IRC log of sparql on 2009-07-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:54:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:54:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/21-sparql-irc
13:54:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
13:54:35 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:54:35 [Zakim]
ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:55:27 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:55:35 [Zakim]
+ +3539149aaaa
13:55:45 [Zakim]
+ +7.441.173.70.aabb
13:55:45 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, aaaa is me
13:55:45 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres; got it
13:55:47 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
13:55:48 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres
13:55:56 [LukeWM_]
LukeWM_ has joined #sparql
13:55:56 [Zakim]
- +7.441.173.70.aabb
13:55:58 [swh_]
swh_ has joined #sparql
13:56:03 [Zakim]
+john-l
13:56:11 [ericP]
Zakim, please dail ericP-office
13:56:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please dail ericP-office', ericP
13:56:25 [ericP]
Zakim, please dial ericP-office
13:56:26 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
13:56:26 [Zakim]
+EricP
13:56:29 [Zakim]
+ +7.441.173.70.aacc
13:56:55 [AxelPolleres]
who dialed in from +7 ?
13:57:02 [AndyS]
zakim, aacc is me
13:57:02 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
13:57:05 [Zakim]
+ +200000aadd
13:57:08 [AndyS]
It's the UK dialin
13:57:19 [Zakim]
+ +200000aaee
13:57:26 [alepas]
Zakim, /200000aadd is me
13:57:26 [Zakim]
sorry, alepas, I do not recognize a party named '/200000aadd'
13:57:34 [alepas]
Zakim, +200000aadd is me
13:57:34 [Zakim]
+alepas; got it
13:57:40 [AndyS]
but zakim usually prints ??P foo for it. I had to try twice to get in.
13:58:10 [Zakim]
- +200000aaee
13:58:23 [bglimm]
bglimm has joined #SPARQL
13:58:53 [SimonKJ]
SimonKJ has joined #sparql
13:59:05 [Zakim]
+kasei
13:59:09 [kasei]
Zakim, mute me
13:59:09 [Zakim]
kasei should now be muted
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +0186528aaff
13:59:48 [Zakim]
+ARonksley
13:59:56 [bglimm]
Zakim, +0186528aaff
13:59:56 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+0186528aaff', bglimm
14:00:06 [bglimm]
Zakim, +0186528aaff is bglimm
14:00:06 [Zakim]
+bglimm; got it
14:00:18 [SteveH]
can we find out which line were on?
14:00:19 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:00:19 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:00:28 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:00:28 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:00:29 [SteveH]
what's the code for putting your hand up
14:00:33 [Zakim]
+Ivan
14:00:40 [LukeWM_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, AndyS, alepas, kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), ARonksley, Ivan
14:00:42 [AxelPolleres]
Who is ARonksley?
14:00:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.663.aagg
14:01:10 [kjetil_]
kjetil_ has joined #sparql
14:01:20 [SteveH]
Zakim, ARonksley is [Garlik]
14:01:20 [Zakim]
+[Garlik]; got it
14:01:27 [SimonKJ]
Zakim, +1.919.663.aagg is SimonKJ
14:01:28 [Zakim]
+SimonKJ; got it
14:01:30 [SteveH]
Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH LukeWM_
14:01:30 [Zakim]
+SteveH, LukeWM_; got it
14:01:31 [AxelPolleres]
ack ARonklsey
14:01:34 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:01:43 [SteveH]
q-
14:01:46 [SteveH]
q=
14:01:51 [SteveH]
q?
14:01:51 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:02:00 [SteveH]
queue=
14:02:05 [bglimm]
ack ARonksley
14:02:07 [SteveH]
queue=""
14:02:08 [Zakim]
+alepas.a
14:02:23 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, AndyS, alepas, kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), [Garlik], Ivan, SimonKJ, alepas.a
14:02:29 [Zakim]
[Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM_
14:02:45 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-21
14:03:02 [kjetil_]
Zakim, who is talking
14:03:03 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is talking', kjetil_
14:03:11 [SteveH]
scribenick SteveH
14:03:15 [kjetil_]
Zakim, who is talking?
14:03:16 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: Steve Harris
14:03:25 [Zakim]
kjetil_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (12%), alepas.a (6%), Ivan (4%)
14:03:37 [Zakim]
+Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:03:39 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, alepas.a is kjetil
14:03:39 [Zakim]
+kjetil; got it
14:03:49 [kjetil_]
Zakim, alepas.a is me
14:03:49 [Zakim]
sorry, kjetil_, I do not recognize a party named 'alepas.a'
14:04:38 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
14:04:45 [SteveH]
accept last minutes?
14:04:53 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
14:05:11 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
14:05:35 [Prateek]
Prateek has joined #sparql
14:05:53 [SteveH]
ericP to scribe next week, but at risk for next 2 meetings
14:06:11 [kjetil_]
Zakim: mute me
14:06:23 [SteveH]
greg to scribe is eric not available
14:06:32 [Zakim]
+Prateek
14:07:01 [SteveH]
phase 1 charter, finalised just now, should go next week
14:07:09 [SteveH]
ivan: ^^
14:07:26 [SteveH]
ivan: should take effect sept 1st
14:07:33 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:07:35 [ivan]
s/next week/this week/
14:07:45 [SteveH]
queue=
14:07:58 [SteveH]
vacation plans
14:08:27 [SteveH]
wiki page?
14:08:40 [SteveH]
ACTION: AxelPolleres to setup wiki page
14:08:40 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - AxelPolleres
14:09:10 [SteveH]
ACTION: Axel to setup wiki page to capture vacation times
14:09:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-61 - Setup wiki page to capture vacation times [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-28].
14:09:25 [SteveH]
Liassons
14:09:32 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
14:09:33 [SteveH]
no news from OWL
14:09:35 [ericP]
nothing from HCLS
14:09:46 [SteveH]
nothing from XQuery
14:09:54 [SteveH]
nothing from RIF
14:10:07 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:10:07 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:10:09 [SteveH]
nothing from RDB2RDF
14:10:21 [SteveH]
Actions...
14:11:44 [SteveH]
SPARQL Update reviews were done
14:12:18 [SteveH]
ericP: I have implemented SPARUL a coulpe of times
14:12:32 [SteveH]
ericP: went a bit beyond the draft, with [some stuff couldn't hear]
14:12:38 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Eric to add review/experiences on SPARQL/update
14:12:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-62 - Add review/experiences on SPARQL/update [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].
14:13:33 [SteveH]
kjetil_: action 58 is done
14:14:34 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0061.html
14:15:49 [SimonKJ]
on #60, I didn't follow up on Kjetil's mail as I thought it, and Andy's response, summarized things well and I didn't feel I could add anything
14:15:56 [SteveH]
SPARQL/Update
14:16:07 [kjetil_]
SimonKJ: ok, that's fine
14:16:28 [SteveH]
AlexPassant: ok with the submission
14:16:48 [SteveH]
AlexPassant: INSERT two forms, feels that it would be easier for the end user to only have one
14:17:08 [SteveH]
AlexPassant: Add ing a MOVE keyword would be more convienient
14:17:23 [SteveH]
AlexPassant: [seomthing] would be better in the protocol than the language
14:17:37 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0069.html
14:18:06 [AlexPassant]
s/[seomthing]/SILENT
14:18:16 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0073.html
14:18:25 [SteveH]
LukeWM_, no strong opinions
14:18:36 [SteveH]
LukeWM_, thought INSERT/UPDATE would be better in protocol?
14:18:57 [SteveH]
LukeWM_, there are a bunch of verbs no clear when you can use WHERE etc.
14:19:05 [SteveH]
LukeWM_, not clear when you should use MODIFY
14:19:33 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: hoping for comments on that review
14:19:55 [SteveH]
ericP: people can rework grammars
14:20:10 [AxelPolleres]
Eric, pointer to grammar tool to extend change the grammar.
14:20:11 [SteveH]
AndyS: is it the same one in the submissions
14:20:21 [SteveH]
ericP: no, it's the same as the one in the comment
14:20:23 [ericP]
all of my comments are in http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/04/Comment
14:20:50 [SteveH]
sorry, those LukeWM_,'s should be :'s
14:21:07 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARUL_EGP?lang=perl&markup=html
14:21:18 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARUL?lang=perl&markup=html
14:21:33 [SteveH]
ericP, tweaked version of grammar
14:21:40 [SteveH]
ericP: tweaked version of grammar
14:21:54 [LukeWM_]
looks really useful, ericP
14:22:00 [SteveH]
ericP: can try tweaking the grammar and see if it still works
14:22:34 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0076.html
14:22:52 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: transactions, good to be clear upfront that transactions are out of scope
14:23:11 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: if youre a SQL dev. then INSERT+DEL is normal, but in a transaction
14:23:21 [AxelPolleres]
Simon, transactions missing for intuitive way to "MOVE"
14:23:24 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: having a move would let us make it atomic
14:23:26 [SteveH]
q+
14:23:36 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: same concerns about INSERT two forms
14:23:44 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: went from not liking to neutral
14:24:10 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: on UPDATE there is some wording around graphs existing or not, should eb consistent
14:24:21 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: add some wording to sections that dont mention
14:24:35 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: CLEAR needs some expansion, "does not remove graph"
14:24:38 [AxelPolleres]
SimonKJ: What happens on updates on non-existing graphs?
14:24:49 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: security seems to be out of band
14:25:00 [SteveH]
SimonKJ: will be important in the protocol
14:25:09 [AxelPolleres]
ack SteveH
14:25:18 [Zakim]
-kjetil
14:26:11 [AxelPolleres]
(steve pls summarize your comment on IRC I possible)
14:27:28 [kjetil_]
kjetil_ has joined #sparql
14:27:38 [SteveH]
AndyS: MOVE gives the impl. more scope to impose atomicity
14:27:41 [AxelPolleres]
Andy: It is more an implementation issue how to support atomicity.
14:28:08 [AndyS]
q+ to make a meta point
14:28:11 [Zakim]
+[Garlik.a]
14:28:15 [SteveH]
q-
14:28:26 [SimonKJ]
if SteveH could comment on email we can pick up the discussion there
14:28:48 [AndyS]
q-
14:28:55 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: suggest that we confirm to use SPARUL as the basis for SPARQL/Update
14:29:02 [ericP]
+1
14:29:08 [SteveH]
+1
14:29:09 [kjetil_]
+1
14:29:32 [ivan]
+1
14:29:39 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:29:42 [kasei]
+1
14:29:42 [SteveH]
what does "formally" mean in this case?
14:29:44 [AlexPassant]
+1
14:29:45 [bglimm]
+1
14:29:53 [AndyS]
+1
14:30:00 [chimezie]
+1
14:30:08 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Base "SPARQL/Update" on the SPARQL/Update submission
14:30:12 [ivan]
=1
14:30:14 [ivan]
+1
14:30:16 [AxelPolleres]
+1
14:30:36 [SteveH]
no objections, no abstentions
14:30:41 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Base "SPARQL/Update" on the SPARQL/Update submission
14:30:52 [AndyS]
I think there is a significant amount of work to be done (e.g. formal model, do graphs exists at all times, MOVE, ...)
14:31:23 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: Andy has some points to raise
14:31:44 [AxelPolleres]
AndyS: formal model missing
14:31:45 [kjetil_]
q+
14:31:49 [SteveH]
AndyS: there's no formal model of what's going on, have to create a structure
14:32:00 [AxelPolleres]
... emtpy graphs issue
14:32:03 [SteveH]
AndyS: do graphs exist without triples etc.
14:32:07 [ivan]
q+
14:32:17 [SteveH]
AndyS: can you mix queries and updates, how do they work together
14:32:30 [SteveH]
AndyS: something we would concoiusly decide not to do
14:32:43 [SteveH]
AndyS: ASK in update
14:32:50 [AxelPolleres]
... can you mix queries and updates in one operation?
14:32:50 [SteveH]
Subslect is maybe a better example
14:33:04 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres, WHEREs?
14:33:23 [SteveH]
AndyS: eg. only apply some update under these conditions
14:33:40 [SteveH]
AndyS: could have an ASK to fail some request depending on result
14:33:57 [ericP]
q?
14:34:12 [SteveH]
AndyS: there are issues like this that need to be covered, need to be sure were solving the right problem
14:34:16 [AxelPolleres]
ack kjetil
14:34:36 [SteveH]
kjetil_: some of the comments, I agree with, to MODIFY verb, do we need it?
14:34:41 [AxelPolleres]
(sounds like an issue to me)
14:34:58 [ericP]
AndyS, do your ASK { } INSERT {... } scenarios require a super-language anyways?
14:35:08 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:35:24 [AndyS]
EricP, you mean SPARQL/Scripting? :-)
14:35:30 [SteveH]
ivan: wondering whether the changes we plan on the QL, what effect will they have on the update lang
14:35:36 [kjetil_]
I also feel that DELETE is a bit verbose and could be simplified
14:35:52 [SteveH]
ivan: project expressions etc. do they affect the update language
14:35:52 [AxelPolleres]
also sounds like an issue.
14:35:55 [kjetil_]
I think it is quite close to a FP WD, but Last Call is further away
14:36:09 [AndyS]
+1 to kjetil_
14:36:14 [LukeWM_]
q+
14:36:23 [AxelPolleres]
ack ivan
14:36:24 [SteveH]
ivan: difficut to put as an issue
14:36:43 [SteveH]
ivan: whenever we discuss adding to query lang, whether it could affect update
14:36:48 [AxelPolleres]
ack LukeWM
14:37:07 [SteveH]
LukeWM_: I think ivan has a point, worried about inference, has someone else had expereince
14:37:28 [SteveH]
AndyS: it ruins your post conditions, you can delete triples but still there
14:37:41 [SteveH]
ivan: what's the equivalent of subquery?
14:38:25 [SteveH]
AndyS: not sure which way round, "can you have subselects inside" where, and "select which has an insert inside it" or "nested inserts and deletes"
14:38:32 [SteveH]
ivan: the second one
14:39:02 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: we need a draft on the table, in order to get interactions
14:39:16 [SteveH]
q?
14:39:45 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:39:45 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
14:39:49 [SteveH]
looking for volunteer
14:40:03 [SteveH]
to summarise issues that have come up
14:40:25 [LukeWM_]
+1 to wikipage
14:40:26 [SteveH]
ericP: what about a wiki page
14:40:28 [SteveH]
+1
14:41:09 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: start wikipage on Update issues
14:41:09 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - start
14:41:20 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Luke to start wikipage on Update issues
14:41:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-63 - Start wikipage on Update issues [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2009-07-28].
14:42:09 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: timeline towards FPWD, in charter we'll have tight timeline, should have FPWD by end of Sept.
14:42:22 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: in next week or so should identify editors
14:42:39 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: base on update submission to draft new document
14:43:02 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: all issues in draft in next few months, need reviewers etc.
14:43:30 [SteveH]
need to draft new features in sparql/query
14:43:33 [kjetil_]
could we have a straw poll on HTTP REST Update?
14:43:40 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Template:DesignQL
14:43:55 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: template to help draft extensions
14:44:07 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: should lead to draft of sparql/query
14:44:24 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: volunteers for features
14:44:44 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: people championed features, and filed out strawman
14:44:56 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: recruit as subsection editors
14:45:04 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: do people think that's a good approach
14:45:16 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:45:43 [SteveH]
might do subquery
14:45:49 [SteveH]
time permitting
14:45:54 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:SubSelect
14:46:30 [kjetil_]
I hope to write test cases if we continue our W3C membership
14:46:33 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: people responsible for those sections
14:47:19 [SteveH]
project expresions...
14:47:52 [SteveH]
aggregates...
14:48:02 [SteveH]
chimezie: I'll volunteer
14:48:12 [SteveH]
first strawman in 2 weeks
14:48:15 [SteveH]
negation...
14:48:26 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: lots of discussion already
14:48:30 [SteveH]
AndyS: will do negation
14:48:39 [SteveH]
ericP: I was about to
14:48:59 [SteveH]
ericP: project exp. tied closely with subselect
14:49:15 [SteveH]
ericP: it might improve my attitude
14:49:28 [SteveH]
ericP to do project expressions
14:49:44 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: plan is to have draft on wiki under templates in 2 weeks
14:49:46 [AxelPolleres]
q?
14:50:08 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: steve to draft subqueries in template
14:50:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-64 - Draft subqueries in template [on Steve Harris - due 2009-07-28].
14:50:20 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Eric to draft project expressions
14:50:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-65 - Draft project expressions [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].
14:50:31 [SteveH]
due date is wrong
14:50:32 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: chime to draft aggregates
14:50:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-66 - Draft aggregates [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2009-07-28].
14:50:50 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Andy to draft negation
14:50:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-67 - Draft negation [on Andy Seaborne - due 2009-07-28].
14:51:05 [SteveH]
ericP: what form of negation are we talking about?
14:51:11 [SteveH]
ivan: good question
14:51:19 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: that's not been decided
14:51:23 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:51:23 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:51:28 [SteveH]
ericP: would be decided by who drafted it
14:51:40 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: should we discuss it before we draft it out
14:52:15 [SteveH]
ericP: the working group understands the two problems fairly well, still at wiki stage, until we select one we can't put it into draft
14:52:29 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: can we reach agreement on that in the time remaining
14:52:57 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: wither draft something pointing out both options, how either would work, or...
14:53:09 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: but could put on agenda for next week
14:53:34 [SteveH]
ericP: I prefer to keep sketching in the place where it is now
14:53:41 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Template:DesignQL
14:53:45 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: actions are to put it into design templates
14:53:46 [Zakim]
-[Garlik.a]
14:54:04 [SteveH]
ericP: prefer not to put it there yet, better to discuss on wiki
14:54:20 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: all the drafts go into feature sketch places?
14:54:31 [SteveH]
ericP: good trackability
14:54:49 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: the idea of templates is to bring into existing spec structure
14:55:17 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: seems that negation is still a bit open, maybe good discussion for next week
14:55:27 [SteveH]
AndyS: what are you hoping to achieve
14:55:34 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: agreement on which way to go
14:55:45 [SteveH]
AndyS: email seemed to peter out
14:56:16 [SteveH]
AndyS: more support from people not dealing with theory for FILTER, waiting for discussion to complete
14:56:29 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: waiting for clarification
14:56:49 [SteveH]
ericP: AndyS was going to write down algebra for FILTER, ericP was going to work out MINUS approach
14:56:55 [SteveH]
q+
14:56:56 [AndyS]
Andy has done that.
14:57:14 [SteveH]
ericP will do algebra for FILTER approach
14:57:18 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Eric to sketch algebra for minus.
14:57:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-68 - Sketch algebra for minus. [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].
14:57:40 [SteveH]
AndyS: one of the important questions is are there any usecases where MINUS can express things that FILTER can't
14:57:47 [AxelPolleres]
AndyS: Are ther use cases where minus can express what unsaid can't?
14:57:52 [SteveH]
AndyS: what real usecases are we trying to address
14:58:17 [kjetil_]
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14:58:23 [SteveH]
ericP: I hear pushback from people who like monotonic from people who like NAF
14:58:57 [SteveH]
ericP: in terms of what you can express, if you do a set minus, where it's close to a relational set minus, then there are a case where !bounds have a particular effect
14:59:07 [AxelPolleres]
Eric, can you point us to the email with the example?
14:59:10 [Zakim]
+[Garlik.a]
14:59:11 [AndyS]
q+ to ask where eric heard that
14:59:12 [SteveH]
ericP: it comes down to what happens when you've got optionals that aren't bound on the outside
14:59:24 [SteveH]
ericP: in the general case their identical
14:59:35 [AxelPolleres]
ack SteveH
14:59:53 [LukeWM_]
I can scribe for steve ...
15:00:02 [ivan]
q+ a side issue for the minutes...
15:00:05 [AxelPolleres]
SteveH: people who don't care about theory mostly care about theory?
15:00:16 [AxelPolleres]
s/about theory/about syntax/
15:00:17 [ivan]
q+ to report a side issue before he has to go
15:00:35 [LukeWM_]
AndyS: can you back that up?
15:01:06 [kjetil_]
q+ to ask about completion of F&R
15:01:28 [SteveH]
AndyS: wanted to ask ericP where he was getting pushback from
15:01:37 [SteveH]
ericP: from experience of previous WG
15:01:49 [SteveH]
ericP: when we have UNSAID we had objections
15:01:57 [SteveH]
AndyS but we didn't have minus at that time
15:02:04 [SteveH]
AndyS: but we didn't have minus at that time
15:02:15 [SteveH]
ericP: it's easier to express that to them as it's this minus that
15:02:25 [SteveH]
ericP: I think it would be a more appealing algebra
15:02:51 [ivan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2009JulSep/0013.html
15:02:52 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: ericP can you elaborate on the usecase differences
15:03:04 [SteveH]
ivan: charter call has just gone out
15:03:04 [AxelPolleres]
Charter call has gone out.
15:03:13 [SteveH]
ivan: get your AC reps to vote
15:03:18 [AxelPolleres]
q?
15:03:22 [ivan]
q-
15:03:25 [AndyS]
q-
15:03:27 [kjetil_]
when is the deadline for voting?
15:03:29 [kjetil_]
ack me
15:03:29 [Zakim]
kjetil_, you wanted to ask about completion of F&R
15:03:39 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:03:39 [AxelPolleres]
ack kjetil
15:03:41 [Zakim]
-Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:03:52 [SteveH]
kjetil_: completion of F&R
15:04:02 [SteveH]
kjetil_: do we have any plan for the completion
15:04:08 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: on agenda for next time
15:04:25 [SteveH]
kjetil_: I'm officialy on vacation next week, but will be there
15:04:35 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: time permitting features
15:05:15 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: will need to work independently, not spend much telecon time until we've addressed the required features
15:05:17 [kjetil_]
AxelPolleres: also, would be nice to have a straw-man poll on HTTP RESTful Update :-)
15:05:37 [kjetil_]
AxelPolleres, also, would be nice to have a straw-man poll on HTTP RESTful Update :-)
15:05:40 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: have a look at features and consider joining taskforces where you're interested
15:05:58 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres: RESTful updates, we have to discuss
15:06:01 [SteveH]
next week
15:06:13 [Zakim]
-SimonKJ
15:06:15 [Zakim]
-john-l
15:06:16 [Zakim]
-[Garlik]
15:06:18 [Zakim]
-[Garlik.a]
15:06:19 [Zakim]
-alepas
15:06:28 [Zakim]
-bglimm
15:06:51 [AndyS]
http://jena.sourceforge.net/ARQ/service.html
15:07:05 [Zakim]
-Prateek
15:07:40 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres, what needs to be done to make the minutes visible?
15:08:07 [LukeWM]
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15:10:22 [AndyS]
SERVICE <http://sparql.org/books>
15:10:22 [AndyS]
{ pattern }
15:10:56 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to update deadlines of design draft actions.
15:10:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-69 - Update deadlines of design draft actions. [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-28].
15:10:56 [AndyS]
FETCH <http://sparql.org/booksGraph>
15:11:02 [ivan]
ivan has left #sparql
15:11:06 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, list attendees
15:11:06 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +3539149aaaa, +7.441.173.70.aabb, AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, +7.441.173.70.aacc, AndyS, +200000aaee, alepas, kasei, bglimm, Ivan,
15:11:09 [Zakim]
... SimonKJ, SteveH, LukeWM_, Chimezie_Ogbuji, kjetil, Prateek, [Garlik]
15:11:18 [AndyS]
FETCH ?g
15:11:59 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/21-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres
15:12:07 [AndyS]
http://seaborne.blogspot.com/2008/10/walking-web.html
15:12:11 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make minutes public
15:12:11 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:12:30 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make public minutes
15:12:30 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make public minutes ', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:13:13 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
15:14:35 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:14:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AxelPolleres, EricP, AndyS, kasei (muted)
15:17:26 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
15:18:29 [AxelPolleres]
I am running, bye
15:18:38 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
15:20:16 [Zakim]
-kasei
15:35:39 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:35:41 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:35:41 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:35:43 [Zakim]
Attendees were +3539149aaaa, +7.441.173.70.aabb, AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, +7.441.173.70.aacc, AndyS, +200000aaee, alepas, kasei, bglimm, Ivan, SimonKJ, SteveH, LukeWM_,
15:35:45 [Zakim]
... Chimezie_Ogbuji, kjetil, Prateek, [Garlik]
15:48:44 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
15:56:39 [iv_an_ru]
iv_an_ru has joined #sparql
16:51:42 [LukeWM]
LukeWM has joined #sparql
17:04:25 [iv_an_ru]
iv_an_ru has joined #sparql
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17:31:10 [SteveH]
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