IRC log of svg on 2009-07-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 06:30:21 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #svg
- 06:30:21 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-svg-irc
- 06:30:23 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 06:30:23 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #svg
- 06:30:25 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
- 06:30:25 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start now
- 06:30:26 [trackbot]
- Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
- 06:30:26 [trackbot]
- Date: 01 July 2009
- 06:30:53 [Zakim]
- GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has now started
- 06:31:01 [Zakim]
- +Doug_Schepers
- 06:31:32 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 06:31:38 [ed]
- Zakim, ??P1 is me
- 06:31:38 [Zakim]
- +ed; got it
- 06:31:39 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 06:31:41 [heycam]
- Zakim, ??P2 is me
- 06:31:41 [Zakim]
- +heycam; got it
- 06:33:04 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 06:33:09 [anthony]
- Zakim, ??P3 is me
- 06:33:09 [Zakim]
- +anthony; got it
- 06:33:31 [ChrisL]
- ChrisL has joined #svg
- 06:33:51 [ChrisL]
- rrsagent, here
- 06:33:51 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-svg-irc#T06-33-51
- 06:33:52 [Zakim]
- +??P4
- 06:34:11 [ed]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009AprJun/0247.html
- 06:34:17 [jwatt]
- Zakim, ??P4 is me
- 06:34:17 [Zakim]
- +jwatt; got it
- 06:34:25 [heycam]
- Chair: Erik
- 06:34:27 [heycam]
- Scribe: Cameron
- 06:34:30 [heycam]
- ScribeNick: heycam
- 06:34:43 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 06:35:36 [ChrisL]
- agenda+ svg color
- 06:35:45 [heycam]
- Zakim, take up agendum 1
- 06:35:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "svg color" taken up [from ChrisL]
- 06:35:50 [ChrisL]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/DoC/Tiny12DoC.html
- 06:36:09 [heycam]
- CL: all of the commentors are in green now, they agree with our chnages
- 06:36:15 [heycam]
- s/chnages/changes/
- 06:36:54 [ChrisL]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/master/SVGColor.html
- 06:37:02 [heycam]
- [we agree to publish fpwd]
- 06:37:04 [ChrisL]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/master/SVGColorPrimer.html
- 06:37:21 [heycam]
- RESOLUTION: We will publish SVG Color as a FPWD
- 06:37:53 [heycam]
- CM: how about the syntax for icc named colours?
- 06:38:04 [heycam]
- CL: i don't mind restricting it to XML Name (though you can't start with a digit there)
- 06:38:08 [heycam]
- ... same thing with IDs
- 06:38:19 [heycam]
- ... not sure what CSS has for ident, how restricted that is
- 06:38:28 [heycam]
- ... i'm happy to restrict it down
- 06:38:42 [heycam]
- ... what i put in was what erik suggested, which was anything that didn't clash with the other syntax
- 06:39:19 [ChrisL]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/grammar.html
- 06:39:58 [heycam]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html
- 06:40:03 [heycam]
- [-]?{nmstart}{nmchar}*
- 06:40:12 [heycam]
- nmstart [_a-z]|{nonascii}|{escape}
- 06:40:19 [heycam]
- nmchar [_a-z0-9-]|{nonascii}|{escape}
- 06:40:39 [heycam]
- CL: so the same as an xml name, can't have digits at the beginning
- 06:40:53 [heycam]
- ... we should document that you can't start with a digit
- 06:40:57 [heycam]
- ... i can live with that
- 06:41:08 [heycam]
- ED: that'll go in before publication?
- 06:41:08 [heycam]
- CL: yes
- 06:41:14 [heycam]
- ... i'll respond to anne saying we agree
- 06:41:59 [heycam]
- Topic: ISSUE-2287 - Consider clarifying empty clipPath behaviour
- 06:42:01 [heycam]
- ISSUE-2287?
- 06:42:01 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2287 -- Consider clarifying empty clipPath behaviour -- RAISED
- 06:42:01 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2287
- 06:42:13 [heycam]
- ED: this is an issue i can across from some test cases
- 06:42:23 [heycam]
- ... seems that implementations differ on how empty clip paths behave
- 06:42:30 [heycam]
- ... i made a ua test
- 06:42:37 [heycam]
- ... and tested the four cases i found
- 06:42:48 [heycam]
- ... i think we should consider adding this to 1.1 second edition spec
- 06:42:56 [heycam]
- ... i can go through each of the cases
- 06:43:09 [heycam]
- ... the first to agree on is what should happen if you have an empty clip path
- 06:43:18 [heycam]
- ... most impls agree that that would mean everything is clipped away
- 06:43:31 [heycam]
- ... not sure why batik thinks that it means nothing is clipped
- 06:43:42 [heycam]
- CM: yes i think it should clip everything away
- 06:43:48 [heycam]
- ED: the spec doesn't say anything about the case
- 06:43:53 [heycam]
- ... but it's logical
- 06:44:04 [heycam]
- ... if you have an empty area, you'll have nothing left
- 06:44:11 [heycam]
- ... we could consider adding a note there
- 06:44:27 [heycam]
- ... second case is similar to the first, when you have children that have display:none set
- 06:44:35 [heycam]
- ... third is visibility:hidden
- 06:44:41 [heycam]
- ... those are interpreted differently in safari
- 06:44:49 [heycam]
- ... where visibility:hidden objects contribute to the clipping path
- 06:44:56 [heycam]
- ... which i think is a bit strange
- 06:45:19 [heycam]
- CM: does the spec say anything about display:none?
- 06:45:33 [heycam]
- ... i thought all objects contribute to the clip path regardless of display/visibility
- 06:45:42 [ed]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/masking.html#EstablishingANewClippingPath
- 06:45:42 [heycam]
- ED: i think it's just talking about the <clipPath> element itself
- 06:46:12 [heycam]
- "The 'display' property does not apply to the 'clipPath' element; thus, 'clipPath' elements are not directly rendered even if the 'display' property is set to a value other than none, and 'clipPath' elements are available for referencing even when the 'display' property on the 'clipPath' element or any of its ancestors is set to none."
- 06:46:20 [heycam]
- ED: but it doesn't talk about children of the clipPath
- 06:46:29 [heycam]
- ... and sometimes it's useful to remove elements from the clipPath easily with display:none
- 06:47:12 [heycam]
- "The raw geometry of each child element exclusive of rendering properties such as 'fill', 'stroke', 'stroke-width' within a 'clipPath' conceptually defines a 1-bit mask..."
- 06:47:22 [heycam]
- ED: depends what rendering properties includes
- 06:48:00 [heycam]
- AG: does 1.2T say something about this?
- 06:48:15 [heycam]
- CM: tiny doesn't have clipping
- 06:48:21 [heycam]
- AG: but i think we had some wording in there that relates to this
- 06:49:27 [heycam]
- ED: there's a definition for rendering tree, but that's the closest i could find
- 06:49:52 [heycam]
- CM: perhaps "rendering tree" is what we could reference
- 06:49:56 [heycam]
- ... if it's in 1.1
- 06:50:15 [heycam]
- CM: what's your suggestion on which ones contribute to clipping paths?
- 06:50:24 [heycam]
- ED: i'd prefer the more graphical sense of it
- 06:50:42 [heycam]
- ... it's intuitive to me that the things that show up and render (if not in a clipPath) would contribute
- 06:50:49 [heycam]
- ... and if you hide them in any way they wouldn't
- 06:50:58 [heycam]
- AG: so visibility would affect it?
- 06:51:07 [heycam]
- ED: i think visibility:hidden should contribute to the clip path
- 06:51:16 [heycam]
- ... but we could try to list all of the rendering properties
- 06:51:27 [heycam]
- ... if fill/stroke/stroke-width are not the only ones
- 06:51:36 [heycam]
- CL: tends to trip us up if we list them all, harder to add new ones in other specs
- 06:52:33 [heycam]
- CM: i would think intuitively that visibility:hidden wouldn't make a difference
- 06:52:39 [heycam]
- ... but that display:none would prevent contribution to the clip path
- 06:52:56 [heycam]
- JW: i think visibility:hidden shouldn't contribute
- 06:53:10 [heycam]
- ... the only place i can think of it being useful is if you're referencing geometry that is the thing you're clipping
- 06:53:18 [heycam]
- ... trying to think of scenarios where it matters
- 06:53:46 [heycam]
- DS: from the perspective of authoring, what's the most intuitive behaviour? what happens if for some reason that thing is not there.
- 06:54:00 [heycam]
- ... i think it would be easier to debug if it would be ignored
- 06:54:46 [heycam]
- ED: when i debug clippath i find it easier to remove the clippath element and to draw it, to visualise how it gets applied
- 06:54:57 [heycam]
- ... so in that sense i think it's easier to understand what it does if it's the same as the rendering
- 06:55:02 [heycam]
- ... so visibility:hidden wouldn't contribute to the clippath
- 06:55:34 [heycam]
- JW: the only time it would matter is if you're clipping something that's visually on the screen
- 06:55:38 [heycam]
- ... otherwise the author could use display:none
- 06:55:58 [heycam]
- ... maybe using visibility:hidden for some reason in referenced geometry
- 06:56:13 [heycam]
- CM: ah so if you're referencing clippath geometry that has some visibility:hidden stuff already
- 06:56:30 [heycam]
- AG: i'm leaning towards erik's side
- 06:56:41 [anthony]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/painting.html#VisibilityControl
- 06:57:46 [ChrisL]
- (message re IDENT sent ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jul/0000.html )
- 06:59:27 [heycam]
- ED: i think the first one we can conclude that empty clippaths mean everything is clipped away
- 06:59:53 [heycam]
- ... we can also agree that any children with display:none do not contribute to the clipping path
- 07:00:20 [heycam]
- ... and we're not concluded on visibility:hidden
- 07:01:00 [heycam]
- AG: is it pain for implementations?
- 07:01:06 [heycam]
- ED: just an if statement, not a huge deal
- 07:01:18 [heycam]
- JW: all implementations other than safari do that?
- 07:01:30 [heycam]
- ED: safari lets visibility:hidden contribute to the clipping path, batik too
- 07:01:34 [heycam]
- ... opera and firefox don't
- 07:02:54 [heycam]
- JW: i'm struggling to think of a use case either way, and preventing visibility:hidden from contributing seems intuitive to me
- 07:02:58 [heycam]
- ED: ok we'll go with that
- 07:03:15 [heycam]
- ... the last case is clip-path="url(#brokenlink)"
- 07:03:25 [heycam]
- ... would that mean everything is clipped or nothing is clipped?
- 07:03:36 [heycam]
- ... batik thinks a broken link there is an error, while the others don't agree
- 07:03:46 [heycam]
- AG: IMO nothing should be clipped
- 07:04:13 [heycam]
- ED: don't know what's meant to happen for other CSS properties with invalid urls in SVG 1.1
- 07:04:20 [heycam]
- ... such as fill="url(#bad)"
- 07:04:28 [heycam]
- AG: i think it's intuitive that it doens't clip
- 07:04:36 [heycam]
- ... if it doesn't work, then it's obvious if everything renders
- 07:04:47 [heycam]
- ED: for fill you would use the initial value
- 07:04:50 [heycam]
- JW: as if it weren't specified
- 07:04:55 [heycam]
- ED: so for clip-path that would be none
- 07:04:58 [heycam]
- ... so no cipping
- 07:05:00 [heycam]
- s/cipping/clipping/
- 07:05:02 [heycam]
- CM: i agree
- 07:05:54 [heycam]
- ACTION: Erik to add these decisions to the 1.1SE spec, and make the clippath example into a test case
- 07:05:54 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2628 - Add these decisions to the 1.1SE spec, and make the clippath example into a test case [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-07-08].
- 07:06:59 [heycam]
- Topic: ISSUE-2283 - Make it possible to get the bounding box of an element in a particular coordinate system
- 07:07:01 [heycam]
- ISSUE-2283?
- 07:07:01 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2283 -- Make it possible to get the bounding box of an element in a particular coordinate system -- RAISED
- 07:07:01 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2283
- 07:08:30 [heycam]
- CM: [essentially reads out the issue]
- 07:09:20 [heycam]
- ED: suggestion on how to do this?
- 07:09:22 [heycam]
- CM: three ways
- 07:09:33 [heycam]
- ... have SVGRect be transformable
- 07:09:53 [heycam]
- ... extend getBBox() with an argument
- 07:10:03 [heycam]
- ... or introduce a new getBBoxInAnotherElementsCoordSystem(elt)
- 07:10:11 [heycam]
- ED: people have asked for transformable SVGRect before
- 07:10:57 [heycam]
- CM: transforming an SVGRect might give you a quadrangle
- 07:11:02 [heycam]
- ... so the return type couldn't be another SVGRect
- 07:11:03 [eseidel]
- eseidel has joined #svg
- 07:11:48 [heycam]
- ED: you could return a rectangle but it wouldn't be the transformed rectangle
- 07:11:57 [heycam]
- CL: you could return a path
- 07:12:52 [heycam]
- JW: the first option, having SVGRect be transformable, i was dismissing out of hand
- 07:13:12 [heycam]
- ... you've no longer got tight bounds, if you want to still return a SVGRect
- 07:13:28 [heycam]
- ... for getBBox() i was hoping to pass in an argument for the different type of bounds (including fill, stroke, clipping)
- 07:13:37 [heycam]
- ... so i didn't want to pass in an Element argument to that
- 07:13:58 [heycam]
- ... i was thinking of something like the third option, but more like otherElement.getBBox(firstElement)
- 07:14:05 [heycam]
- s/getBBox/getBBoxOf/
- 07:14:16 [heycam]
- ... that allows getBBoxOf() to have the type-of-bounds argument
- 07:15:33 [heycam]
- CM: getBBoxOf() seems like the simplest solution
- 07:16:27 [heycam]
- ACTION: Cameron to add a proposal for getBBoxOf() to the proposals directory
- 07:16:28 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2629 - Add a proposal for getBBoxOf() to the proposals directory [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-07-08].
- 07:16:55 [heycam]
- Topic: ISSUE-2282 - Consider adding new path syntax for points on path
- 07:16:57 [heycam]
- ISSUE-2282?
- 07:16:57 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2282 -- Consider adding new path syntax for points on path -- RAISED
- 07:16:57 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2282
- 07:17:21 [heycam]
- ED: this is about new path syntax/interpolation
- 07:18:00 [heycam]
- CL: patrick gave us a bunch of math, but not sure that's good to go with
- 07:18:07 [heycam]
- ... not sure it's helps us concretely enough
- 07:18:11 [heycam]
- DS: yep
- 07:18:19 [heycam]
- CL: otoh he does have some java code that implements it
- 07:18:39 [heycam]
- AG: there is quite a bit to specify for it
- 07:18:56 [heycam]
- ... for example, when you have a bend in the curve where abouts in the curve does it go through the point
- 07:19:10 [heycam]
- ... or if you're trying to fit paths to points it can be tricky
- 07:19:25 [heycam]
- CL: normally with this kind of thing you can allow an amount of error, because it's not always possible get a solution
- 07:19:43 [heycam]
- ... which might be ok for a new element, but to add into existing path syntax it's hard to add parameters
- 07:20:05 [heycam]
- ... if you want to say "go through these points within 0.1 units" it's hard to pass that in with the current path syntax
- 07:20:40 [heycam]
- ED: anyone interested in looking at this? do we need to try to contact someone to make something from this?
- 07:21:02 [heycam]
- DS: i think it's potentially interesting, but i don't have the math to make it interesting enough to myself
- 07:21:11 [heycam]
- CL: too much conceptual gap between his math and what we need
- 07:21:19 [heycam]
- ... otoh i think he's quite interested in this
- 07:21:41 [heycam]
- ... so in general if you've got n points, what's the algorithm to produce the path?
- 07:21:49 [heycam]
- ... does it decompose into other curve segments?
- 07:21:56 [heycam]
- ... need to get patrick to explain what's entailed there
- 07:22:14 [heycam]
- DS: if i could see the java implementation, that would give me a better sense
- 07:22:39 [heycam]
- ... want to see two things: one, what such curves look like visually, and two what the syntax might be
- 07:23:09 [heycam]
- ... so i'd like to see a bunch of points have a path go through it in a predictable way
- 07:23:18 [heycam]
- ... maybe the syntax would just be like a <polyline>, but i don't know that
- 07:23:41 [heycam]
- CL: for a basic shape that's easy, we could have another attribute that says accuracy="whatever" with a default of 0, e.g.
- 07:23:52 [heycam]
- ... and other constraints, how tight the "cord" is pulled
- 07:24:03 [heycam]
- ... you could imagine floppy shapes and mostly straight line curves
- 07:24:10 [heycam]
- ... exactly the kind of thing the java testing app would help us see
- 07:24:34 [heycam]
- DS: another aspect is that i don't know how it deals with shapes where the line crosses itself several times
- 07:24:41 [heycam]
- ... don't know if that would lead to funky behaviour
- 07:24:59 [ed]
- http://www-personal.umich.edu/~pion/WebGeom/sketch-test5.html
- 07:25:17 [heycam]
- ED: that app isn't showing any nice curves
- 07:25:27 [heycam]
- DS: curves would be more interesting
- 07:25:45 [heycam]
- ... for a graph where you want to plot the points, for example
- 07:25:58 [heycam]
- CL: if the java applet doesn't do it, but he thinks it's simple, we could ask him to do it
- 07:27:21 [heycam]
- AG: this applet looks like the constraint stuff we were talking about, applying constraints to the movement
- 07:27:25 [heycam]
- ... and you get some sort of mechanical effect
- 07:27:55 [heycam]
- ACTION: Chris to contact Patrick Ion for an applet that demonstrates these curves
- 07:27:55 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2630 - Contact Patrick Ion for an applet that demonstrates these curves [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-07-08].
- 07:28:15 [heycam]
- AG: you could do some cool stuff with constraints on these curves
- 07:28:27 [heycam]
- Topic: ISSUE-2274 - Consider adding drag and drop functionality
- 07:28:29 [heycam]
- ISSUE-2274?
- 07:28:29 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2274 -- Consider adding drag and drop functionality -- RAISED
- 07:28:29 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2274
- 07:28:49 [heycam]
- ED: don't know if there's anything to discuss, but there should be an action to research what would be needed from svg
- 07:28:58 [heycam]
- ... this might be related to webapps work
- 07:29:32 [heycam]
- DS: drag and drop has been added to html5
- 07:29:40 [heycam]
- ... but not exactly in the way we'd want in svg
- 07:29:47 [heycam]
- ... in html5 is like a special kind of clipboard
- 07:29:51 [heycam]
- s/is like/it's like/
- 07:29:54 [heycam]
- ... so a copy/paste thing
- 07:30:13 [heycam]
- ... i'm thinking that the OP means (and i mean) is being able to drag and drop a shape around the screen
- 07:30:15 [heycam]
- ... moving it around
- 07:30:26 [heycam]
- ... two ways of doing it
- 07:30:33 [heycam]
- ... either have drag and drop attributes, e.g.
- 07:30:42 [heycam]
- ... or a constraints mechanism where they could say what to do with it
- 07:30:56 [heycam]
- ... pointer.x-5 and pointer.y-10
- 07:31:11 [heycam]
- ... enable people to do things based on the pointer position, not using script
- 07:31:27 [heycam]
- ... activation through smil
- 07:31:45 [heycam]
- ... so i think this is SVG specific
- 07:31:56 [heycam]
- CL: if it's going to interact with smil, you'd want it to raise events so you can say onblah
- 07:32:03 [heycam]
- DS: we could create drag and drop events
- 07:32:10 [heycam]
- ... that it would dispatch when it did that
- 07:32:11 [Zakim]
- -heycam
- 07:32:39 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 07:32:43 [heycam]
- Zakim, [ is me
- 07:32:43 [Zakim]
- +heycam; got it
- 07:33:20 [heycam]
- ... we could have it triggered on regular events mousedown, mousemove etc.
- 07:33:33 [heycam]
- ... if we did that, what we would need to do is also define how it works with a keyboard
- 07:33:38 [heycam]
- ... or some alternate pointer device
- 07:33:55 [heycam]
- ... so the more semantic thing would be grab/drag/drop
- 07:33:58 [heycam]
- ... however that's actuated
- 07:34:15 [heycam]
- ... making it accessible isn't particularly easy, i think
- 07:34:25 [heycam]
- JW: allowing drag&drop without script?
- 07:34:38 [heycam]
- CL: yes
- 07:34:49 [heycam]
- ... though i worry that it might get in the way of other things trying to affect the position
- 07:35:01 [heycam]
- DS: that could argue for real grab/drag/drop events
- 07:35:15 [heycam]
- CL: if you provide hooks then people can write script to make use of them as needed
- 07:35:24 [heycam]
- ... but if it's automatic, then it might get in the way of other things like link activation
- 07:35:38 [heycam]
- JW: that would be an issue, that it would need to set attributes x/y or whatever
- 07:36:10 [heycam]
- ... especially when we're just introducing calc() or more complex positioning, layout, it's going to become painful to define what happens when you have percentage plus pointer.x pixels
- 07:36:22 [ed]
- <animate begin="rect.mousedown" end="dropzone.mouseup" ...> is possible already
- 07:37:28 [shepazu]
- attributeName="cx" attributeValue="pointer.x+5"
- 07:37:35 [heycam]
- <animateTransformToPointer offsetX="..." offsetY="..." begin="rect.mousedown" end="rect.mouseup"/>
- 07:38:24 [heycam]
- CM: if it's a smil mechanism, it might make it easier to avoid competing things affecting the position of an object
- 07:38:33 [heycam]
- ED: sometimes you want the object to stay at its end point, sometimes to return
- 07:38:37 [heycam]
- DS: you could use fill="freeze" for that
- 07:38:49 [heycam]
- ... so this wouldn't solve all cases
- 07:39:06 [heycam]
- ... but for the cases where people want something really strange, i think that they could code something up
- 07:39:16 [heycam]
- ... would this cover say 50-70% of cases where people want to do dnd?
- 07:39:22 [heycam]
- ... my guess is yes
- 07:39:40 [heycam]
- ED: i don't know, all the cases i've seen you need to do some scripting or trigger server side actions
- 07:39:45 [heycam]
- ... depends on the use case
- 07:39:48 [heycam]
- DS: what use cases?
- 07:39:56 [heycam]
- ED: e.g. sorting some objects in some way and then storing it
- 07:40:23 [heycam]
- ... putting orders in a basket in a web shop
- 07:40:32 [heycam]
- JW: svg solitaire
- 07:40:56 [heycam]
- DS: in my mind, if you just had svg solitaire or putting items in a basket, both of those cases aren't asking for anyhting much special
- 07:41:00 [heycam]
- ... just moving the cards or the items
- 07:41:04 [heycam]
- s/anyhting/anything/
- 07:41:13 [heycam]
- JW: you need to drop near the cards
- 07:41:20 [heycam]
- DS: wouldn't say you wouldn't have to script the drag code
- 07:41:34 [heycam]
- ED: but i think you'd want to have script callbacks for dnd
- 07:41:39 [heycam]
- DS: you have those already for smil
- 07:41:45 [heycam]
- ED: you have the mouse events but don't know that it's drag/drop
- 07:41:51 [heycam]
- DS: could change that
- 07:41:52 [jwatt]
- s/you need to/you want to be able to/
- 07:42:16 [heycam]
- ... in the past bjoern wanted to be able to use arbitrary events in smil begin/end
- 07:42:33 [heycam]
- ... i think for 50-70% of the cases, dragging to move it around and then hooking that into script would handle it
- 07:42:43 [heycam]
- ... hard to think of anything funkier with dragging
- 07:43:01 [heycam]
- ... another case is if we wanted to allow people to have connectors and move nodes/edges around
- 07:43:15 [heycam]
- ... and have the connectors follow the shape, then we should try to solve that problem at the same time
- 07:43:29 [heycam]
- ... and it would be solved, if we had a way of saying "this line connects between these two shapes"
- 07:43:41 [heycam]
- ... then you would be able to drag things around and have the connectors follow
- 07:44:03 [heycam]
- ... i do think that even though it gets a little specialised, having that kind of functionality built in to svg solves a large number of use cases
- 07:44:11 [heycam]
- ... and it would make the language a lot more attractive to use
- 07:44:19 [heycam]
- ED: have you looked at the html5 dnd?
- 07:44:22 [heycam]
- DS: no but i should
- 07:44:29 [heycam]
- ED: i think that's also something that's in silverlight
- 07:44:36 [heycam]
- ... same type of specialised dnd events
- 07:44:52 [heycam]
- ... might be good to study those cases
- 07:46:16 [heycam]
- DS: not sure we're in a position yet to do anything about it
- 07:47:18 [heycam]
- ... i'm interested in this but there's so much other stuff to do
- 07:47:30 [heycam]
- ... i think we should come back to this
- 07:47:58 [heycam]
- JW: i think it's a fair bit of work to work out the events, how attributes get modified, etc.
- 07:48:10 [heycam]
- ... and since it's 10-20 lines to implement dnd in script, maybe we should be prioritising other things
- 07:48:22 [heycam]
- DS: one way to make it easier would be the "get the real point" stuff we talked about
- 07:48:36 [heycam]
- ... get the x/y position i care about, with transformations/ctm taken care of
- 07:48:50 [heycam]
- CL: that's more the kind of thing i was talking about. adding hooks to make it more easily implemented.
- 07:48:57 [heycam]
- DS: that stuff we'd need to resolve anyway if we were to do this
- 07:49:03 [heycam]
- ... since that's the behaviour people would want
- 07:49:07 [heycam]
- ... the "absolute" value of the mouse pointer
- 07:49:14 [heycam]
- ... so let's solve that part first
- 07:49:51 [heycam]
- Topic: SVG 1.1 test suite template conversion
- 07:50:06 [heycam]
- AG: pretty much all the tests are converted
- 07:50:12 [heycam]
- ... i'm just going through and verifying that they're all good
- 07:50:18 [heycam]
- ... just 30-odd tests left to check
- 07:50:21 [heycam]
- ... then i'll commit them all as a batch
- 07:50:37 [heycam]
- ... 335 tests all done
- 07:50:47 [heycam]
- ... should be done by the end of this week
- 07:50:55 [heycam]
- CM: sounds good
- 07:51:01 [heycam]
- AG: made some minor fixes to the xslt, it's working properly now
- 07:51:14 [heycam]
- ... we can use this and the new template for the svg core tests when the spec is on its way
- 07:51:18 [eseidel]
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- 07:51:21 [heycam]
- ... and for modules
- 07:51:47 [heycam]
- ED: if we make tests for modules we should use the 1.1F2 template?
- 07:51:57 [heycam]
- AG: or some variant?
- 07:52:20 [heycam]
- ... the template we use now for those tests might be ported across to modules etc.
- 07:52:24 [heycam]
- ... so it'd be good to decide
- 07:52:35 [heycam]
- ... the one we're using the 1.1F2 is very close to the 1.2T one
- 07:52:42 [heycam]
- ... apart from a couple of extra fields
- 07:52:48 [heycam]
- CL: it's using id instead of xml:id presumably?
- 07:52:49 [heycam]
- AG: yes
- 07:53:13 [heycam]
- CM: nothing specific to 1.1 that would prevent us from using that template for modules etc. would it?
- 07:53:24 [heycam]
- AG: no, it's usable for all modules
- 07:53:41 [heycam]
- ... the TestCase element, the bit that has all the metadata for the test, that bit is using xlink:href to reference into the spec
- 07:53:45 [heycam]
- ... that's the only odd thing it's doing
- 07:53:51 [heycam]
- ... otherwise it's the same as the tiny template
- 07:54:23 [heycam]
- CM: i don't know if it's useful to have xlink:href attribute named like that
- 07:54:33 [heycam]
- AG: it's on the TestComponent element
- 07:54:48 [heycam]
- ... so when we generate the harness it can generate an <a>
- 07:55:00 [heycam]
- CL: if it's being transformed anyway it doesn't matter what it's called
- 07:55:32 [heycam]
- ACTION: Anthony to draft the template for SVG 2.0 and modules and present it at the next telcon
- 07:55:32 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2631 - Draft the template for SVG 2.0 and modules and present it at the next telcon [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-07-08].
- 07:56:26 [heycam]
- Topic: RNG for 1.1
- 07:56:34 [heycam]
- DS: berjon is willing to help us out and give us guidance
- 07:56:43 [heycam]
- ... but not to do the whole thing
- 07:57:05 [heycam]
- ... he's pretty busy with other stuff too
- 07:57:34 [heycam]
- ... he can't join as vodafone rep
- 07:58:05 [heycam]
- ... he sent me a fairly detailed email and i'll ask if i can forward it on to us
- 08:06:23 [Zakim]
- -ed
- 08:06:24 [Zakim]
- -heycam
- 08:06:24 [Zakim]
- -anthony
- 08:06:26 [Zakim]
- -Doug_Schepers
- 08:06:27 [Zakim]
- -jwatt
- 08:06:28 [Zakim]
- -??P5
- 08:06:29 [Zakim]
- GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has ended
- 08:06:30 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Doug_Schepers, ed, heycam, anthony, jwatt, [IPcaller]
- 08:23:27 [ChrisL]
- Present: Doug_Schepers, ed, heycam, anthony, jwatt, ChrisL
- 08:23:45 [ChrisL]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 08:23:45 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
- 08:26:45 [shepazu]
- shepazu has joined #svg
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- heycam has joined #svg
- 08:42:12 [heycam]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 08:42:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-svg-minutes.html heycam
- 08:44:37 [heycam]
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- 08:44:49 [ChrisL]
- cam, http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/master/SVGColor.html#syntax
- 08:45:40 [heycam]
- ChrisL, thanks i'll take a look in a while
- 09:01:40 [ChrisL]
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- 10:55:29 [karl]
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