IRC log of ssn on 2009-07-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:42:06 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #ssn
19:42:06 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-irc
19:42:15 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #ssn
19:42:22 [Holger]: zakim, this will be INC_SSN
19:42:23 [Zakim]: ok, Holger; I see INC_SSN()4:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
19:42:35 [Holger]: ScribeNick: Holger
19:42:51 [Holger]: Meeting: SSN XG 01-July-2009
19:42:58 [Holger]: Chair: Holger
19:43:26 [Holger]: Topic: Amendment to last meeting - apologies
19:43:51 [Holger]: Simon, Victor, Krzysztof, Luis, Jesus, Fernando, Kevin
19:43:58 [Holger]: Topic: Apologies (today)
19:44:04 [Holger]: Simon, Francisco, Laurent, Amit Sheth
19:46:15 [Holger]: Topic: ---Meeting today dedicated to discussion of existing Ontologies---
19:46:35 [jgraybea]: jgraybea has joined #ssn
19:46:54 [jgraybea]: Hello Holger
19:47:03 [Holger]: Hi John
19:50:13 [jgraybea]: So we will use IRC, but not for the technical notes?
19:50:53 [Holger]: Yes, Michael will take the notes his way and put the PDF on the wiki
19:52:02 [jgraybea]: I would like to capture as much of the content as possible on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/SSN_Ontologies_Attributes
19:52:28 [jgraybea]: I will take those notes -- will that be OK with you and Holger? Or too redundant?
19:52:41 [Zakim]: INC_SSN()4:00PM has now started
19:52:48 [Zakim]: +Holger
19:53:04 [Danh_DERI]: Danh_DERI has joined #ssn
19:53:32 [Holger]: Notes can be too redundant ;-)
19:53:45 [Holger]: Notes CAN'T be too redundant ;-)
19:53:48 [Zakim]: + +1.831.775.aaaa
19:53:50 [Holger]: can't
19:54:49 [janowicz]: janowicz has joined #ssn
19:55:51 [Zakim]: + +1.585.919.aabb - is perhaps klanz
19:58:06 [krp]: krp has joined #ssn
19:58:11 [Rodrigo]: Rodrigo has joined #ssn
19:58:18 [jgraybea]: just to finish that thread for the log herre, we will defer updating the SSN Ontologies Attributes page to after the meeting
19:58:46 [Victor]: Victor has joined #ssn
19:58:54 [Victor]: hello!
19:59:03 [Zakim]: +krp
19:59:20 [Holger]: Hi Victor
19:59:47 [michael]: michael has joined #ssn
19:59:53 [Arthur]: Arthur has joined #ssn
20:00:35 [cory]: cory has joined #ssn
20:00:37 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
20:00:48 [Zakim]: +??P5
20:01:04 [Holger]: zakim, who's on the phone
20:01:04 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Holger
20:01:09 [Holger]: zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:09 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, [IPcaller], ??P5
20:01:14 [ocorcho]: ocorcho has joined #ssn
20:01:21 [michael]: zakim, ??P5 is michael
20:01:21 [Zakim]: +michael; got it
20:01:38 [Zakim]: +carlosI
20:01:43 [Holger]: zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:43 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, [IPcaller], michael, carlosI
20:01:50 [kerry]: kerry has joined #ssn
20:01:50 [Zakim]: +??P6
20:02:03 [Victor]: zakim, calosI is me
20:02:03 [Zakim]: sorry, Victor, I do not recognize a party named 'calosI'
20:02:10 [Victor]: zakim, carlosI is me
20:02:10 [Zakim]: +Victor; got it
20:02:16 [Zakim]: +??P10
20:02:25 [Zakim]: +cory
20:02:30 [Zakim]: + +1.202.408.aacc
20:02:35 [krzysztof_j]: zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:02:35 [Zakim]: +krzysztof_j; got it
20:02:48 [Holger]: zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:48 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, ??P6, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc
20:03:00 [Arthur]: +??P6 is me
20:03:17 [ocorcho]: zakim, who's on the phone
20:03:17 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', ocorcho
20:03:19 [Zakim]: +??P14
20:03:27 [ocorcho]: zakim, who's on the phone?
20:03:27 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, ??P6, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, ??P14
20:04:23 [Luis]: Luis has joined #ssn
20:04:43 [rgarcia]: rgarcia has joined #ssn
20:04:47 [Zakim]: +??P15
20:04:50 [Zakim]: + +34.98.439.aadd
20:05:23 [Rodrigo]: Zakim, 34.98.439.aadd is me
20:05:23 [Zakim]: sorry, Rodrigo, I do not recognize a party named '34.98.439.aadd'
20:05:25 [Holger]: Topic: CSIRO / SSN Ontology
20:05:29 [Rodrigo]: Zakim, +34.98.439.aadd is me
20:05:29 [Zakim]: +Rodrigo; got it
20:05:58 [Arthur]: zakim, +??P6 is me
20:05:58 [Zakim]: sorry, Arthur, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6'
20:06:23 [Arthur]: zakim, ??P6 is me
20:06:23 [Zakim]: +Arthur; got it
20:07:05 [rgarcia]: zakim, who's on the phone?
20:07:05 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, Arthur, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, ??P14, ??P15, Rodrigo
20:07:14 [Holger]: zakim, who is making noise?
20:07:21 [rgarcia]: zakim, mute
20:07:21 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'mute', rgarcia
20:07:24 [Zakim]: Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: klanz (26%), michael (84%), ??P10 (9%), ??P14 (16%), ??P15 (9%)
20:07:45 [rgarcia]: zakim, mute me
20:07:45 [Zakim]: sorry, rgarcia, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
20:08:21 [rgarcia]: zakim, ??P15 is me
20:08:21 [Zakim]: +rgarcia; got it
20:08:30 [rgarcia]: zakim, mute me
20:08:30 [Zakim]: rgarcia should now be muted
20:09:17 [Holger]: zakim, who is making noise?
20:09:23 [jgraybea]: @holger
20:09:29 [Zakim]: Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.831.775.aaaa (4%), klanz (39%), michael (46%), ??P10 (50%)
20:10:32 [ocorcho]: zakim, who's on the call?
20:10:32 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, Arthur, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, ??P14, rgarcia (muted), Rodrigo
20:10:44 [ocorcho]: zakim, ??P10 is me
20:10:44 [Zakim]: +ocorcho; got it
20:10:55 [jgraybea]: I think the background noise came on with Danh
20:11:09 [ocorcho]: zakim, mute me
20:11:09 [Zakim]: ocorcho should now be muted
20:11:29 [Holger]: zakim, who is making noise?
20:11:40 [Zakim]: Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.831.775.aaaa (49%), klanz (34%), michael (94%)
20:11:47 [krp]: Perhaps anyone who's not speaking could mute themselves, either on their handset or through zakim? (please!)
20:12:45 [Holger]: Topic: OntoSensor
20:12:53 [Zakim]: -??P14
20:13:11 [krzysztof_j]: zakim, mute me
20:13:11 [Zakim]: krzysztof_j should now be muted
20:14:14 [Zakim]: +??P14
20:14:26 [rgarcia]: zakim, ??P14 is me
20:14:26 [Zakim]: +rgarcia; got it
20:14:42 [rgarcia]: zakim, mute me
20:14:42 [Zakim]: rgarcia was already muted, rgarcia
20:15:33 [michael]: I can load onto sensor in Protege3.3.1, but the sumo import doesn't work.
20:16:17 [ocorcho]: I think that the problem is that it is using old OWL syntax
20:16:24 [ocorcho]: the one that was candidate recommendation in 2003
20:16:37 [ocorcho]: at least I see rdfs:subClassOf descriptions in the text file
20:19:36 [Holger]: Topic: SWAMO
20:23:45 [rgarcia]: zakim, unmute me
20:23:45 [Zakim]: rgarcia should no longer be muted
20:24:03 [Holger]: Topic: MCRLab SUMO
20:24:27 [ocorcho]: rgarcia is working with me at UPM
20:29:32 [rgarcia]: zakim, mute me
20:29:32 [Zakim]: rgarcia should now be muted
20:29:35 [Holger]: Topic: MMI Device Ontology
20:33:11 [Holger]: Topic: SensorML Processes
20:34:00 [ocorcho]: I think that on this specific type of model we could also take a look at things like SUMO. Probably they many of these things defined. Just a thought
20:35:48 [Holger]: Topic: CESN\
20:38:34 [ocorcho]: is it true that a sensor can only measure one property? Isn't that a very restricted view?
20:39:10 [jgraybea]: it is typically in the vocabulary of the definer (some think of sensor at transducer level)
20:39:31 [ocorcho]: ok
20:40:02 [Holger]: Topic: OOSTethys
20:44:10 [ocorcho]: zakim, unmute me
20:44:10 [Zakim]: ocorcho should no longer be muted
20:44:20 [Holger]: Topic: WISNO
20:46:50 [ocorcho]: zakim, mute me
20:46:50 [Zakim]: ocorcho should now be muted
20:46:53 [Holger]: Topic: A3ME ontology
20:47:49 [Holger]: zakim, mute me
20:47:49 [Zakim]: Holger should now be muted
20:48:37 [Holger]: zakim, unmute me
20:48:37 [Zakim]: Holger should no longer be muted
20:49:30 [krzysztof_j]: zakim, unmute me
20:49:30 [Zakim]: krzysztof_j should no longer be muted
20:50:53 [Holger]: Topic: Stimuli-centered ontology
20:56:46 [Holger]: Topic: General discussion
21:01:37 [Zakim]: -ocorcho
21:02:12 [kerry]: kerry has joined #ssn
21:02:18 [krzysztof_j]: +q
21:02:24 [kerry]: +q
21:03:29 [ocorcho]: I am trying to access the conference call again and the system tells me that it is restricted
21:03:35 [ocorcho]: is that for everybody?
21:04:03 [kerry]: could mean we already have 15 people
21:04:20 [Holger]: the hour has passed...
21:04:28 [krp]: +q
21:04:34 [kerry]: i am listening, but maybe cant be heard
21:04:38 [krzysztof_j]: -q
21:04:45 [ocorcho]: ok. I will be looking for minutes.. Sorry that I am missing this part where I wanted to contribute
21:04:49 [ocorcho]: as well
21:04:51 [Luis]: +q
21:04:59 [kerry]: i have reviewd liu 2005 before
21:05:32 [jgraybea]: Krzysztof suggests that we consider what we want to do before identifying preferred starting point
21:05:35 [michael]: Oscar - write an email to the list and we'll make sure the input is included
21:05:50 [kerry]: zakim, unmute me
21:05:50 [Zakim]: sorry, kerry, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
21:06:25 [Holger]: zakim, who's on the phone?
21:06:25 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, Arthur, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, rgarcia (muted), Rodrigo, rgarcia.a
21:06:43 [jgraybea]: 775.aaaa is graybeal
21:07:24 [kerry]: zakim, 408.aacc is me
21:07:24 [Zakim]: sorry, kerry, I do not recognize a party named '408.aacc'
21:07:55 [kerry]: zakim, +1.202.408.aacc is me
21:07:55 [Zakim]: +kerry; got it
21:08:06 [kerry]: zakim, unmute kerry
21:08:06 [Zakim]: kerry was not muted, kerry
21:08:31 [kerry]: no..
21:08:43 [kerry]: not working for me today
21:08:45 [michael]: +q
21:08:54 [kerry]: i have reviewd liu 2005 before
21:09:03 [krzysztof_j]: zakim, mute me
21:09:03 [Zakim]: krzysztof_j should now be muted
21:09:11 [kerry]: can provideshort summary
21:10:25 [kerry]: q
21:10:28 [kerry]: -q
21:10:40 [krp]: -q
21:10:47 [Holger]: ack Luis
21:10:53 [Holger]: ack michael
21:12:12 [jgraybea]: it appears property adoption would be straightforward in many cases, but more fundamental structural issues may be harder to address
21:13:15 [Arthur]: +q
21:13:19 [krp]: +q
21:13:44 [jgraybea]: structural issues could include composition, observations, real time information, sensors as stimulus
21:14:16 [krzysztof_j]: ack
21:14:27 [jgraybea]: suggestion of core specification widely usable, and expanded version with more extensive characteristics
21:14:48 [Holger]: ack Arthur
21:14:54 [Holger]: ack krp
21:16:04 [michael]: +q
21:16:18 [jgraybea]: krp: make sure we can ensure positioning of data from the sensors, and so forth
21:16:23 [Holger]: ack michael
21:16:52 [jgraybea]: michael: in some sense data/observations and sensors should be equally first class
21:17:52 [krzysztof_j]: we do
21:17:53 [cory]: +q
21:17:56 [cory]: we do too
21:18:04 [Danh_DERI]: we do too
21:18:10 [Luis]: +q
21:18:21 [Holger]: ack cory
21:18:38 [Danh_DERI]: +q
21:18:43 [Holger]: ack Luis
21:18:57 [krzysztof_j]: ack
21:19:33 [jgraybea]: observations are of critical interest but (as noted above) many ontologies of them exist (SONET has list)
21:20:18 [jgraybea]: SWE trying to abstract common observation model
21:20:20 [Holger]: ack Danh_DERI
21:23:15 [kerry]: +1
21:23:52 [krzysztof_j]: we can start working on the ensor ontology but should keep the observation part in mind
21:23:54 [jgraybea]: the question is whether we could start with CSIRO and build on to that with other content
21:24:11 [michael]: I think that sounds sensible.
21:24:16 [Holger]: +1
21:24:16 [krzysztof_j]: and connect/align the ontologies later
21:24:29 [krp]: Yes, sounds sensible.
21:25:28 [Zakim]: -klanz
21:25:48 [Holger]: Action: all_presenters to edit http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/SSN_Ontologies_Attributes for their presented ontology(ies)
21:25:59 [jgraybea]: yes, I suggest we start with that but treat any 'conflicts' with the other ontologies as possible structure issues (add them to the issues list)
21:26:09 [Danh_DERI]: sorry, I was kicked out
21:26:11 [Holger]: Action: Michael and John to put detailed minutes on the wiki
21:28:43 [kerry]: bye, I have to go now. Neither the phone nor the IRC worked properly for me today...good content if only i had heard it. thanks
21:29:00 [Zakim]: -rgarcia
21:29:22 [Zakim]: -Victor
21:29:25 [krzysztof_j]: zakim, bye
21:29:25 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, +1.585.919.aabb, krp, michael, Victor, cory, krzysztof_j, Rodrigo, Arthur, rgarcia, ocorcho, kerry
21:29:25 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #ssn
21:29:33 [krzysztof_j]: bye
21:29:36 [Luis]: bye
21:29:41 [rgarcia]: rgarcia has left #ssn
21:29:45 [Holger]: rrsagent, make log public
21:29:53 [Holger]: rrsagent, draft minutes
21:29:53 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-minutes.html Holger
21:30:09 [Arthur]: Arthur has left #ssn
21:30:14 [Holger]: rrsagent, bye
21:30:14 [RRSAgent]: I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-actions.rdf :
21:30:14 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: all_presenters to edit http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/SSN_Ontologies_Attributes for their presented ontology(ies) [1]
21:30:14 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-irc#T21-25-48
21:30:14 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Michael and John to put detailed minutes on the wiki [2]
21:30:14 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-irc#T21-26-11