IRC log of egov on 2009-08-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:53:36 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:53:36 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:53:39 [josema]
zakim, this will be egov
12:53:39 [Zakim]
ok, josema; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
12:53:49 [josema]
12:56:12 [AdamHarvey]
buenos dias jose
12:56:14 [josema]
agenda+ Agenda adjustments and next meetings
12:56:17 [Daniel_Bennett]
Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
12:56:29 [josema]
agenda+* memo
12:56:37 [josema]
agenda+ Charter and Plan
12:56:50 [josema]
agenda+ What's going on
12:57:41 [josema]
12:58:05 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
12:58:08 [josema]
trackbot, start telcon
12:58:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.443.aaaa
12:58:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:58:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:13 [trackbot]
Date: 19 August 2009
12:58:13 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
12:58:25 [AdamHarvey]
zakim, I am aaaa
12:58:26 [Zakim]
+AdamHarvey; got it
12:59:01 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
12:59:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamHarvey
12:59:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
12:59:14 [josema]
regrets: kevin
12:59:20 [josema]
12:59:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.449.aabb
12:59:39 [Daniel_Bennett]
aabb is Daniel Bennett
12:59:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.310.420.aacc
13:00:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.464.aadd
13:00:07 [josema]
zakim, aabb is Daniel_Bennett
13:00:08 [Zakim]
+Daniel_Bennett; got it
13:00:15 [Zakim]
13:00:24 [Zakim]
- +1.509.464.aadd
13:00:42 [Rachel]
Rachel has joined #egov
13:00:45 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:00:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamHarvey, Daniel_Bennett, +1.310.420.aacc, Josema
13:00:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Rachel, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
13:00:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.564.aaee
13:01:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.464.aaff
13:01:04 [josema]
zakim, aaee is Brand
13:01:07 [Zakim]
+Brand; got it
13:01:19 [josema]
zakim, aaff is Rachel
13:01:19 [Zakim]
+Rachel; got it
13:01:54 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:01:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamHarvey, Daniel_Bennett, +1.310.420.aacc, Josema, Brand, Rachel
13:01:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Rachel, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
13:03:37 [josema]
zakim, aacc is Sylvia
13:03:37 [Zakim]
+Sylvia; got it
13:04:29 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:04:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamHarvey, Daniel_Bennett, Sylvia, Josema, Brand, Rachel
13:04:32 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Rachel, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
13:06:23 [josema]
chair: josema
13:06:31 [josema]
scribe: josema
13:06:35 [Zakim]
13:06:49 [josema]
zakim, ??P3 is owen
13:06:49 [Zakim]
+owen; got it
13:06:53 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:06:53 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Agenda adjustments and next meetings" taken up [from josema]
13:08:12 [josema]
next meeting: 2 Sept, 1300Z
13:08:18 [josema]
next scribe: Daniel
13:08:45 [josema]
josema: any additions?
13:08:53 [josema]
daniel: plenary
13:09:01 [josema]
agenda+ W3C Plenary
13:09:08 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
13:09:10 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "* memo" taken up [from josema]
13:09:19 [Daniel_Bennett]
13:09:33 [Owen]
Owen has joined #egov
13:09:55 [josema]
daniel: difficult to edit the wiki, copied it to Google Docs (see pointer above)
13:10:35 [josema]
... Adam + me made edits for language, additions
13:10:50 [josema]
... sent to group recently as starting point for discussion
13:11:02 [josema]
... we'll use tracker to track comments, etc.
13:11:15 [josema]
... we have one week to discuss before sending out to ETF
13:11:37 [josema]
... expecting to present it at Gov 2.0 Summit
13:11:42 [johnlsheridan]
johnlsheridan has joined #egov
13:12:15 [josema]
... many high level eGov folks attending
13:12:21 [josema]
... good opportunity
13:12:33 [AdamHarvey]
Lots of echo on the call
13:12:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.236.aagg
13:12:41 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
13:12:48 [Zakim]
13:12:51 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 8 (19%), Daniel_Bennett (97%), +1.202.236.aagg (6%)
13:13:03 [josema]
zakim, who is 8?
13:13:03 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, josema.
13:13:08 [johnlsheridan]
13:13:34 [josema]
... expecting to make some PR noise
13:13:34 [johnlsheridan]
sorry I'm late everyone
13:13:48 [josema]
john, can you chair from now on? (I'm scribing)
13:13:52 [johnlsheridan]
13:13:55 [josema]
13:13:59 [josema]
chair: john
13:13:59 [johnlsheridan]
13:15:00 [josema]
... I consider the editor's copy at google to be "outline-complete"
13:15:06 [josema]
... but not "content-complete" yet
13:15:34 [Daniel_Bennett]
13:16:11 [josema]
[daniel reads aloud the first paragraph]
13:16:27 [Zakim]
13:16:58 [Zakim]
+ +49.842.9.aahh
13:17:04 [josema]
zakim, aahh is me
13:17:04 [Zakim]
+josema; got it
13:18:22 [josema]
[daniel goes through document]
13:19:41 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
13:19:52 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Daniel_Bennett (80%)
13:23:08 [johnlsheridan]
13:23:35 [josema]
john: comments?
13:24:05 [josema]
owen: glad to know about target audience being Gov 2.0 Summit attendants
13:24:20 [josema]
... graphics can take a lot of time to produce and review
13:24:45 [josema]
... based on previous experience, so glad to know we have a short time deadline
13:25:21 [josema]
... important to have high quality content
13:25:42 [josema]
zakim, aagg is probably George
13:25:42 [Zakim]
+George?; got it
13:26:10 [josema]
george: I appreciate the effort
13:26:39 [josema]
... for those that are trying this "data transparency" world we probably don't want
13:26:50 [josema]
... to give the impression this is experimental ???
13:27:05 [josema]
... need to work on solid ground ???
13:27:42 [josema]
... how people expect readers will digest this ???
13:28:08 [josema]
... in general looks really great
13:28:27 [josema]
daniel: adam and I talked about doing a potential use case
13:28:46 [josema]
... e.g. a national service that could out up useful data up there
13:29:01 [josema]
... and how people could consume it and visualize it
13:29:13 [josema]
... e.g. graphs of temperatures over a year
13:29:29 [josema]
george: sounds great, good approach
13:29:43 [josema]
... there's also some @@ going on
13:30:12 [josema]
... I was trying to differentiate between APIs and a little more exploration on what Linked Data actually means
13:30:22 [josema]
... what's a triple store kind of thing ???
13:30:24 [johnlsheridan]
13:30:31 [AdamHarvey]
I think George's points will be fleshed out by the small issues papers in the future
13:30:57 [josema]
daniel: [scribe missed]
13:31:12 [josema]
george: john, you are using stuff like Talis, right?
13:31:28 [josema]
john: yeah, and also put together and OSS stack for Linked Data
13:31:35 [ocr]
ocr has joined #egov
13:31:40 [josema]
... we cannot use just one company's approach
13:31:51 [josema]
... need to have something to give to agencies
13:32:18 [josema]
george: Talis is use a good example of where and how to put stuff easily
13:32:25 [josema]
... as an example
13:32:51 [josema]
... this is not so experimental, not rocket science either
13:32:59 [josema]
john: quite a few comments
13:33:06 [josema]
... document is growing
13:33:22 [Zakim]
+ +34.98.439.aaii
13:33:24 [josema]
... we're starting to include the howtos
13:33:31 [josema]
zakim, aaii is ocr
13:33:31 [Zakim]
+ocr; got it
13:33:45 [josema]
... I think it should be a high level, short and crisp
13:33:46 [AdamHarvey]
+1 to john's point about this being high-level doc
13:34:04 [josema]
... if we need more accuracy, we should put that in other docs
13:34:20 [josema]
... mention technologies, for example
13:34:46 [josema]
... "we're all learning" section for me means
13:34:56 [josema]
... govs publishing data over the last 10 years
13:35:04 [josema]
... but not using LOD
13:35:19 [josema]
... message is tech is mature, gov knowlegde of it is not
13:35:43 [josema]
... also this IG is the venue to discuss about this
13:36:02 [josema]
... maybe we need a clearer statement about it
13:36:13 [josema]
... mature but not operational in gov space yet
13:36:20 [AdamHarvey]
13:36:32 [josema]
... show we as group are here to help move it forward
13:36:47 [josema]
... in general, for me is a bit too techie and deep
13:36:50 [josema]
ack ad
13:36:53 [josema]
ac jo
13:36:54 [johnlsheridan]
ack adam
13:36:57 [johnlsheridan]
13:37:01 [josema]
ack jo
13:37:07 [AdamHarvey]
13:37:08 [josema]
adam: agree with john
13:37:14 [josema]
... maybe too deep
13:37:31 [josema]
... [adam refers to message above]
13:38:00 [josema]
[scribe missed last comment]
13:38:31 [josema]
daniel: part of putting doc out is to have the info there and have the ETF working on it in the sense you mentioned
13:38:43 [johnlsheridan]
but this isn't a linked data "how to" right?
13:39:04 [AdamHarvey]
I said I feel that the tone of the document should be more inclusive to people who are hesitant about what it takes to start using OGD.
13:39:11 [josema]
... "we're all learning" should probably say this is just a beginning doc and if you want to learn more
13:39:25 [josema]
... and move forward, come join us, lot more to do together
13:39:37 [johnlsheridan]
13:40:02 [josema]
... first section could be changed to set the ground saying this are some easy steps you can try
13:40:10 [josema]
... as a start
13:40:35 [josema]
I agree with simplifying and adam's and john's comments
13:40:49 [josema]
john: we should not produce a detailed howto with this one
13:41:20 [josema]
... this is only a beginning and here's our group should be the summary
13:41:29 [josema]
daniel: should I take out all the technical info?
13:41:43 [josema]
john: not exactly, we need to achieve a balance
13:42:10 [josema]
... we maybe just want to say: if you want to do X, go see this (document)
13:42:20 [josema]
... but probably not deeper than that
13:43:05 [josema]
owen: we might be talking about a distinction between text and graphical version
13:43:29 [josema]
... latter could just include high level summary, not technical details, deferred for former
13:44:12 [josema]
daniel: I thought that was the original idea
13:44:24 [josema]
... adam has been doing a good job with graphics in that sense
13:45:26 [josema]
adam: owen's point is what I had in mind with the recipe graphic
13:45:36 [josema]
... linking to other docs with technical details
13:46:13 [josema]
daniel: someone could just print the recipe and put it up
13:46:28 [josema]
... and have it as a primer for the process and could find more details quickly
13:47:12 [josema]
john: do you think a simplified version of docs or the graphics are good to help*
13:47:28 [josema]
... people to make a decision?
13:47:34 [josema]
scribe: josema
13:48:05 [josema]
daniel: good question
13:48:17 [johnlsheridan]
13:48:31 [josema]
... it should help people wanting to persuade others of the benefits
13:48:44 [johnlsheridan]
13:48:46 [josema]
... techies would also find their way by following the pointers
13:48:52 [johnlsheridan]
ack jo
13:49:27 [josema]
john: are we conveying the benefits well enough in the recipe?
13:49:52 [josema]
daniel: I think the addition of the use case could help
13:50:21 [johnlsheridan]
13:50:28 [josema]
... thinking of having 3-4 slides like that, point to big wins ???
13:50:29 [johnlsheridan]
ack jo
13:51:17 [josema]
john: when you talk to non-data people, one of the interesting things in LD for them
13:51:41 [josema]
... (e.g. discussion with UK head of statistics)
13:52:04 [josema]
... they publish schools data, someone asks for info on schools on a given area
13:52:29 [josema]
... they need to make an application and aggregate by hand
13:52:39 [josema]
... LD simplifies this a lot
13:53:20 [josema]
... there are problems LD solves that are not very difficult but really need to be solved
13:53:32 [josema]
... and this makes those people's lives easier
13:53:36 [josema]
daniel: ???
13:53:51 [josema]
john: this is exactly what we are doing
13:53:52 [Owen]
Here's an example of the point that John just made:
13:53:57 [josema]
daniel: can we use it as example?
13:53:57 [Vagner]
Vagner has joined #egov
13:54:05 [josema]
john: little bit early
13:54:11 [josema]
... but we could generalize
13:54:24 [josema]
daniel: let's talk offline
13:54:29 [josema]
john: next steps with memo?
13:54:37 [Daniel_Bennett]
13:54:52 [josema]
... good conversation so far, reposition lessons learned, see what ETF comes out with
13:54:59 [josema]
... how long will ETF need?
13:55:10 [josema]
rachel: the more time, the better
13:55:30 [josema]
daniel: reminder from beginning of call
13:55:53 [josema]
... all proposed changes/comments should be sent to me/adam by next Wed
13:56:10 [josema]
... we'll pull out geeky parts as much as possible from middle of doc
13:56:19 [josema]
... circulate more graphics based on input
13:56:31 [josema]
... circulate something else between Wed/Thu next week
13:56:39 [josema]
... use tracker to track changes/comments
13:56:42 [josema]
... then send to ETF
13:57:24 [AdamHarvey]
I can make textual changes to the graphics quite quickly if necessary.
13:57:28 [josema]
... that would be the 28th, and we'll still have two weeks
13:57:58 [josema]
13:58:04 [AdamHarvey]
Yeah I'll edit as I go.
13:58:19 [josema]
rachel: good enough, Adam also on ETF, shouldn't take much
13:59:01 [josema]
daniel: additions... benefits section, anything else?
13:59:13 [josema]
john: we need to add stuff
13:59:26 [josema]
... e.g. showcasing what people can do with your data
13:59:49 [josema]
... tutorial-like thing giving 1-2 short examples
13:59:53 [AdamHarvey]
The showcase could be on the eGov IG site, once we get it running
13:59:59 [josema]
... not deep, just two sentences
14:00:21 [josema]
daniel: eGov Web site, separate thing, where we plan to add showcase, too
14:00:43 [Zakim]
14:01:44 [josema]
john: it's not a marketing/PR doc but should be simplified
14:02:14 [josema]
... and clarified in some parts, saying we are here to help people expose but also people who wants to consume
14:02:21 [josema]
zakim, ??P20 is Vagner
14:02:23 [Zakim]
+Vagner; got it
14:02:45 [josema]
sylvia: we should not mislead govs, exposing data different from being transparent
14:02:55 [josema]
... this bit should be also clarified
14:02:59 [josema]
john: great point
14:03:32 [josema]
... it's important to publish the raw data so others can come up with the right visualization
14:03:43 [josema]
... that put the transparency up there
14:04:11 [AdamHarvey]
+1 to John and Sylvia - Perhaps we could offer a w3c seal of approval (sort of like the validator) to govs who do a good job with the transparency?
14:04:15 [josema]
sylvia: agree, we should graphics high level
14:04:20 [johnlsheridan]
14:04:38 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:04:38 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Charter and Plan" taken up [from josema]
14:04:40 [johnlsheridan]
next agendum
14:04:50 [josema]
14:05:52 [josema]
14:06:02 [josema]
14:06:30 [josema]
14:10:36 [johnlsheridan]
next agendum
14:11:02 [josema]
[jose reviews process again, expects process to be finished by end Sept/mid Oct if everything goes well]
14:11:07 [josema]
14:11:36 [Daniel_Bennett]
fyi: I am planning on attending
14:11:47 [josema]
john: talking to people at HP Labs (e.g. Stuart Williams, former TAG co-Chair), Jenni Tennison
14:12:01 [josema]
... various problems we are finding along the way
14:12:25 [josema]
... the are many issues LOD community doesn't need to care but we do
14:12:42 [josema]
... e.g. how to play and experiment and develop the real thing at same time?
14:12:47 [josema]
... how to build capabilities?
14:12:59 [josema]
... how to do stuff fast enough to build on the momentum?
14:13:16 [josema]
... main message: we are doing it, learning heaps and heaps
14:13:49 [Daniel_Bennett]
John: "we are learning"
14:13:49 [josema]
... applying some of LD stuff to government is not easy, new and specific issues come up often
14:14:18 [josema]
... we expect to release something sustantive by end of Sept?
14:14:42 [josema]
dainel: great to hear, but you used the phrase "we're learning", uh?
14:14:48 [josema]
14:14:53 [josema]
john: tru, we're learning
14:15:00 [josema]
14:15:16 [josema]
daniel: W3C XBRL workshop hosted by FDIC
14:15:45 [josema]
14:16:11 [josema]
... 5-6 Oct 2009, I expect to present something there
14:16:30 [josema]
john: SW meetup in London
14:16:44 [josema]
... Linked Government Data will be high on agenda
14:16:52 [josema]
... 60-70 people signed up already
14:18:04 [josema]
14:18:11 [josema]
14:18:23 [josema]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:18:23 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "W3C Plenary" taken up [from josema]
14:18:46 [johnlsheridan]
14:18:55 [johnlsheridan]
92 people coming! wow
14:19:10 [josema]
14:19:22 [josema]
14:20:40 [Owen]
Agenda for 2009:
14:21:49 [josema]
14:23:54 [josema]
14:25:58 [Owen]
I was able to access the latter site and it does indicate which meetings are open and which the user plans to attend.
14:27:05 [josema]
[jose goes through summary of what TPACs are and how to participate]
14:27:11 [josema]
john: anything else to add?
14:27:15 [josema]
[nothing heard]
14:27:20 [josema]
14:27:32 [AdamHarvey]
hasta luego!
14:27:33 [Zakim]
14:27:35 [Zakim]
14:27:36 [Zakim]
14:27:36 [Zakim]
14:27:38 [Zakim]
14:27:39 [Zakim]
14:27:41 [Zakim]
14:27:48 [Zakim]
14:28:29 [Zakim]
14:30:49 [Zakim]
14:35:18 [josema]
zakim, list attendees
14:35:18 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.216.443.aaaa, AdamHarvey, +1.202.449.aabb, +1.310.420.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, +1.509.464.aaff,
14:35:21 [Zakim]
... Brand, Rachel, Sylvia, owen, +1.202.236.aagg, john, +49.842.9.aahh, George?, +34.98.439.aaii, ocr, Vagner
14:35:35 [josema]
rrsagent, draf minutes
14:35:35 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draf minutes', josema. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:35:38 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:35:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
14:35:50 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Brand, in T&S_EGOV()9:00AM
14:35:51 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:35:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.216.443.aaaa, AdamHarvey, +1.202.449.aabb, +1.310.420.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, +1.509.464.aaff, Brand, Rachel, Sylvia,
14:35:55 [Zakim]
... owen, +1.202.236.aagg, john, +49.842.9.aahh, George?, +34.98.439.aaii, ocr, Vagner
14:36:13 [josema]
15:54:12 [josema]
rrsagent, bye
15:54:12 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items