14:53:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:53:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc
14:53:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:53:41 <irc> zakim, this will be rdfa
14:53:41 <Zakim> ok, irc; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:53:51 <irc> Scribe: Manu_Sporny
14:54:04 <irc> ScribeNick: msporny
14:54:30 <irc> Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force
14:54:40 <irc> Chair: Ben_Adida
14:54:46 <irc> Present: Manu_Sporny
14:54:58 <irc> Regrets: Michael_Hausenblas, Mark_Birbeck
14:55:31 <irc> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes
14:55:44 <irc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jul/0183.html
14:56:38 <irc> rrsagent, make log public
14:56:46 <irc> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html irc
14:59:06 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:00:17 <msporny> zakim, code?
15:00:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), msporny
15:00:57 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:04 <Zakim> +McCarron
15:01:25 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is ShaneM
15:01:25 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:01:41 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:01:44 <Zakim> +??P19
15:01:48 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
15:01:51 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P19
15:01:51 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:03:36 <msporny> Regrets+ Steven_Pemberton
15:03:46 <msporny> Regrets+ Ralph_Swick
15:05:11 <msporny> will try calling back in
15:05:17 <Zakim> -msporny
15:06:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:24 <msporny> zakim, I am ??IPcaller
15:06:24 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??IPcaller'
15:06:27 <msporny> zakim, I am +IPcaller
15:06:27 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '+IPcaller'
15:06:31 <msporny> zakim, I am IPcaller
15:06:32 <Zakim> ok, msporny, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:06:58 <msporny> Topic: Action Items
15:07:08 <msporny> ACTION: Ben to query the RDFa TF and ML to gather feedback regarding the XMLLiteral default for @datatype [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
15:07:13 <msporny> -- DONE
15:07:28 <msporny> ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
15:07:38 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:07:43 <msporny> Ben: Did a little bit of work on that
15:07:54 <msporny> Ben: We should wrap it up - we have enough support now.
15:08:56 <msporny> Manu: Time frame?
15:09:14 <msporny> Manu: HTML WG will have LC on HTML5 in Oct
15:09:33 <msporny> Ben: Would like to get it started at first point in August.
15:10:06 <msporny> Ben: We need to structure it so that it's easy for the W3C to accept the RDFa IG. It's not controversial.
15:10:33 <msporny> Topic: XML Literals (thoughts)
15:10:45 <msporny> Ben: Not much feedback, would it warrant versioning?
15:10:49 <msporny> Shane: Yes, absolutely it would.
15:11:09 <msporny> Ben: If it's a matter-of-fact - Google and Yahoo want the change.
15:11:17 <msporny> Shane: Doesn't matter, we need to change the language identifier.
15:11:28 <msporny> Shane: This is exactly why languages need version specifiers.
15:11:46 <msporny> Ben: yes, but changes are so minor.
15:12:10 <msporny> Shane: Yes, but this isn't an errata - even if nobody has used the feature, it's an incompatible change.
15:14:35 <msporny> Manu: I agree with Shane and the ghost of Ralph on this situation.
15:14:47 <msporny> Manu: We're going to have to bump revision numbers at some point.
15:14:59 <msporny> Ben: Yes, maybe - but we have to go through LC.
15:15:10 <msporny> Shane: We've been talking about releasing the XML Schema version
15:15:25 <msporny> Shane: We will have to do a proposed edited REC
15:15:36 <msporny> Ben: That has no backwards-incompatible changes, right?
15:15:46 <msporny> Shane: Yes and we don't have to change the version numbers.
15:15:57 <msporny> Shane: You have to issue tracker, disposition of comments, diff-marked, etc.
15:16:18 <msporny> Ben: but if you re-open backwards-incompatible changes, the scope you have to address is wider.
15:16:32 <msporny> Shane: Yes.
15:18:17 <msporny> Topic: HTML5+RDFa FPWD proposal and xmlns: language change
15:18:30 <benadida> ACTION: Shane to produce proposed diff re: XMLLiteral change
15:20:02 <benadida> Manu: LarryM (Adobe) has proposed that all 3 current HTML5 specs be simultaneously published for heartbeat
15:20:23 <benadida> ... they don't care deeply about RDFa, but want a process for alternate specs.
15:20:40 <benadida> ... Maciej doesn't want to hold up Ian's version
15:21:58 <benadida> ... SamRuby wants 3 people (not in RDFa community) to support the HTML5+RDFa spec.
15:33:37 <msporny> Ben: I will respond on HTML WG and look at the thread
15:35:41 <msporny> Ben: What about xmlns: language?
15:36:15 <msporny> Manu: It doesn't state anywhere in the HTML5 spec, that I can tell, that preserves "invalid" attributes in the DOM. 
15:37:31 <msporny> Manu: it affects firebug, facebook, etc.
15:37:40 <msporny> Ben: It also affects Dojo.
15:37:51 <msporny> Shane: There is a difference between xml mode and non-xml mode.
15:38:31 <msporny> Shane: In non-xml mode, literals are preserved (with some weird thing about colons), but in xml mode, they are not preserved
15:38:48 <msporny> Shane: since it doesn't go into the NULL namespace, it goes into the xmlns namespace
15:39:02 <msporny> Shane: You can't find it because the literal isn't there anymore.
15:42:06 <msporny> Ben: xmlns: must be supported in XHTML5.
15:42:42 <msporny> Shane: That already works.
15:43:06 <msporny> Ben: Then why can't the HTML5 DOM support at least the xmlns: attribute.
15:43:12 <msporny> Ben: Why are we special casing?
15:43:25 <msporny> Ben: It's a part of the way things have always been done.
15:44:11 <msporny> Shane: This isn't hard to do, please do push that argument on HTML WG.
15:49:25 <msporny> Ben: There is an issue that Ian gets to CTR, but others can't.
15:51:40 <msporny> Topic: @profile discussion
15:52:00 <msporny> Ben: Trying not to become more extremist about this, but it's making me worried.
15:53:53 <msporny> Manu: Seen my latest e-mail about "we're doing the same work with both approaches"
15:54:45 <msporny> Ben: Yes, but what we're dealing with is vocabularies that will bootstrap on other vocabularies.
15:55:27 <msporny> Ben: So, http://google.com/vocab#title becomes the de-factor instead of http://dcterms.org/terms/title
15:56:20 <msporny> Ben: It rules out Javascript parsers...
15:56:48 <msporny> Ben: It must take on a big scope that most parsers take on - security implications.
15:57:07 <msporny> Ben: Dereferencing third party websites is problematic.
15:57:58 <msporny> Ben: In Mark's proposal, there's no step-wise approach. It's all or nothing.
15:59:09 <msporny> Manu: I think you have good points re: security and re: Javascript parsers being impossible with Mark's proposal.
15:59:22 <msporny> Shane: Yes, those are deal-breakers for me.
16:00:40 <msporny> Ben: With the current approach, XSS makes it impossible.
16:01:02 <msporny> Shane: My sense with your proposal is that it doesn't have much to do with RDFa.
16:01:21 <msporny> Ben: with my proposal, I need the ability to set the default CURIE prefix, which I can't do.
16:02:59 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to summarize architectural issues (security) re: @profile proposal for tokenizing the web.
16:06:07 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:06:09 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
16:06:15 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:06:16 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:06:17 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Ben_Adida, msporny, [IPcaller]
16:06:32 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:06:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
16:15:13 <msporny> Present+ Shane_McCarron
16:15:17 <msporny> Present+ Ben_Adida
16:15:21 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:15:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
16:19:03 <ShaneM> ShaneM has left #rdfa
17:31:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
17:44:55 <msporny> rrsagent, bye
17:44:55 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-actions.rdf :
17:44:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to query the RDFa TF and ML to gather feedback regarding the XMLLiteral default for @datatype [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [1]
17:44:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T15-07-08
17:44:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [2]
17:44:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T15-07-28
17:44:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to produce proposed diff re: XMLLiteral change [3]
17:44:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T15-18-30
17:44:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to summarize architectural issues (security) re: @profile proposal for tokenizing the web. [4]
17:44:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T16-02-59