19:31:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:31:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/30-ws-ra-irc
19:31:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:31:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:31:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:31:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:31:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:31:09 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2009
19:31:27 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
19:31:41 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:31:43 <Zakim> + +984999aabb
19:32:03 <asir> asir has joined #ws-ra
19:32:21 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
19:32:40 <Bob> zakim, aabb is Sreed
19:32:40 <Zakim> +Sreed; got it
19:32:43 <Zakim> +Gilbert
19:32:44 <Zakim> +??P11
19:32:50 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-ra
19:34:13 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
19:36:01 <Bob> Scribe: Wu Chou
19:36:27 <Bob> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jun/0059.html
19:37:12 <Wu> Agenda agreed
19:37:35 <Wu> minutes approved
19:37:57 <Zakim> +Yves
19:38:35 <Wu> August F2F hosted by Microsoft
19:39:20 <Wu> asir: need the list of people who attend and will provide local information
19:40:22 <dug> LOL firm maybe - I love it
19:40:23 <Wu> bob: England F2F meeting - who thinks to attend - a quick call
19:40:58 <Wu> Asir: yes
19:41:17 <Wu> dug: someone will be there from IBM
19:41:22 <Wu> dave: yes
19:41:30 <Wu> fred: No
19:41:36 <Wu> Gil: yes
19:41:45 <Wu> Li: no
19:42:12 <Wu> Mark: will you attend?
19:42:36 <Wu> Ram: yes 
19:42:37 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
19:42:48 <Wu> tom: no
19:42:54 <Wu> wu: yes
19:42:55 <Yves> Yves: yes
19:43:15 <DaveS> Dave: Yes
19:43:18 <dug> zakim, who is making noise?
19:43:32 <Zakim> dug, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (26%), Gilbert (77%), Yves (11%)
19:43:37 <dug> gil!
19:43:40 <gpilz> sorry my headset
19:44:04 <Wu> 10 or more will attend F2F at England
19:44:18 <gpilz> zakim, unmute gil
19:44:18 <Zakim> Gilbert should no longer be muted
19:44:43 <Wu> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7068 
19:45:48 <Wu> issue 7068 accepted and Doug is the owner
19:46:16 <Wu> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7068 
19:46:18 <dug>   This specification defines one ContentDescription URI, 
19:46:20 <dug> http://.../ContentDescription/Literal, which can be used to convey to the 
19:46:22 <dug> service that the children of the wst:Create element are not instructions 
19:46:23 <dug> but rather are to be taken as the literal resource representation of the 
19:46:24 <dug> new resource.
19:47:38 <Wu> asir: there is another issue related to literal representation, what is the relation?
19:47:50 <Wu> dug: this another issue
19:47:55 <Wu> asir: no dependency
19:47:58 <Wu> dug: yes
19:48:13 <Wu> asir: would like more time
19:49:03 <Bob> Topic: 6699
19:49:23 <Wu> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6699 
19:50:44 <Wu> dug: remove this feature from RT
19:50:47 <asir> q+
19:51:19 <Bob> ack asir
19:51:27 <Wu> ashok: this feature is abou resource not fragment.
19:51:48 <Wu> asir: we are fine to drop this feature from RT.
19:52:01 <Wu> Bob: this feature will be droped from RT (resolution)
19:52:26 <gpilz> zakim, who is making noise?
19:52:36 <Zakim> gpilz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Doug_Davis (9%), Bob_Freund (70%), Ashok_Malhotra (5%)
19:52:55 <Wu> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7039 
19:52:58 <Bob> Topic: 7039
19:53:55 <Wu> dug: examing inside EPR is problem. The identifier should be removed.
19:53:57 <gpilz> +q
19:54:15 <Bob> ack gp
19:54:47 <asir> q+
19:54:47 <dug> q+
19:54:59 <dug> Implementations of Event Sources, or Subscription Managers, MUST NOT assume that this reference parameter will be used.
19:55:06 <Wu> gpilz: prefer to address this issue with some clarifying text in addition to remove it
19:55:15 <Bob> ack asir
19:55:28 <gpilz> s/in addition/as opposed/
19:55:28 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
19:55:30 <Bob> ack dug
19:55:38 <Wu> asir: my suggestion is in line with Gil to clarifying it.
19:56:16 <asir> q+
19:56:17 <Wu> dug: add some text e.g. implementation ...
19:56:18 <DaveS> +
19:56:21 <DaveS> q+
19:56:24 <Bob> ack asir
19:56:41 <dug> I can live with #2 but I reserve the right to say "I told you so" later  :-)
19:56:46 <Wu> asir: close it with some email if all agree with clarifying text
19:56:55 <Bob> ack dave
19:57:23 <dug> +q
19:57:33 <Bob> ack dug
19:57:41 <Wu> dave: would like to live option 1
19:57:59 <chad> chad has joined #ws-ra
19:59:19 <Wu> bob: two choices - remove+some clarifying text (thumb up) or delete it (down)
19:59:28 <Wu> asir: up
19:59:32 <Wu> dug: down
19:59:35 <Wu> dave: down
19:59:40 <Wu> fred: abstain
19:59:45 <Wu> gil: down
20:00:00 <dug> LOL
20:00:14 <Wu> li: down
20:00:23 <Wu> ram: up
20:00:48 <Wu> reed: down
20:01:01 <Wu> tom: down
20:01:16 <Ashok> s/reed/sreed/
20:01:19 <Wu> yeve: abstain
20:01:33 <Wu> bob: more down than up 
20:02:01 <Wu> asir: my suggestion looking at proposal more
20:02:22 <DaveS> q+
20:02:35 <Bob> ack dave
20:03:06 <gpilz> q+
20:03:07 <Wu> DaveS: like to know the value to bother proposal up
20:04:25 <Bob> ack gp
20:04:26 <Wu> asir: Iook at the Primer example
20:04:28 <DaveS> Do we have a link for the primer?
20:05:20 <Wu> gpilz: logically cannot be any interoperablity issue by removing this identifier.
20:05:30 <asir> Please see section 6.3 in http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/9/01/UnderstandingWebServiceResourceAccess.pdf
20:06:03 <dug> q+
20:06:10 <Bob> ack dug
20:06:17 <asir> q+
20:07:52 <Wu> dug: agree with Gill
20:08:07 <Wu> asir: posted the link to the use case to irc
20:08:26 <Bob> ack asir
20:08:30 <dug> q+
20:08:38 <Wu> asir: Section 6.3 use case
20:08:48 <Bob> ack dug
20:09:27 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
20:09:37 <gpilz> wsu:Id
20:09:38 <Wu> dug: use case does not say it must be this identifier. Otherwise, it will be a problem.
20:09:41 <DaveS> q+
20:09:44 <dug> or a query param  :-)
20:09:48 <Bob> ack dave
20:09:49 <asir> q+
20:10:15 <Wu> DaveS: it looks like a topic for Primer, not for the specs.
20:10:24 <Bob> ack asir
20:10:55 <DaveS> +1
20:10:56 <dug> +1 gil - it can't be about interop
20:11:02 <Bob> +1
20:11:41 <asir> q+
20:11:47 <Wu> Bob: more discussion on this point?
20:11:52 <Bob> ack asir
20:12:02 <Wu> asir: I would like to look further 
20:12:07 <Wu> Bob: next week?
20:13:37 <Bob> Topic: 6692
20:14:09 <Zakim> -Mark_Little
20:14:54 <dug> q+
20:15:17 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
20:16:07 <DaveS> [My network here in Japan keeps droping the IRC, so next time it goes, I'll just leave it.]
20:16:27 <gpilz> is there a link to this doc?
20:16:32 <li> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jun/0052.html
20:16:33 <Wu> asir: presenting the proposal based on F2F WG decision - using Qname and remove mode
20:22:20 <gpilz> q+
20:22:24 <Wu> asir: At high level, retain the delivery element, delete mode, using Qname, etc. 
20:23:08 <Bob> ack dug
20:24:10 <asir> q+
20:24:21 <Wu> dug: some sections are really nice. agree delivery element. Questions about delivery pattern.
20:26:08 <Wu> dug: delivery pattern adding a level of complexity. I have a draft proposal.
20:26:20 <Bob> ack gp
20:28:04 <Wu> gpilz: ws-eventing may not have a lot of control on extension works. 
20:28:23 <TomRutt> q+
20:28:32 <Bob> ack asir
20:28:40 <dug> q+
20:29:39 <Wu> asir: we are open to the name of delivery pattern. 
20:30:00 <Bob> ack tom
20:30:01 <Wu> bob: Qname is the agreed direction at F2F
20:30:59 <Wu> tom: dug rewording has a delivery element further down
20:31:25 <Wu> q+
20:32:41 <Zakim> -Sreed
20:32:50 <Bob> ack wu
20:33:07 <li> wu: we need to read more about doug's proposal
20:33:23 <asir> q+
20:33:52 <Bob> ack asir
20:34:04 <dug> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/9/06/wseventing-DeliveryElement.html
20:34:14 <Wu> asir: push mode is gone in doug proposal
20:34:42 <Wu> dug: present his proposal. 
20:39:26 <asir> q+
20:39:59 <Bob> ack dug
20:40:21 <li> li has joined #ws-ra
20:41:06 <Wu> bob: if Geoff and Doug can work together to address the differences
20:41:47 <dug> orange armband?
20:42:47 <Wu> bob: let's move on to issue 6413
20:43:09 <Bob> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jun/0070.html
20:45:48 <Wu> bob: introduce his findings
20:46:03 <dug> q+
20:46:25 <Ram> q+
20:47:12 <Bob> ack asir
20:47:22 <dug> q-
20:47:49 <Bob> ack ram
20:47:59 <Wu> DaveS: I am quite happy with this.
20:48:48 <asir> q+
20:49:00 <Wu> ram: would like to see some concrete proposal
20:49:44 <Bob> ack asir
20:49:47 <Wu> dug: 1 and 3 may be o.k., 2 needs details. he can live with it
20:50:51 <Bob> ack yves
20:50:58 <Wu> asir: we are currently exploring these options, need concrete proposal
20:51:36 <Wu> yeves: preferable for a separate specs 
20:51:39 <asir> +1 to separate spec for frags and link it to Transfer
20:52:18 <asir> agree that we need a concrete proposal
20:52:24 <Wu> yeves: need a better details to move forward
20:52:53 <Wu> bob: can folk to live with point 1 and 3?
20:53:02 <Wu> asir: we can live with 2 and 3.
20:53:52 <Wu> asir: can we have one more week to look into these options?
20:53:57 <Wu> bob: o.k.
20:54:33 <Wu> bob: let's spend a little time talking 6917
20:56:51 <Wu> gpilz: my proposal 6401 may help this issue.
20:57:08 <Wu> bob: do we agree the problem statement?
20:58:03 <Wu> bob: we should not preclude topic
20:58:19 <li> i made some use cases here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009May/0176.html
20:59:19 <Wu> dug: i do not view this an optimization, may or may not be faster
21:00:02 <Wu> bob: Li can you start to push forward on this?
21:01:23 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
21:01:43 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
21:01:53 <Zakim> -Wu_Chou
21:01:54 <Zakim> -Yves
21:01:54 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:01:55 <Zakim> -fmaciel
21:01:55 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
21:01:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/30-ws-ra-minutes.html Yves
21:01:57 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis
21:02:02 <Zakim> -??P11
21:02:04 <Zakim> - +0207827aaaa
21:02:52 <TomRutt> TomRutt has left #ws-ra
21:04:00 <Yves> trackbot, end call
21:04:00 <trackbot> Sorry, Yves, I don't understand 'trackbot, end call'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
21:04:24 <Yves> trackbot, end telcon
21:04:24 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
21:04:24 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Doug_Davis, fmaciel, +0207827aaaa, Bob_Freund, Wu_Chou, Mark_Little, Ashok_Malhotra, [Microsoft], +984999aabb, Tom_Rutt, Sreed, Gilbert,
21:04:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/30-ws-ra-minutes.html trackbot
21:04:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
21:04:26 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
21:04:28 <Zakim> ... Yves