IRC log of xproc on 2009-07-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xproc
15:01:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-xproc-irc
15:01:47 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
15:01:47 [Norm]
Date: 23 July 2009
15:01:47 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/07/23-agenda
15:01:47 [Norm]
Meeting: 150
15:01:47 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
15:01:49 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
15:01:51 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+Norm
15:02:39 [Zakim]
+Jeroen
15:02:52 [MoZ]
Zakim, Jeroen is Vojtech
15:02:52 [Zakim]
+Vojtech; got it
15:03:24 [Norm]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see PGrosso, MoZ, Norm, Vojtech
15:05:59 [ht]
ht has joined #xproc
15:06:08 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
15:06:08 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
15:06:10 [Zakim]
+Ht
15:06:59 [Norm]
Present: Paul, Mohamed, Norm, Vojtech, Henry
15:07:39 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:07:39 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/07/23-agenda
15:07:44 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:07:58 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
15:07:58 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/07/16-minutes
15:07:59 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:08:18 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon 30 July 2009
15:08:30 [Norm]
Mohamed gives regrets.
15:08:54 [MoZ]
Zakim, mute me
15:08:54 [Zakim]
MoZ should now be muted
15:08:59 [Norm]
Topic: Recent comments on the CR draft
15:09:07 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/
15:09:50 [Norm]
Topic: 142 charset on unescape-markup?
15:10:03 [Norm]
Vojtech: I wasn't sure what the user was trying to do.
15:10:34 [Norm]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xproc-dev/2009Jul/att-0042/00-part
15:11:26 [Norm]
Zakim, who's talking?
15:11:36 [Zakim]
Norm, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vojtech (25%), Ht (84%)
15:11:41 [Norm]
Zakim, mute ht
15:11:41 [Zakim]
Ht should now be muted
15:11:55 [ht]
zakim, disconnect me
15:11:55 [Zakim]
Ht is being disconnected
15:11:56 [Zakim]
-Ht
15:11:57 [MoZ]
Zakim, unmute me
15:11:57 [Zakim]
MoZ should no longer be muted
15:12:06 [Norm]
Vojtech: I think unescape markup ignores the charset information if the content type is a text type.
15:12:08 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
15:12:08 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
15:12:09 [Zakim]
+Ht
15:12:27 [Norm]
...It only uses the charset information when the data is base64 encoded, to decode the data.
15:12:39 [Norm]
... I propose two solutions.
15:13:24 [Norm]
Vojtech: The output of unescape markup used the wrong charset.
15:13:38 [Norm]
...It only uses charset if the data is binary and base64 encoded.
15:14:22 [Norm]
...To make sure that the charset is used, use p:data and set the content-type to something binary. That assures that the data is base64 encoded and the charset will be used when decoding the data.
15:14:43 [Norm]
...The other solution is similar, in p:data set the charset so that p:data applies the right charset encoding.
15:14:56 [Norm]
Norm: Yes.
15:15:20 [Norm]
Norm: I think that if he got XML that was incorrectly encoded, that's a bug.
15:15:46 [Norm]
Vojtech: It depends how he passed that data to unescape-markup.
15:16:05 [Norm]
Norm: If p:data was used, then the charset should have been used when loading the data.
15:16:28 [Norm]
...If p:http-request was used and the return type was something Unicode, then the charset should have been used.
15:16:51 [Norm]
...If the return type was binary, then the result should have been base64 encoded and the charset should have been used when expanding that.
15:17:25 [Norm]
Norm: I can't think of any way to get data in the wrong character set into p:unescape-markup that isn't an implementation bug.
15:18:19 [Norm]
Norm: We're equally careful in p:http-request and p:data, so I think this is just a bug.
15:19:24 [Norm]
Vojtech: I tried these approaches in Calumet and they worked.
15:19:36 [Norm]
Norm: Ok, I think that makes it clear that this is an implementation error in XML Calabash
15:20:04 [Norm]
Vojtech: Related to this, I have a question about p:data. If you use p:data to load a text file that's in Windows-1252 then p:data converts it to Unicode characters.
15:20:22 [Norm]
...But at least in our implementation, the charset implementation still remains in the c:result wrapper.
15:20:25 [Norm]
...I wonder if that's correct.
15:22:43 [Norm]
Norm: In p:http-request, we're explicit that the content-type value must be an exact copy of the response header.
15:23:01 [Norm]
...In p:data, we have the added complication that sometimes we ahve to infer a content type. But we should probably say that it should be an exact copy if we do have one.
15:24:11 [Norm]
Vojtech: Even when inferring a content type you could do some magic to infer the charset.
15:25:19 [Norm]
Norm: I think we should add the same clarification here that we have in p:http-request, that the content type will reflect any charset specified even in the case where those characters have been converted to Unicode.
15:25:34 [Norm]
Proposal: do that
15:25:40 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:26:03 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to update the spec to specify the charset in p:data to be as explicit as it is in p:http-request.
15:26:28 [Norm]
That covers 143 as well.
15:26:35 [Norm]
Topic: 144 Semantics of p:wrap
15:27:05 [Norm]
Norm: The semantics of p:wrap are intended to be recursive, unlike what I initially said.
15:27:07 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:27:18 [Norm]
Close without action.
15:27:37 [Norm]
Topic: 145 Compound steps with unconnected output ports
15:27:54 [Norm]
Vojtech summarizes his email.
15:29:03 [Norm]
Norm: I think the answer is that you get an empty sequence if you try to read it.
15:29:12 [Norm]
Vojtech: And if sequence=false, then you get a dynamic error?
15:29:25 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, I think that's the case.
15:30:08 [Norm]
Vojtech: There's discussion of this in p:for-each but not generally
15:30:16 [Norm]
Norm: Right, I think we need a general statement.
15:30:37 [Norm]
Norm: Proposed: unbound output ports on a compound step return an empty sequence when they're read, it's an error if they don't specify sequence=true
15:30:54 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:31:00 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to say this in the spec.
15:31:35 [Norm]
Topic: 146 Primary output port in p:viewport
15:32:02 [Norm]
Vojtech: In viewport you can specify one output port. The spec says that p:viewport must contain a single primary output port.
15:32:30 [Norm]
...So do I have to set it primary explicitly, or is will it default to primary?
15:32:35 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, it will default to primary=true
15:33:38 [Norm]
Vojtech: A second question: suppose you have a declare-step and you declare two output ports.
15:33:49 [Norm]
...According to the rules, the other output port will be non-primary.
15:34:26 [Norm]
<p:declare-step>
15:34:26 [Norm]
<p:output port="one"/>
15:34:26 [Norm]
<p:output port="two" primary="false"/>
15:34:26 [Norm]
</p:declare-step>
15:34:42 [Norm]
General agrement: both are non-primary.
15:35:35 [Norm]
Topic: 147 primary output ports
15:35:37 [Norm]
Norm explains.
15:37:00 [Norm]
Vojtech: There's an implicit pipe binding in the p:with-option, so I think it's bound.
15:37:07 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, I think you're right.
15:37:22 [Norm]
Proposal: yes, that counts.
15:37:43 [Norm]
Mohamed: I don't think it's sufficient for cycle checking.
15:38:49 [Norm]
Norm: I think it is sufficient for cycle testing, there's a dependency between them.
15:39:48 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to attempt to clarify this in the spec.
15:40:46 [Norm]
Topic: Default XML processing model?
15:41:01 [Norm]
No news, it'll be a while before we can return to this.
15:41:06 [Norm]
Topic: Test suite progrss?
15:41:25 [Norm]
Norm: Vojtech gets a gold star for some truly tortuous tests this week.
15:41:41 [Norm]
Norm: I think some of the burden is on my to update the coverage report.
15:42:17 [Norm]
Vojtech: For tests for unconnected output ports, there is no well-defined static error for this case.
15:42:19 [Norm]
Norm: Right!
15:42:52 [Norm]
Norm: I made unconnected input ports static error and unconnected output ports static error 3.
15:43:19 [Norm]
Norm: We should look through the spec and make sure that there's an error code for every MUST and MUST NOT.
15:43:57 [Norm]
Vojtech: I'll do the review.
15:44:10 [Norm]
s/progrss/progress/
15:44:13 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
15:44:18 [Norm]
None heard.
15:44:21 [Norm]
Adjourned.
15:44:30 [Zakim]
-Norm
15:44:32 [Zakim]
-PGrosso
15:44:32 [Zakim]
-Vojtech
15:44:33 [Zakim]
-Ht
15:44:33 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
15:44:34 [Zakim]
Attendees were PGrosso, +95247aaaa, MoZ, Norm, Vojtech, Ht
15:44:44 [Norm]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:44:48 [Norm]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:44:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-xproc-minutes.html Norm
15:46:53 [PGrosso]
PGrosso has left #xproc
17:32:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #xproc