12:53:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:53:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-egov-irc
12:53:39 <josema> zakim, this will be egov
12:53:39 <Zakim> ok, josema; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
12:53:49 <josema> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Aug/0003
12:56:12 <AdamHarvey> buenos dias jose
12:56:14 <josema> agenda+ Agenda adjustments and next meetings
12:56:17 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
12:56:29 <josema> agenda+ Data.gov.* memo
12:56:37 <josema> agenda+ Charter and Plan
12:56:50 <josema> agenda+ What's going on
12:57:41 <josema> agenda?
12:58:05 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
12:58:08 <josema> trackbot, start telcon
12:58:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:12 <Zakim> + +1.216.443.aaaa
12:58:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:58:13 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:13 <trackbot> Date: 19 August 2009
12:58:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
12:58:25 <AdamHarvey> zakim, I am aaaa
12:58:26 <Zakim> +AdamHarvey; got it
12:59:01 <josema> zakim, who's here?
12:59:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdamHarvey
12:59:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
12:59:14 <josema> regrets: kevin
12:59:20 <josema> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Aug/0003
12:59:29 <Zakim> + +1.202.449.aabb
12:59:39 <Daniel_Bennett> aabb is Daniel Bennett
12:59:54 <Zakim> + +1.310.420.aacc
13:00:03 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aadd
13:00:07 <josema> zakim, aabb is Daniel_Bennett
13:00:08 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett; got it
13:00:15 <Zakim> +Josema
13:00:24 <Zakim> - +1.509.464.aadd
13:00:42 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #egov
13:00:45 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:00:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdamHarvey, Daniel_Bennett, +1.310.420.aacc, Josema
13:00:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
13:00:48 <Zakim> + +1.202.564.aaee
13:01:01 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aaff
13:01:04 <josema> zakim, aaee is Brand
13:01:07 <Zakim> +Brand; got it
13:01:19 <josema> zakim, aaff is Rachel
13:01:19 <Zakim> +Rachel; got it
13:01:54 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:01:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdamHarvey, Daniel_Bennett, +1.310.420.aacc, Josema, Brand, Rachel
13:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
13:03:37 <josema> zakim, aacc is Sylvia
13:03:37 <Zakim> +Sylvia; got it
13:04:29 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:04:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdamHarvey, Daniel_Bennett, Sylvia, Josema, Brand, Rachel
13:04:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, AdamHarvey, trackbot
13:06:23 <josema> chair: josema
13:06:31 <josema> scribe: josema
13:06:35 <Zakim> +??P3
13:06:49 <josema> zakim, ??P3 is owen
13:06:49 <Zakim> +owen; got it
13:06:53 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum
13:06:53 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Agenda adjustments and next meetings" taken up [from josema]
13:08:12 <josema> next meeting: 2 Sept, 1300Z
13:08:18 <josema> next scribe: Daniel
13:08:45 <josema> josema: any additions?
13:08:53 <josema> daniel: plenary
13:09:01 <josema> agenda+ W3C Plenary
13:09:08 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum
13:09:10 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Data.gov.* memo" taken up [from josema]
13:09:19 <Daniel_Bennett> http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfxgcdfc_2494cw4hg8
13:09:33 <Owen> Owen has joined #egov
13:09:55 <josema> daniel: difficult to edit the wiki, copied it to Google Docs (see pointer above)
13:10:35 <josema> ... Adam + me made edits for language, additions
13:10:50 <josema> ... sent to group recently as starting point for discussion
13:11:02 <josema> ... we'll use tracker to track comments, etc.
13:11:15 <josema> ... we have one week to discuss before sending out to ETF
13:11:37 <josema> ... expecting to present it at Gov 2.0 Summit
13:11:42 <johnlsheridan> johnlsheridan has joined #egov
13:12:15 <josema> ... many high level eGov folks attending
13:12:21 <josema> ... good opportunity
13:12:33 <AdamHarvey> Lots of echo on the call
13:12:40 <Zakim> + +1.202.236.aagg
13:12:41 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
13:12:48 <Zakim> +john
13:12:51 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 8 (19%), Daniel_Bennett (97%), +1.202.236.aagg (6%)
13:13:03 <josema> zakim, who is 8?
13:13:03 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, josema.
13:13:08 <johnlsheridan> agenda?
13:13:34 <josema> ... expecting to make some PR noise
13:13:34 <johnlsheridan> sorry I'm late everyone
13:13:48 <josema> john, can you chair from now on? (I'm scribing)
13:13:52 <johnlsheridan> sure
13:13:55 <josema> thx
13:13:59 <josema> chair: john
13:13:59 <johnlsheridan> q?
13:15:00 <josema> ... I consider the editor's copy at google to be "outline-complete"
13:15:06 <josema> ... but not "content-complete" yet
13:15:34 <Daniel_Bennett> http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfxgcdfc_2494cw4hg8
13:16:11 <josema> [daniel reads aloud the first paragraph]
13:16:27 <Zakim> -Josema
13:16:58 <Zakim> + +49.842.9.aahh
13:17:04 <josema> zakim, aahh is me
13:17:04 <Zakim> +josema; got it
13:18:22 <josema> [daniel goes through document]
13:19:41 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
13:19:52 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Daniel_Bennett (80%)
13:23:08 <johnlsheridan> q?
13:23:35 <josema> john: comments?
13:24:05 <josema> owen: glad to know about target audience being Gov 2.0 Summit attendants
13:24:20 <josema> ... graphics can take a lot of time to produce and review
13:24:45 <josema> ... based on previous experience, so glad to know we have a short time deadline
13:25:21 <josema> ... important to have high quality content
13:25:42 <josema> zakim, aagg is probably George
13:25:42 <Zakim> +George?; got it
13:26:10 <josema> george: I appreciate the effort
13:26:39 <josema> ... for those that are trying this "data transparency" world we probably don't want
13:26:50 <josema> ... to give the impression this is experimental ???
13:27:05 <josema> ... need to work on solid ground ???
13:27:42 <josema> ... how people expect readers will digest this ???
13:28:08 <josema> ... in general looks really great
13:28:27 <josema> daniel: adam and I talked about doing a potential use case
13:28:46 <josema> ... e.g. a national service that could out up useful data up there
13:29:01 <josema> ... and how people could consume it and visualize it
13:29:13 <josema> ... e.g. graphs of temperatures over a year
13:29:29 <josema> george: sounds great, good approach
13:29:43 <josema> ... there's also some @@ going on
13:30:12 <josema> ... I was trying to differentiate between APIs and a little more exploration on what Linked Data actually means
13:30:22 <josema> ... what's a triple store kind of thing ???
13:30:24 <johnlsheridan> q+
13:30:31 <AdamHarvey> I think George's points will be fleshed out by the small issues papers in the future
13:30:57 <josema> daniel: [scribe missed]
13:31:12 <josema> george: john, you are using stuff like Talis, right?
13:31:28 <josema> john: yeah, and also put together and OSS stack for Linked Data
13:31:35 <ocr> ocr has joined #egov
13:31:40 <josema> ... we cannot use just one company's approach
13:31:51 <josema> ... need to have something to give to agencies
13:32:18 <josema> george: Talis is use a good example of where and how to put stuff easily
13:32:25 <josema> ... as an example
13:32:51 <josema> ... this is not so experimental, not rocket science either
13:32:59 <josema> john: quite a few comments
13:33:06 <josema> ... document is growing
13:33:22 <Zakim> + +34.98.439.aaii
13:33:24 <josema> ... we're starting to include the howtos
13:33:31 <josema> zakim, aaii is ocr
13:33:31 <Zakim> +ocr; got it
13:33:45 <josema> ... I think it should be a high level, short and crisp
13:33:46 <AdamHarvey> +1 to john's point about this being high-level doc
13:34:04 <josema> ... if we need more accuracy, we should put that in other docs
13:34:20 <josema> ... mention technologies, for example
13:34:46 <josema> ... "we're all learning" section for me means
13:34:56 <josema> ... govs publishing data over the last 10 years
13:35:04 <josema> ... but not using LOD
13:35:19 <josema> ... message is tech is mature, gov knowlegde of it is not
13:35:43 <josema> ... also this IG is the venue to discuss about this
13:36:02 <josema> ... maybe we need a clearer statement about it
13:36:13 <josema> ... mature but not operational in gov space yet
13:36:20 <AdamHarvey> q+
13:36:32 <josema> ... show we as group are here to help move it forward
13:36:47 <josema> ... in general, for me is a bit too techie and deep
13:36:50 <josema> ack ad
13:36:53 <josema> ac jo
13:36:54 <johnlsheridan> ack adam
13:36:57 <johnlsheridan> q?
13:37:01 <josema> ack jo
13:37:07 <AdamHarvey> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Aug/0012.html
13:37:08 <josema> adam: agree with john
13:37:14 <josema> ... maybe too deep
13:37:31 <josema> ... [adam refers to message above]
13:38:00 <josema> [scribe missed last comment]
13:38:31 <josema> daniel: part of putting doc out is to have the info there and have the ETF working on it in the sense you mentioned
13:38:43 <johnlsheridan> but this isn't a linked data "how to" right?
13:39:04 <AdamHarvey> I said I feel that the tone of the document should be more inclusive to people who are hesitant about what it takes to start using OGD.
13:39:11 <josema> ... "we're all learning" should probably say this is just a beginning doc and if you want to learn more
13:39:25 <josema> ... and move forward, come join us, lot more to do together
13:39:37 <johnlsheridan> +1
13:40:02 <josema> ... first section could be changed to set the ground saying this are some easy steps you can try
13:40:10 <josema> ... as a start
13:40:35 <josema> I agree with simplifying and adam's and john's comments
13:40:49 <josema> john: we should not produce a detailed howto with this one
13:41:20 <josema> ... this is only a beginning and here's our group should be the summary
13:41:29 <josema> daniel: should I take out all the technical info?
13:41:43 <josema> john: not exactly, we need to achieve a balance
13:42:10 <josema> ... we maybe just want to say: if you want to do X, go see this (document)
13:42:20 <josema> ... but probably not deeper than that
13:43:05 <josema> owen: we might be talking about a distinction between text and graphical version
13:43:29 <josema> ... latter could just include high level summary, not technical details, deferred for former
13:44:12 <josema> daniel: I thought that was the original idea
13:44:24 <josema> ... adam has been doing a good job with graphics in that sense
13:45:26 <josema> adam: owen's point is what I had in mind with the recipe graphic
13:45:36 <josema> ... linking to other docs with technical details
13:46:13 <josema> daniel: someone could just print the recipe and put it up
13:46:28 <josema> ... and have it as a primer for the process and could find more details quickly
13:47:12 <josema> john: do you think a simplified version of docs or the graphics are good to help data.gov.*
13:47:28 <josema> ... people to make a decision?
13:47:34 <josema> scribe: josema
13:48:05 <josema> daniel: good question
13:48:17 <johnlsheridan> q?
13:48:31 <josema> ... it should help people wanting to persuade others of the benefits
13:48:44 <johnlsheridan> q+
13:48:46 <josema> ... techies would also find their way by following the pointers
13:48:52 <johnlsheridan> ack jo
13:49:27 <josema> john: are we conveying the benefits well enough in the recipe?
13:49:52 <josema> daniel: I think the addition of the use case could help
13:50:21 <johnlsheridan> q+
13:50:28 <josema> ... thinking of having 3-4 slides like that, point to big wins ???
13:50:29 <johnlsheridan> ack jo
13:51:17 <josema> john: when you talk to non-data people, one of the interesting things in LD for them
13:51:41 <josema> ... (e.g. discussion with UK head of statistics)
13:52:04 <josema> ... they publish schools data, someone asks for info on schools on a given area
13:52:29 <josema> ... they need to make an application and aggregate by hand
13:52:39 <josema> ... LD simplifies this a lot
13:53:20 <josema> ... there are problems LD solves that are not very difficult but really need to be solved
13:53:32 <josema> ... and this makes those people's lives easier
13:53:36 <josema> daniel: ???
13:53:51 <josema> john: this is exactly what we are doing
13:53:52 <Owen> Here's an example of the point that John just made: http://report.nih.gov/award/trends/state_congressional/stateoverview.cfm
13:53:57 <josema> daniel: can we use it as example?
13:53:57 <Vagner> Vagner has joined #egov
13:54:05 <josema> john: little bit early
13:54:11 <josema> ... but we could generalize
13:54:24 <josema> daniel: let's talk offline
13:54:29 <josema> john: next steps with memo?
13:54:37 <Daniel_Bennett> fyi http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/XQuery/UK_shipping_forecast
13:54:52 <josema> ... good conversation so far, reposition lessons learned, see what ETF comes out with
13:54:59 <josema> ... how long will ETF need?
13:55:10 <josema> rachel: the more time, the better
13:55:30 <josema> daniel: reminder from beginning of call
13:55:53 <josema> ... all proposed changes/comments should be sent to me/adam by next Wed
13:56:10 <josema> ... we'll pull out geeky parts as much as possible from middle of doc
13:56:19 <josema> ... circulate more graphics based on input
13:56:31 <josema> ... circulate something else between Wed/Thu next week
13:56:39 <josema> ... use tracker to track changes/comments
13:56:42 <josema> ... then send to ETF
13:57:24 <AdamHarvey> I can make textual changes to the graphics quite quickly if necessary.
13:57:28 <josema> ... that would be the 28th, and we'll still have two weeks
13:57:58 <josema> s/28th/27th
13:58:04 <AdamHarvey> Yeah I'll edit as I go.
13:58:19 <josema> rachel: good enough, Adam also on ETF, shouldn't take much
13:59:01 <josema> daniel: additions... benefits section, anything else?
13:59:13 <josema> john: we need to add stuff
13:59:26 <josema> ... e.g. showcasing what people can do with your data
13:59:49 <josema> ... tutorial-like thing giving 1-2 short examples
13:59:53 <AdamHarvey> The showcase could be on the eGov IG site, once we get it running
13:59:59 <josema> ... not deep, just two sentences
14:00:21 <josema> daniel: eGov Web site, separate thing, where we plan to add showcase, too
14:00:43 <Zakim> +??P20
14:01:44 <josema> john: it's not a marketing/PR doc but should be simplified
14:02:14 <josema> ... and clarified in some parts, saying we are here to help people expose but also people who wants to consume
14:02:21 <josema> zakim, ??P20 is Vagner
14:02:23 <Zakim> +Vagner; got it
14:02:45 <josema> sylvia: we should not mislead govs, exposing data different from being transparent
14:02:55 <josema> ... this bit should be also clarified
14:02:59 <josema> john: great point
14:03:32 <josema> ... it's important to publish the raw data so others can come up with the right visualization
14:03:43 <josema> ... that put the transparency up there
14:04:11 <AdamHarvey> +1 to John and Sylvia - Perhaps we could offer a w3c seal of approval (sort of like the validator) to govs who do a good job with the transparency?
14:04:15 <josema> sylvia: agree, we should graphics high level
14:04:20 <johnlsheridan> agenda?
14:04:38 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum
14:04:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Charter and Plan" taken up [from josema]
14:04:40 <johnlsheridan> next agendum
14:04:50 <josema> agenda?
14:05:52 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open
14:06:02 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/81
14:06:30 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/eGov/ig-charter
14:10:36 <johnlsheridan> next agendum
14:11:02 <josema> [jose reviews process again, expects process to be finished by end Sept/mid Oct if everything goes well]
14:11:07 <josema> [UK]
14:11:36 <Daniel_Bennett> fyi: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/cfp.html   I am planning on attending
14:11:47 <josema> john: talking to people at HP Labs (e.g. Stuart Williams, former TAG co-Chair), Jenni Tennison
14:12:01 <josema> ... various problems we are finding along the way
14:12:25 <josema> ... the are many issues LOD community doesn't need to care but we do
14:12:42 <josema> ... e.g. how to play and experiment and develop the real thing at same time?
14:12:47 <josema> ... how to build capabilities?
14:12:59 <josema> ... how to do stuff fast enough to build on the momentum?
14:13:16 <josema> ... main message: we are doing it, learning heaps and heaps
14:13:49 <Daniel_Bennett> John: "we are learning"
14:13:49 <josema> ... applying some of LD stuff to government is not easy, new and specific issues come up often
14:14:18 <josema> ... we expect to release something sustantive by end of Sept? 
14:14:42 <josema> dainel: great to hear, but you used the phrase "we're learning", uh?
14:14:48 <josema> s/dainel/daniel
14:14:53 <josema> john: tru, we're learning
14:15:00 <josema> [W3C XBRL]
14:15:16 <josema> daniel: W3C XBRL workshop hosted by FDIC
14:15:45 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/cfp
14:16:11 <josema> ... 5-6 Oct 2009, I expect to present something there
14:16:30 <josema> john: SW meetup in London
14:16:44 <josema> ... Linked Government Data will be high on agenda
14:16:52 <josema> ... 60-70 people signed up already
14:18:04 <josema> http://www.meetup.com/LondonSWGroup/
14:18:11 <josema> agenda?
14:18:23 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum
14:18:23 <Zakim> agendum 5. "W3C Plenary" taken up [from josema]
14:18:46 <johnlsheridan> http://www.meetup.com/Web-Of-Data/calendar/11056905/
14:18:55 <johnlsheridan> 92 people coming! wow
14:19:10 <josema> F2F1: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/TPAC2008
14:19:22 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/
14:20:40 <Owen> Agenda for 2009: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/
14:21:49 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/#Participation1
14:23:54 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC09/
14:25:58 <Owen> I was able to access the latter site and it does indicate which meetings are open and which the user plans to attend.
14:27:05 <josema> [jose goes through summary of what TPACs are and how to participate]
14:27:11 <josema> john: anything else to add?
14:27:15 <josema> [nothing heard]
14:27:20 <josema> [ADJOURNED]
14:27:32 <AdamHarvey> hasta luego!
14:27:33 <Zakim> -George?
14:27:35 <Zakim> -Sylvia
14:27:36 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett
14:27:36 <Zakim> -Rachel
14:27:38 <Zakim> -john
14:27:39 <Zakim> -AdamHarvey
14:27:41 <Zakim> -owen
14:27:48 <Zakim> -josema
14:28:29 <Zakim> -ocr
14:30:49 <Zakim> -Vagner
14:35:18 <josema> zakim, list attendees
14:35:18 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.216.443.aaaa, AdamHarvey, +1.202.449.aabb, +1.310.420.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, +1.509.464.aaff,
14:35:21 <Zakim> ... Brand, Rachel, Sylvia, owen, +1.202.236.aagg, john, +49.842.9.aahh, George?, +34.98.439.aaii, ocr, Vagner
14:35:35 <josema> rrsagent, draf minutes
14:35:35 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draf minutes', josema.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:35:38 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:35:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-egov-minutes.html josema
14:35:50 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Brand, in T&S_EGOV()9:00AM
14:35:51 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:35:52 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.216.443.aaaa, AdamHarvey, +1.202.449.aabb, +1.310.420.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, +1.509.464.aaff, Brand, Rachel, Sylvia,
14:35:55 <Zakim> ... owen, +1.202.236.aagg, john, +49.842.9.aahh, George?, +34.98.439.aaii, ocr, Vagner
14:36:13 <josema> agenda?
15:54:12 <josema> rrsagent, bye
15:54:12 <RRSAgent> I see no action items