14:56:57 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 14:56:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/02-xproc-irc 14:57:00 Zakim, this will be xproc 14:57:00 ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 14:57:32 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 14:57:33 Date: 7 July 2009 14:57:33 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/07/02-agenda 14:57:33 Meeting: 148 14:57:33 Chair: Norm 14:57:33 Scribe: Norm 14:57:35 ScribeNick: Norm 15:00:04 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started 15:00:09 +Norm 15:00:51 +[ArborText] 15:01:31 +Vojtech 15:02:02 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:06:04 zajim, please call ht-781 15:06:28 s/zajim/zakim/ 15:06:29 Well, If ht could type . . . 15:06:29 Zakim, please call ht-781 15:06:29 ok, Norm; the call is being made 15:06:31 +Ht 15:06:54 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:06:54 On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, Vojtech, Ht 15:07:04 Present: Norm, Paul, Vojtech, Henry 15:07:08 Regrets: Mohamed 15:07:15 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:07:15 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/07/02-agenda 15:07:18 Accepted 15:07:24 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:07:24 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/06/18-minutes 15:07:27 Accepted 15:07:33 Topic: Next meeting: telcon 9 June 2009 15:08:24 Unlikely to achieve quorem; cancelled. 15:08:36 Topic: Next meeting: 16 June 2009 15:08:49 s/June/July/g 15:09:13 Accepted 15:09:15 s/quorem/quorum/ 15:09:31 Topic: Implicit outputs on p:pipeline/p:declare-step 15:09:35 Norm summarizes. 15:11:06 Norm: Actually, it doesn't apply to p:pipeline. 15:11:40 Vojtech: I don't like a default output port on p:declare-step because it's anonymous. But Henry suggested that we call it "result" and I think maybe that's ok. 15:12:27 Henry: I appreciate that the situation is complicated; but it seems like it catches the 80/20. 15:13:53 Vojtech: One thing I find weird. Suppose you have a declare-step in a library that has an implicit output; then you can't refer to it by name 15:14:04 Norm: That's fixed if we say the name is "result" 15:14:11 Vojtech: We say similar things about viewport. 15:14:35 ...So it's not such a big deal. Saying the rule doesn't apply to p:declare-step is maybe a bigger change. 15:15:08 Norm: I can see advantage of keep the rule and naming it result. 15:16:26 ...but then that's inconsistent unless we always say that the implicit output is named "result". 15:16:49 Henry: It's hard to guess which inconsistency is least likely to bite people. 15:17:39 ...The inconsistency that I rejected is maybe not so bad. 15:18:11 ...If what we're saying is that either you get full scale defaulting or you get none. 15:18:38 ...If you need, for good reasons to change it from pipeline to declare step, you're going to have to declare an input port so you might as well declare an output port at the same time. 15:19:26 ...So we could say there's no defaulting on the way in or the way out. 15:20:07 1. We special case p:declare-step so that the implicit output port rule doesn't apply. 15:21:01 2. We don't do that, and then we have odd issues with ths anonymous port name 15:21:30 3. If we fix the odd issues by giving the port a name, then it's different because the other implicitly created ports don't have that name 15:23:26 4. We can fix that point by making the name always "result" in all cases. 15:25:38 Norm: My concern about 4 is that it can lead to less readable pipelines. Because users willb e able to refer to ports by name that are not explicitly named anywhere. 15:26:00 Henry: I'd be happier to go with 1 if we make at least some of our library examples use p:pipeline. 15:27:21 ...We don't have any library examples, so I'm inclined toward 1. 15:27:38 Vojtech: It's my second favorite, but I can accept it. 15:28:03 ...I don't like anonymous outputs, but maybe that's a personal issue. 15:28:12 Henry: Maybe we should put this in countdown for a week. 15:29:10 Norm: Ok, I'll highlight this tentative decision and give folks two weeks to push back. 15:30:10 Topic: Escaping in p:escape-markup 15:30:20 Norm: This is CR#135. 15:30:23 Norm summarizes. 15:30:31 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/ 15:33:19 Norm: We could change the spec to say what is escaped, but I think that would be a bit weird. 15:33:30 Norm: Anyone want to argue for a change here? 15:33:52 Paul: Let's stay away. 15:34:49 Henry: What does serialization say? 15:35:12 Norm: Oh, right. This isn't about unescape markup at all. All unescape markup does is turn those characters into literal characters in the data model. 15:35:20 ...This is all about serialization. 15:35:53 Henry: Serialization says that characters that must be escaped...must be escaped. 15:37:16 ...Nothing else seems relevant. I don't think we need to say anything. 15:37:24 ...Adding more requirements would be obnoxious. 15:37:38 Proposed: Close without action. 15:37:43 Accepted. 15:38:09 Topic: 137 Default value for omit-xml-declaration 15:38:35 Vojtech: I brought it up, but I don't think we need to do anything about it. 15:39:08 Henry: I've found, in general,that I'm more often irritated when I get it and didn't want it than vice versa. 15:39:49 Vojtech: I'm ok. 15:39:57 Proposal: Close without action. 15:40:02 Accepted. 15:40:14 Topic: Add encoding to p:data 15:40:17 Norm summarizes. 15:43:02 Vojtech: The way it is in the spec now, there are two or three possibilities about how the XQuery step handles the input. 15:43:07 ...It's all based on the content-type information. 15:48:07 Norm: Ok, the question of whether or not p:xquery is ever allowed to base64 decode a chunk of data is open, but I still don't see a downside to adding the encoding information to the output of p:data 15:48:23 Vojtech: And we could say that steps are allowed to decode it 15:48:28 Norm: I'm not as sure about that anymore 15:48:36 Vojtech: It seems to be just XQuery 15:48:50 Norm: I'm willing to add that rule to XQuery; XQuery already has a weird bunch of rules. 15:49:22 Proposal: Add [c:]encoding to the output of p:data. 15:50:02 Accepted. 15:52:17 Proposal: Add a new rule to the p:xquery step that says it can base64 decode c:data content 15:52:27 ...if it's encoded. 15:52:53 ACTION: Norm to proposal the exact text of the new rule for p:xquery that can base64 decode 15:53:11 We'll come back to this in two weeks as well. 15:53:15 Zakim, mute henry 15:53:15 sorry, Norm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to henry 15:53:18 Zakim, mute ht 15:53:18 Ht should now be muted 15:53:56 Topic: Any other business 15:54:02 Zakim, unmute ht 15:54:02 Ht should no longer be muted 15:54:23 None heard. 15:54:28 Adjourned; talk to you all in two weeks. 15:54:36 -Vojtech 15:54:39 -Norm 15:54:39 -PGrosso 15:54:40 RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:54:42 -Ht 15:54:42 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended 15:54:43 Attendees were Norm, PGrosso, Vojtech, Ht 15:54:44 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:54:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/02-xproc-minutes.html Norm 15:56:29 PGrosso has left #xproc