19:42:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ssn
19:42:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-irc
19:42:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ssn
19:42:36 <Holger> zakim, this will be INC_SSN 
19:42:36 <Zakim> ok, Holger; I see INC_SSN()4:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
19:43:07 <Holger> Meeting: SSN XG 12-August-2009
19:43:20 <Holger> Chair: Holger
19:44:38 <Holger> Regrets: AmitS, Krzysztof, Victor, Kerry
19:44:45 <Holger> agenda+ Roll call
19:44:52 <Holger> agenda+ Scribe list
19:45:03 <Holger> agenda+ Discussion about Observation/Phenomenon structure in the SSN Ontology
19:45:11 <Holger> agenda+ Refine/prioritise use cases: how to do that and when to start
19:45:17 <Holger> agenda+ AOB
19:47:14 <Holger> agenda?
19:51:49 <Zakim> INC_SSN()4:00PM has now started
19:51:56 <Zakim> +Holger
19:54:46 <Holger> zakim, whi's on the phone?
19:54:46 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Holger.
19:54:51 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
19:54:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger
19:55:23 <Danh_DERI> Danh_DERI has joined #ssn
19:55:34 <Zakim> +??P1
19:56:48 <Zakim> +giorgi
19:59:00 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ssn
19:59:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:00:14 <Zakim> + +1.206.662.aaaa
20:00:42 <Arthur> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:00:42 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
20:00:54 <krp> krp has joined #ssn
20:01:07 <michael> michael has joined #ssn
20:01:53 <Zakim> +krp
20:02:04 <cory> cory has joined #ssn
20:02:31 <Zakim> +??P6
20:02:46 <michael> zakim, ??P6 is me
20:02:46 <Zakim> +michael; got it
20:02:49 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aabb
20:03:14 <Zakim> + +1.650.450.aacc
20:04:09 <JohnGraybeal> JohnGraybeal has joined #ssn
20:04:55 <Zakim> +Prateek
20:05:03 <bermudez> bermudez has joined #ssn
20:05:23 <cory> zakim, Prateek is me
20:05:23 <Zakim> +cory; got it
20:05:57 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:05:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, ??P1, giorgi, Arthur, +1.206.662.aaaa, krp, michael, +1.202.408.aabb, +1.650.450.aacc, cory
20:06:09 <Payam> Payam has joined #SSN
20:07:08 <Holger> agenda?
20:07:35 <Rodrigo> Rodrigo has joined #ssn
20:08:27 <kelsey> kelsey has joined #ssn
20:11:47 <Holger> ScribeNick: kelsey
20:12:00 <Zakim> + +34.98.439.aadd
20:12:50 <kelsey> Holger: meeting minutes will rotate via the scribe list
20:13:19 <kelsey> Action:  Holger to edit wiki to reflect scribe list
20:13:22 <Rodrigo> Zakim, +34-98.439.aadd is me
20:13:22 <Zakim> sorry, Rodrigo, I do not recognize a party named '+34-98.439.aadd'
20:13:30 <Rodrigo> Zakim, +34.98.439.aadd is me
20:13:30 <Zakim> +Rodrigo; got it
20:14:29 <Payam> +q
20:15:19 <Holger> ack payam
20:15:53 <michael> +q
20:15:57 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:16:07 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P1 (100%), giorgi (80%), Arthur (4%)
20:16:36 <Holger> ack michael
20:16:53 <Holger> zakim, mute ??P1
20:16:53 <Zakim> ??P1 should now be muted
20:17:18 <Holger> zakim, unmute ??P1
20:17:18 <Zakim> ??P1 should no longer be muted
20:17:22 <krp> +q
20:17:34 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:17:45 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: giorgi (56%), michael (60%)
20:18:05 <Holger> zakim, mute giorgi
20:18:05 <Zakim> giorgi should now be muted
20:18:26 <Holger> ack krp
20:18:55 <michael> +q
20:19:09 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:19:28 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 16 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arthur (9%), krp (2%), michael (63%)
20:20:05 <krp> +q
20:20:18 <Holger> ack michael
20:21:03 <Holger> ack krp
20:21:04 <JohnGraybeal> +q
20:21:23 <bermudez> +q
20:21:54 <kelsey> Holger:  need to have *some* representation of O&M in the ssn ontology
20:21:54 <Holger> ack JohnGraybeal
20:22:16 <cory> +q
20:22:32 <krp> +q
20:23:06 <Holger> ack bermudez
20:23:28 <kelsey> JohnGraybeal:  this group should not be focused on describing data sets (though device data will need to be described)
20:24:27 <Holger> ack cory
20:24:54 <Payam> +q
20:25:07 <Holger> ack krp
20:26:12 <Holger> ack Payam
20:26:21 <kelsey> cory:  perceived sensor web enablement was the focus, should in part focus on sensors
20:26:33 <michael> +q
20:26:52 <kelsey> payam:  device vs. phenomena - not interested in device, rather what is being measured
20:26:57 <Holger> ack michael
20:27:23 <Zakim> -michael
20:27:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:28:15 <michael> sorry lost connection
20:28:31 <michael> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:28:31 <Zakim> +michael; got it
20:29:42 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:29:54 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arthur (11%), michael (21%)
20:29:59 <Payam> +q
20:30:37 <krp> +q
20:30:42 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:30:49 <kelsey> michael:  ssn's may be used for phenomena measurement, but also sensor capabilities - hence the need to characterize sensors
20:30:55 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arthur (77%)
20:31:05 <Arthur> zakim, mute me
20:31:05 <Zakim> Arthur should now be muted
20:31:26 <Holger> ack Payam
20:31:58 <michael> +q
20:32:13 <Holger> ack michael
20:32:38 <cory> +q
20:32:52 <kelsey> payam:  Quality of information relative to the device - this is part of observation of measurement or device description?
20:32:58 <bermudez> +q
20:33:26 <Holger> ack krp
20:33:36 <kelsey> michael:  observation & measurement should reference back to the sensor to avoid redundancy in info reporting
20:34:13 <Payam> +q
20:34:37 <Holger> ack cory
20:34:47 <kelsey> krp:  need to have link between the data and the sensor
20:35:37 <Holger> ack bermudez
20:35:43 <kelsey> cory:  Quality is described in the SensorML spec (e.g. values generated from sensor should not be trusted if temperature falls outside specific bounds), this *could be* sensor specific and not observation
20:36:08 <Holger> ack Payam
20:36:18 <kelsey> bermudez:  SoS points to link in SensorML doc
20:36:36 <michael> +q
20:36:43 <cory> +q
20:37:24 <Holger> ack michael
20:37:30 <kelsey> payam:  How does the observation association relate to the temporal transience of the sensor (e.g.what if the sensor device changes quality over time)
20:37:44 <JohnGraybeal> Can someone point me to our statement of intent to annotate SWE data using a data ontology?
20:38:20 <Payam> +q
20:39:07 <Holger> ack cory
20:39:38 <Holger> ack Payam
20:39:48 <Arthur> +q
20:39:51 <Arthur> zakim, unmute me
20:39:51 <Zakim> Arthur should no longer be muted
20:40:14 <kelsey> michael:  attach sensor historical information in observation vs. time tag in observation used to correlate with device managed history
20:40:21 <Holger> ack Arthur
20:41:17 <Payam> +q
20:41:25 <JohnGraybeal> +q
20:41:42 <kelsey> Payam:  what if sensor is no longer available?  Accuracy lookup may be lost
20:41:54 <Holger> ack Payam
20:42:17 <kelsey> Arthur:  UID and sensor quality can be sent
20:42:44 <Holger> ack: JohnGraybeal
20:42:50 <Holger> ack JohnGraybeal
20:42:58 <kelsey> Payam:  this suggest an archiving approach
20:43:15 <krp> Yes, much of this sounds an implementation detail - if the resource representing the sensor doesn't persist I'm not sure there's much we can do about that in the ontology
20:43:54 <kelsey> JohnGraybeal:  ontology should focus on device (and data, if desired) description - not system design
20:44:32 <krp> (sorry, meant that if the sensor doesn't persist that doesn't mean the resource representing it doesn't persist)
20:44:38 <michael> agreed we can't 'solve' semantic sensor networks, just build an ontology - but do need some use cases
20:44:45 <kelsey> Holger:  target of this discussion is do we need O&M (description of data) in the device ontology
20:45:16 <kelsey> agree with michael - let the use cases drive this
20:45:29 <JohnGraybeal> I would have said do we need an O&M ontology, not does it need to be *in* the device ontology
20:45:54 <michael> we can just import odoe or similar and start there
20:46:02 <krp> I think that a valid point on email was that there isn't much to/in the O&M model
20:47:13 <kelsey> Holger:  Linkage of O&M in the ontology will be discussed in the ontology working group
20:48:13 <kelsey> Holger:  what approach should be used for identification/selection of use case drivers?
20:48:33 <michael> what happened to Simon's use cases?
20:50:49 <kelsey> Action:  Holger will follow up with Simon re use cases
20:51:21 <JohnGraybeal> +q
20:51:45 <Holger> ack JohnGraybeal
20:52:32 <kelsey> JohnGraybeal:  can use cases successfully drive development?
20:55:09 <krp> Are the use cases for ontology validation? Or for analysis to develop the ontology from? Is the question how rigorous or complete the coverage of the use cases needs to be such that they're useful to us? 
20:56:03 <kelsey> JohnGraybeal:  team could id key ontology requirements (or existing use cases) vs. taking the time required to develop reasonable use cases
20:56:12 <krp> (so yes, as John just said)
20:56:49 <JohnGraybeal> Yes, those are the right questions krp.
20:57:50 <JohnGraybeal> I would be willing to build a "what do you want the ontology for" page to answer the question...
20:58:06 <JohnGraybeal> ... (the question of what the priority uses should be)
20:58:14 <kelsey> Action:  All to send desired ontology capabilities to the mailing list
21:00:03 <michael> good idea
21:01:00 <kelsey> Action: JohnGraybeal will create a page on the wiki with brief description of use cases (what the ontology should be used for), send here rather than the mailing list
21:01:27 <kelsey> put on the wiki directly, send it to the mailing list or send directly to John
21:01:48 <krp> Thanks, bye.
21:01:50 <Zakim> - +1.202.408.aabb
21:01:53 <Zakim> - +1.650.450.aacc
21:01:55 <Zakim> -michael
21:01:55 <Zakim> -??P1
21:01:57 <Zakim> -giorgi
21:01:59 <Zakim> -Arthur
21:02:01 <Zakim> - +1.206.662.aaaa
21:02:01 <Zakim> -Rodrigo
21:02:06 <Zakim> -krp
21:02:15 <Arthur> Arthur has left #ssn
21:02:34 <Zakim> -Holger
21:02:57 <Holger> zakim, bye 
21:02:57 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Holger, giorgi, +1.206.662.aaaa, Arthur, krp, michael, +1.202.408.aabb, +1.650.450.aacc, cory, Rodrigo
21:02:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ssn
21:02:59 <Holger> rrsagent, make log public
21:03:09 <Holger> rrsagent, draft minutes 
21:03:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-minutes.html Holger
21:03:46 <Holger> rrsagent, bye 
21:03:46 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-actions.rdf :
21:03:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Holger to edit wiki to reflect scribe list [1]
21:03:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-irc#T20-13-19
21:03:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Holger will follow up with Simon re use cases [2]
21:03:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-irc#T20-50-49
21:03:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: All to send desired ontology capabilities to the mailing list [3]
21:03:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-irc#T20-58-14
21:03:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JohnGraybeal will create a page on the wiki with brief description of use cases (what the ontology should be used for), send here rather than the mailing list [4]
21:03:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-ssn-irc#T21-01-00