IRC log of sparql on 2009-07-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:58:01 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #sparql
- 13:58:01 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-sparql-irc
- 13:58:05 [LeeF]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 13:58:07 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 13:58:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #sparql
- 13:58:09 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 77277
- 13:58:09 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
- 13:58:10 [trackbot]
- Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
- 13:58:10 [trackbot]
- Date: 28 July 2009
- 13:58:11 [Zakim]
- SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
- 13:58:14 [LeeF]
- zakim, this will be SPARQL
- 13:58:15 [Zakim]
- ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
- 13:58:19 [Zakim]
- + +3539149aaaa
- 13:58:32 [AxelPolleres]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 13:58:32 [Zakim]
- +AxelPolleres; got it
- 13:58:47 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 13:58:48 [Zakim]
- +EricP
- 13:58:52 [kasei]
- Zakim, IPCaller is me
- 13:58:52 [Zakim]
- +kasei; got it
- 13:59:17 [kasei]
- ericP: ah, ok. wiki lists you as scribing today, but I was asked last week... preference?
- 13:59:20 [Zakim]
- + +1.919.200.aabb
- 13:59:35 [Zakim]
- + +49.261.287.aacc
- 13:59:38 [SimonKJ]
- Zakim, +1.919.200.aabb is me
- 13:59:38 [Zakim]
- +SimonKJ; got it
- 13:59:47 [Zakim]
- +LeeF
- 13:59:51 [SimonS]
- Zakim, aacc is me
- 13:59:51 [Zakim]
- +SimonS; got it
- 14:00:14 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Vacation_List
- 14:00:40 [ivan]
- zakim, dial ivan-voip
- 14:00:40 [Zakim]
- ok, ivan; the call is being made
- 14:00:43 [Zakim]
- +Ivan
- 14:01:00 [ivan]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:01:00 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-sparql-minutes.html ivan
- 14:01:01 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 14:01:03 [AndyS]
- zakim, ??P12 is me
- 14:01:03 [Zakim]
- +AndyS; got it
- 14:01:11 [Zakim]
- +Ed_Simon
- 14:01:40 [AlexPassant]
- Zakim, Ed_Simon is me
- 14:01:40 [Zakim]
- +AlexPassant; got it
- 14:01:43 [AlexPassant]
- :)
- 14:02:03 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 14:02:07 [AxelPolleres]
- zakim, who is on the phone
- 14:02:07 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres
- 14:02:16 [AxelPolleres]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:02:16 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, EricP, SimonKJ, SimonS, LeeF, Ivan, AndyS, AlexPassant, ??P19
- 14:02:18 [LukeWM]
- zakim, ??P19 is me
- 14:02:19 [Zakim]
- +LukeWM; got it
- 14:02:29 [Zakim]
- +??P20
- 14:02:37 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, ??P20 is me
- 14:02:37 [Zakim]
- +kjetil_; got it
- 14:02:50 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-21
- 14:02:54 [LeeF]
- Regrets: Birte, Bijan, SteveH, Chime
- 14:03:08 [bglimm]
- bglimm has joined #SPARQL
- 14:03:19 [AxelPolleres]
- just tarting, birte
- 14:03:33 [kasei]
- who is scribing?
- 14:03:34 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
- 14:03:46 [LukeWM]
- ericP was on scribe list I think
- 14:03:50 [kasei]
- I was asked, but not listed on the wiki...
- 14:04:11 [Prateek]
- Prateek has joined #sparql
- 14:04:12 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-28
- 14:04:37 [AxelPolleres]
- scribe: Eric
- 14:04:50 [AxelPolleres]
- scribenick ericP
- 14:04:58 [Zakim]
- + +1.937.775.aadd
- 14:04:59 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:05:00 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should now be muted
- 14:05:19 [LeeF]
- zakim, aadd is Prateek
- 14:05:19 [Zakim]
- +Prateek; got it
- 14:05:25 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-21
- 14:06:03 [AndyS]
- Agenda points to 2009-07-14
- 14:06:13 [AxelPolleres]
- PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-21
- 14:06:45 [AxelPolleres]
- RESOLVED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-21
- 14:07:20 [kasei]
- sure
- 14:07:22 [pgearon]
- pgearon has joined #sparql
- 14:07:30 [AxelPolleres]
- greg to scribe next week.
- 14:07:44 [Zakim]
- + +1.216.445.aaee
- 14:07:49 [john-l]
- Zakim, aaee is me
- 14:07:49 [Zakim]
- +john-l; got it
- 14:08:02 [ericP]
- topic: Liasons
- 14:08:02 [Zakim]
- + +1.312.863.aaff
- 14:08:15 [ericP]
- ericP: nothing to report from HCLS or XQuery
- 14:08:24 [pgearon]
- Zakim, aaff is me
- 14:08:24 [Zakim]
- +pgearon; got it
- 14:08:27 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: nothing to report from RIF
- 14:08:59 [AxelPolleres]
- no news from liaisons
- 14:09:02 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: actions
- 14:09:32 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/16
- 14:09:42 [AxelPolleres]
- continued
- 14:10:09 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/19 continued
- 14:10:16 [SimonKJ]
- I have started to get 403 errors on the wiki, it worked 10 minutes ago
- 14:10:41 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/55
- 14:10:55 [SimonKJ]
- all
- 14:11:07 [SimonKJ]
- I had loaded the agenda first thing, I just hot reload and got 403
- 14:11:35 [SimonKJ]
- hopefully a temporary glitch, just be nice to see the action/issue list
- 14:11:42 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Vacation_List
- 14:11:55 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/61 done
- 14:12:03 [pgearon]
- +q
- 14:12:14 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/62 done
- 14:12:29 [LukeWM]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/UpdateIssues
- 14:12:36 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/63 done
- 14:13:15 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/68 done
- 14:13:45 [kjetil_]
- q+ to propose that F&R should be early in the meeting
- 14:13:46 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: Establish task-forces for some time-permitting features
- 14:14:07 [LeeF]
- q+ to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/UpdateIssues vis a vis http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues
- 14:14:16 [kjetil_]
- ack pgearon
- 14:14:19 [AxelPolleres]
- action-55 continued!
- 14:14:26 [kjetil_]
- ack me
- 14:14:27 [Zakim]
- kjetil_, you wanted to propose that F&R should be early in the meeting
- 14:16:12 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:16:12 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should now be muted
- 14:16:24 [AxelPolleres]
- we will discuss F&R before negation.
- 14:16:46 [ericP]
- LeeF: should we be using issue tracker or the wiki?
- 14:16:57 [kjetil_]
- q+ to say that HTTP RESTful is missing from the agenda too
- 14:17:12 [LukeWM]
- q+
- 14:17:14 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: goal of the page is to aggregate e.g. update issues on the update page
- 14:17:17 [AndyS]
- Is the Update page supposed to have all the things w have discussed so far?
- 14:17:26 [AxelPolleres]
- ack Lee
- 14:17:26 [Zakim]
- LeeF, you wanted to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/UpdateIssues vis a vis http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues
- 14:17:35 [kjetil_]
- ack me
- 14:17:37 [Zakim]
- kjetil_, you wanted to say that HTTP RESTful is missing from the agenda too
- 14:17:40 [LeeF]
- ACTION: Lee to create (& link) tracked issues for everything listed at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/UpdateIssues
- 14:17:40 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-70 - Create (& link) tracked issues for everything listed at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/UpdateIssues [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-08-04].
- 14:17:59 [ericP]
- kjetil: would like HTTP ReSTful update on the agenda today
- 14:18:23 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: wanted to start with issues we've already discussed. happy to get to [HTTP ReSTful update]
- 14:18:55 [ericP]
- kjetil, update is high-level discussion -- would like that before detailed discussion
- 14:19:15 [ericP]
- kjetil: update is high-level discussion -- would like that before detailed discussion
- 14:19:29 [ericP]
- ... would like a straw poll
- 14:19:39 [LeeF]
- can someone explain to me what the high-level discussion is that's different from what we'd already resolved?
- 14:19:44 [AxelPolleres]
- q?
- 14:19:46 [Zakim]
- -LukeWM
- 14:19:50 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:19:50 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should now be muted
- 14:19:51 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: will put ReSTful update on next agenda
- 14:20:10 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: Establish task-forces for some time-permitting features
- 14:20:37 [kjetil_]
- LeeF, have we resolved anything regarding HTTP REST Update?
- 14:20:47 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 14:20:49 [LeeF]
- kjetil, yes, we resolved to pursue them wherever they make sense
- 14:21:05 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: while we need to spend telecon time on required features, we don't want to forget time-permitting
- 14:21:16 [LukeWM]
- zakim, ??P19 is me
- 14:21:16 [Zakim]
- +LukeWM; got it
- 14:21:28 [ericP]
- ... would like to find task forces which will meet at other times
- 14:21:58 [ericP]
- ... need one or two folks to drive these issues
- 14:22:06 [LeeF]
- kjetil, back on June 2 - see http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-02#resolution_3
- 14:22:06 [ericP]
- ... would like poll progress in a month
- 14:22:10 [LukeWM]
- AndyS, I think that the update issues discussed so far ought to be on the wikipage, but no one has added anything apart from me as far as I can tell.
- 14:22:19 [AxelPolleres]
- q?
- 14:22:32 [bglimm]
- I am volunteering for other entailment regimes
- 14:22:54 [AndyS]
- I see a lot of things :: "Negation" and "Time Permitting Features"
- 14:22:58 [ericP]
- LukeWM: update wiki page doesn't cover all issues -- encourage group to flush it out
- 14:23:12 [kjetil_]
- LeeF, we're sidetracking here, but after that, there has come up four concrete alternatives to pursue, some of which are very different
- 14:23:25 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: think that's covered with LeeF's action to transfer issues list issues to update wiki page
- 14:23:33 [LeeF]
- kjetil, ok, that's what i was asking about, since i've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks
- 14:23:40 [kjetil_]
- LeeF, for example, I and SimonS have forwarded diametrically different proposals
- 14:23:46 [AxelPolleres]
- BGP extensions for entailment regimes
- 14:23:55 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:SPARQL/OWL
- 14:24:04 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: for BGP entailment regimes, had 5 folks interested
- 14:24:43 [ericP]
- ... Birte and Bijan available to lead Entailment Regime TF
- 14:25:33 [ericP]
- ... expect a report in a month to provide info for F&R doc
- 14:26:00 [AxelPolleres]
- LeeF: suggests strawpoll per feature.
- 14:26:21 [AndyS]
- I am interested in BGP entailment regimes (to implement some of them)
- 14:26:30 [AxelPolleres]
- strawpoll: who wants to contribute to BGP entailment TF?
- 14:26:40 [bglimm]
- +1
- 14:26:40 [ivan]
- I am interested by the BGP one
- 14:26:45 [AxelPolleres]
- (+1 means yes, -1 no)
- 14:26:48 [AxelPolleres]
- +1
- 14:26:48 [ivan]
- +1
- 14:26:52 [kjetil_]
- -1
- 14:26:57 [LukeWM]
- -1
- 14:27:10 [SimonS]
- -1
- 14:27:13 [kasei]
- -1
- 14:27:13 [AndyS]
- +1
- 14:27:26 [SimonKJ]
- -1
- 14:27:44 [ericP]
- -ei^2
- 14:27:44 [pgearon]
- +1
- 14:28:25 [AxelPolleres]
- Feature: PropertyPaths
- 14:28:31 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:PropertyPaths
- 14:28:59 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 14:28:59 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should no longer be muted
- 14:29:27 [AxelPolleres]
- AndyS takes lead on PropPaths
- 14:29:31 [ericP]
- AndyS: i will drive the PropertyPaths TF
- 14:30:07 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:30:07 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should now be muted
- 14:30:13 [ericP]
- kjetil: I expect to provide test cases for PropertyPaths
- 14:30:29 [LukeWM]
- +1
- 14:30:30 [AlexPassant]
- +1
- 14:30:30 [SimonKJ]
- +1
- 14:30:30 [ivan]
- +1
- 14:30:32 [LeeF]
- +1
- 14:30:39 [pgearon]
- +1
- 14:31:07 [kjetil_]
- +1
- 14:31:17 [AxelPolleres]
- +0
- 14:31:32 [SimonS]
- +0
- 14:32:13 [AxelPolleres]
- Feature: Commonly used SPARQL functions
- 14:32:18 [ericP]
- LeeF: it would be great if the TFs meet
- 14:32:54 [ericP]
- ericP: TF can "/invite Zakim #sparql" and "Zakim, space for 5?" to get an ad-hoc conference
- 14:33:04 [ericP]
- s/TF can/TFs can/
- 14:34:02 [AxelPolleres]
- Eric: feature function library I could provide input there.
- 14:34:14 [ericP]
- LeeF: this one will be easier so doesn't need so much formalism
- 14:34:27 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: would like someone responsible
- 14:34:51 [AxelPolleres]
- Axel: I will kick off function library discussion
- 14:35:32 [AxelPolleres]
- ericP: existing extensibility mechanism provides a good way to extend the core.
- 14:36:02 [AxelPolleres]
- AndyS: rather identifying URIs for common functions.
- 14:36:18 [ericP]
- s/extensibility mechanism provides a good way to extend the core.
- 14:36:20 [ericP]
- 2009-07-28T14:36:02Z <AxelPolleres> AndyS: rather identifying URIs for
- 14:36:22 [ericP]
- ERG!
- 14:36:39 [AxelPolleres]
- strawpoll: who to contribute in function library?
- 14:36:41 [AxelPolleres]
- +1
- 14:36:45 [ericP]
- s/existing extensibility mechanism/existing functions and operators table/
- 14:37:04 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:BasicFederatedQuery
- 14:37:32 [AxelPolleres]
- feature: federated query
- 14:37:33 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: champions AndyS, iv_an_ru, SimonS
- 14:37:51 [ericP]
- ... TF lead: SimonS
- 14:37:54 [kjetil_]
- +1 (hopes to contribute test cases again)
- 14:37:56 [ericP]
- +1
- 14:37:58 [pgearon]
- +!
- 14:38:00 [SimonKJ]
- +1
- 14:38:00 [pgearon]
- +1
- 14:38:02 [kasei]
- +1
- 14:38:10 [LeeF]
- I hope to contribute, but not sure I'll have enough time
- 14:38:31 [AndyS]
- as for LeeF
- 14:38:39 [AxelPolleres]
- q?
- 14:38:48 [LeeF]
- ack LukeWM
- 14:38:48 [AxelPolleres]
- ack LukeWM
- 14:39:00 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: we have folks assigned to all features, please go ahead and start your task forces
- 14:39:12 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: minus vs. unsaid
- 14:39:37 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: F&R document
- 14:39:40 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 14:39:40 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should no longer be muted
- 14:40:02 [ericP]
- kjetil: F&R FPWD published
- 14:40:21 [ericP]
- ... my time is uncertain
- 14:40:36 [ericP]
- ... have inserted tempates for time-permitting features
- 14:40:46 [ericP]
- ... need to get them into shape
- 14:41:00 [ericP]
- AlexPassant: will have time in Aug
- 14:41:41 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: need to get ahold of time-permitting TF leads to get paragraphs
- 14:41:43 [LukeWM]
- LukeWM has joined #sparql
- 14:42:21 [ericP]
- ... would like next F&R at same time as FPWDs of Query and Update
- 14:43:24 [ericP]
- ericP: would be nice to give time to get public feedback, but not sure that's feasible given the timeline
- 14:43:34 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: do we need more advertising?
- 14:43:47 [kjetil_]
- freetext has been brought up
- 14:43:56 [ericP]
- kjetil: swig?
- 14:44:02 [kjetil_]
- has it been posted to the semantic-web ml?
- 14:44:12 [kjetil_]
- it has been chumped on #swig
- 14:44:22 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: please suggest publication locations
- 14:44:30 [ericP]
- ... we shoudl contact liased WGs
- 14:44:57 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Axel to re-check where to announce F&R (e.g. liaisons)
- 14:44:58 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-71 - Re-check where to announce F&R (e.g. liaisons) [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-08-04].
- 14:44:59 [ericP]
- AndyS: when's last F&R, last call [for Query and Update]?
- 14:45:09 [ericP]
- ivan: it's a note, so we decide the process
- 14:45:40 [ericP]
- kjetil: would like to make a wiki page copying the F&R doc so folks can edit it
- 14:45:58 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Alex to take F&R current version back to wiki for editing
- 14:45:58 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-72 - Take F&R current version back to wiki for editing [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-08-04].
- 14:46:38 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: MINUS vs. UNSAID
- 14:47:15 [ericP]
- LeeF: AndyS written up UNSAID and ericP's written MINUS
- 14:47:23 [kjetil_]
- probably a good idea to create new pages rather than use the Category:Features pages
- 14:47:28 [kjetil_]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:47:28 [Zakim]
- kjetil_ should now be muted
- 14:47:33 [ericP]
- ... from implementor's perspectice, MINUS is an algebraic op to combine result sets
- 14:47:58 [ericP]
- ... while UNSAID is a FILTER which takes a triple pattern and examines existing bindings
- 14:48:29 [ericP]
- ... from query writer's perspective, in most cases MINUS and UNSAID give you the same results
- 14:48:53 [ericP]
- ... when they don't it's when OPTIONALs introduce vars
- 14:49:06 [ericP]
- ... those queries tend to be strage and artificial
- 14:49:32 [AxelPolleres]
- BTW: I will assign actions to the TF leads to kick-off discussions, just to keep track.
- 14:49:44 [LukeWM]
- q+
- 14:49:45 [ericP]
- ... someone listed a use case, examining where it is more natural to express one way or another
- 14:50:09 [LeeF]
- ack LukeWM
- 14:50:26 [ericP]
- LukeWM: if we banned opts, would it make MINUS and UNSAID equivalent?
- 14:50:44 [ericP]
- LeeF: i think we think they're identical at that point
- 14:51:03 [ericP]
- LukeWM: just wondering if there are compelling use cases for OPTIONALs
- 14:51:15 [kasei]
- i'm not sure it can be identical if we haven't nailed down the antijoin(+restriction) issue that ericP was discussing on the list yesterday.
- 14:51:26 [AxelPolleres]
- q+ on OPTIONALs
- 14:51:39 [LeeF]
- ack AxelPolleres
- 14:51:39 [Zakim]
- AxelPolleres, you wanted to comment on OPTIONALs
- 14:51:57 [ericP]
- LeeF: proposal to prohibit OPTIONALs in the unsaid pattern is interesting
- 14:52:13 [LeeF]
- kasei, you're right, but i've been working on the assumption that we are dealing with AntiJoin+Restriction, which is the same semantics as UNSAID for the cases in which the two patterns share no variables I think
- 14:52:29 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: i think restricting patterns makes it harder
- 14:52:29 [ericP]
- +1
- 14:52:35 [AxelPolleres]
- ack Axel
- 14:52:37 [pgearon]
- +q
- 14:52:42 [LeeF]
- ack pgearon
- 14:52:56 [AndyS]
- Messy syntax but that's all, I think.
- 14:53:40 [ericP]
- pgearon: leaning towards eliminating OPTIONALs because you don't want to eliminiate solutions which would have !BOUND vars
- 14:53:54 [SimonS]
- +1 pgearon.
- 14:53:55 [AxelPolleres]
- if we disallow that, then we probably should equally think about forbidding nesting optionals... ?!?
- 14:54:13 [ericP]
- LeeF: who's uncomfortable with prohibiting OPTIONALs in MINUS
- 14:54:14 [ericP]
- +1
- 14:54:56 [AxelPolleres]
- +1 to eric's +1 ;-)
- 14:55:07 [kasei]
- for the unsaid version, I think it makes a lot of sense, since I believe optional is a no-op in that case. not sure about minus.
- 14:55:09 [AndyS]
- Unsure about this because optionals appear in the LHS so the compatibility rules seem odd.
- 14:55:38 [SimonKJ]
- Could go either way on this, there's complexity in both choices
- 14:56:09 [ericP]
- ericP: would rather the discomfort occur when folks have to understand what happens with unbound vars rather than have different rules for subtraction sets
- 14:56:21 [AxelPolleres]
- LeeF: as long as the semantics is clear, for the corner cases, I think we don't have to worry too much about corner cases arising from OPTIONAL use
- 14:56:30 [AxelPolleres]
- (hope that summarizes lee right)
- 14:57:04 [ericP]
- Leef: MINUS (modulo ignoring empty results), UNSAID, OPTIONAL prohibited
- 14:57:22 [pgearon]
- we *could* say that OPTIONAL on the right is undefined. Is that a terrible idea if there is no use case to use it?
- 14:57:38 [LeeF]
- MIUS-AntiJoin+Restriction
- 14:57:42 [LeeF]
- MINUS-AntiJoin+Restriction
- 14:57:44 [LukeWM]
- +1
- 14:57:47 [ericP]
- +1
- 14:57:48 [AndyS]
- -1
- 14:57:53 [SimonKJ]
- -1
- 14:57:54 [SimonS]
- -1
- 14:57:55 [ivan]
- 0
- 14:57:56 [AxelPolleres]
- 0
- 14:58:00 [LeeF]
- +1
- 14:58:01 [kjetil_]
- 0
- 14:58:02 [AlexPassant]
- 0
- 14:58:11 [bglimm]
- 0
- 14:58:11 [kasei]
- i don't want to drag things down here, but i'm still shaky on the equivalence of unsaid and the antijoin+restriction...
- 14:58:12 [Prateek]
- 0
- 14:58:17 [kasei]
- -1
- 14:58:50 [kasei]
- maybe I need to re-read the emails
- 14:58:58 [LeeF]
- UNSAID
- 14:58:59 [ericP]
- why do they have to be equiv?
- 14:59:05 [ericP]
- 0
- 14:59:08 [AndyS]
- +1
- 14:59:09 [kasei]
- +1
- 14:59:10 [AlexPassant]
- +1
- 14:59:11 [LukeWM]
- -1
- 14:59:11 [ivan]
- +1
- 14:59:11 [AxelPolleres]
- +1
- 14:59:12 [SimonKJ]
- +1
- 14:59:12 [SimonS]
- +1
- 14:59:14 [LeeF]
- +1
- 14:59:20 [Prateek]
- +1
- 14:59:28 [kasei]
- ericP: they don't but I thought that had been asserted for the case without optionals (perhaps I've misuderstood that, too, though :)
- 14:59:33 [pgearon]
- abstain on both
- 14:59:48 [pgearon]
- probably for similar reasons to LeeF
- 14:59:53 [LeeF]
- MINUS or UNSAID prohibiting OPTIONALs on the RHS
- 14:59:59 [ericP]
- -1
- 15:00:04 [kjetil_]
- 0
- 15:00:07 [kasei]
- +1
- 15:00:10 [AndyS]
- -1
- 15:00:10 [SimonS]
- 0
- 15:00:12 [SimonKJ]
- 0
- 15:00:16 [LukeWM]
- +1
- 15:00:18 [AxelPolleres]
- 0 (not entirely egainst it, since it seems it might drop worst case complexity)
- 15:00:19 [ivan]
- 0 (does not know yet...)
- 15:00:22 [Prateek]
- 0
- 15:00:25 [LeeF]
- -1
- 15:00:30 [bglimm]
- 0
- 15:00:41 [kasei]
- although I think this might be two different things depending on UNSAID or MINUS
- 15:00:51 [pgearon]
- I'd rather "undefine" this pattern, rather than prohibit it
- 15:02:12 [LukeWM]
- AndyS, sure
- 15:02:37 [ericP]
- LeeF: clear leaning towards UNSAID
- 15:02:44 [AxelPolleres]
- LeeF/Eric: at least in FPWD we should sketch both.
- 15:02:46 [ericP]
- ... consistent with having AndyS edit the template
- 15:03:05 [ericP]
- ... plus red spec text inclusing alternatives
- 15:03:56 [ericP]
- topic: wrap-up
- 15:04:13 [ericP]
- AxelPolleres: i'll make actions for TF leads
- 15:04:30 [ericP]
- ... action to get TF leads to kick off discussion
- 15:04:40 [ivan]
- zakim, drop me
- 15:04:40 [Zakim]
- Ivan is being disconnected
- 15:04:41 [Zakim]
- -Ivan
- 15:04:43 [Zakim]
- -EricP
- 15:04:44 [Zakim]
- -john-l
- 15:04:45 [kasei]
- AndyS: is your understanding that optional is a no-op in UNSAID?
- 15:04:45 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 15:04:46 [Zakim]
- -SimonKJ
- 15:04:47 [Zakim]
- -Prateek
- 15:04:48 [LeeF]
- eric, can you try to follow the minutes instructions? :)
- 15:04:50 [Zakim]
- -SimonS
- 15:04:51 [Zakim]
- -AlexPassant
- 15:04:55 [SimonKJ]
- SimonKJ has left #sparql
- 15:04:56 [Zakim]
- -pgearon
- 15:04:57 [Zakim]
- -kjetil_
- 15:05:03 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, make minutes public
- 15:05:03 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 15:05:07 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 15:05:15 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:05:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres
- 15:05:43 [AxelPolleres]
- eric, will leave the minutes magic with you for today, ok?
- 15:06:00 [SimonS]
- SimonS has left #sparql
- 15:06:18 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Birte to kick of BGP entailment TF
- 15:06:18 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-73 - Kick of BGP entailment TF [on Birte Glimm - due 2009-08-04].
- 15:07:04 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Andy to kick off property paths TF
- 15:07:04 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-74 - Kick off property paths TF [on Andy Seaborne - due 2009-08-04].
- 15:07:11 [AndyS]
- kasei - you're right.
- 15:07:26 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Axel to kick off Function Library TF
- 15:07:26 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-75 - Kick off Function Library TF [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-08-04].
- 15:07:45 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: simon to kick off Basic Federated Query TF
- 15:07:45 [trackbot]
- Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - simon
- 15:07:45 [trackbot]
- Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sjohnsto2, sschenk)
- 15:08:00 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: simon schenk to kick off Basic Federated Query TF
- 15:08:00 [trackbot]
- Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - simon
- 15:08:00 [trackbot]
- Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sjohnsto2, sschenk)
- 15:08:11 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: sschenk to kick off Basic Federated Query TF
- 15:08:11 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-76 - Kick off Basic Federated Query TF [on Simon Schenk - due 2009-08-04].
- 15:13:57 [LukeWM]
- LukeWM has joined #sparql
- 15:17:45 [Zakim]
- -kasei
- 15:17:46 [AndyS]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:17:46 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, LukeWM
- 15:17:56 [LukeWM]
- bye
- 15:17:56 [Zakim]
- -LukeWM
- 15:17:58 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 15:17:58 [Zakim]
- SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
- 15:18:00 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +3539149aaaa, AxelPolleres, EricP, kasei, +49.261.287.aacc, SimonKJ, LeeF, SimonS, Ivan, AndyS, AlexPassant, LukeWM, kjetil_, +1.937.775.aadd, Prateek,
- 15:18:03 [Zakim]
- ... +1.216.445.aaee, john-l, +1.312.863.aaff, pgearon
- 15:18:52 [LukeWM]
- LukeWM has joined #sparql
- 15:21:03 [LukeWM]
- LukeWM has joined #sparql
- 15:37:28 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #sparql
- 15:52:50 [LeeF]
- ericP, can you do the minutes or are you gone?
- 17:43:18 [LukeWM]
- LukeWM has joined #sparql
- 17:56:32 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #sparql
- 18:01:51 [swh_]
- swh_ has joined #sparql