14:51:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:51:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc
14:51:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:51:50 <msporny> zakim, this will be rdfa
14:51:50 <Zakim> ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
14:52:36 <msporny> Can anybody other than Ralph or I scribe today?
14:53:37 <msporny> Present: Manu_Sporny
14:53:51 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
14:54:02 <msporny> Chair: Manu_Sporny
14:55:02 <msporny> previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-rdfa-minutes.html
14:55:15 <msporny> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jun/0049.html
14:55:59 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public
14:56:09 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:56:44 <Steven> Present+Steven(irc)
14:58:37 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:58:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:59:38 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
15:00:28 <markbirbeck> Hi everyone. I've just sent my apologies, because I'm going to have to leave the office in about 10 minutes for school parents' evening. :)
15:00:57 <Steven> (and he smiles about ti)
15:01:24 <msporny> We'll let our imaginations run wild as to what happened at SemTech 2009 :)
15:01:38 <msporny> Steven, you were there, right?
15:01:51 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:55 <msporny> zakim, code
15:01:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', msporny
15:01:58 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:02:01 <Steven> only on irc
15:02:01 <msporny> zakim, number
15:02:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'number', msporny
15:02:10 <Steven> zakim, code?
15:02:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
15:02:21 <Steven> I'm scribing another call now
15:03:16 <markbirbeck> @msporny: It was everything we could have hoped for...and more. ;)
15:03:21 <Zakim> +??P9
15:03:36 <ShaneM> skype's gone mad here again.  working on it
15:04:24 <Zakim> +McCarron
15:04:26 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P9
15:04:30 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:05:01 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is me
15:05:01 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:06:13 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
15:06:52 <msporny> Present+ Ben_Adida, Shane_McCarron
15:06:59 <msporny> Regrets: Mark_Birbeck
15:08:26 <msporny> Topic: Action Items
15:08:31 <msporny> Manu: Can we drop most of these action items?
15:09:21 <msporny> Ben: Maybe, we should be start nagging/dropping stuff aggressively.
15:09:32 <msporny> ACTION: Ben to prepare "how to write RDFa" screencast with fragment parser [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
15:09:37 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:09:45 <msporny> ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
15:09:47 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:09:54 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
15:09:56 <msporny> -- DROP
15:10:06 <msporny> Manu: I'm going to do that in due time, no need to review every week.
15:10:13 <msporny> ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:10:23 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:10:33 <msporny> ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:10:37 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:10:45 <msporny> ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
15:10:47 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:11:00 <msporny> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
15:11:02 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:11:10 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph find the statement on test suite copyright [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
15:11:12 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:11:19 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph make a request for an RDFa issue tracker instance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:11:21 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:11:29 <msporny> Ben: We need to start moving faster
15:11:36 <msporny> Ben: We need to utilize telecon time better
15:11:51 <msporny> Ben: So, I'm going to concentrate on focusing more on moving us forward.
15:12:01 <msporny> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
15:12:02 <msporny> -- DROP
15:12:22 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in http://www.w3ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01].org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
15:12:24 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:12:32 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
15:12:35 <msporny> -- CONTINUES
15:13:21 <msporny> Ben: We may want to delay discussion on some things until we have a good proposal on the table
15:13:40 <msporny> Ben: We could end up discussing something for too long on the call and wasting time doing a group brainstorm
15:13:46 <msporny> Ben: let's forget the charter for today.
15:13:57 <msporny> Ben: Do you guys have feedback on the charter?
15:13:59 <msporny> Manu: No
15:14:01 <msporny> Shane: No
15:15:00 <msporny> Ben: Then let's not talk about the RDFa IG charter.
15:27:02 <msporny> Ben: Looks like our priorities are RDFa IG charter first and creating an HTML+RDFa spec
15:27:31 <msporny> Ben: Let's look at the issues.
15:27:37 <msporny> Topic: RDFa Signalling Mechanism
15:28:01 <msporny> Manu: Sam Ruby requested that this be moved way up the list
15:28:05 <msporny> http://rdfa.info/wiki/rdfa-in-html-issues#RDFa_Task_Force_Discussion_Order
15:30:21 <msporny> Ben: If there are vendors that disagree with the notion that if something is served with text/html that it be parsed with html5lib?
15:30:25 <ShaneM> did you look at this: http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/rdfa-html/#sec_1.1.
15:30:30 <markbirbeck> Sorry I can't be there, but I had an idea on this: <link rel="meta" href="" type="text/html" /> That would allow you to (a) point to some other document as the source of RDFa (which is handy anyway), and (b) point to 'self' as the source of RDFa, which effectively means 'I contain RDFa'. It uses the same mechanism that the Linked Data world uses (@rel="meta"), but instead of the MIME type being RDF/XML, it's HTML.
15:30:40 <markbirbeck> Got to dash...bye.
15:30:57 <ShaneM> bye
15:33:05 <msporny> Shane: Doesn't this come down to a dialect issue?
15:33:29 <msporny> Shane: If I use the announcement mechanism for HTML4, then I'm in HTML4.
15:33:42 <msporny> Ben: The browsers already have to do this.
15:34:43 <msporny> Ben: So, how can we do anything other than "whatever HTML5 says for triggering HTML5lib"?
15:35:15 <msporny> Shane: Whatever announcement mechanism you want is fine - RDFa shouldn't get involved in that aspect.
15:36:59 <msporny> Ben: We should be loose about this - whatever DOM tree you end up with, you pass to the RDFa processor.
15:37:03 <msporny> Manu: Right.
15:37:57 <msporny> Manu: I think Sam Ruby et al would be okay with that.
15:39:11 <msporny> Ben: Mark's proposal is interesting
15:39:31 <msporny> Ben: Linking to yourself as meta is an extra flag that can make things more efficient for parsers...
15:39:36 <msporny> Shane: That's not how I took that.
15:40:02 <msporny> Shane: I took it to mean, if I'm a follow-your-nose parser, I should follow that @rel... I can use it to point to myself.
15:40:33 <msporny> Manu: I don't think we should have more signaling mechanisms.
15:42:00 <benadida> Manu: I don't think we need any more way to signal presence of RDFa.
15:42:03 <benadida> +1
15:43:28 <msporny> Shane: More interesting is rel="meta" href="" and type="text/application+xml"
15:44:26 <msporny> Shane: you can force the RDFa processor to process as xhtml
15:44:48 <msporny> Shane: I think it's cool, and it would work - not that we should make that a best practice.
15:45:25 <msporny> Ben: Somebody could put that in today, so we don't really need to say anything about that.
15:46:13 <msporny> Ben: It's an interesting thing to note, but we probably shouldn't do anything with it.
15:47:13 <msporny> Ben: Proposed resolution for this issue.
15:47:31 <msporny> Ben: We can't override what the HTML5 spec will say, so it's out of our hands how the model is built.
15:47:49 <msporny> Manu: I think that should be good with Sam.
15:47:58 <msporny> Topic: Cutting features for HTML+RDFa
15:49:06 <msporny> Manu: xmlns: and XMLLiteral are the only two things that may need to be cut, but doing so for both of them is arguable.
15:49:24 <msporny> Ben: I agree about XMLLiteral, xmlns: has no argument for it to be cut.
15:49:50 <msporny> Ben: The rules are inconsistent between XHTML and HTML.
15:51:07 <msporny> Manu: xmlns: is toxic, it's a political issue, not a technical one.
15:52:12 <msporny> Shane: XMLLiteral might not be an issue - it's in a DOM, therefore it can be serialized as XML.
15:52:21 <msporny> Shane: It's canonical when you get it into a tree model.
15:52:25 <msporny> Manu: Agreed.
15:52:29 <msporny> Ben: +1
15:53:25 <msporny> Ben: Editing the wiki to note these discussions...
15:54:48 <msporny> Ben: Meeting every week now, let see if we can make it.
15:55:07 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:55:09 <Zakim> -msporny
15:55:10 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
15:55:10 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
15:55:11 <Zakim> Attendees were Ben_Adida, msporny, ShaneM
15:55:27 <msporny> Regrets+ Michael_Hausenblas
15:57:35 <ShaneM> ShaneM has left #rdfa
15:57:42 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
15:58:09 <msporny> zakim, bye
15:58:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
15:59:09 <msporny> Chair: Ben_Adida
16:02:53 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
16:02:59 <msporny> rrsagent, bye
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-actions.rdf :
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to prepare "how to write RDFa" screencast with fragment parser [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action05] [1]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-09-32
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [2]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-09-45
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [3]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-09-54
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [4]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-10-13
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [5]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-10-33
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [6]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-10-45
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [7]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-11-00
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph find the statement on test suite copyright [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [8]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-11-10
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph make a request for an RDFa issue tracker instance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [9]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-11-19
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [10]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-12-01
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in http://www.w3ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01].org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [11]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-12-22
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [12]
16:02:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/25-rdfa-irc#T15-12-32