12:55:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
12:55:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-irc
12:55:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:55:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
12:55:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
12:55:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
12:55:32 <trackbot> Date: 08 July 2009
12:56:02 <petef> zakim, who is on the phone?
12:56:02 <Zakim> I notice INC_SWXG()9:00AM has restarted
12:56:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
12:56:35 <AndreaP> zakim, code?
12:56:35 <Zakim> the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), AndreaP
12:57:05 <samcritchley> samcritchley has joined #swxg
12:57:13 <petef> Can somebody point me at a good zakim cheatsheet?
12:57:48 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot
12:57:55 <petef> Thanks
12:58:04 <rreck> rreck has joined #swxg
12:58:15 <tpa_> tpa_ has joined #swxg
12:58:28 <danbri> danbri has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jul/0038.html 
12:58:41 <petef> Zakim, who is here?
12:58:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
12:58:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see tpa_, rreck, samcritchley, RRSAgent, petef, lkagal, mattroweshow, melvster, AndreaP, jsalvachua, hhalpin, danbri, caribou, Adam, karl, tpa, mischat, tinkster,
12:58:47 <Zakim> ... AlexPassant, CaptSolo, Zakim, trackbot, Cloud, dom
12:58:54 <mattroweshow> zakim is fail?
12:59:24 <DKA> DKA has joined #swxg
12:59:39 <rreck> yeah he didnt see me either
12:59:45 <Adam> scribe: Adam Boyet
12:59:57 <Adam> scribenick: Adam
13:00:03 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #swxg
13:00:27 <Adam> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html
13:00:43 <Adam> Regrets: Tim Anglade, Hakan, Cloud
13:02:07 <tinkster> Aha, my mobile has a "mute" option, so I don't need Zakim mute.
13:02:18 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 8 July 2009 as a true record
13:02:24 <AndreaP> +1
13:02:28 <DKA> +1
13:02:28 <Adam> +1
13:02:29 <rreck> +1
13:02:29 <petef> +1
13:02:33 <mattroweshow> +1
13:02:34 <tinkster> +1
13:02:36 <jsalvachua> +1
13:02:40 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-swxg-minutes.html
13:02:48 <mischat> +1
13:02:51 <jsalvachua> +1
13:02:52 <hhalpin> RESOLVED:  SWXG WG Weekly approved 8 July 2009 as a true record
13:03:06 <petef> Could everybody on the call please mute when not talking
13:03:08 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 15th July
13:03:14 <jsalvachua> +1
13:03:17 <AndreaP> +1
13:03:21 <Adam> +1
13:03:24 <hhalpin> danbri -can you scribe?
13:03:30 <hhalpin> DKA will chair next week.
13:03:33 <Adam> dka to chair next week
13:03:33 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #swxg
13:03:48 <hhalpin> 2. General Organization and Task Forces
13:03:55 <bblfish> hi
13:04:10 <Adam> hhalpin thought would be interesting to look at the social group wiki
13:04:22 <cperey> cperey has joined #swxg
13:04:28 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries
13:04:30 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:04:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
13:04:44 <hhalpin> hhalpin: thought would be interesting to look at the social group wiki
13:04:45 <Adam> ... to look at summaries of invited guests
13:04:59 <Adam> ... to see if someone would volunteer to summarize talk from last week
13:05:14 <hhalpin> volunteer??
13:05:24 <mischat> i can 
13:05:29 <hhalpin> Mischa, you'd be perfect!
13:05:36 <danbri> zakim, this is SWXG
13:05:36 <Zakim> danbri, this was already INC_SWXG()9:00AM
13:05:37 <Zakim> ok, danbri; that matches INC_SWXG()9:00AM
13:05:43 <mischat> mmm
13:05:44 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:05:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
13:05:53 <hhalpin> ACTION: Mischa to summarize josh and soren't talk
13:05:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Summarize josh and soren't talk [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2009-07-15].
13:06:03 <hhalpin> 3. User stories
13:06:08 <cperey> zakim, mute me
13:06:08 <Zakim> sorry, cperey, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
13:06:31 <tinkster> cperey, zakim is broken today.
13:06:37 <Adam> hhalpin: to summarize the invited guests in the wiki for future references
13:06:49 <hhalpin> Go for it Mischa!
13:06:50 <Adam> mischat: will hopefully complete by next week
13:07:07 <danbri> re Zakim - "Zakim-bot doesn't see callers - no know ETA" - from W3C systems team
13:07:11 <oshani> oshani has joined #swxg
13:07:12 <Adam> ... talked with josh about running terms through plagerism software
13:07:25 <hhalpin> that would be GREAT!!
13:07:35 <rreck> great idea to track changes on the terms and conditions
13:07:37 <Adam> ... and put them in version control and see how all the T&Cs change over time
13:07:37 <hhalpin> +1
13:07:42 <tinkster> sounds like it could be interesting to see the results of that.
13:07:55 <Adam> hhalpin: great idea, would be interesting to share on the final report 
13:08:24 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Sören to propose addition to the template for user stories for conditions
13:08:31 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #swxg
13:08:33 <Adam> cprey: soren and cprey exchanged emails on conditions of user stories
13:08:45 <Adam> ... he sent draft and exchanged comments over the weekend
13:08:48 <hhalpin> ACTION [CONTINUES]: tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand ours
13:08:48 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [CONTINUES]
13:08:56 <Adam> ... working on a final version
13:09:20 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION:  tinkster to document developer stories on wiki.
13:09:26 <tinkster> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Tracking_Sources
13:09:28 <Adam> hhalpin: tobey in luck with microblogging document tracking sources story
13:09:32 <tpa> tpa has joined #swxg
13:09:33 <hhalpin> [DONE] ACTION:  tinkster to document developer stories on wiki.
13:09:37 <tpa_> tpa_ has joined #swxg
13:09:38 <Adam> toby: shares link to tracking sources
13:09:50 <hhalpin> 4. Invited Guest Invitations
13:10:26 <danbri> tobyink, thanks for http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Tracking_Sources ! 
13:10:27 <Adam> cprey: update on invited guests ... would attempt to illicit input from mobile operator ... Sam ??? to come on july 22nd to answer a few questions
13:10:29 <danbri> looks good to me
13:10:32 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #swxg
13:10:34 <hhalpin> I think July 22nd works for Sam Crichtley
13:10:37 <cperey> Critchley
13:10:42 <Adam> ... introduce to his service and mention how he would like to see this evolve
13:10:50 <Adam> .... from gypsey 
13:10:50 <samcritchley> Yes, that's me
13:10:53 <samcritchley> :-)
13:10:56 <hhalpin> hello sam!
13:11:03 <hhalpin> Your on for the July 22nd.
13:11:04 <samcritchley> Hi!
13:11:08 <Adam> cprey: will change web page to the 22nd
13:11:15 <hhalpin> Send us any links you want us to read ahead of time.
13:11:26 <samcritchley> Will do
13:11:29 <PhilA2> q+ to talk about some possible future guests
13:11:40 <Adam> dka: reaching out to geo location working group and somebody from oslo companies with relation to the location sharing 
13:11:46 <Adam> ... probably be good for the next call
13:11:54 <danbri> re geolocation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pling/2009Jul/0005.html ... note the last call doc to review
13:11:54 <mischat> ACTION: Mischa to describe/implement a git repo of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
13:11:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Describe/implement a git repo of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2009-07-15].
13:11:54 <Adam> hhalpin: 15th is open for a speaker
13:12:10 <hhalpin> ACTION [CONTINUES] : hhalpin to contact eran to talk, also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple
13:12:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - [CONTINUES]
13:12:17 <Adam> hhalpin: have sent email to Aron about LRDD
13:12:20 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin to contact eran to talk, also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple
13:12:27 <cperey> I've updated the schedule to show that Sam will speak on July 22 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule
13:12:30 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets
13:12:37 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C.
13:12:43 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION:Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP
13:12:49 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION:DKA to invite Lars or Eric from Geolocation API to W3C Social Web XG for context comm call
13:12:56 <Adam> danbri: will ping people
13:13:00 <hhalpin> ack 
13:13:02 <hhalpin> Zakim, ack
13:13:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ack', hhalpin
13:13:08 <hhalpin> Zakim, ack PhilA2
13:13:08 <Zakim> I see PhilA on the speaker queue
13:13:15 <PhilA2> http://www.alpsp.org/ngen_public/article.asp?aid=73515
13:13:50 <Adam> PhilA: at conference with people talking about mobile web and other speakers that talked alot about social networking at a marketing tool
13:13:52 <PhilA2> http://thewayoftheweb.net/
13:14:04 <mischat> http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/
13:14:11 <Adam> ... shares page to Dan Thorton, works for radio
13:14:17 <PhilA2> Ros Lawler http://econsultancy.com/blog/2172-random-house-s-ros-lawler-on-widgets-and-web-2-0
13:14:26 <Adam> ... another speaker that stood out, see shared link
13:14:52 <Adam> ... either would be interesting to have as invited speaker with regard to well funded agencies are doing with social networking
13:15:06 <hhalpin> ACTION: PhilA2 to invite Ros to come to Social Web XG call.
13:15:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - PhilA2
13:15:15 <hhalpin> ACTION: PhilA to invite Ros to come to Social Web XG call.
13:15:15 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - PhilA
13:15:25 <mischat> PhilA2
13:15:43 <danbri> see http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests
13:15:44 <cperey> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule
13:15:49 <PhilA2> action: Phil_Archer to invite Ros lawler and/or Dan Thornton to tallk about marketing through social media
13:15:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Phil_Archer
13:16:07 <PhilA2> action: PhilA to invite Ros lawler and/or Dan Thornton to tallk about marketing through social media
13:16:07 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - PhilA
13:16:17 <PhilA2> action: PhilA2 to invite Ros lawler and/or Dan Thornton to tallk about marketing through social media
13:16:17 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - PhilA2
13:16:18 <hhalpin> 5. Business of Social Networks
13:16:22 <cperey> DKA
13:16:26 <cperey> Dan???
13:16:45 <danbri> q+ to ask DKA what - with biz hat - he'd look for in the final report 
13:17:36 <Adam> dka: cprey can you help share your thoughts about work to do around business side ? .... part of the work from the group needs to inform the community about the benefits about the open social web ecosystem
13:17:42 <danbri> q-
13:17:43 <Adam> ... as apposed to the wall garden approach
13:17:50 <Adam> ... that was my thinking
13:17:57 <PhilA2> q-
13:18:30 <Adam> cprey: dka recapped it very well ... wants work from group to have impact in a business context
13:18:55 <bblfish> cprey: is this the type of thing that is needed? http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed
13:18:58 <Adam> ... would like to describe some scenarios how a open social web could come about and in what ways could it be beneficial to the bottom line 
13:19:18 <oshani> not sure if this is really relevant -- but I see some interesting business related user stories here : http://www.primelife.eu/images/stories/deliverables/h5.1.1-policy_requirements-public.pdf 
13:19:39 <Adam> ... would benefit by hearing more from businesses on their concerns ... in what areas do businesses wish to see more standardization
13:19:56 <Adam> ... communication would be best to go both ways, us to listen to them
13:20:27 <Adam> dka: mentioned the idea of sharing the location information between mobile startups
13:20:59 <Adam> ... have somebody speak about how they're extending xmpp but at a business level if the ceo's got together and said it would be beneficial for them to share location information
13:21:05 <danbri> q+ to ask about oslo biz story
13:21:16 <Adam> ... its an interesting overlap of both business and technology
13:21:16 <hhalpin> http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/
13:21:22 <hhalpin> ack danbri
13:21:22 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask about oslo biz story
13:21:29 <tinkster> OSLO are a pretty mysterious bunch.
13:21:43 <DKA> OSLO: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-aims-to-break-down-mobile-social-network-barriers/
13:22:04 <MacTed> Zakim, who's on the call?
13:22:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
13:22:07 <danbri> so it's these guys, with xmpp etc? - http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/TechnologyChoices http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/
13:22:23 <Adam> hhalpin: one thing that could be missing from the use cases whats the best way to do data portability from a business perspective
13:22:42 <samcritchley> I think Aka-aki and Nulaz are in OSLO
13:22:53 <cperey> yes, I can confirm that
13:22:56 <samcritchley> couple of others too
13:23:14 <cperey> http://download.aka-aki.com/press/mitteilungen/EN/02232009_oslo_alliance.pdf
13:23:42 <Adam> ... to keep our work grounded to the businesses
13:24:37 <hhalpin> http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/
13:24:47 <Adam> ... there some mentions of the big social webs are sharing information
13:25:24 <bblfish> q+
13:25:30 <hhalpin> ack bblfish
13:26:11 <Adam> bblfish: think its good to look at little companies as well as the big companies ... activity can happen a lot faster typically at the smaller companies
13:26:14 <DKA> +1 to the importance of the "little companies."
13:26:26 <danbri> re opensocial and w3c, see recent Wookie/Widgets proposal in the Apache Foundation - http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser
13:26:35 <mattroweshow> +1 for the longtail
13:26:37 <danbri> action: danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg
13:26:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Circulate wookie proposal to the xg [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-07-15].
13:26:41 <Adam> hhalpin: from a w3c perspective want to make it easier to share data
13:27:12 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF
13:27:27 <hhalpin> 7. #  Portability Task Force
13:27:31 <hhalpin> 7. Portability Task Force
13:27:35 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF
13:28:21 <Adam> ??: ought to be clear if charter says not about creating new technology 
13:28:31 <hhalpin> Here's this sentence from the charter: "Our goal is to provide a forum through which collaborations relating to social web standards can be formed, and through which the results of practical standards-oriented collaborations can be reported and discussed."
13:28:51 <Adam> XX: think we should not invent new protocols, was my idea from the start
13:29:11 <hhalpin> s/XX/jsalvachua
13:29:17 <petef> Adam ?? == petef
13:29:17 <hhalpin> s/??/jsalvachua
13:29:30 <Adam> jsalvachua: w3c isn't necessarily about implementing new protocols
13:30:22 <Adam> hhalpin: charter is written in that way to share that the group wasn't necessarily about creating something new
13:30:31 <tinkster> The task force could always identify areas where it thinks new protocols are needed, and then people from the TF could work outside the TF and XG to create protocols that fit into those gaps.
13:30:49 <hhalpin> We can't prevent people from informally making things :)
13:31:03 <hhalpin> In fact, we want to informally for people to get together!!!
13:31:27 <Adam> danbri: if members of the group want to get together and invent things thats fine but be clear of what your doing and be transparent regarding patent policy
13:31:45 <Adam> jsalvachua: how can we start? with a statement of whats out there right now?
13:32:01 <Adam> ... to talk about new combinations
13:32:14 <Adam> petef: thats sounds good
13:32:23 <hhalpin> Zakim, q+
13:32:23 <Zakim> I see hhalpin on the speaker queue
13:32:33 <danbri> q?
13:32:41 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
13:32:44 <Adam> jsalvachua: ok, petef and I should start talking about this after summer when people are more available
13:32:56 <Adam> hhalpin: agree with overall sense of things
13:33:53 <Adam> ... but would like more detail ... would be great if this group was able to generate excitement about making portability and a practical plan to approach portability
13:34:05 <hhalpin> danbri - what's FOAF's role in this?
13:34:40 <Adam> jsalvachua: would like to have some sort of proof of concept of the ideas they are developing
13:36:06 <mischat> yes
13:36:07 <mattroweshow> +1
13:36:23 <hhalpin> I would also like to see mappings between OpenSocial, XFN, vCard, and PortableContacts to FOAF.
13:36:29 <hhalpin> With XML-based formats, done via GRDDL.
13:36:34 <cperey> I don't want to draw away from the useful discussion on data portability, but can we have a section in this Task Force which explains what might be business benefits of data portability?
13:36:38 <Adam> danbri: have something that guides people with OpenSocial, FOAF etc
13:36:39 <danbri> aside - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/interview_with_tim_berners-lee_part_1.php
13:36:47 <hhalpin> Might need Python to sort of move contacts in various formats.
13:36:51 <AlexPassant> what about mattroweshow work on mappings for social vocabularies ?
13:37:02 <jsalvachua> i now more a ruby guy  :)
13:37:07 <bblfish> q+
13:37:12 <hhalpin> I'm still in the dark ages of python or perl!
13:37:14 <Adam> cprey: would like to learn what the business benefits to the open data portability 
13:37:26 <Adam> ... maybe charging people when importing / exporting data
13:37:45 <danbri> hmm http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/Business+Case looks a bit work-in-progress
13:38:17 <tinkster> Business case: if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue.
13:38:46 <hhalpin> ack bblfish
13:38:51 <Adam> hhalpin: one case might be to have your smaller social site wanting to market about kite flying and them using information from Facebook .. have an open format for exchanging that data
13:38:55 <petef> and if you allow export of data you encourage users to try your service without fear of lockin or wasted effort
13:39:00 <cperey> Thanks for the link DanBri!! very confirming
13:39:02 <danbri> biz case of being able to accept open data formats is fairly no-brainer; biz case of unlocking user data is tougher ...
13:39:06 <cperey> of my suspicions
13:39:30 <hhalpin> It would be nice if these use-cases found their way into the use-case stories on the wiki - anyone up for that?
13:39:42 <Adam> bblfish: if companies want to start selling software to companies, the companies themselves need to be able to control their data
13:39:51 <Adam> ... and link to other sites that control their data
13:40:14 <Adam> q+
13:40:21 <hhalpin> ack Adam
13:40:24 <tinkster> s/if companies want to start selling software/if social networks want to start selling services/
13:40:25 <cperey> there are about 100+ companies who are already in teh business of business social networks
13:40:38 <danbri> http://eliasbizannes.com/blog/2009/04/data-portability-and-media-explaining-the-business-case/
13:40:43 <cperey> they are not interested in companies being able to export their data/leave
13:40:54 <bblfish> so my point was summarised here: http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed
13:41:14 <cperey> federated directories?
13:41:34 <hhalpin> adam: we've been talking mostly about use-cases involving marketing
13:41:36 <danbri> q+ re "code visits data vs data visits code" opensocial pitch
13:41:47 <hhalpin> adam: but how about enterprise management
13:42:05 <hhalpin> adam: when we want to have our corporate social network reach out to others on another corporate social network
13:42:10 <hhalpin> adam: when we have some agreement
13:42:10 <cperey> do not have documented case (user story) covering how enterprises can benefit from data portability
13:42:26 <hhalpin> adam: but we have to respect privacy and security of this data.
13:42:34 <cperey> he's our scribe today!
13:42:37 <hhalpin> DKA: really likes adam's story
13:42:51 <jsalvachua> i have a real use case on this that we may have to implement, i will try to write it.
13:42:52 <hhalpin> Boeing's internal stuff is really neat!
13:43:08 <danbri> yep
13:43:16 <danbri> q?
13:43:16 <bblfish> cool
13:43:20 <cperey> does Sun have similar story/use case?
13:43:29 <hhalpin> ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
13:43:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-54 - Write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [on Adam Boyet - due 2009-07-15].
13:43:34 <bblfish> yes, sun has similar use cases
13:43:41 <cperey> emphasize CROSS enterprise
13:43:49 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to write up the social network data exchange story
13:43:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Write up the social network data exchange story [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-07-15].
13:44:07 <Adam> jsalvachua: have a story for two companies to collaborate
13:44:17 <Adam> ... will try to expand on the use case
13:44:27 <bblfish> well it's not just cross enterprise, there is also enterprise-individual, enterprise-government, enterprise-university, inter university, and all possible combinations :-)
13:44:31 <hhalpin> ACTION: jsalvachua to write up business use-case with the company he's been working with. 
13:44:31 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jsalvachua
13:44:33 <danbri> ack me?
13:44:34 <hhalpin> ack danbri
13:44:34 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to discuss "code visits data vs data visits code" opensocial pitch
13:45:05 <Adam> danbri: wants to talk about distinction google made when rolling out OpenSocial
13:45:19 <hhalpin> tinkster - want to write up the marketing use-case for the use-case document?
13:46:04 <tinkster> hhalpin: as in this? "Business case: if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue."
13:46:22 <Adam> ... prior to those apis, a lot of people thought about letting the data go .... google said what about the data staying where it is such that a widget stays where the data is and runs in a controlled environment
13:46:23 <hhalpin> Yes, just add that to the use-case story wiki
13:46:56 <Adam> ... from businesses perspective, its not just about freeing the data or keeping the data but a little bit of both
13:46:58 <tinkster> ACTION Toby to add user story along lines of... if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue.
13:46:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Add user story along lines of... if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue. [on Toby Inkster - due 2009-07-15].
13:47:02 <cperey> that's the question: why would you ever want to free up this data?
13:47:17 <petef> clap, clap
13:47:29 <mischat> +1 
13:47:32 <Adam> dandbri: there are 2 widget platforms: w3c widget, other is OpenSocial
13:47:47 <Adam> ... there is a new one in the Apache space called wookie trying to bridge the two
13:48:06 <mischat> echo ....
13:48:18 <hhalpin> ACTION: danbri to write up widget business tory
13:48:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Write up widget business tory [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-07-15].
13:48:19 <danbri> see http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser for wookie proposal  - w3c widgets meet opensoccial widgets
13:48:27 <mischat> q+
13:48:33 <hhalpin> Zakim, ack mischat
13:48:33 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
13:48:35 <Adam> hhalpin: any other talk about portability
13:48:57 <danbri> re widgets and biz, maybe i can mention - http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/introducing-joost-widgets-2007-talk-presentation
13:48:58 <Adam> mischat: question about people contacting somebody at facebook regarding privacy
13:48:58 <cperey> Chris Kelly, Chief Privacy officer
13:49:17 <Adam> ... might be able to poke a contact there if have more information about what we would like to ask of him
13:49:30 <Adam> ... to have more context when contacting him
13:49:30 <danbri> maybe an email Q&A is best for him, initially?
13:49:34 <cperey> that's what I would like (suggested)
13:49:44 <cperey> agreed
13:49:47 <mattroweshow> +1
13:49:49 <hhalpin> My feeling is that we want to have him to talk to us at some point, but we can probably only do that once so we need to have our questions ready :)
13:49:50 <Adam> danbri: maybe a Q&A interaction as a good first step
13:50:15 <bblfish> oops two people talking simultaneously
13:50:21 <hhalpin> (sorry about that!)
13:50:25 <cperey> what? I"m sorry didn't understand you
13:50:48 <Adam> hhalpin: any updates on the facebook privacy 
13:51:01 <Adam> cprey: don't have much more detail other then articles shared
13:51:17 <Adam> ... some people on both sides of the privacy fence
13:51:22 <mischat> i dont know anything about it, 
13:51:44 <mattroweshow> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/the_day_facebook_changed_messages_to_become_pulic.php
13:51:45 <Adam> ... don't know enough about the policy part, leave that to the experts
13:52:11 <Adam> dka: received some mix reaction when shared it internally 
13:52:22 <cperey> http://www.scribd.com/doc/17010802/Facebook-Privacy-Presentation-July-1-2009
13:52:31 <caribou> it's about audience segregation, mainly
13:52:41 <cperey> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/01/the-looming-facebook-privacy-fiasco/
13:53:10 <PhilA2> +1 to DKA
13:53:35 <Adam> dka: you do get much segregation even within the same country
13:53:54 <danbri> q*
13:53:55 <danbri> q?
13:54:33 <danbri> ( many privacy issues are highly counterintuitive - teenagers don't know about probability and de-anonymising data )
13:54:39 <Adam> dka: in terms of what to ask privacy officer of facebook, bouncing some ideas from what came out of the privacy jungle discussion
13:54:39 <cperey> also some ideas from the C Petersen paper
13:54:56 <Adam> ... why are social networks de-empasizing privacy
13:54:59 <tinkster> Privacy/Policy Commons would really help here. Creative Commons makes licensing really easy to understand: you can do this, you can't do that. We need the same easy at-a-glance system for privacy.
13:55:01 <melvster> http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf
13:55:02 <cperey> http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf
13:55:11 <karl> http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/10/22/putting_privacy.html
13:55:23 <danbri> http://www.fcw.com/Articles/2009/02/19/GSA-survey.aspx looks relevant but i don't know those folks
13:55:24 <mischat> +1
13:55:36 <PhilA2> I spoke to one very influential person in the online safety world recently who felt that it would be human rights people, not children's advocates, who would kill LBS
13:55:40 <karl> http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/privacy/  
13:55:52 <Adam> hhalpin: do the portabilty group want to have a task force meeting regarding getting some of this together
13:56:14 <Adam> jsalvachua: probably start later when the points are more clear
13:56:23 <hhalpin> Meeting adjourned
13:56:34 <rreck> bye
13:56:34 <cperey> bye
13:56:35 <jsalvachua> bye
13:56:36 <PhilA2> bye
13:56:38 <AndreaP> bye
13:56:38 <tinkster> bye
13:56:38 <mattroweshow> bye
13:56:39 <karl> thanks bye
13:56:40 <bblfish> thanks, bye
13:56:43 <petef> bye
13:56:47 <melvster> bye
13:56:54 <mischat> bye all
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13:57:05 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, generate minutes
13:57:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
13:57:27 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:35 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html
14:01:06 <hhalpin> bye everyone!
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14:13:09 <tinkster> zakim lives!
14:27:14 <danbri> :)
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