18:58:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #core
18:58:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-irc
18:58:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #core
18:58:32 <aphillip> zakim, this will be I18N
18:58:32 <Zakim> ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
18:58:40 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
18:58:53 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization WG Teleconference
18:58:58 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
18:59:03 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
18:59:08 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
18:59:29 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2009Jul/0014.html
18:59:35 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
18:59:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:01:06 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #core
19:01:14 <r12a> r12a has joined #core
19:01:17 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has now started
19:01:23 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #core
19:01:24 <Zakim> +aphillip
19:01:49 <Zakim> +??P1
19:02:00 <dchiba> dchiba has joined #core
19:02:04 <r12a> zakim, dial richard-home
19:02:04 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
19:02:06 <Zakim> +Richard
19:02:24 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
19:02:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip, ??P1, Richard
19:02:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see dchiba, fsasaki, r12a, YvesS, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, andrewc
19:02:29 <Zakim> + +1.303.945.aaaa
19:02:40 <r12a> zakim, P1 is Andrew
19:02:40 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
19:02:46 <Zakim> +??P3
19:02:52 <r12a> zakim, ??P1 is Yves
19:02:52 <Zakim> +Yves; got it
19:03:02 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
19:03:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip, Yves, Richard, +1.303.945.aaaa, Felix (muted)
19:03:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see dchiba, fsasaki, r12a, YvesS, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, andrewc
19:03:06 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
19:03:19 <r12a> zakim, Yves is AndrewC
19:03:19 <Zakim> +AndrewC; got it
19:03:38 <r12a> zakim, +1.303 is Yves
19:03:38 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named '+1.303'
19:03:44 <r12a> zakim, 1.303 is Yves
19:03:44 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named '1.303'
19:04:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:04:35 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
19:04:48 <aphillip> Richard: respond on our behalf to CSS on ruby issue 
19:04:57 <aphillip> not yet
19:05:06 <aphillip> Addison: convert widgets comments to a table and forward to webapps@ 
19:05:18 <aphillip> addison: set up document edit transition with dan for ws-i18n 
19:05:32 <aphillip> richard: ask IanJ if we can publish charreq as a historical Note 
19:05:41 <aphillip> not yet
19:05:53 <aphillip> richard: look at framework for i18n guidelines and suggest actions to take on document 
19:06:02 <aphillip> on agenda
19:06:10 <aphillip> ichard: publish qa-bidi-unicode-controls 
19:06:19 <aphillip> s/^ichard/richard/
19:06:26 <aphillip> DONE
19:06:34 <aphillip> richard: ready bp-html-bidi for publication, announce a review, and publish for review 
19:06:40 <aphillip> DONE
19:06:54 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
19:07:31 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/list-html-css#direction
19:07:32 <aphillip> richard: working on test suite, particulary on text direction
19:07:37 <aphillip> ... at link above
19:08:15 <aphillip> ... can run in four mode
19:08:23 <aphillip> ... also added section on vertical text
19:08:28 <aphillip> ... need more of those
19:09:02 <aphillip> ... xhtml 1.1 still works without need for css, even though served as xml
19:09:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:09:49 <aphillip> Topic: What to do with Framework Document for i18n Guidelines 1.0
19:09:57 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-guide-framework/
19:10:07 <aphillip> I propose that we leave as a Working Draft and set the metadata that will be available on the w3c beta site to say that this is obsolete-retired.  It will then appear under Obsolete Specifications at http://beta.w3.org/standards/techs/i18n (and only on that page).
19:10:24 <aphillip> richard: had a look at this... way out of date
19:10:32 <aphillip> ... doesn't make sense to work on it any more
19:10:48 <aphillip> ... would be weird since it the ideas captured are out of date
19:11:01 <aphillip> ... spoke to IanJ and he suggested we leave it as-is
19:11:04 <r12a> http://beta.w3.org/standards/techs/i18n
19:11:10 <aphillip> ... and set metadata on beta site (above link)
19:11:17 <aphillip> ... to make it obsolete/retired
19:11:23 <aphillip> ... or say it is superseded
19:11:36 <aphillip> ... but then we need something to supercede it with
19:11:56 <aphillip> ... so propose: leave as WD and mark as retired
19:12:20 <aphillip> chair: anyone object to publishing as retired WD
19:12:25 <aphillip> ?
19:12:35 <aphillip> no objections
19:13:01 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: publish i18n-guide-frameword as (retired, obsolete) WD
19:13:32 <aphillip> Topic: Widgets responses
19:14:00 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2009JulSep/0019.html
19:14:14 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0907-widgets-pc/
19:15:32 <aphillip> addison: note their concern about ITS, our responses
19:15:43 <aphillip> richard: possibly <widget> element should have dir?
19:16:09 <aphillip> ... some confusion about scope of 'dir'
19:16:30 <aphillip> ... they are talking about support for ITS, when they should talk about bidi support in widget packaging
19:18:07 <fsasaki> q+
19:18:25 <aphillip> ack
19:18:25 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2009JulSep/0028.html
19:19:13 <aphillip> felix: marcos happier to have dir without its namespace
19:19:18 <aphillip> ... can we porpose that?
19:19:52 <aphillip> addison: yes, can do that
19:20:16 <aphillip> felix: could also map from their namespace to the its rules
19:20:25 <aphillip> ... want to avoid control characters
19:20:39 <aphillip> yves: part of response is still weird
19:29:37 <aphillip> propose putting it on <widget> and removing its namespace?
19:30:15 <fsasaki> +1
19:30:17 <aphillip> any objections?
19:31:44 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Bp_spec_bidi
19:33:23 <aphillip> addison: good start... wants to be more than just a BP?
19:33:57 <aphillip> ... some in xml BP from ITS
19:34:09 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/publications
19:34:31 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/
19:34:51 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#DevDir
19:35:19 <aphillip> ... not so much in UTR#20
19:36:13 <aphillip> richard: needs some rationales, etc.
19:36:31 <aphillip> ... very  bare-bones at moment, so please send comments or comment in wiki
19:37:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:39:00 <aphillip> Topic: Charmod
19:39:04 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Charmod_norm
19:39:09 <aphillip> richard: charmodnorm wiki available
19:39:17 <aphillip> ... (link above)
19:39:29 <aphillip> ... conformance criteria listed in first section
19:39:40 <aphillip> ... and then have a new section for writing enw conformance criteria
19:39:45 <aphillip> s/enw/new/
19:39:58 <aphillip> ... put proposals in wiki or send via email
19:40:05 <aphillip> ... have thought off-and-on about it
19:40:16 <aphillip> ... gonna have to go back to CSS with late normalization
19:43:26 <aphillip> addison: concerned that we've already lost that battle
19:43:38 <aphillip> richard: clarify position and state it
19:43:44 <aphillip> ... how far to push?
19:44:11 <aphillip> andrew: how far to push vs. what can we do?
19:44:30 <aphillip> ... put together BP for what is broken, what developers have to do, etc.
19:45:08 <aphillip> ... may be no point pushing it, but they might react to "css is broken, do this to work around"
19:50:40 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
19:51:27 <aphillip> richard: changed the write up about internationalization
19:51:52 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2009Jul/0012.html
19:52:02 <r12a> http://beta.w3.org/standards/webdesign/i18n
19:52:34 <aphillip> typo: This is widely used abbreviation (should have 'a' in there)
19:53:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:53:51 <Zakim> -dchiba
19:53:52 <Zakim> -aphillip
19:53:52 <Zakim> -YvesS
19:53:53 <Zakim> -Felix
19:53:53 <Zakim> -AndrewC
19:54:04 <Zakim> -Richard
19:54:06 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has ended
19:54:07 <Zakim> Attendees were aphillip, Richard, +1.303.945.aaaa, Felix, [Oracle], AndrewC, YvesS, dchiba
20:19:29 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
20:19:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:19:34 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
20:19:34 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-actions.rdf :
20:19:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: publish i18n-guide-frameword as (retired, obsolete) WD [1]
20:19:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-core-irc#T19-13-01
20:19:38 <aphillip> zakim, bye
20:19:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #core