IRC log of ws-ra on 2009-07-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:08:06 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
19:08:08 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:08:08 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:08:10 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
19:08:11 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:08:11 [trackbot]
Date: 14 July 2009
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WS_WSRA()3:30PM has now started
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+ +0207827aaaa
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+ +1.571.262.aabb
19:29:25 [Paul]
Zakim, aaaa is Paul
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+Paul; got it
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+ +0759029aacc
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trackbot, start telecon
19:30:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:30:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:30:16 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:30:17 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:30:17 [trackbot]
Date: 14 July 2009
19:30:24 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.970.aadd
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19:30:43 [Zakim]
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19:30:59 [Bob]
19:31:02 [Zakim]
19:31:07 [Bob]
chair: Bob Freund
19:31:48 [Zakim]
19:32:06 [dug]
I can't get to ANY of the issues - the web site is blocking me
19:32:12 [Zakim]
19:32:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.642.aaee
19:32:57 [Zakim]
19:33:29 [Sreed]
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19:35:51 [Bob]
scribe: Sreedhara Narayanaswamy
19:36:00 [Bob]
scribenick: Sreed
19:36:37 [DaveS]
Note to chair: Bob I will need to go mobile about half way through the call, but will stay on as long as I have connectivity.
19:36:42 [Ram]
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19:36:50 [Sreed]
Bob: Posted agend is it acceptable
19:37:23 [asir]
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19:37:54 [Sreed]
Bob: Any objects in accepting the Minutes of 7th July
19:38:53 [Bob]
Topic: Team 6401
19:40:14 [Sreed]
Gil: Non functional reqs specific to 6401
19:40:53 [dug]
how can I tell?
19:41:13 [gpilz]
D. Support Migration It should facilitate a migration path of eliminating the offending outbound operations in existing web service implementations.
19:41:15 [dug]
is there a cmd to show the hosts my msg hits?
19:41:19 [dug]
on windows
19:41:37 [Sreed]
Bob: Migration no functional improvements & changes are pemissible
19:41:41 [Yves]
19:41:42 [gpilz]
19:41:57 [Bob]
ack gpi
19:42:02 [dug]
19:42:12 [dug]
19:43:13 [Sreed]
gpliz: speicifc to as how the notifications would look like, a particular of construction of WS Eventing
19:43:47 [Wu]
19:44:10 [Yves]
dug, it should be cleared now
19:44:12 [Sreed]
gpliz: Other implementations related to migration
19:44:21 [li]
19:44:28 [dug]
ahhh, I feel so much better!!! thanks a ton Yves!!!!!!!
19:44:43 [Bob]
s/functional/functional take-aways
19:44:51 [dug]
19:44:52 [Sreed]
Bob: Particular to older specs what is the point in the migration path
19:44:56 [Bob]
ack li
19:45:53 [Sreed]
Li: Migration web services WSDL out bound operations 6401 is trying to develop solution for out bound operations WS Eventing will propose solution
19:46:44 [Sreed]
Li: If these web services spec is this current will allow to migrate specific to out bound operations
19:47:02 [Sreed]
Bob: Are you suggesting existing implementations migrated without code change
19:48:02 [Sreed]
Li: Web services specification from other standard - in these WSDL the out bound operations. These WSDL specs to be BP compliant
19:48:35 [Sreed]
Li: Migrate from un-compatible state to compatilble state
19:48:36 [Bob]
ack wu
19:48:44 [Bob]
ack dug
19:48:52 [Wu]
19:49:10 [Bob]
ack qu
19:49:12 [Sreed]
Dug: Previous F2F discussed in migration doc need to address this
19:49:18 [Bob]
ack wu
19:49:40 [gpilz]
19:50:09 [gpilz]
19:50:09 [Sreed]
Bob: Other specs will not be BP compliant?
19:51:13 [gpilz]
19:51:39 [Bob]
ack gpi
19:51:43 [Sreed]
Wu: it should be relatively to change the BP compliance as required
19:51:46 [Bob]
ack gp
19:52:17 [dug]
what's the point of this discussion? we're all agreed it not going into the spec so what are we arguing about?
19:52:51 [dug]
each company will figure out how much of a migration process there is for each feature - vote (make proposals) appropriately
19:52:55 [Sreed]
gpilz: Alternative proposal disucssing with the working groups. Reqs should be relatively easy to migrate
19:53:47 [Sreed]
gpilz: Migration chosen in particular specs that been discussing using the WS Eventing
19:53:52 [Wu]
19:54:39 [Sreed]
Bob: Migration path information in the document Geoff did this. Why is there further requirement on migration?
19:55:32 [Sreed]
Wu: Solution we developed presented other web services vendor to compse with us - particular requirement
19:55:58 [Bob]
ack wu
19:56:04 [Sreed]
Bob: Providing the information (paragraph) related to this
19:56:19 [Sreed]
Wu: Can provide this paragraph
19:56:40 [Geoff]
19:57:03 [dug]
on firm mud
19:57:11 [Sreed]
ACTION: Wu will work on information related to the migration (paragraph)
19:57:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-82 - Will work on information related to the migration (paragraph) [on wu chou - due 2009-07-21].
19:58:42 [Sreed]
Geoff: We need Wu & Gpliz to do with the specifications related to this
19:58:42 [Bob]
ack geo
19:59:26 [Sreed]
Bob: New issue Issue-7088
20:00:39 [Sreed]
Bob: Need to have the information related to 7088 before the F2F
20:01:23 [Sreed]
Bob: We have working document then we can close 7088 - also issues can be opened to this
20:01:44 [DaveS]
20:01:52 [Sreed]
Bob: Issue-6720
20:02:12 [Sreed]
20:02:23 [Bob]
ack dave
20:03:00 [Sreed]
Bob: We had a proposal for the 6720
20:03:02 [dug]
20:03:28 [Geoff]
20:04:11 [Sreed]
Ashok: checking in bugzilla
20:05:09 [gpilz]
let's get drunk and behead some royalty!
20:05:44 [Sreed]
Ashok: Problem was we didnt know exactly second paragraph any document XML Schema: Structures], [XML Schema: ]
20:07:04 [Sreed]
Dug: support transfer
20:07:47 [asir]
20:07:51 [Sreed]
Ashok: will get the XML or policy
20:07:57 [asir]
20:08:32 [Sreed]
Dug: Meta section identifier attribute
20:08:58 [Bob]
ack geo
20:09:14 [Sreed]
Geoff: I don't get what is going on in this
20:09:36 [dug]
20:09:58 [Sreed]
Geoff: Get operation can return many things including multiple documents interms of Dug was saying it is really not correct
20:10:00 [Tom_Rutt]
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20:10:41 [Sreed]
Geoff: Get request single representation of the spec any metadata can return policy, not the get metadata itself
20:10:54 [Sreed]
Geoff: As what we are arguing in this
20:11:54 [Sreed]
Ashok: Original question spec can get all of these things
20:12:49 [Sreed]
Geoff: What is actually get is the meta data resource may return any of those - metadata resource many things meta data elements itselt
20:13:17 [Bob]
ack dug
20:14:15 [Sreed]
Dug: Meta you get back could be next meta data element
20:14:30 [asir]
20:15:25 [Bob]
ack asir
20:15:30 [Sreed]
Dug: different data comming back so what I wrote is correct
20:15:58 [Sreed]
Asir: It is confusing
20:16:06 [dug]
20:16:31 [dug]
Asir you're going too far
20:16:50 [Bob]
ack dug
20:17:10 [Sre]
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20:17:35 [asir]
q+ to point out that the term 'dialect' is overloaded in this conversation
20:17:50 [Sreed]
Dug: Single meta data unit with particular identifier
20:18:01 [Bob]
ack asir
20:18:01 [Zakim]
asir, you wanted to point out that the term 'dialect' is overloaded in this conversation
20:18:21 [Sreed]
Asir: Confusing conversation word dialect
20:18:51 [Sreed]
Dug: Using the word dialect - modifying
20:19:05 [Sreed]
Asir: particular statement is not correct
20:20:02 [Sreed]
Asir: Why more than one dialect
20:20:11 [Sreed]
Dug: One queue name
20:20:35 [Sreed]
Asir: I agree metadata queue name it can have children can have more metadata section
20:20:46 [Sreed]
Dug: Meta data wrapper
20:20:57 [Sreed]
Asir: confusing the terminology
20:21:18 [Sreed]
Bob: Asir suggest alternative text
20:21:57 [Sreed]
Ashok: Not completely I didn't now the intent as some clarification required
20:22:30 [Sreed]
Asir: It has the variable as wants to return not sure about specific information to put forward
20:22:55 [Sreed]
Ashok: One metadata section which can different dialects which we need to spellout this
20:23:11 [Sreed]
Asir: I understand & can work out on this
20:23:28 [Sreed]
Bob: Asir & Ashok will produce alternative text
20:24:23 [dug]
20:24:26 [asir]
we signed up for clarification text
20:24:51 [Sreed]
ACTION: Asir & Ashok needs to work on the text
20:24:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-83 - & Ashok needs to work on the text [on Asir Vedamuthu - due 2009-07-21].
20:25:12 [dug]
I'd like 6680 added to the agenda then - sorry I misread the #'s
20:25:13 [Bob]
ack dug
20:25:20 [dug]
6680 should be a no-brainer
20:25:36 [dug]
ie. close w/no action
20:25:41 [Bob]
topic: 6803
20:26:05 [Sreed]
20:28:18 [Sreed]
Geoff: Discussion to take place WS Fragment, some time needs to have discussions what we need to do
20:28:29 [Sreed]
Geoff: Is any issue related to this
20:30:32 [Ashok]
Bob: Recoomenbd closing 6803 w/o prejudice
20:30:33 [dug]
20:30:34 [dug]
20:30:58 [Ashok]
No objection
20:31:52 [Ashok]
Bob: Can we dscuss 6680?
20:32:12 [Ashok]
Dug: Strictly editorial. Opened by Gil
20:32:34 [Ashok]
... no longer applies. We shd close
20:33:01 [Ashok]
Bob: Any objection to close 6680 woth no action
20:33:11 [Ashok]
Geoff: I need a minute
20:33:42 [Ashok]
... ok no objection to closing
20:33:48 [Ashok]
Gil: No objection
20:33:50 [Geoff]
20:33:57 [dug]
20:34:34 [Ashok]
RESOLUTion: Issue 6680 closed with no action.
20:34:54 [Bob]
ack geo
20:35:31 [Ashok]
Geoff: We would like option to open a related issue
20:35:41 [dug]
When the Delivery Format feature is engaged the formatting of the going events occurs after any filtering.
20:36:05 [Ashok]
Bob: Yes. That's what I meant by 'close with no prejudice'
20:36:28 [Bob]
s/issue/issue related to or subsequent to 6803
20:36:33 [Ashok]
Dug: Topic: 6980
20:37:02 [Ashok]
Dug: Explains issue
20:37:04 [Geoff]
20:37:21 [Bob]
ack geo
20:37:55 [dug]
not Body, its the Event XML
20:37:59 [dug]
20:38:34 [Ashok]
Geoff: Implication is if we only filter over the content and if we have a header that influences the body we have a problem
20:38:51 [Ashok]
... this is possible
20:39:10 [Wu]
20:39:15 [gpilz]
20:39:15 [Bob]
ack dug
20:39:27 [Ashok]
... don't want to rule out something that may be impt for someone
20:39:39 [Ashok]
Dug: We are filtering on event XML
20:40:47 [Ashok]
... if they want to filter on envelope they need a different mechanism
20:41:24 [Bob]
ack [Micro
20:41:31 [Bob]
ack wu
20:41:42 [li]
20:42:00 [Ashok]
Wu: This is good if it does not disrupt existing apps
20:42:29 [Bob]
ack gpi
20:42:37 [Ashok]
... we shd double-check apps
20:42:56 [dug]
bob - I can answer that
20:43:04 [Ashok]
Gil: What is 'raw eveny XML'? Does it incclude action URIs
20:43:26 [Ashok]
20:43:41 [Ashok]
Dug: Does not include action URIs
20:43:44 [Bob]
ack li
20:44:13 [dug]
Actually, ws-e says: Context Node: the SOAP Envelope containing the notification.
20:44:19 [Ashok]
Li: Xpath filtering is missing the context
20:44:35 [gpilz]
20:44:36 [dug]
20:44:46 [gpilz]
20:44:47 [dug]
20:44:49 [gpilz]
20:44:50 [Ashok]
... what if the msg has multiple parts
20:45:12 [Ashok]
Dug: There can only be 1 part
20:45:55 [Ashok]
... we may need a separate issue about the the shape of an event
20:47:08 [Ashok]
... filtering has to happen before the binding
20:47:34 [Ashok]
Li: If we have 2 parts we don't know which part is bound to body
20:47:49 [Ashok]
Bob: Do you need more time?
20:47:59 [Ashok]
... 1 weeks?
20:48:13 [dug]
+1 to gil
20:48:22 [Ashok]
Gil: The issue hat Li just raised is related to issue 6401
20:48:40 [Zakim]
- +0759029aacc
20:48:47 [Bob]
ack gpi
20:48:48 [Ashok]
20:49:13 [Tom_Rutt]
20:49:16 [Ashok]
... problem is how events are described
20:49:51 [Wu]
20:50:26 [Ashok]
... what do you do with a wrapped notification
20:50:49 [Bob]
ack tom
20:51:21 [Ashok]
... my proposal for 6401 and Dug's proposal for this issue meshes very well
20:51:37 [Bob]
ack wu
20:51:58 [Ashok]
Tom: I need a usecase why anyone would filetr on anything other than the first child
20:52:53 [Tom_Rutt]
ws bp requirments (both for rpc/lit and doc/lit) allow only one child of soap:body. I see no reason to filter on anything other than first child of soap body
20:53:25 [Ashok]
Bob: I don't hear a lot of disagreement but folks seems to want a bit more time. Let's revisit next week
20:53:54 [li]
one man's trash is another's gold
20:54:13 [dug]
20:54:37 [Ashok]
Bob: Proposes we deal with 6980 and then 6692a
20:55:06 [Ashok]
Dug: Could we get a concrete proposal for 6692a?
20:55:15 [Bob]
ack dug
20:55:39 [Ashok]
Geoff: You have talked abt 4 issues.
20:55:40 [dug]
LOL Geoff - you're a dreamer
20:55:58 [Ashok]
... I am working on d.
20:56:20 [Ashok]
a, b, c could be dealt with as separate issues
20:56:38 [dug]
20:56:56 [Bob]
ack dug
20:57:02 [dug]
20:57:06 [Ashok]
Bob: That's a good idea!
20:58:13 [gpilz]
bring me the blue pages!
20:58:32 [dug]
20:58:55 [Ashok]
Bob: We will await proposal
20:59:13 [Ashok]
Topic: 6421
20:59:23 [Ashok]
Dug: CNA?
20:59:47 [Ashok]
No objections heard
21:00:12 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: 6421 closed with no action
21:00:16 [Zakim]
21:00:17 [Zakim]
- +1.408.970.aadd
21:00:18 [Zakim]
21:00:18 [Zakim]
- +1.571.262.aabb
21:00:19 [Zakim]
21:00:20 [Zakim]
21:00:20 [Zakim]
21:00:21 [Zakim]
21:00:22 [Ashok]
21:00:23 [Zakim]
- +1.408.642.aaee
21:00:25 [Zakim]
21:00:26 [gpilz]
gpilz has left #ws-ra
21:00:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Yves
21:00:35 [Yves]
trackbot, end telcon
21:00:35 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:00:35 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been [Microsoft], +0207827aaaa, +1.571.262.aabb, Paul, +0759029aacc, +1.408.970.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, [IBM], Wu_Chou, Tom_Rutt, +1.408.642.aaee,
21:00:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:00:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
21:00:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:00:37 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
21:00:37 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Wu will work on information related to the migration (paragraph) [1]
21:00:37 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
21:00:37 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Asir & Ashok needs to work on the text [2]
21:00:37 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
21:00:38 [Zakim]
... Yves