Wed. Aug 26th

13:07:31 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: we are back on weekly meetings.

13:07:41 [Zakim]

+ +1.781.272.aahh

13:07:48 [hhalpin]

2. General Organization and Task Forces

13:07:50 [MacTed]

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13:07:55 [hhalpin]

[DONE] ACTION: Mischa to write up Soren and Jonathan's findings from last telecon for final report.

13:07:58 [FabGandon]

... current time may be excluding people of west coast

13:08:04 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members

13:08:09 [FabGandon]

... for the agenda of next meeting

13:08:13 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin to summarize metrics and gypsii talk.

13:08:24 [hhalpin]

[DONE] ACTION: danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg

13:08:34 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.

13:08:34 [lkagal]

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13:08:40 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin to have http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf would refer to the new version, there will be a 'previous version' link to the current one

13:08:41 [bblfish]

Zakim, + +1.781.272.aahh is me

13:08:41 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+ +1.781.272.aahh is me', bblfish

13:08:52 [Zakim]

+OpenLink_Software

13:08:53 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION:hhalpin take action to clean up the web-page and make it less intimidating to those who aren't members

13:09:08 [bblfish]

Zakim, +1.781.272.aahh is me

13:09:08 [Zakim]

+bblfish; got it

13:09:08 [MacTed]

Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed

13:09:09 [Zakim]

+MacTed; got it

13:09:21 [MacTed]

Zakim, mute me

13:09:21 [Zakim]

MacTed should now be muted

13:09:23 [hhalpin]

[DONE] ACTION: Melvster to draft columns=network rows=tech matrix for tech report

13:09:25 [FabGandon]

danbri: wookie new apache project

13:09:58 [FabGandon]

.... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Aug/0051.html

13:10:22 [FabGandon]

... "Wookie is a Java server application that allows you to upload and deploy widgets for your applications. Wookie is based on the W3C Widgets specification, but widgets can also be included that use extended APIs such as Google Wave Gadgets and OpenSocial."

13:10:34 [hhalpin]

+1 to DanBri's wookie+ opera+widget proposal

13:10:40 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's making noise?

13:10:45 [melvster]

yep

13:10:51 [Zakim]

hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danbri (35%)

13:10:52 [Adam]

Adam has joined #swxg

13:10:54 [hhalpin]

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tL_pHzU2JRih72ULVgD0xuQ&output=html

13:11:31 [FabGandon]

hhalpin : melvin went through the use cases, deduced the functionalities,

13:11:37 [bblfish]

yes

13:11:38 [tinkster]

yes

13:12:13 [Zakim]

+karl

13:13:29 [FabGandon]

melvster : put up a template for identifying what can be done with existing frameworks

13:13:38 [MacTed]

Yes/Partial/No is good. "Planned" might be a good additional value?

13:13:44 [FabGandon]

hhalpin : so many possible use cases

13:13:46 [rreck]

i think its helpful to keep the number, but each have an owner

13:13:59 [cperey]

+1 with Ron's recommendation

13:14:05 [MacTed]

Zakim, unmute me

13:14:05 [Zakim]

MacTed should no longer be muted

13:14:13 [tinkster]

7.7 was my user story, so I can be made its champion.

13:14:15 [FabGandon]

.... some use cases are very technical other not, there are a lot of differences

13:14:59 [rreck]

+1 common level of abstraction

13:15:09 [FabGandon]

... should we use a questionnaire to compare them and get a feeling of what people think about

13:16:33 [cperey]

the distinction is between the feature and the "how" it is implemented

13:16:55 [bblfish]

but you don't want to make the use case/stories too complex

13:17:01 [rreck]

feature is useful, i think we are not in a position to recommend the how

13:17:02 [hhalpin]

quite tricky!

13:17:02 [bblfish]

so you have to keep them simple

13:17:18 [FabGandon]

ted : you would need single sign on to to some oif these things

13:17:31 [rreck]

we could say, i think it might be done using..<foo>

13:17:32 [hhalpin]

(it might need to be in text).

13:17:40 [FabGandon]

... what have been implented that allows this use cases ?

13:17:51 [cperey]

how the feature is implemented

13:18:40 [cperey]

it's a third dimension?

13:18:57 [FabGandon]

henry : an additional problem is how there are implemented

13:19:06 [rreck]

plus, as technology changes it would deprecate our how to analysis, whereas the feature isnt deprecated

13:19:17 [FabGandon]

... we may need an additional matrix / set of criteria

13:19:33 [hhalpin]

aha

13:19:39 [Adam]

to decompose the use case in to the parts that make it up?

13:19:46 [Zakim]

+ +1.631.265.aaii

13:19:51 [hhalpin]

yes, I think we're heading into decomposition of use-case.

13:20:27 [bblfish]

well it's all interesting

13:20:31 [rreck]

i think #1 each gets a champion

13:20:34 [cperey]

and a lot of work

13:20:34 [bblfish]

there are some use cases that are way too big

13:20:41 [hhalpin]

agreed bblfish.

13:20:43 [FabGandon]

hhalpin : instead of a questionnaire should we have 4 people looking at the use cases ?

13:20:47 [rreck]

+1 champions call

13:20:50 [hhalpin]

So, let's get champions.

13:20:59 [bblfish]

ok, I am interested in this project.

13:21:28 [oshani]

+1 for the questionnaire to select use cases

13:21:30 [hhalpin]

does that make sense?

13:21:33 [bblfish]

so we have micro groups for each use cases

13:21:38 [bblfish]

makes sense

13:21:39 [melvster]

yes, makes sense

13:21:43 [rreck]

-1 dropping usecases that have champions

13:21:45 [bblfish]

pair programming on use cases

13:21:54 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: vote on each use case and the one with enough champions will be kept and detailed.

13:22:05 [rreck]

+1 drop duplicates

13:22:12 [hhalpin]

ok...

13:22:15 [FabGandon]

ted: don't drop any of them unless they are duplicates.

13:22:42 [danbri]

questionaire sounds useful yep

13:22:46 [rreck]

or unless it doesnt have a champion

13:22:47 [bblfish]

but we should simplify.

13:22:54 [hhalpin]

ACTION: hhalpin to make WBS for use-cases champions

13:22:54 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-66 - Make WBS for use-cases champions [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-08-26].

13:23:05 [MacTed]

Zakim, mute me

13:23:05 [Zakim]

MacTed should now be muted

13:23:11 [hhalpin]

3. User Stories

13:23:14 [cperey]

remember that once we have been through the process, there could be maintenance

13:23:21 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks

13:23:30 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION:hhalpin to write up the social network data exchange story

13:23:46 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand ours

13:23:55 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: tinkster to add user story along lines of... if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue.

13:24:07 [hhalpin]

[DONE] ACTION: danbri to write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue

13:24:15 [FabGandon]

danbri: other invited guesses

13:24:24 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on shill case

13:24:33 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: open micro-bloging would be interesting to

13:24:36 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: rreck to send some thoughts on new template to be sent out to listserv.

13:25:08 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets

13:25:16 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C.

13:25:35 [FabGandon]

wiki page of invited guesses : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries

13:25:50 [FabGandon]

s/guesses/guests

13:25:51 [hhalpin]

[CONTINUES] ACTION:Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP

13:26:06 [hhalpin]

5. Guest Speaker: Nathan Eagle

13:26:16 [danbri]

on my todo list then: xmpp, identi.ca, dataportability, widgets, microformats / ben ward

13:26:29 [hhalpin]

5. Guest Speaker: Nathan Eagle

13:27:13 [hhalpin]

Nathan Eagle was brought to our attention by Hakan.

13:27:49 [hhalpin]

algorithms trained on mobile phone date

13:28:00 [FabGandon]

nathan : http://web.media.mit.edu/~nathan/bio.html

13:29:34 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: how hard to get the data from the phones ?

13:29:44 [hhalpin]

Reality-mining installed invisible spy phone on mobile phone

13:29:49 [hhalpin]

and had to get informed consent.

13:30:14 [FabGandon]

Nathan : we used a logger starting on boot, logging everything, invisible for the user,

13:30:56 [FabGandon]

... hard to scale the installation of an app on every handset

13:31:33 [hhalpin]

scale - the operators have all this data, can get this kinda data without installing spyware

13:31:52 [FabGandon]

... you need to have super computer to study the graph you obtain

13:32:52 [cperey]

+q

13:33:07 [hajons]

+q

13:33:27 [rreck]

it would be neat if private privacy based companies had the data instead of the telecos

13:33:39 [FabGandon]

hhalpin:  we are also interested in the fact you have access in this sort of data

13:33:42 [rreck]

thereby usurping telecos

13:33:55 [hhalpin]

impossible to get the data without the telcos.

13:34:00 [FabGandon]

... how hard for a mobile phone company to access these telco data ?

13:34:08 [rreck]

im sure i could have the app send me the data

13:34:20 [FabGandon]

nathan: telco view these data as their property.

13:34:28 [hhalpin]

ack Christine

13:34:50 [FabGandon]

... these data are viewed more and more valuable and thus the grip is tightening

13:35:23 [rreck]

an new OBAMA initiative!

13:35:35 [FabGandon]

cperey : the telco are also concerned about regulations.

13:36:18 [FabGandon]

nathan : telco are also scared of getting burned by the press

13:37:08 [FabGandon]

... only governments can force them to release the data.

13:37:50 [rreck]

individuals should own their data we all agree but we have like few cards to play

13:38:07 [FabGandon]

... the only use for this data right now is for juridical action

13:38:12 [rreck]

if we vote with our dollar we would have no where to turn

13:38:15 [hhalpin]

ack hajons

13:38:33 [cperey]

-q

13:39:03 [FabGandon]

hajons: different cases in different countries.

13:39:37 [FabGandon]

... hard to explain to the user what kind of data we need and why

13:40:05 [bblfish]

I don't understand, on the iPhone every app can get access to geo location data

13:40:08 [rreck]

imagine if you own the data and someone else holds it for you, you will still be at their mercy

13:40:08 [FabGandon]

... very tricky area and regional problem.

13:40:27 [bblfish]

so it should be real easy to create a service to post that info somewhere

13:41:17 [FabGandon]

nathan: PR is still a big deal in china, but users' reaction is different from one region to another

13:41:27 [rreck]

laptop manufactures put chips in equipment that US govt doesnt like

13:41:48 [bblfish]

CDR the format operators keep the telephone info in

13:41:51 [hhalpin]

interested in this idea that a little app could be put on by installed that provides richer data, i.e. by handset manufacturers apple

13:41:58 [rreck]

for instance Lenovo <sp> isnt allowed in certain places

13:42:02 [FabGandon]

... a mobile phone company can install app hich produce much interesting data than the logs of operators.

13:42:37 [hhalpin]

also interested in this fact that the location isn't in CDR unless a call is made...

13:42:43 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: did you deal with the reality of the variety of handsets

13:43:01 [FabGandon]

nathan : no we worked only with a set of donated nokia

13:43:33 [FabGandon]

...? problem on the iPhone because of the background apps problem (?)

13:43:52 [tinkster]

iphone background apps problem - apps running in the background effectively sleep.

13:44:00 [tinkster]

... can't do any processing.

13:44:28 [hhalpin]

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/

13:45:12 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: geolocation APIs, what needs to be standardized for contextual data in general?

13:45:28 [FabGandon]

... did you have access to contact books?

13:46:05 [hhalpin]

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/08/14/0900282106.abstract

13:46:07 [FabGandon]

nathan: we show how top link behaviour and real network of friends

13:46:20 [hhalpin]

Full article: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/08/14/0900282106.full.pdf+html

13:46:44 [FabGandon]

also : http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2009/817/1

13:46:56 [danbri]

(v interesting)

13:47:19 [FabGandon]

extract : Just by analyzing the calling patterns, the researchers could accurately label two people as friends or nonfriends more than 95% of the time.

13:47:43 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: how to validate friendship

13:48:00 [rreck]

i wonder if you could infer fellow terrorist cell members? i wonder who might fund that analysis.

13:48:00 [FabGandon]

nathan: no way around to ask people to get ground truth

13:48:22 [FabGandon]

.. then use it on the 4 billion data set

13:48:38 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: where did you get the data?

13:48:39 [tinkster]

nonfriends = acquaintances who would not describe themselves as friends (i.e. colleagues, business contacts, etc). Not necessarily enemies.

13:49:10 [FabGandon]

nathan: orginal study reality mining at MIT 5 year ago

13:50:04 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: how can I choose to grant to a company the acces to my location/calls/etc. and make sure the other can't?

13:50:24 [FabGandon]

.. what kind of rich data can you get from mobile phones.

13:50:25 [hhalpin]

so, the telcos get locations when calls are made.

13:50:29 [hhalpin]

but what else is out there?

13:50:48 [FabGandon]

nathan: we didn't really use that much data from phone calls

13:50:55 [hajons]

+q

13:50:56 [FabGandon]

... used bluetooth scanning

13:51:11 [cperey]

+1 on bluetooth

13:51:13 [tinkster]

Bluetooth range is about 10m.

13:51:44 [cperey]

category of mobile social network: proximity communities

13:51:48 [FabGandon]

... to evaluate proximity of people in context (e.g. always clos at 3am sunday morning)

13:51:48 [hhalpin]

so proximity data gathered via bluetooth is the most important.

13:52:27 [FabGandon]

... other expermient with 10 000 bluetooth+GPS+ microphone on every ten minutes for some sec

13:52:43 [tinkster]

s/ten minutes/ten seconds/

13:52:51 [FabGandon]

... use the sampling to detect their context, the media they consume, etc.

13:52:54 [cperey]

what is the name of this study?

13:53:08 [karl]

RRSAgent, pointer?

13:53:08 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-swxg-irc#T13-53-08

13:53:28 [karl]

RRSAgent, make minutes public

13:53:28 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', karl. Try /msg RRSAgent help

13:53:30 [FabGandon]

... over 85% of the random sample agreed to do it

13:53:36 [karl]

RRSAgent, make log public

13:54:00 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: needed with a special phone?

13:54:16 [hhalpin]

ack hajons

13:54:16 [FabGandon]

nathan: need the right kind of phone

13:54:51 [bblfish]

I think newer versions of iPhone os will (already does?) allow background apps

13:55:04 [FabGandon]

hajons: one subject of the group is to define ontology to describe context

13:56:01 [FabGandon]

nathan: I work with raw sensor data

13:56:14 [FabGandon]

.. not an expert on sharing context

13:56:33 [FabGandon]

... having a common vocabulary would make sense

13:57:03 [danbri]

"behaviour signatures ... eg dinner with a person on a regular basis ... high likelyhood will report as a friend, ... true in africa, india, finland ... universal rules about our species"

13:57:04 [FabGandon]

... there seems to be an overlap between the different experiments done around the world

13:57:10 [tinkster]

bblfish, quite possibly. How else is one supposed to run an HTTP server on an iPhone? ;-)

13:57:33 [rreck]

this is a great discussion

13:57:46 [FabGandon]

... there could be some universal way to describe generic context e.g. having diner -> friend

13:58:29 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: you worked in very different places and found that there are some similarities.

13:58:39 [Zakim]

-cperey

13:58:51 [rreck]

i think its time i turn my phone off when im not using it.

13:59:01 [hhalpin]

So, it's in the PNAS paper this behavioral signature.

13:59:18 [rreck]

thanks so much for presenting to us

13:59:36 [danbri]

+1

13:59:51 [FabGandon]

+1

13:59:57 [Adam]

+1

14:00:04 [karl]

wonderful information

14:00:15 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: what is the best paper?

14:00:15 [hhalpin]

100 is PNAS paper

14:00:22 [FabGandon]

nathan: IEEE paper

14:00:34 [hhalpin]

IEE paper is 10,000 mobile ambient experiment

14:00:47 [rreck]

is IEEE available?

14:00:55 [rreck]

yes please send the draft

14:01:09 [bblfish]

yes please send draft too :-)

14:01:14 [karl]

for the record, the draft must not be public

14:01:20 [FabGandon]

IEEE paper ? http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/wrapper.jsp?arnumber=4580547

14:01:27 [hajons]

+1

14:01:35 [danbri]

+1 for book draft

14:02:27 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: we are interested in helping researchers to share data. Can you share the data?

14:02:53 [FabGandon]

nathan: I have never seen "sharing agreement" work to my satisfaction.

14:03:01 [hhalpin]

Sensor data from Noka: http://www.sensorplanet.org/

14:03:23 [hhalpin]

Nokia: simple concerns - http://alpha.nokoscope.com/eb2/login

14:03:36 [FabGandon]

... attempts never really materialized because of privacy implications

14:03:43 [rreck]

we cant even determine how to share what my friends are to my satisfaction

14:04:09 [karl]

s/Nokia:/Nokia,/

14:04:15 [FabGandon]

... the reality mining data is online and publicly available but is kind of an exception to the rule

14:04:24 [tinkster]

http://reality.media.mit.edu/download.php - reality mining data

14:05:07 [FabGandon]

... I like the idea of people having to cite my paper before thy use this data.

14:05:18 [FabGandon]

... I spent 3 years gathering these data.

14:06:09 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: we realized it is hard to get data and we hope improve it

14:06:11 [hhalpin]

factions?

14:06:23 [hhalpin]

companies?

14:06:37 [hhalpin]

mobile datas?

14:06:37 [FabGandon]

nathan: many other groups have had the same agenda for many years.

14:06:58 [FabGandon]

... I can give you a list of these groups

14:07:12 [hhalpin]

http://crawdad.cs.dartmouth.edu/

14:08:42 [rreck]

im overwhelmed

14:09:12 [karl]

head spinning

14:09:24 [FabGandon]

nathan: we saw differences in radius, phone frequencies and duration patterns, e.g. in Africa an average of 3sec.

14:09:27 [rreck]

glad its not just me

14:09:37 [hhalpin]

Not in near-term

14:09:59 [hhalpin]

User-generated content in developing world!

14:10:27 [FabGandon]

nathan: we need to develop content for developing world

14:10:32 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: example?

14:10:40 [rreck]

im sure that problem would be solved when the providers recognize it enhances the data they have

14:11:03 [FabGandon]

nathan : like a job posting liste, item to sell

14:11:41 [FabGandon]

... the current cost of it is to high right now

14:11:57 [Zakim]

-AlexPassant

14:12:29 [hhalpin]

http://txteagle.com/

14:12:43 [hhalpin]

Mechanical Turk...

14:12:49 [hhalpin]

Mobile Mechanical Turk for developing world.

14:13:51 [karl]

Wonderful ! really!

14:13:59 [hajons]

great! thanks

14:14:00 [FabGandon]

nathan: send me a reminder to send you the draft.

14:14:08 [rreck]

good question harry

14:14:37 [danbri]

"biggeset impact, trying to encourage legislation, and operators to change pricing schmes"

14:14:41 [FabGandon]

proposes ... ACTION: hhalpin to ask Nathan Eagle for the draft of his chapter

14:14:57 [FabGandon]

ACTION: hhalpin to ask Nathan Eagle for the draft of his chapter

14:14:57 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-67 - Ask Nathan Eagle for the draft of his chapter [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-08-26].

14:15:22 [hhalpin]

Nathan - data standardization is premature

14:15:22 [Zakim]

- +1.505.982.aaaa

14:15:24 [Zakim]

- +1.314.683.aagg

14:15:25 [rreck]

WOW, that was awesome

14:15:26 [Zakim]

-MacTed

14:15:35 [bblfish]

very interesting

14:15:38 [Zakim]

-tinkster

14:15:40 [hhalpin]

Meeting adjourned

14:15:48 [Adam]

.aagg is me

14:16:54 [tinkster]

FabGandon: aren't most people native speakers (of at least one language)?

14:17:16 [tinkster]

s/FabGandon: are/FabGandon, are/

14:17:44 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: we need to try to finish the Use Cases doc

14:18:01 [FabGandon]

rreck: we should focus on finalizing the use cases

14:18:14 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: may be less invited speakers ?

14:18:27 [bblfish]

sounds good

14:18:36 [bblfish]

can we also discuss the use cases on the mailing list?

14:18:53 [bblfish]

so for example deal with each use case as a seperate mail, and work it out online?

14:19:12 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: we push over next month the use case document

14:19:28 [hhalpin]

that would make sense...

14:19:37 [hhalpin]

some of the use-cases have been discussed very heavily, and others haven't.

14:19:41 [FabGandon]

henry: take the use cases one by one and send email for each one?

14:19:53 [bblfish]

yes

14:20:05 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: five at a time not to flood the list ?

14:20:25 [hhalpin]

ACTION: bblfish to send some e-mail about use-cases out...

14:20:25 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-68 - Send some e-mail about use-cases out... [on Henry Story - due 2009-08-26].

14:21:02 [FabGandon]

henry: if no one answers on a use case we just drop it

14:21:12 [FabGandon]

hhalpin: ok

14:21:47 [FabGandon]

rreck: the biggest issue raised by Nathan was privacy

14:22:23 [hhalpin]

I like that metaphor that the doctor OWNS your health care information, just like the telco, and that information should be YOURS.

14:22:23 [FabGandon]

+1 fab ; heard Nathan say technology/standards were not the problem

14:22:45 [hhalpin]

RRSAgent, make minutes

14:22:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin

14:24:11 [hajons]

bye

14:24:14 [FabGandon]

bye

14:24:15 [Zakim]

- +46.1.08.01.aabb

14:24:16 [Zakim]

-tpa

14:24:16 [melvster]

bye

14:24:18 [Zakim]

-hhalpin

14:24:18 [hhalpin]

OK, I'll send the out minutes soon

14:24:23 [Zakim]

-bblfish

14:24:24 [hhalpin]

thanks hajons for pointing us to this researcher!

14:24:26 [Zakim]

-danbri

14:24:27 [Zakim]

-rreck

14:24:31 [Zakim]

-FabGandon

14:24:33 [Zakim]

-melvster

14:24:35 [Zakim]

- +1.631.265.aaii

14:24:38 [Zakim]

-karl

14:29:44 [tinkster]

hhalpin: In the UK at least (possibly the whole EU?) people are entitled to a copy of their medical records. The organisation supplying the copy can charge a fee for the effort of making the copy. The fee was legally limited to a maximum of £50, but I think that was just during the "sunrise" period and it's now dropped to a maximum of £10.

14:31:39 [Zakim]

-oshani

14:31:41 [Zakim]

INC_SWXG()9:00AM has ended

14:31:42 [Zakim]

Attendees were +1.505.982.aaaa, +46.1.08.01.aabb, +1.785.583.aacc, AlexPassant, +63.59.2.aadd, melvster, tpa, hhalpin, FabGandon, rreck, cperey, tinkster, oshani, +1.314.683.aagg,

14:31:45 [Zakim]

... danbri, bblfish, MacTed, karl, +1.631.265.aaii

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