IRC log of sparql on 2009-07-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:54:14 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #sparql

13:54:14 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/21-sparql-irc

13:54:23 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #sparql

13:54:35 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, this will be SPARQL

13:54:35 [Zakim]

ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

13:55:27 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:55:35 [Zakim]

+ +3539149aaaa

13:55:45 [Zakim]

+ +7.441.173.70.aabb

13:55:45 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, aaaa is me

13:55:45 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres; got it

13:55:47 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

13:55:48 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres

13:55:56 [LukeWM_]

LukeWM_ has joined #sparql

13:55:56 [Zakim]

- +7.441.173.70.aabb

13:55:58 [swh_]

swh_ has joined #sparql

13:56:03 [Zakim]

+john-l

13:56:11 [ericP]

Zakim, please dail ericP-office

13:56:11 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'please dail ericP-office', ericP

13:56:25 [ericP]

Zakim, please dial ericP-office

13:56:26 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; the call is being made

13:56:26 [Zakim]

+EricP

13:56:29 [Zakim]

+ +7.441.173.70.aacc

13:56:55 [AxelPolleres]

who dialed in from +7 ?

13:57:02 [AndyS]

zakim, aacc is me

13:57:02 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

13:57:05 [Zakim]

+ +200000aadd

13:57:08 [AndyS]

It's the UK dialin

13:57:19 [Zakim]

+ +200000aaee

13:57:26 [alepas]

Zakim, /200000aadd is me

13:57:26 [Zakim]

sorry, alepas, I do not recognize a party named '/200000aadd'

13:57:34 [alepas]

Zakim, +200000aadd is me

13:57:34 [Zakim]

+alepas; got it

13:57:40 [AndyS]

but zakim usually prints ??P foo for it. I had to try twice to get in.

13:58:10 [Zakim]

- +200000aaee

13:58:23 [bglimm]

bglimm has joined #SPARQL

13:58:53 [SimonKJ]

SimonKJ has joined #sparql

13:59:05 [Zakim]

+kasei

13:59:09 [kasei]

Zakim, mute me

13:59:09 [Zakim]

kasei should now be muted

13:59:30 [Zakim]

+ +0186528aaff

13:59:48 [Zakim]

+ARonksley

13:59:56 [bglimm]

Zakim, +0186528aaff

13:59:56 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+0186528aaff', bglimm

14:00:06 [bglimm]

Zakim, +0186528aaff is bglimm

14:00:06 [Zakim]

+bglimm; got it

14:00:18 [SteveH]

can we find out which line were on?

14:00:19 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

14:00:19 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

14:00:28 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:00:28 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:00:29 [SteveH]

what's the code for putting your hand up

14:00:33 [Zakim]

+Ivan

14:00:40 [LukeWM_]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:40 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, AndyS, alepas, kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), ARonksley, Ivan

14:00:42 [AxelPolleres]

Who is ARonksley?

14:00:56 [Zakim]

+ +1.919.663.aagg

14:01:10 [kjetil_]

kjetil_ has joined #sparql

14:01:20 [SteveH]

Zakim, ARonksley is [Garlik]

14:01:20 [Zakim]

+[Garlik]; got it

14:01:27 [SimonKJ]

Zakim, +1.919.663.aagg is SimonKJ

14:01:28 [Zakim]

+SimonKJ; got it

14:01:30 [SteveH]

Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH LukeWM_

14:01:30 [Zakim]

+SteveH, LukeWM_; got it

14:01:31 [AxelPolleres]

ack ARonklsey

14:01:34 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:01:43 [SteveH]

q-

14:01:46 [SteveH]

q=

14:01:51 [SteveH]

q?

14:01:51 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:02:00 [SteveH]

queue=

14:02:05 [bglimm]

ack ARonksley

14:02:07 [SteveH]

queue=""

14:02:08 [Zakim]

+alepas.a

14:02:23 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:02:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, AndyS, alepas, kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), [Garlik], Ivan, SimonKJ, alepas.a

14:02:29 [Zakim]

[Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM_

14:02:45 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-21

14:03:02 [kjetil_]

Zakim, who is talking

14:03:03 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is talking', kjetil_

14:03:11 [SteveH]

scribenick SteveH

14:03:15 [kjetil_]

Zakim, who is talking?

14:03:16 [AxelPolleres]

scribe: Steve Harris

14:03:25 [Zakim]

kjetil_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (12%), alepas.a (6%), Ivan (4%)

14:03:37 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:03:39 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, alepas.a is kjetil

14:03:39 [Zakim]

+kjetil; got it

14:03:49 [kjetil_]

Zakim, alepas.a is me

14:03:49 [Zakim]

sorry, kjetil_, I do not recognize a party named 'alepas.a'

14:04:38 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14

14:04:45 [SteveH]

accept last minutes?

14:04:53 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14

14:05:11 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14

14:05:35 [Prateek]

Prateek has joined #sparql

14:05:53 [SteveH]

ericP to scribe next week, but at risk for next 2 meetings

14:06:11 [kjetil_]

Zakim: mute me

14:06:23 [SteveH]

greg to scribe is eric not available

14:06:32 [Zakim]

+Prateek

14:07:01 [SteveH]

phase 1 charter, finalised just now, should go next week

14:07:09 [SteveH]

ivan: ^^

14:07:26 [SteveH]

ivan: should take effect sept 1st

14:07:33 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:07:35 [ivan]

s/next week/this week/

14:07:45 [SteveH]

queue=

14:07:58 [SteveH]

vacation plans

14:08:27 [SteveH]

wiki page?

14:08:40 [SteveH]

ACTION: AxelPolleres to setup wiki page

14:08:40 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - AxelPolleres

14:09:10 [SteveH]

ACTION: Axel to setup wiki page to capture vacation times

14:09:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-61 - Setup wiki page to capture vacation times [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-28].

14:09:25 [SteveH]

Liassons

14:09:32 [chimezie]

chimezie has joined #sparql

14:09:33 [SteveH]

no news from OWL

14:09:35 [ericP]

nothing from HCLS

14:09:46 [SteveH]

nothing from XQuery

14:09:54 [SteveH]

nothing from RIF

14:10:07 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

14:10:07 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

14:10:09 [SteveH]

nothing from RDB2RDF

14:10:21 [SteveH]

Actions...

14:11:44 [SteveH]

SPARQL Update reviews were done

14:12:18 [SteveH]

ericP: I have implemented SPARUL a coulpe of times

14:12:32 [SteveH]

ericP: went a bit beyond the draft, with [some stuff couldn't hear]

14:12:38 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Eric to add review/experiences on SPARQL/update

14:12:38 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-62 - Add review/experiences on SPARQL/update [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].

14:13:33 [SteveH]

kjetil_: action 58 is done

14:14:34 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0061.html

14:15:49 [SimonKJ]

on #60, I didn't follow up on Kjetil's mail as I thought it, and Andy's response, summarized things well and I didn't feel I could add anything

14:15:56 [SteveH]

SPARQL/Update

14:16:07 [kjetil_]

SimonKJ: ok, that's fine

14:16:28 [SteveH]

AlexPassant: ok with the submission

14:16:48 [SteveH]

AlexPassant: INSERT two forms, feels that it would be easier for the end user to only have one

14:17:08 [SteveH]

AlexPassant: Add ing a MOVE keyword would be more convienient

14:17:23 [SteveH]

AlexPassant: [seomthing] would be better in the protocol than the language

14:17:37 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0069.html

14:18:06 [AlexPassant]

s/[seomthing]/SILENT

14:18:16 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0073.html

14:18:25 [SteveH]

LukeWM_, no strong opinions

14:18:36 [SteveH]

LukeWM_, thought INSERT/UPDATE would be better in protocol?

14:18:57 [SteveH]

LukeWM_, there are a bunch of verbs no clear when you can use WHERE etc.

14:19:05 [SteveH]

LukeWM_, not clear when you should use MODIFY

14:19:33 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: hoping for comments on that review

14:19:55 [SteveH]

ericP: people can rework grammars

14:20:10 [AxelPolleres]

Eric, pointer to grammar tool to extend change the grammar.

14:20:11 [SteveH]

AndyS: is it the same one in the submissions

14:20:21 [SteveH]

ericP: no, it's the same as the one in the comment

14:20:23 [ericP]

all of my comments are in http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/04/Comment

14:20:50 [SteveH]

sorry, those LukeWM_,'s should be :'s

14:21:07 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARUL_EGP?lang=perl&markup=html

14:21:18 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARUL?lang=perl&markup=html

14:21:33 [SteveH]

ericP, tweaked version of grammar

14:21:40 [SteveH]

ericP: tweaked version of grammar

14:21:54 [LukeWM_]

looks really useful, ericP

14:22:00 [SteveH]

ericP: can try tweaking the grammar and see if it still works

14:22:34 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0076.html

14:22:52 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: transactions, good to be clear upfront that transactions are out of scope

14:23:11 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: if youre a SQL dev. then INSERT+DEL is normal, but in a transaction

14:23:21 [AxelPolleres]

Simon, transactions missing for intuitive way to "MOVE"

14:23:24 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: having a move would let us make it atomic

14:23:26 [SteveH]

q+

14:23:36 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: same concerns about INSERT two forms

14:23:44 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: went from not liking to neutral

14:24:10 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: on UPDATE there is some wording around graphs existing or not, should eb consistent

14:24:21 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: add some wording to sections that dont mention

14:24:35 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: CLEAR needs some expansion, "does not remove graph"

14:24:38 [AxelPolleres]

SimonKJ: What happens on updates on non-existing graphs?

14:24:49 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: security seems to be out of band

14:25:00 [SteveH]

SimonKJ: will be important in the protocol

14:25:09 [AxelPolleres]

ack SteveH

14:25:18 [Zakim]

-kjetil

14:26:11 [AxelPolleres]

(steve pls summarize your comment on IRC I possible)

14:27:28 [kjetil_]

kjetil_ has joined #sparql

14:27:38 [SteveH]

AndyS: MOVE gives the impl. more scope to impose atomicity

14:27:41 [AxelPolleres]

Andy: It is more an implementation issue how to support atomicity.

14:28:08 [AndyS]

q+ to make a meta point

14:28:11 [Zakim]

+[Garlik.a]

14:28:15 [SteveH]

q-

14:28:26 [SimonKJ]

if SteveH could comment on email we can pick up the discussion there

14:28:48 [AndyS]

q-

14:28:55 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: suggest that we confirm to use SPARUL as the basis for SPARQL/Update

14:29:02 [ericP]

+1

14:29:08 [SteveH]

+1

14:29:09 [kjetil_]

+1

14:29:32 [ivan]

+1

14:29:39 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:29:42 [kasei]

+1

14:29:42 [SteveH]

what does "formally" mean in this case?

14:29:44 [AlexPassant]

+1

14:29:45 [bglimm]

+1

14:29:53 [AndyS]

+1

14:30:00 [chimezie]

+1

14:30:08 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: Base "SPARQL/Update" on the SPARQL/Update submission

14:30:12 [ivan]

=1

14:30:14 [ivan]

+1

14:30:16 [AxelPolleres]

+1

14:30:36 [SteveH]

no objections, no abstentions

14:30:41 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: Base "SPARQL/Update" on the SPARQL/Update submission

14:30:52 [AndyS]

I think there is a significant amount of work to be done (e.g. formal model, do graphs exists at all times, MOVE, ...)

14:31:23 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: Andy has some points to raise

14:31:44 [AxelPolleres]

AndyS: formal model missing

14:31:45 [kjetil_]

q+

14:31:49 [SteveH]

AndyS: there's no formal model of what's going on, have to create a structure

14:32:00 [AxelPolleres]

... emtpy graphs issue

14:32:03 [SteveH]

AndyS: do graphs exist without triples etc.

14:32:07 [ivan]

q+

14:32:17 [SteveH]

AndyS: can you mix queries and updates, how do they work together

14:32:30 [SteveH]

AndyS: something we would concoiusly decide not to do

14:32:43 [SteveH]

AndyS: ASK in update

14:32:50 [AxelPolleres]

... can you mix queries and updates in one operation?

14:32:50 [SteveH]

Subslect is maybe a better example

14:33:04 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres, WHEREs?

14:33:23 [SteveH]

AndyS: eg. only apply some update under these conditions

14:33:40 [SteveH]

AndyS: could have an ASK to fail some request depending on result

14:33:57 [ericP]

q?

14:34:12 [SteveH]

AndyS: there are issues like this that need to be covered, need to be sure were solving the right problem

14:34:16 [AxelPolleres]

ack kjetil

14:34:36 [SteveH]

kjetil_: some of the comments, I agree with, to MODIFY verb, do we need it?

14:34:41 [AxelPolleres]

(sounds like an issue to me)

14:34:58 [ericP]

AndyS, do your ASK { } INSERT {... } scenarios require a super-language anyways?

14:35:08 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:35:24 [AndyS]

EricP, you mean SPARQL/Scripting? :-)

14:35:30 [SteveH]

ivan: wondering whether the changes we plan on the QL, what effect will they have on the update lang

14:35:36 [kjetil_]

I also feel that DELETE is a bit verbose and could be simplified

14:35:52 [SteveH]

ivan: project expressions etc. do they affect the update language

14:35:52 [AxelPolleres]

also sounds like an issue.

14:35:55 [kjetil_]

I think it is quite close to a FP WD, but Last Call is further away

14:36:09 [AndyS]

+1 to kjetil_

14:36:14 [LukeWM_]

q+

14:36:23 [AxelPolleres]

ack ivan

14:36:24 [SteveH]

ivan: difficut to put as an issue

14:36:43 [SteveH]

ivan: whenever we discuss adding to query lang, whether it could affect update

14:36:48 [AxelPolleres]

ack LukeWM

14:37:07 [SteveH]

LukeWM_: I think ivan has a point, worried about inference, has someone else had expereince

14:37:28 [SteveH]

AndyS: it ruins your post conditions, you can delete triples but still there

14:37:41 [SteveH]

ivan: what's the equivalent of subquery?

14:38:25 [SteveH]

AndyS: not sure which way round, "can you have subselects inside" where, and "select which has an insert inside it" or "nested inserts and deletes"

14:38:32 [SteveH]

ivan: the second one

14:39:02 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: we need a draft on the table, in order to get interactions

14:39:16 [SteveH]

q?

14:39:45 [chimezie]

Zakim, unmute me

14:39:45 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted

14:39:49 [SteveH]

looking for volunteer

14:40:03 [SteveH]

to summarise issues that have come up

14:40:25 [LukeWM_]

+1 to wikipage

14:40:26 [SteveH]

ericP: what about a wiki page

14:40:28 [SteveH]

+1

14:41:09 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: start wikipage on Update issues

14:41:09 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - start

14:41:20 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Luke to start wikipage on Update issues

14:41:20 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-63 - Start wikipage on Update issues [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2009-07-28].

14:42:09 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: timeline towards FPWD, in charter we'll have tight timeline, should have FPWD by end of Sept.

14:42:22 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: in next week or so should identify editors

14:42:39 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: base on update submission to draft new document

14:43:02 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: all issues in draft in next few months, need reviewers etc.

14:43:30 [SteveH]

need to draft new features in sparql/query

14:43:33 [kjetil_]

could we have a straw poll on HTTP REST Update?

14:43:40 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Template:DesignQL

14:43:55 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: template to help draft extensions

14:44:07 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: should lead to draft of sparql/query

14:44:24 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: volunteers for features

14:44:44 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: people championed features, and filed out strawman

14:44:56 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: recruit as subsection editors

14:45:04 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: do people think that's a good approach

14:45:16 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:45:43 [SteveH]

might do subquery

14:45:49 [SteveH]

time permitting

14:45:54 [AndyS]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:SubSelect

14:46:30 [kjetil_]

I hope to write test cases if we continue our W3C membership

14:46:33 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: people responsible for those sections

14:47:19 [SteveH]

project expresions...

14:47:52 [SteveH]

aggregates...

14:48:02 [SteveH]

chimezie: I'll volunteer

14:48:12 [SteveH]

first strawman in 2 weeks

14:48:15 [SteveH]

negation...

14:48:26 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: lots of discussion already

14:48:30 [SteveH]

AndyS: will do negation

14:48:39 [SteveH]

ericP: I was about to

14:48:59 [SteveH]

ericP: project exp. tied closely with subselect

14:49:15 [SteveH]

ericP: it might improve my attitude

14:49:28 [SteveH]

ericP to do project expressions

14:49:44 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: plan is to have draft on wiki under templates in 2 weeks

14:49:46 [AxelPolleres]

q?

14:50:08 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: steve to draft subqueries in template

14:50:08 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-64 - Draft subqueries in template [on Steve Harris - due 2009-07-28].

14:50:20 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Eric to draft project expressions

14:50:20 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-65 - Draft project expressions [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].

14:50:31 [SteveH]

due date is wrong

14:50:32 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: chime to draft aggregates

14:50:32 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-66 - Draft aggregates [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2009-07-28].

14:50:50 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Andy to draft negation

14:50:50 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-67 - Draft negation [on Andy Seaborne - due 2009-07-28].

14:51:05 [SteveH]

ericP: what form of negation are we talking about?

14:51:11 [SteveH]

ivan: good question

14:51:19 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: that's not been decided

14:51:23 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

14:51:23 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

14:51:28 [SteveH]

ericP: would be decided by who drafted it

14:51:40 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: should we discuss it before we draft it out

14:52:15 [SteveH]

ericP: the working group understands the two problems fairly well, still at wiki stage, until we select one we can't put it into draft

14:52:29 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: can we reach agreement on that in the time remaining

14:52:57 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: wither draft something pointing out both options, how either would work, or...

14:53:09 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: but could put on agenda for next week

14:53:34 [SteveH]

ericP: I prefer to keep sketching in the place where it is now

14:53:41 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Template:DesignQL

14:53:45 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: actions are to put it into design templates

14:53:46 [Zakim]

-[Garlik.a]

14:54:04 [SteveH]

ericP: prefer not to put it there yet, better to discuss on wiki

14:54:20 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: all the drafts go into feature sketch places?

14:54:31 [SteveH]

ericP: good trackability

14:54:49 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: the idea of templates is to bring into existing spec structure

14:55:17 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: seems that negation is still a bit open, maybe good discussion for next week

14:55:27 [SteveH]

AndyS: what are you hoping to achieve

14:55:34 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: agreement on which way to go

14:55:45 [SteveH]

AndyS: email seemed to peter out

14:56:16 [SteveH]

AndyS: more support from people not dealing with theory for FILTER, waiting for discussion to complete

14:56:29 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: waiting for clarification

14:56:49 [SteveH]

ericP: AndyS was going to write down algebra for FILTER, ericP was going to work out MINUS approach

14:56:55 [SteveH]

q+

14:56:56 [AndyS]

Andy has done that.

14:57:14 [SteveH]

ericP will do algebra for FILTER approach

14:57:18 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Eric to sketch algebra for minus.

14:57:18 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-68 - Sketch algebra for minus. [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].

14:57:40 [SteveH]

AndyS: one of the important questions is are there any usecases where MINUS can express things that FILTER can't

14:57:47 [AxelPolleres]

AndyS: Are ther use cases where minus can express what unsaid can't?

14:57:52 [SteveH]

AndyS: what real usecases are we trying to address

14:58:17 [kjetil_]

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14:58:23 [SteveH]

ericP: I hear pushback from people who like monotonic from people who like NAF

14:58:57 [SteveH]

ericP: in terms of what you can express, if you do a set minus, where it's close to a relational set minus, then there are a case where !bounds have a particular effect

14:59:07 [AxelPolleres]

Eric, can you point us to the email with the example?

14:59:10 [Zakim]

+[Garlik.a]

14:59:11 [AndyS]

q+ to ask where eric heard that

14:59:12 [SteveH]

ericP: it comes down to what happens when you've got optionals that aren't bound on the outside

14:59:24 [SteveH]

ericP: in the general case their identical

14:59:35 [AxelPolleres]

ack SteveH

14:59:53 [LukeWM_]

I can scribe for steve ...

15:00:02 [ivan]

q+ a side issue for the minutes...

15:00:05 [AxelPolleres]

SteveH: people who don't care about theory mostly care about theory?

15:00:16 [AxelPolleres]

s/about theory/about syntax/

15:00:17 [ivan]

q+ to report a side issue before he has to go

15:00:35 [LukeWM_]

AndyS: can you back that up?

15:01:06 [kjetil_]

q+ to ask about completion of F&R

15:01:28 [SteveH]

AndyS: wanted to ask ericP where he was getting pushback from

15:01:37 [SteveH]

ericP: from experience of previous WG

15:01:49 [SteveH]

ericP: when we have UNSAID we had objections

15:01:57 [SteveH]

AndyS but we didn't have minus at that time

15:02:04 [SteveH]

AndyS: but we didn't have minus at that time

15:02:15 [SteveH]

ericP: it's easier to express that to them as it's this minus that

15:02:25 [SteveH]

ericP: I think it would be a more appealing algebra

15:02:51 [ivan]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2009JulSep/0013.html

15:02:52 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: ericP can you elaborate on the usecase differences

15:03:04 [SteveH]

ivan: charter call has just gone out

15:03:04 [AxelPolleres]

Charter call has gone out.

15:03:13 [SteveH]

ivan: get your AC reps to vote

15:03:18 [AxelPolleres]

q?

15:03:22 [ivan]

q-

15:03:25 [AndyS]

q-

15:03:27 [kjetil_]

when is the deadline for voting?

15:03:29 [kjetil_]

ack me

15:03:29 [Zakim]

kjetil_, you wanted to ask about completion of F&R

15:03:39 [Zakim]

-Ivan

15:03:39 [AxelPolleres]

ack kjetil

15:03:41 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:03:52 [SteveH]

kjetil_: completion of F&R

15:04:02 [SteveH]

kjetil_: do we have any plan for the completion

15:04:08 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: on agenda for next time

15:04:25 [SteveH]

kjetil_: I'm officialy on vacation next week, but will be there

15:04:35 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: time permitting features

15:05:15 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: will need to work independently, not spend much telecon time until we've addressed the required features

15:05:17 [kjetil_]

AxelPolleres: also, would be nice to have a straw-man poll on HTTP RESTful Update :-)

15:05:37 [kjetil_]

AxelPolleres, also, would be nice to have a straw-man poll on HTTP RESTful Update :-)

15:05:40 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: have a look at features and consider joining taskforces where you're interested

15:05:58 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres: RESTful updates, we have to discuss

15:06:01 [SteveH]

next week

15:06:13 [Zakim]

-SimonKJ

15:06:15 [Zakim]

-john-l

15:06:16 [Zakim]

-[Garlik]

15:06:18 [Zakim]

-[Garlik.a]

15:06:19 [Zakim]

-alepas

15:06:28 [Zakim]

-bglimm

15:06:51 [AndyS]

http://jena.sourceforge.net/ARQ/service.html

15:07:05 [Zakim]

-Prateek

15:07:40 [SteveH]

AxelPolleres, what needs to be done to make the minutes visible?

15:08:07 [LukeWM]

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15:10:22 [AndyS]

SERVICE <http://sparql.org/books>

15:10:22 [AndyS]

{ pattern }

15:10:56 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to update deadlines of design draft actions.

15:10:56 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-69 - Update deadlines of design draft actions. [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-28].

15:10:56 [AndyS]

FETCH <http://sparql.org/booksGraph>

15:11:02 [ivan]

ivan has left #sparql

15:11:06 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, list attendees

15:11:06 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been +3539149aaaa, +7.441.173.70.aabb, AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, +7.441.173.70.aacc, AndyS, +200000aaee, alepas, kasei, bglimm, Ivan,

15:11:09 [Zakim]

... SimonKJ, SteveH, LukeWM_, Chimezie_Ogbuji, kjetil, Prateek, [Garlik]

15:11:18 [AndyS]

FETCH ?g

15:11:59 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:11:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/21-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres

15:12:07 [AndyS]

http://seaborne.blogspot.com/2008/10/walking-web.html

15:12:11 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, make minutes public

15:12:11 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:12:30 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, make public minutes

15:12:30 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make public minutes ', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:13:13 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, make records public

15:14:35 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:14:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AxelPolleres, EricP, AndyS, kasei (muted)

15:17:26 [AndyS]

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15:18:29 [AxelPolleres]

I am running, bye

15:18:38 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

15:20:16 [Zakim]

-kasei

15:35:39 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:35:41 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:35:41 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:35:43 [Zakim]

Attendees were +3539149aaaa, +7.441.173.70.aabb, AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, +7.441.173.70.aacc, AndyS, +200000aaee, alepas, kasei, bglimm, Ivan, SimonKJ, SteveH, LukeWM_,

15:35:45 [Zakim]

... Chimezie_Ogbuji, kjetil, Prateek, [Garlik]

15:48:44 [AndyS]

AndyS has joined #sparql

15:56:39 [iv_an_ru]

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16:51:42 [LukeWM]

LukeWM has joined #sparql

17:04:25 [iv_an_ru]

iv_an_ru has joined #sparql

17:19:18 [Zakim]

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