IRC log of au on 2009-08-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:52:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:52:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/17-au-irc
19:52:43 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:52:43 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 52 minutes ago
19:52:51 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:54:30 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0026.html
19:54:46 [Jan]
Chair: Jan Richards
19:55:11 [Jan]
Regrets: Jutta T., Andrew R., Tim B.
19:56:49 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
19:56:56 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
19:56:56 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
19:57:04 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
19:57:11 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
19:59:32 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
19:59:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.208.123.aaaa
20:00:11 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
20:01:54 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:02:17 [Jan]
zakim, IPcaller is really Jan
20:02:17 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:03:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.582.aabb
20:03:34 [Jan]
zakim, aabb is really SueAnnN
20:03:34 [Zakim]
+SueAnnN; got it
20:05:24 [jeanne]
scribe: jeanne
20:05:59 [jeanne]
topic: review of editors' draft
20:06:16 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:06:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/17-au-minutes.html jeanne
20:07:23 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make logs public
20:07:35 [jeanne]
meeting: AUWG Teleconference
20:07:40 [jeanne]
chair: Jan
20:08:03 [jeanne]
present+ AnnM, Jan, Jeanne, SueAnnN
20:08:24 [jeanne]
regrets+ Andrew
20:08:35 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:08:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/17-au-minutes.html jeanne
20:09:30 [jeanne]
Action: JS to review A1 for Techniques
20:09:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-176 - Review A1 for Techniques [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-08-24].
20:11:23 [jeanne]
JR: August 31 is UK bank holiday, but the following week is Labor Day, and we don't want to go so long without a meeting, so is it ok if we meet on the 31st?
20:11:33 [jeanne]
AM: Ok with me.
20:12:03 [jeanne]
action: AM will review section A2 for Techniques.
20:12:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-177 - Will review section A2 for Techniques. [on Ann McMeekin - due 2009-08-24].
20:12:24 [jeanne]
AM: I will not be available for the next meeting, but will post notes to the email list.
20:13:43 [jeanne]
action: SN to section review A.3.1-3 for Techniques
20:13:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-178 - Section review A.3.1-3 for Techniques [on Sueann Nichols - due 2009-08-24].
20:15:02 [jeanne]
action: GP to review section A.3.4-7 for Techniques (tentative assignment)
20:15:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-179 - Review section A.3.4-7 for Techniques (tentative assignment) [on Greg Pisocky - due 2009-08-24].
20:15:51 [jeanne]
action: TB to review section A.4 for Techniques (tentative assignment)
20:15:51 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - TB
20:15:58 [Zakim]
- +1.208.123.aaaa
20:16:18 [jeanne]
action: Tim to review section A.4 for Techniques (tentative assignment)
20:16:18 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Tim
20:16:44 [jeanne]
action: FB to review section A.4 for Techniques (tentative assignment)
20:16:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-180 - Review section A.4 for Techniques (tentative assignment) [on Frederick Boland - due 2009-08-24].
20:17:11 [jeanne]
action: AR to to review section B.1 for Techniques (tentative assignment)
20:17:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-181 - To review section B.1 for Techniques (tentative assignment) [on Andrew Ronksley - due 2009-08-24].
20:19:08 [Zakim]
+AnnM
20:19:28 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
20:20:17 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0024.html
20:20:24 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0025.html
20:20:30 [jeanne]
topic: HTML5
20:22:02 [jeanne]
JR: HTML5 is an important specification to W3C and to Authoring tools. We have been asked by WAI CG to review the spec for this Wednesday.
20:24:44 [jeanne]
JR reviews the email for discussion.
20:28:11 [Jan]
4.8.2.1.13 Guidance for markup generators
20:28:13 [Jan]
Markup generators (such as WYSIWYG authoring tools) should, wherever possible, obtain alternative text from their users. However, it is recognized that in many cases, this will not be possible.
20:28:15 [Jan]
For images that are the sole contents of links, markup generators should examine the link target to determine the title of the target, or the URL of the target, and use information obtained in this manner as the alternative text.
20:28:16 [Jan]
As a last resort, implementors should either set the alt attribute to the empty string, under the assumption that the image is a purely decorative image that doesn't add any information but is still specific to the surrounding content, or omit the alt attribute altogether, under the assumption that the image is a key part of the content.
20:28:18 [Jan]
Markup generators should generally avoid using the image's own file name as the alternative text.
20:29:38 [Jan]
Guideline B.2.4 Assist authors with managing alternative content for non-text content.
20:29:48 [Jan]
B.2.4.1 Editable: Authors are able to modify alternative content for non-text content. This includes types of alternative content that may not typically be displayed on screen by user agents. (Level A)
20:29:50 [Jan]
B.2.4.2 Automated suggestions: During the authoring session, the authoring tool can automatically suggest alternative content for non-text content only under the following conditions: (Level A)
20:29:51 [Jan]
* (a) Author control: authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the suggested alternative content prior to insertion; and
20:29:53 [Jan]
* (b) Relevant sources: the suggested alternative content is only derived from sources designed to fulfill the same purpose (e.g., suggesting the value of an image's "description" metadata field as a long description).
20:29:54 [Jan]
B.2.4.3 Let user agents repair: After the end of an authoring session, the authoring tool does not attempt to repair alternative content for non-text content using text values that is equally available to user agents (e.g., the filename is not used). (Level A)
20:29:56 [Jan]
B.2.4.4 Save for Reuse: Authors have the option of having any recognized plain text alternative content that they enter (e.g., short text labels, long descriptions) stored for future reuse. (Level AA)
20:31:51 [jeanne]
JR: Section B.2.4.4 will be flagged as a section of concern to AUWG.
20:34:06 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2009/ED-ATAG20-TECHS-20090814/#principle-support-author
20:34:15 [Jan]
Topic: INtents in B.2.4
20:34:41 [Jan]
B.2.4.1 Editable: Authors are able to modify alternative content for non-text content. This includes types of alternative content that may not typically be displayed on screen by user agents. (Level A)
20:34:59 [Jan]
The intent of this Success Criterion is to ensure that authors can add alternative content for non-text objects and modify that alternative text in the future. If the type of alternative content (e.g., alternative text) is not displayed by a WYSIWYG editing view, another mechanism is provided for modifying that content.
20:35:14 [Sueann]
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20:37:38 [Jan]
JS: INclude more generic things about applications, incl canvas
20:39:41 [Jan]
JS: Maybe be more clear that we mean built in and linked alternatives as appropriate
20:40:11 [Jan]
B.2.4.2 Automated suggestions: During the authoring session, the authoring tool can automatically suggest alternative content for non-text content only under the following conditions: (Level A)
20:40:13 [Jan]
* (a) Author control: authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the suggested alternative content prior to insertion; and
20:40:15 [Jan]
* (b) Relevant sources: the suggested alternative content is only derived from sources designed to fulfill the same purpose (e.g., suggesting the value of an image's "description" metadata field as a long description).
20:40:18 [Jan]
The intent of this Success Criterion is to prevent the production of alternative content that is not useful to an end user because it has not been approved by an author and/or it is derived from unreliable sources. Authors who are unfamiliar with accessibility may approve alternative content suggestions without understanding the problems these can cause for end users.
20:43:38 [Jan]
JR: More relevant sources examples?
20:43:53 [Jan]
AM: That could help guide people in the right direction
20:44:05 [Jan]
JR: A few more dood examples and a few more bad
20:45:16 [Zakim]
-AnnM
20:45:39 [Jan]
Action: JR to incorporate these B.2.4 ideas into new tech wording proposal
20:45:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-182 - Incorporate these B.2.4 ideas into new tech wording proposal [on Jan Richards - due 2009-08-24].
20:45:48 [Jan]
B.2.4.3 Let user agents repair: After the end of an authoring session, the authoring tool does not attempt to repair alternative content for non-text content using text values that is equally available to user agents (e.g., the filename is not used). (Level A)
20:46:00 [Jan]
The intent of this Success Criterion is to ensure that if the authoring tool does attempt to automatically repair missing alternative content, the repair does not imply that the alternative content has been provided by or approved by the author. In some cases, the authoring tool will have text information, such as contextual information (e.g., the image is the author's profile picture) that...
20:46:02 [Jan]
...the user agent does not have equal access to, in which case, the repair can be made.
20:46:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.208.123.aacc
20:46:39 [Jan]
Action JR: fix is->are in B.2.4.3
20:46:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-183 - Fix is->are in B.2.4.3 [on Jan Richards - due 2009-08-24].
20:53:37 [Jan]
JS: Because of rapidly advancing technology in the area of image porocessing we're not limiting that input to alt text
20:54:06 [Jan]
JR: But if the format has a way to label that as autogenerated then that should be used
20:56:33 [Jan]
JR: Maybe we should also say we intend the repair to be only in place until the next author session opens
20:58:09 [Jan]
JR: Should we acknowledge that we know this is last gasp
20:58:24 [Jan]
AM: Yes until the author comes back and gets a chance to amend
20:58:34 [Jan]
B.2.4.4 Save for Reuse: Authors have the option of having any recognized plain text alternative content that they enter (e.g., short text labels, long descriptions) stored for future reuse. (Level AA)
20:58:39 [Jan]
The intent of this Success Criterion is to ensure that when the author has spent effort providing alternative content, this content is retained by the authoring tool in a form that allows it be easily reused
21:00:22 [Zakim]
-SueAnnN
21:00:23 [Zakim]
-Jan
21:00:24 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
21:00:32 [Zakim]
- +1.208.123.aacc
21:00:33 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:00:35 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, +1.208.123.aaaa, Jan, +1.561.582.aabb, SueAnnN, AnnM, +1.208.123.aacc
21:10:14 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:10:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/17-au-minutes.html jeanne
21:10:43 [jeanne]
zakim, bye
21:10:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au