13:28:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:28:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc
13:28:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:28:08 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:28:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:28:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:28:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:28:11 <trackbot> Date: 07 July 2009
13:29:13 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started
13:29:13 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #bpwg
13:29:20 <Zakim> +DKA
13:29:31 <adam> zakim,code?
13:29:31 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), adam
13:29:39 <miguel> miguel has joined #bpwg
13:29:41 <DKA> DKA has joined #bpwg
13:29:53 <DKA> zakim, who's here?
13:29:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA
13:29:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see DKA, miguel, adam, Zakim, RRSAgent, yeliz, francois, trackbot
13:30:01 <Zakim> +adam
13:30:13 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jul/0010.html
13:30:16 <francois> Chair: DKA
13:30:54 <francois> Regrets: nacho, jeff, abel, brucel, achuter, tom, phila
13:31:33 <Zakim> +Francois
13:31:46 <EdC> EdC has joined #bpwg
13:32:00 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
13:32:24 <DKA> zakim, who's here?
13:32:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, adam, Francois
13:32:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see SeanP, EdC, DKA, miguel, adam, Zakim, RRSAgent, yeliz, francois, trackbot
13:32:40 <Zakim> +??P1
13:32:47 <yeliz> zakim, ??P1 is yeliz
13:32:47 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
13:32:56 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
13:32:56 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:33:14 <Zakim> +miguel
13:33:30 <Zakim> +SeanP
13:34:24 <Zakim> +EdC
13:34:59 <francois> Scribe: francois
13:35:26 <francois> Regrets+ chaals
13:36:14 <jo> jo has joined #bpwg
13:36:21 <jo> zakim, code?
13:36:21 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
13:36:36 <francois> Topic: Administrativa
13:36:42 <francois> DKA: do we still have a WG?
13:36:57 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2009Jul/0001.html FD's announcement of charter extension
13:36:59 <Zakim> + +0208995aaaa
13:37:11 <jo> zakim, aaaa is me
13:37:11 <Zakim> +jo; got it
13:37:28 <francois> francois: charter extension approved until the end of the year!
13:37:30 <jo> /me is happy to have his existential doubts settled
13:37:35 <francois> dka: happy to exist.
13:38:15 <francois> dka: question about calls during summer period. I'll be away end of July beginning of August.
13:38:28 <francois> ... That does not necessarily entail we need to cancel the calls.
13:38:36 <EdC> Should we poll people present?
13:39:06 <francois> francois: Yes, I'll be away next two weeks.
13:39:34 <francois> dka: I just want to avoid having a call scheduled and people end up waiting for other participants to join.
13:39:52 <EdC> I have no plans to be absent in the coming 5 weeks.
13:40:05 <jo> /me is away from July 29 to Aug 17
13:40:17 <francois> ... Francois, do you think you can set up a poll?
13:40:54 <francois> francois: sure. One thing is that if Jo and Dan are both away, we should cancel the corresponding call(s). BPWG can't survive without chairs.
13:41:04 <DKA> ACTION-986?
13:41:04 <trackbot> ACTION-986 -- François Daoust to enquires as to status of CSS Media Queries Rec -- due 2009-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
13:41:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/986
13:41:11 <francois> Topic: Use of media queries
13:41:37 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jul/0009.html Status of CSS media queries
13:41:52 <francois> dka: let's start with ACTION-986 on francois
13:41:55 <francois> ACTION-986?
13:41:55 <trackbot> ACTION-986 -- François Daoust to enquires as to status of CSS Media Queries Rec -- due 2009-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
13:41:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/986
13:43:52 <francois> francois: the important point is that the CSS media queries spec is not blocked for lack of implementations.
13:44:06 <francois> ... There are some in mobile browsers although not in all browsers, for sure.
13:44:25 <francois> ... It really depends on what we want to put in the best practices.
13:44:34 <EdC> Shouldn't the BP have a caveat regarding the implementation of various query elements, i.e. "device-width" vs. "color" or "orientation" ? 
13:44:58 <francois> dka: Some people wanted to remove all mentions to CSS media queries. I think it should be emphasized for mobile developers.
13:45:22 <francois> adam: What is it that we want to specifically call out about CSS media queries?
13:45:57 <francois> dka: I think it is particularly relevant to mobile developers, because it allows to use specific device capabilities.
13:46:22 <francois> ... it's not particularly dynamic capabilities, but still a good thing to have.
13:46:57 <francois> adam: OK. I think the possibilities are pretty limited for me as a developer, but I agree.
13:47:39 <jo> q+
13:48:16 <DKA> ack jo
13:48:37 <francois> dka: francois, do you think you can take an action to craft some text?
13:48:56 <EdC> I suspect that device-width is generally supported in CSS media queries because of other elements such as viewport. 
13:49:18 <francois> francois: Sure. I think I agree with Adam that it's not that super useful. Some properties are not exactly supported, and the possibilities are not super wow.
13:49:43 <EdC> q+
13:49:43 <francois> jo: I think it's actually not a best practice.
13:50:41 <francois> ... If Dan can have the tons of developers he knows that consider use of CSS media queries as a best practice to explain how they use it.
13:50:48 <francois> ... that would be great.
13:50:59 <DKA> ack edc
13:51:33 <adam> q+
13:51:39 <francois> EdC: CSS media queries are only useful in the context of viewports.
13:52:43 <francois> dka: ok, why don't you give me an action to see how people use CSS media queries around here?
13:52:57 <francois> ... and an action on Francois to craft some nominal text on CSS media queries.
13:53:56 <francois> adam: I think francois should not spend time for the time being. Let's fine people who use it in practice.
13:54:23 <francois> ... If you can find somebody who has some insight here, then that would be useful.
13:54:24 <francois> Q+
13:54:35 <francois> dka: I'm happy to take an action.
13:55:03 <francois> ACTION: dan to find people who use CSS media queries to tell whether it's a BP
13:55:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-994 - Find people who use CSS media queries to tell whether it's a BP [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-07-14].
13:55:03 <DKA> ack francois
13:55:52 <francois> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG
13:55:52 <adam> q-
13:57:04 <francois> francois: just to note that BPWG's home page actually uses CSS media queries to send different stylesheets depending on the incoming devices.
13:57:15 <francois> dka: OK, that's one data point.
13:57:29 <jo> q+
13:57:42 <francois> adam: I still need to update a few links in the document.
13:57:43 <EdC> Wasn't there a long-standing issue with canvases and svg?
13:58:04 <francois> jo: I have some typos for you, adam. There's also quite a few open actions and issues against this document.
13:58:12 <francois> ... We need to resolve them.
13:58:29 <francois> adam: Yes. There's also some SVG/canvas issue opened on Jeff.
13:59:15 <francois> dka: Is there anything that prevents us from resolving the issues?
13:59:21 <francois> ... Let's try to enumerate them.
14:00:16 <francois> jo: let me paste the URI to the opened issues and actions.
14:00:16 <jo> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/14
14:01:34 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-262
14:01:37 <francois> ISSUE-262?
14:01:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-262 -- Discuss the option to offer choices of presentation as a best practices for mobile web apps -- OPEN
14:01:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/262
14:01:45 <francois> dka: Is this something that we can close?
14:02:07 <EdC> Isn't 262 handled somehow in the practice re: classes of devices?
14:02:08 <francois> adam: can somebody summarize what it means?
14:02:28 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20090619#d1e1515
14:03:17 <francois> dka: the issue is whether the "Use Device Classification to Simplify Content Adaptation" is a best practice or not.
14:03:26 <francois> adam: the Google's home page does this.
14:03:39 <francois> dka: I don't think this is very controversial, actually.
14:03:44 <francois> ... I suggest that we resolve it.
14:04:10 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: CLose issue-262 and keep section 3.6.5 in mwabp.
14:04:19 <francois> s/Use Device Classification to Simplify Content Adaptation/Offer Users a Choice of Interfaces/
14:04:23 <EdC> +1
14:04:26 <francois> +1
14:04:28 <DKA> +1
14:04:28 <adam> +1
14:04:30 <miguel> +1
14:04:41 <SeanP> +1
14:04:53 <DKA> RESOLUTION: CLose issue-262 and keep section 3.6.5 in mwabp.
14:04:56 <yeliz> +1
14:05:01 <francois> RESOLUTION: CLose issue-262 and keep section 3.6.5 in mwabp.
14:05:04 <francois> close ISSUE-262
14:05:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-262 Discuss the option to offer choices of presentation as a best practices for mobile web apps closed
14:05:37 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-263 - how to keep the screen alive?
14:05:43 <francois> ISSUE-263?
14:05:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-263 -- How to keep the screen alive (re null gestures) - what to recommend? -- OPEN
14:05:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/263
14:05:56 <francois> dka: I suggest that we close it. We didn't go anywhere.
14:06:11 <francois> adam: I think it would rather be a bad practice to keep the screen alive. I'd rather close this.
14:06:41 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We close issue-263 and drop the idea of keeping the screen alive as a bp.
14:06:46 <DKA> +1
14:06:50 <francois> +1
14:06:54 <adam> +1
14:06:55 <EdC> 0
14:06:56 <miguel> +1
14:07:28 <francois> dka: Yes, this would be left to implementations.
14:07:38 <francois> RESOLUTION: We close issue-263 and drop the idea of keeping the screen alive as a bp.
14:07:46 <francois> close issue-263
14:07:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-263 How to keep the screen alive (re null gestures) - what to recommend? closed
14:08:00 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-264 - progressive enhancement
14:08:17 <francois> adam: I think this was done when I rewrote the section on the delivery context.
14:08:22 <francois> ... So that's complete.
14:08:25 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Close Issue-264 as it has been completed.
14:08:28 <adam> +1
14:09:09 <adam> http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/#bp-devcap-scripting (captures aspects of the original concept)
14:09:24 <francois> +1
14:09:27 <DKA> +1
14:09:46 <francois> RESOLUTION: Close Issue-264 as it has been completed.
14:09:57 <EdC> 0
14:10:09 <francois> close ISSUE-264
14:10:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-264 How to rephrase progressive enhancement to make it fit as a BP? closed
14:10:27 <DKA> ISSUE-265?
14:10:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-265 -- Discussion of Jonathan's Submission ref separation of structure presentation and behavior at http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhpvgnmn_54d7cbhrhn -- OPEN
14:10:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/265
14:10:29 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-265 - Jonathan's submission
14:10:39 <francois> adam: I had an action to respond to this.
14:11:10 <francois> ... I should just complete my action and respond, I guess.
14:11:39 <francois> dka: I think we should close the issue and leave you finish your action.
14:11:39 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: close issue-265 and keep Adam's action open to write up a note to Jonathan why he does not think this makes it as a best practice.
14:11:48 <adam> +1
14:11:56 <DKA> +1
14:12:13 <francois> +1
14:12:16 <francois> RESOLUTION: close issue-265 and keep Adam's action open to write up a note to Jonathan why he does not think this makes it as a best practice
14:12:22 <francois> close issue-265
14:12:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-265 Discussion of Jonathan's Submission ref separation of structure presentation and behavior at http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhpvgnmn_54d7cbhrhn closed
14:12:40 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-268 - Test cases to illustrate MWABP
14:12:47 <DKA> ISSUE-268?
14:12:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-268 -- Test cases to illustrate mobile web application best practices -- OPEN
14:12:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/268
14:12:51 <francois> q+
14:12:56 <DKA> ack francois
14:13:10 <jo> ack me
14:13:14 <DKA> ACTION-721?
14:13:14 <trackbot> ACTION-721 -- François Daoust to prepare a report's form to fill to test Aaron static/dynamic example -- due 2008-08-14 -- OPEN
14:13:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/721
14:13:45 <francois> francois: I miserably failed to complete my action here
14:13:55 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We abandon action-721 and issue-268 for this version of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices and defer it to v2.
14:14:03 <francois> ... I suggest we drop it. It was supposed to be the start of a complete testing framework.
14:14:27 <francois> adam: It would not be trivial to do it.
14:14:28 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We abandon action-721 and issue-268 for this version of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices.
14:14:33 <EdC> +1
14:14:34 <francois> +1
14:14:36 <DKA> +1
14:14:47 <adam> +1 (I wish we had more bench-marking / testing but it would be a very big task).
14:15:25 <francois> RESOLUTION: We abandon action-721 and issue-268 for this version of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices.
14:15:34 <francois> close ACTION-721
14:15:34 <trackbot> ACTION-721 Prepare a report's form to fill to test Aaron static/dynamic example closed
14:15:39 <francois> close ISSUE-268
14:15:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-268 Test cases to illustrate mobile web application best practices closed
14:15:59 <DKA> ISSUE-279?
14:15:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-279 -- 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely and Accessible -- OPEN
14:15:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/279
14:16:03 <francois> dka: [mumbling about mobileAppOK]
14:16:26 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-279 - Provide timely disclosures
14:16:33 <francois> adam: I think this is done.
14:16:35 <DKA> ACTION-861?
14:16:35 <trackbot> ACTION-861 -- Bryan Sullivan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 -- due 2008-10-15 -- OPEN
14:16:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/861
14:16:46 <francois> dka: is the action completed?
14:16:59 <francois> adam: yes, I think Bryan did that.
14:17:13 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points in ISSUE-279 were made so we will close ISSUE-279 and ACTION-861.
14:17:27 <EdC> So these are no longer relevant...
14:17:27 <DKA> +1
14:17:29 <EdC> +1
14:17:32 <francois> +1
14:17:44 <DKA> q?
14:17:53 <francois> RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points in ISSUE-279 were made so we will close ISSUE-279 and ACTION-861.
14:17:58 <francois> close ISSUE-279
14:17:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-279 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely and Accessible closed
14:18:02 <francois> close ACTION-861
14:18:02 <trackbot> ACTION-861 Propose text ref ISSUE-279 closed
14:18:22 <francois> Topic: ISSUE 280 - User awareness and control
14:18:26 <DKA> ISSUE-280?
14:18:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-280 -- 3.3 User awareness and control -- OPEN
14:18:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/280
14:18:39 <francois> adam: same here, it predates the discussion we had during last F2F. I think it can be safely closed.
14:19:07 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points made in ISSUE-280 so we will close ISSUE-280.
14:19:13 <DKA> +1
14:19:19 <adam> +1
14:19:19 <EdC> 0
14:19:50 <francois> RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points made in ISSUE-280 so we will close ISSUE-280.
14:19:55 <DKA> ISSUE-281?
14:19:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-281 -- MWA should disclose their capabilities in HTTP requests, to allow service adaptation -- OPEN
14:19:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/281
14:19:56 <francois> close ISSUE-280
14:19:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-280 3.3 User awareness and control closed
14:20:41 <francois> adam: It's been dormant for some time now.
14:20:49 <francois> ... It's out of scope.
14:20:57 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: WRT ISSUE-281, this is out of scope for MWABP so we will close ISSUE-281 and take no action.
14:21:01 <adam> +1
14:21:02 <francois> ... I'm for closing it
14:21:05 <DKA> +1
14:21:25 <EdC> +1
14:21:33 <francois> i/adam: It's/Topic: ISSUE-281 - capabilities disclosure in HTTP requests/
14:21:37 <francois> RESOLUTION: WRT ISSUE-281, this is out of scope for MWABP so we will close ISSUE-281 and take no action.
14:21:40 <francois> close ISSUE-281
14:21:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-281 MWA should disclose their capabilities in HTTP requests, to allow service adaptation closed
14:21:42 <DKA> ISSUE-287?
14:21:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-287 -- Propose merging 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 in MWABP -- OPEN
14:21:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/287
14:21:59 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-287 - merging 3.1.1 and 3.1.2
14:22:09 <francois> dka: does this still make sense?
14:22:25 <EdC> no longer relevant => close it.
14:22:28 <francois> adam: instead of merging, we replaced them with application data. So the topic's moot.
14:22:40 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Issue-287 is moot so we will close issue-287.
14:22:43 <EdC> +1
14:22:53 <DKA> +1
14:23:16 <adam> +1
14:23:17 <francois> +1
14:23:18 <francois> RESOLUTION: Issue-287 is moot so we will close issue-287.
14:23:21 <francois> close ISSUE-287
14:23:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-287 Propose merging 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 in MWABP closed
14:23:34 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-290 - desirable goal of MWABP statements
14:23:36 <DKA> ISSUE-290?
14:23:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-290 -- Desirable Goal of MWABP statements -- OPEN
14:23:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/290
14:23:50 <francois> adam: Jonathan raised this during last F2F. We had no further discussion on this.
14:24:09 <EdC> q+
14:24:11 <francois> ... I don't think desirable goals would add much value, they would just add text.
14:24:37 <EdC> q-
14:24:47 <francois> dka: considering Johnathan is not here, should we give him some kind of deadline to come up with some text?
14:24:55 <francois> adam: He did propose some document.
14:25:00 <DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Mar/0132.html
14:26:24 <DKA> q?
14:26:26 <francois> dka: I'm not so happy about so quickly abandoning this idea.
14:26:44 <francois> ... What do you think, francois?
14:27:32 <francois> francois: it's related to the icons we want to have, but don't really have for the time being, right?
14:27:56 <francois> adam: It's close but not exactly the same. We should still keep the icons.
14:28:36 <francois> dka: the desirable goals are more text we may want to add to each statement.
14:28:53 <francois> ... It just seems like a bit of work.
14:28:58 <francois> q+
14:29:14 <francois> ... Within 3.4 for instance, we could include a bit more text about performance
14:30:21 <DKA> ack francois
14:30:22 <francois> ... Why don't we leave it open and somebody send a message to Jonathan about ISSUE-290?
14:31:51 <francois> francois: I'm unclear about the added value compared to the existing structure of the document. Consider the section on User-Experience, it's pretty clear the BPs are about improving the user experience.
14:32:39 <francois> dka: It may be a way to flag a BP that sits in a section and that also has an impact on some other section.
14:33:01 <francois> ... That would be kind of a low impact way to do what Jonathan is suggesting.
14:33:40 <francois> adam: As a principal, I don't have any objection against this.
14:34:44 <francois> ... Sections preambles already try to mention that. For instance the Conservative User of Resources and the section on User Experience
14:36:28 <DKA> Adam should look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP.
14:36:56 <DKA> ACTION: Adam to look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP.
14:36:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-995 - Look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP. [on Adam Connors - due 2009-07-14].
14:37:18 <francois> dka: so we'll leave ISSUE-290 opened for the time being.
14:37:25 <francois> ... with an attached action
14:37:57 <DKA> ISSUE-291?
14:37:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-291 -- widget best practices -- OPEN
14:37:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/291
14:38:12 <francois> Topic: ISSUE-291 - widget best practices
14:38:36 <francois> dka: my view is that we should not do this.
14:38:44 <francois> ... and that we should close the issue.
14:38:50 <francois> ... Not because it's not important.
14:39:18 <EdC> At least an explicit statement in the document about the non-inclusion of widgets?
14:39:24 <francois> ... But because there is not enough implementation experience in the wild to say things about that at this time.
14:39:43 <francois> ... I talked with Art Barstow, chair of the Webapps WG about a Widget Best Practices document.
14:40:03 <francois> ... We agreed that if it were to be done, the Web apps WG would be the correct place to do it.
14:40:15 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will not add widget BPs to MWABP and will not work on a special widget BP doc at this time; close ISSUE-291.
14:40:17 <adam> +1
14:40:18 <EdC> q+
14:40:25 <DKA> ack edc
14:40:55 <francois> EdC: will you put a note that we exclude widgets from the document?
14:41:06 <adam> http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/#webapp-defined
14:41:11 <francois> adam: There's already some text in 1.3.2. I think it's fine as it stands.
14:41:56 <francois> dka: I think we need to modify that text. Remove the words "being considered"
14:42:43 <francois> ... Two different things. In one sense, the BPs are applicable to widgets, because it's just a package for a web app.
14:43:06 <francois> ... But there's some specific stuff in widgets, such as localization.
14:43:11 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will not add widget BPs to MWABP and will not work on a special widget BP doc at this time; close ISSUE-291. We will put an explicit statement in the doc stating that widgets-specifc BPs are out in scope because not enough implementation experience exists at time of writing.
14:43:26 <francois> +1
14:43:27 <EdC> +1
14:43:32 <adam> +1
14:43:58 <miguel> +1
14:44:08 <francois> RESOLUTION: The group will not add widget BPs to MWABP and will not work on a special widget BP doc at this time; close ISSUE-291. We will put an explicit statement in the doc stating that widgets-specifc BPs are out in scope because not enough implementation experience exists at time of writing.
14:44:20 <DKA> Also think you should change the reference to: http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/
14:44:55 <francois> close ISSUE-291
14:44:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-291 widget best practices closed
14:46:29 <francois> dka: one open issue remaining on MWABP, that's good!
14:47:33 <francois> Topic: CT - URI patterns
14:47:44 <francois> dka: Eduardo, you wanted to talk about that.
14:47:54 <EdC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0101.html
14:48:57 <francois> EdC: this is Francois' response to my comment that explains why the note is correct, but is terse. The meaning is likely to be lost by readers.
14:49:30 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0108.html Eduardo's proposed clarification
14:49:42 <EdC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0108.html
14:50:05 <francois> EdC: The sentence in the guidelines has all the semantics required, but is a bit unclear. So I suggest to add a clarifying sentence.
14:50:56 <francois> dka: can we turn that into a proposed resolution?
14:52:11 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The URI of the request plays no part in determining wehter request header values are modified and in particular,whether or not a urI PATTERN IS MENTIONED IN 4.2.9 IS NOT MATERIAL TO THIS JUDGEMNT
14:52:12 <EdC> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: add the following sentence to the 2nd note of 4.1.5: "For the sake of clarity: a URI not matching those specified in 4.2.9 does not 
14:52:12 <EdC> imply that the corresponding site delivers content unsuitable for mobile devices."
14:52:56 <francois> jo: I just wanted to avoid the double negative.
14:53:53 <francois> ... I think it is better to say that the URI of the request plays no part here, that is basically what we're trying to say
14:53:54 <francois> q+
14:53:58 <francois> ack fran
14:53:59 <DKA> ack framc
14:54:51 <francois> francois: agree with Jo. Double negative is usually unclear.
14:55:14 <EdC> "The purpose of the note was to emphasize the opposite: the absence of a 
14:55:15 <EdC> mobile indication in a URI pattern does not mean that HTTP header field 
14:55:15 <EdC> values should be transformed."
14:55:27 <DKA> +1 to Jo's resolution and giving the editor some leeway.
14:55:52 <francois> jo: can you leave it to the editor to come up with some text on the basis that it will be easier to understand?
14:56:58 <jo> ACTION: Jo to add agreed text to 4.1.5 trying to avoid inserting too many negatives, not, not
14:56:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-996 - Add agreed text to 4.1.5 trying to avoid inserting too many negatives, not, not [on Jo Rabin - due 2009-07-14].
14:57:36 <DKA> -1 to tea.
14:57:40 <francois> jo: Eduardo, do you agree?
14:57:46 <jo> +1 to tea party
14:58:35 <francois> EdC: shouldn't it rather be "and whether or not the URI pattern matches one of those defined in 4.2.9"?
14:59:04 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The URI referred to inthe request plays no part in determining whether request header values are modified and in particular,whether or not a a URI ,matches the PATTERNs MENTIONED IN 4.2.9 IS NOT MATERIAL TO THIS JUDGEMNT
15:00:06 <EdC> +1
15:00:08 <Zakim> -jo
15:00:49 <DKA> +1
15:01:07 <francois> RESOLUTION: The URI referred to in the request plays no part in determining whether request header values are modified and in particular,whether or not a a URI, matches the patterns mentioned in 4.2.9 IS NOT MATERIAL TO THIS JUDGEMNT
15:01:29 <francois> dka: That sounds like a lovely coda to our great call, today!
15:01:42 <francois> ... Thanks everyone!
15:01:44 <Zakim> -DKA
15:01:46 <miguel> bye
15:01:47 <Zakim> -Francois
15:01:49 <Zakim> -adam
15:01:49 <yeliz> bye
15:01:53 <Zakim> -EdC
15:01:54 <Zakim> -miguel
15:01:58 <francois> [Call adjourned]
15:01:59 <miguel> miguel has left #bpwg
15:02:00 <Zakim> -yeliz
15:02:24 <Zakim> -SeanP
15:02:26 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
15:02:28 <Zakim> Attendees were DKA, adam, Francois, yeliz, miguel, SeanP, EdC, +0208995aaaa, jo
15:02:50 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:27:37 <francois> zakim, bye
15:27:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #bpwg
15:27:41 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
15:27:41 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-actions.rdf :
15:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: dan to find people who use CSS media queries to tell whether it's a BP [1]
15:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc#T13-55-03
15:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Adam to look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP. [2]
15:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc#T14-36-56
15:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jo to add agreed text to 4.1.5 trying to avoid inserting too many negatives, not, not [3]
15:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc#T14-56-58