14:55:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:55:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-irc
14:55:27 <mhausenblas> Zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)
14:55:27 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:33 <mhausenblas> Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force
14:55:38 <mhausenblas> Chair: Ben
14:55:43 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jul/0154.html
14:55:48 <mhausenblas> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/16-rdfa-minutes
14:55:55 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Shane
14:55:59 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:55:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
14:56:03 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make record public
14:56:07 <mhausenblas> Scribenick: mhausenblas
14:56:15 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
14:57:34 <msporny> msporny has joined #rdfa
14:57:50 <msporny> zakim, code
14:57:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', msporny
14:58:04 <msporny> zakim, number?
14:58:04 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, msporny.
15:00:23 <msporny> hi, Michael :)
15:00:24 <mhausenblas> Zakim, code?
15:00:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), mhausenblas
15:00:33 <msporny> thanks :) 
15:00:40 <msporny> seriously, you need the question mark?
15:00:55 <msporny> awesome! Thank you.
15:01:11 <msporny> So, are you ready to scribe two simultaneous agendas at the same time?
15:01:18 <mhausenblas> sure :D
15:02:13 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:02:21 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
15:02:24 <Zakim> +??P30
15:02:28 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P30
15:02:28 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:02:29 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaa is me
15:02:29 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
15:02:36 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:36 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
15:02:46 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who is here?
15:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, msporny
15:02:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see msporny, RRSAgent, Zakim, mhausenblas
15:03:07 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:03:12 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
15:04:07 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:04:09 <benadida> zakim, who is on the call?
15:04:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ben_Adida, mhausenblas, msporny
15:06:01 <mhausenblas> Topic: Action Items
15:06:17 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/07/16-rdfa-minutes#ActionSummary
15:11:21 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
15:11:38 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:12:36 <mhausenblas> Topic: HTML5+RDFa next steps
15:12:49 <mhausenblas> Ben: Regarding xmlns: review status
15:13:38 <benadida> not for xmlns="..."
15:13:55 <benadida> <f:p>paragraph</f:p>
15:13:59 <mhausenblas> ... wondering (independent of RDFa) for HTML5 to embrace xmlns due to round-trip serialisation
15:14:47 <mhausenblas> benadida: what if someone starts with HTML5 and wants to add a widget on its own
15:15:06 <mhausenblas> ... so XMLNS would be the best way to achieve it
15:15:41 <mhausenblas> ... it is an extensibility mechanism which is very useful (cf. Facebook usage, etc.)
15:16:26 <mhausenblas> msporny: so, the discussion should be widened to 'how does HTML5 do round-trip serialisation'
15:16:54 <mhausenblas> ... second issue is then how to add widgets into DOM and have the browser preserve it
15:17:10 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:17:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:18:22 <mhausenblas> msporny: I got a bit of a push back from certain people re XMLNS
15:19:46 <mhausenblas> benadida: in any case, either a mechanism for distributed extensibility is very useful
15:20:17 <mhausenblas> ... either XMLNS is already available (as Doug S. pointed out) or it should be
15:21:45 <mhausenblas> msporny: desire to have the same markup for XHTML5 and HTML5
15:22:08 <mhausenblas> benadida: yeah, agree. we just say: if they want the extensibility, they can
15:23:28 <mhausenblas> msporny:  we need to make clear that XHTML5 is an important part of the HTML5
15:26:50 <mhausenblas> benadida: regarding XMLLiteral
15:27:05 <mhausenblas> msporny: I like Mark's proposal
15:27:16 <mhausenblas> ... that is, default behaviour should be changed to
15:27:35 <msporny> if we have this:
15:27:58 <msporny> <span property="foo:bar">this is <b>one</b>example</span>
15:28:12 <msporny> the literal that would be produced is this: "this is one example"
15:29:14 <msporny> that was Mark's proposal
15:29:31 <mhausenblas> benadida: so the default would be datatype=""
15:34:11 <benadida> PROPOSAL: for RDFa in HTML(4/5), an absence of @datatype defaults to plain literal, even when non-text-nodes are present in the DOM subtree.
15:34:42 <mhausenblas> Michael: note that TC11 needs to be reviewed again
15:35:19 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Ben to query the RDFa TF and ML to gather feedback
15:35:54 <mhausenblas> Ben: great progress today - if no other issues we move on
15:36:11 <msporny> http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-in-html-issues
15:37:20 <mhausenblas> Ben: test cases and implementation conformance
15:38:18 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #rdfa
15:38:50 <Ralph> [apologies, was buried in other tasks.  Am I needed at [the rest of] this telecon?]
15:40:14 <mhausenblas> Ben: Michael can you take over it
15:40:28 <mhausenblas> Michael: fine with me, but wanna check back with Shane
15:41:18 <mhausenblas> msporny: we should modularise the TC
15:41:48 <mhausenblas> Michael: yep, good idea (can be done via an additional language flag, that is property in the manifest)
15:42:45 <mhausenblas> benadida: would love to have a unified suite
15:43:17 <mhausenblas> Topic: @token and @profile
15:44:04 <mhausenblas> msporny: I see that deref stuff might go too far
15:45:32 <mhausenblas> msporny: what I don't see is how different vocs can be mixed in your proposal, Ben
15:47:03 <mhausenblas> benadida: however, Mark's precedence rule can yield to unexpected behaviour if the voc's term are added 
15:50:42 <mhausenblas> Michael: did we agree on the use case (the problem we're trying to solve) yet, on the Wiki, on the ML?
15:51:18 <mhausenblas> msporny: I agree. I'm thinking of a somewhat different UC as Ben just described
15:52:17 <mhausenblas> Michael: how about listing the different views on the UC? Ben, fancy taking an action on starting this discussion?
15:56:51 <mhausenblas> benadida: msporny, you thought we are only discussion @profile only in the head? 
15:57:04 <mhausenblas> ... my proposal is @profile everywhere
15:58:55 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:58:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:59:30 <mhausenblas> present+ Ben
15:59:36 <mhausenblas> present+ Manu
15:59:42 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
16:00:19 <benadida> @prefix or @namespace or @context
16:00:32 <mhausenblas> Michael: @vocab :)
16:05:03 <mhausenblas> benadida: interesting discussion, yes. I need to make my proposal clearer and define the UC
16:05:23 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
16:05:33 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
16:05:34 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
16:05:34 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:05:35 <mhausenblas> zakim, list attendees
16:05:36 <Zakim> Attendees were +3539149aaaa, msporny, mhausenblas, Ben_Adida
16:05:38 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is
16:05:46 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:05:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:05:50 <mhausenblas> zakim, bye
16:05:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
16:05:54 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, bye
16:05:54 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-actions.rdf :
16:05:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to query the RDFa TF and ML to gather feedback [1]
16:05:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-irc#T15-35-19