See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 23 July 2009
<scribe> scribe: AllanJ
KF: UAs could improve in direct
selection (numbering etc.) and performing actions
... begin reviewing survey
GL: interesting...navigation but also visual indication.
GL: navigation items could be
integrated with keyboard access success criteria
... assign keyboard shortcuts by type
<Greg> Overarching comment is to fold these into existing SC about about "direct keyboard commands" for enabled elements; this is adding the option to have the UA add them for all enabled elements that don't have them.
<Greg> Then, the option to have those direct keyboard commands displayed visually is already covered by 4.1.5.
<Greg> Although we could add the recommendations that the use be able to show/hide those shortcuts by category or type, and to adjust their visual display (although that is really one example of a more general problem of letting the user customize the display of all sorts of information.
KF: Mark move to 4.7
... not necessarily about shortcut keys
<scribe> ...new - identify actionable elements
<Greg> I said I think it's more appropriate for 4.1 because 4.7 is about structured navigation, and this proposal isn't structural because it treats elements identically regardless of where they are in the heirarchy.
KP: instead of 'tabbing' through
hundreds of links. need more efficient way to navigate
... different than a shortcut. A different layer.
... need a scheme, not random shortcuts.
GL: lots equate direct navigation with 'accesskey', direct navigation should be more general.
KP: How would you change this?
<Greg> My suggestion is summarized: I still lean towards replacing this proposed section with the recommendation that the UA provide an option to assign direct keyboard commands to all enabled elements that lack them. The display of those direct keyboard command would already be covered by 4.1.5 (Discovery of Keyboard Commands).
GL: specific example of firefox plugin to number links
KF: not sure if 4.1 or 4.7
provides functionality that KP proposes
... 4.7 should be about new navigation concepts and direct selection of elements
KP: makes sense. it is an extension of direct navigation
KF: where we put it is only part. need to review proposals.
JR: 4.1 is about full keyboard
... 4.15 discovery of keyboard commands.
... main point of KP proposal is author has not provide direct access
... UA imposes needed access for efficiency
KF: need direct selection
<Greg> Show/hide direct keyboard commands are equivalent to show/hide alt text, etc.
KP: user needs ability change show/hide link number indicators
GL: similar to show/hide
alternative content. could we have something general that
... and/or visual indicator of what is a link
KP: should be more global not a
... UA puts numbers by links, but overwrite contents, some users may need bigger number or high contrast or translucent
<Greg> How about something like "the user should be able to easily toggle options that change the rendering of the page."
KP: and be able to quickly turn them on/off
JR: configurability must be there. perhaps in techniques say how to configure
KF: dynamic updating?
<Greg> Ability to halt updating of display of those links, is that the same as stopping update of the page altogether?
KP: dynamic updating of content poses problems. should be a way to stop or change timing.
KF: don't hear disagreement on
needs for these functions
... level of detail on some of these is too specific (configurability)
... configurability should be clear across all features
... process...other items...continue to hash this, or take a second path.
KP: where should these go.
arguments are good for 4.1 or 4.7
... I need to know what is already covered. and what should be move to techniques
<Greg> Suggest a new SC equivalent "the user should be able to easily toggle options that change the layout of the page."
GL: toggle link numbers, alt
... hopefully would cover KP suggestions
KP: where does that go?
GL: don't know. first see if
approach is right, then put it somewhere
... is same thing true for updating page items 4.x.5
<Greg> I'd recommend the same approach to Kim's proposed 4.x.5, something about generally toggling the updating of the page.
KF: Perhaps Guideline 3 Perceivable. could we have GL item here
KP: works for me
GL: expand 3.1 beyond 'alt'
KF: not expand 3.1. the content
in 4.x.5 is not author content, it is UA content.
... conceptually they are different and should be separated
... MH is correct. This is a new concept. 4.1.7 is a good new home.
JR: GL point of easy toggling is good. UA provide keyboard commands for all actvie elements not just author supplied keybinding.
<Zakim> Jan, you wanted to say "a requirement for UAs to provide keyboard commands for all active elements even when no ceyboard command provided by author"
<scribe> ...new concept. UA should provide enhancements to the interface
MH: good. UA providing additional functionality.
KF: Proposal - MH and KP find way
to integrate to 4.7, and GL create a guideline in GL3 for
toggling display of enhanced functionality
... Henny could you work with MH & KP efforts.
<scribe> ACTION: KP to incorporate KP proposal for navigation in the UA (includes MH and HS) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Incorporate KP proposal for navigation in the UA (includes MH and HS) [on Kimberly Patch - due 2009-07-30].
<scribe> ACTION: GL to write generic criteria for configurability of UI and content UI controls (turn on/off, visual presentation, etc) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Write generic criteria for configurability of UI and content UI controls (turn on/off, visual presentation, etc) [on Greg Lowney - due 2009-07-30].
KF: discusses times
... various problems with timings and budgets
SH: teaching week of Nov 2, travel too tight other times.
KF: Boston option.
GL: lots of other travel already - perhaps
JS: need a sponsor.
KF: working on that. MIT
... Tentatively schedule F2F Nov 9-13 in Boston
<Jan> JR: I can make it that week - likely by phone
KF: need techniques document
JR: ATAG incorporating 'understanding' into techniques
<KFord> This was the doc from Jeanne.
JS: covered HTTP and UA errors, presented as an idea for format/structure
GL: follow WCAG and ATAG examples.
JR: shares ATAG experience. using 'intent' - why a guideline is there who it should help, etc.
KF: want to get a roadmap to develop necessary documents.
JS: what we are required to do is based on UAWG charter
JS: guidelines and techniques
zakim: open item 6
KF: all update your action items, make a new date or say not going to happen. for not happening email KF so we can create an issue so we don't loose items
SH: did we ever review SH issues?
KF: issues vs actions. talk about
issues next week.
... need to trim actions. issues are new potential work.
JS: new working draft published!!
KF: how to pay more
... canvas element and how to make accessible
<Henny> HTML5 and canvas accessibility from Steve Faulkner http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=362
KF: all please read peruse HTML 5
editors draft: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
GL: is there a list of all the guidelines that impact accessibility.
JS: PFWG covers this.
KF: PF would like UAWG to track work that impacts accessibility of UAs
<Greg> (Rather than guidelines per se, I was asking about a list of current projects affecting Web accessibility.)
<jeanne> In answer to Greg's question: Here is the Protocols and Formats working group list. http://www.w3.org/TR/#WD
<scribe> ACTION: KF to develop list of UA support of web technologies and accessibility, how does other work impact UA, make UAAG more relevant to web community (includes JA and MH) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-212 - Develop list of UA support of web technologies and accessibility, how does other work impact UA, make UAAG more relevant to web community (includes JA and MH) [on Kelly Ford - due 2009-07-30].
KF: should be a clearing house, link to other information on UAWG home page
<mth> ARIA Role support in UA's http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/aria-tests/ARIA-SafariaOperaIEFF.html
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: AllanJ Inferring ScribeNick: AllanJ Present: Kelly Henny Jeanne Kim Jan Mark Greg Jim Found Date: 23 Jul 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-ua-minutes.html People with action items: gl kf kp[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]