20:59:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webapps
20:59:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-webapps-irc
20:59:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:59:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webapps
20:59:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAPP
20:59:28 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
20:59:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
20:59:29 <trackbot> Date: 24 June 2009
21:00:07 <shepazu> Zakim, this will be DOM3
21:00:07 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM scheduled to start now
21:00:18 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM has now started
21:00:19 <Zakim> +Shepazu
21:02:55 <dand> dand has joined #webapps
21:03:11 <dand> hey guys
21:03:22 <shepazu> hi, dand 
21:03:43 <dand> how's it going
21:03:52 <dand> is there a www-dom telecon now? or next week?
21:03:58 <shepazu> the chair forgot to send out the agenda, so I'm not sure who's going to show
21:04:38 <dand> no probs
21:04:45 <dand> should i dial in? or hang out here and wait first
21:04:47 <shepazu> I'm on the line, but if we don't have a few other people show up in the next 10 minutes, we should postpone until next week
21:04:56 <dand> ok
21:05:06 <shepazu> well, if you can call in, I can bring you up to speed
21:05:12 <shepazu> Zakim, code
21:05:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', shepazu
21:05:20 <shepazu> Zakim, code?
21:05:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shepazu
21:05:27 <shepazu> trackbot, code?
21:05:27 <trackbot> Sorry, shepazu, I don't understand 'trackbot, code?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
21:08:28 <Zakim> +??P0
21:08:30 <Zakim> +??P1
21:08:44 <Travis> Travis has joined #webapps
21:09:04 <dand> can't hear you guys too great
21:10:07 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P0 is dand 
21:10:07 <Zakim> +dand; got it
21:10:21 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P1 is Travis 
21:10:21 <Zakim> +Travis; got it
21:12:04 <MSjacob> MSjacob has joined #webapps
21:12:23 <shepazu> zakim, Travis has MSjacob 
21:12:23 <Zakim> +MSjacob; got it
21:12:25 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/
21:12:38 <Zakim> +??P2
21:12:49 <smaug> Zakim, ??P2 is me
21:12:49 <Zakim> +smaug; got it
21:15:12 <Travis> Short telecon today
21:16:52 <Travis> shepazu: Recap: goal of the different key event flows is to find a harmoneous graph that best for user agents.
21:17:06 <shepazu> Travis: scribenick
21:17:19 <shepazu> scribenick: Travis
21:17:38 <Travis> ... Not likely to spec (solve) the IME model.
21:18:17 <Travis> ... Planning to publish the different models as appendices to the spec.
21:19:08 <darobin> darobin has joined #webapps
21:19:34 <Travis> ... Key models missing the mutation event points (where they fire) or where the DOM is modified (in user agents without mutation events)
21:19:47 <Travis> ... Still need to hear from WebKit.
21:21:00 <Travis> dand: I think Webkit's model is probably pretty close to Trident's
21:21:22 <Travis> ... I have some people that I could contact.
21:21:22 <dand> yep
21:22:20 <Travis> Topic: IME events from DOM Mailing list
21:22:39 <Travis> shepazu: Some disccusion on the mailing list regarding IME.
21:25:22 <Travis> Travis: two problems that they wanted to solve.
21:25:45 <Travis> ... the composition box appears in random places and can occude important web page elements (like search suggestions)
21:26:15 <Travis> ... other is that all user agents should implement compositionstart and compositionend events. Though, I'm not sure why?
21:26:58 <Travis> dand: Not necessarily that those physical events are important, but that they do what you need...
21:27:35 <Travis> ... only get fired for IME inputs (don't necessarily have to do with key events).
21:27:55 <Travis> ... In IE you don't get notified of some events...
21:28:09 <Travis> ... using voice or other you may get spotty notification.
21:29:41 <Travis> ... Firefox's compositionstart event allows you to change the DOM and place the cursor in a new location, then the actual input will occur in the new location.
21:30:14 <Travis> ... nice to grap input and contain it to a particular place in the DOM.
21:31:01 <Travis> ... In general, knowing when the composition finishes is useful because you can respond to user activity when the fully composed string.
21:31:19 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#events-Events-TextEvent
21:32:40 <annevk> annevk has joined #webapps
21:33:14 <Travis> Travis: Does the textInput event handle these use cases...?
21:34:08 <Travis> dand: compositionend could be like textInput, but the compositionstart event is still important.
21:36:03 <dand> http://www.danilatos.com/event-test/ExperimentTest.html
21:36:36 <Travis> shepazu: textInput does not say where the textInput came from. Maybe it could (IME, key, voice, etc.)?
21:37:19 <Travis> ... (random idea) for positioning of the IME candidate window, we could possibly put an X/Y event for where the IME window came up...
21:38:14 <Travis> dand: Hmm, maybe this could get more complicated...
21:38:46 <Travis> shepazu: We'll see if implementors want to do that. Don't want to jump into UI necessarily..
21:44:18 <shepazu> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-June/020553.html
21:46:23 <Travis> dand: TSS is the API for IME. Browsers may not support these fully, and could through complications into the mix.
21:46:33 <dand> TSF
21:47:15 <Travis> dand: IMM32 (old one), TSF (new one), others for mac/linux
21:50:16 <smaug> ( https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88831 )
21:51:06 <Travis> Travis: I don't think we should go down the road of trying to spec all of the details of what an IME event model could look like
21:51:25 <Travis> dand: seems very complicated to purse that and we lack implementation experience.
21:51:58 <Travis> shepazu: OK. Sounds good. We should spec a minimum of compositionstart/end for IME because that's what browsers have chosen to do.
21:52:42 <Travis> Topic: Method for asking the UA for what keys have been pressed down.
21:53:06 <Travis> shepazu: We talked about this last week, and several folks throught there was utility there.
21:53:26 <Travis> shepazu: That's about it for that topic :)
21:54:02 <Travis> shepazu: dand can you see about connected us with the WebKit guy for compositionstart/end events?
21:58:36 <Zakim> -Travis
21:58:38 <Zakim> -smaug
21:58:42 <Zakim> -dand
21:58:47 <Zakim> -Shepazu
21:58:48 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM has ended
21:58:50 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, dand, MSjacob, smaug
21:59:02 <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon
21:59:02 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
21:59:02 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:59:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:59:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
21:59:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
21:59:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items