IRC log of webapps on 2009-06-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:59:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webapps
20:59:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to
20:59:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:59:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webapps
20:59:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAPP
20:59:28 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
20:59:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
20:59:29 [trackbot]
Date: 24 June 2009
21:00:07 [shepazu]
Zakim, this will be DOM3
21:00:07 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM scheduled to start now
21:00:18 [Zakim]
IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM has now started
21:00:19 [Zakim]
21:02:55 [dand]
dand has joined #webapps
21:03:11 [dand]
hey guys
21:03:22 [shepazu]
hi, dand
21:03:43 [dand]
how's it going
21:03:52 [dand]
is there a www-dom telecon now? or next week?
21:03:58 [shepazu]
the chair forgot to send out the agenda, so I'm not sure who's going to show
21:04:38 [dand]
no probs
21:04:45 [dand]
should i dial in? or hang out here and wait first
21:04:47 [shepazu]
I'm on the line, but if we don't have a few other people show up in the next 10 minutes, we should postpone until next week
21:04:56 [dand]
21:05:06 [shepazu]
well, if you can call in, I can bring you up to speed
21:05:12 [shepazu]
Zakim, code
21:05:12 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'code', shepazu
21:05:20 [shepazu]
Zakim, code?
21:05:20 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), shepazu
21:05:27 [shepazu]
trackbot, code?
21:05:27 [trackbot]
Sorry, shepazu, I don't understand 'trackbot, code?'. Please refer to for help
21:08:28 [Zakim]
21:08:30 [Zakim]
21:08:44 [Travis]
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21:09:04 [dand]
can't hear you guys too great
21:10:07 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P0 is dand
21:10:07 [Zakim]
+dand; got it
21:10:21 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P1 is Travis
21:10:21 [Zakim]
+Travis; got it
21:12:04 [MSjacob]
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21:12:23 [shepazu]
zakim, Travis has MSjacob
21:12:23 [Zakim]
+MSjacob; got it
21:12:25 [shepazu]
21:12:38 [Zakim]
21:12:49 [smaug]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
21:12:49 [Zakim]
+smaug; got it
21:15:12 [Travis]
Short telecon today
21:16:52 [Travis]
shepazu: Recap: goal of the different key event flows is to find a harmoneous graph that best for user agents.
21:17:06 [shepazu]
Travis: scribenick
21:17:19 [shepazu]
scribenick: Travis
21:17:38 [Travis]
... Not likely to spec (solve) the IME model.
21:18:17 [Travis]
... Planning to publish the different models as appendices to the spec.
21:19:08 [darobin]
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21:19:34 [Travis]
... Key models missing the mutation event points (where they fire) or where the DOM is modified (in user agents without mutation events)
21:19:47 [Travis]
... Still need to hear from WebKit.
21:21:00 [Travis]
dand: I think Webkit's model is probably pretty close to Trident's
21:21:22 [Travis]
... I have some people that I could contact.
21:21:22 [dand]
21:22:20 [Travis]
Topic: IME events from DOM Mailing list
21:22:39 [Travis]
shepazu: Some disccusion on the mailing list regarding IME.
21:25:22 [Travis]
Travis: two problems that they wanted to solve.
21:25:45 [Travis]
... the composition box appears in random places and can occude important web page elements (like search suggestions)
21:26:15 [Travis]
... other is that all user agents should implement compositionstart and compositionend events. Though, I'm not sure why?
21:26:58 [Travis]
dand: Not necessarily that those physical events are important, but that they do what you need...
21:27:35 [Travis]
... only get fired for IME inputs (don't necessarily have to do with key events).
21:27:55 [Travis]
... In IE you don't get notified of some events...
21:28:09 [Travis]
... using voice or other you may get spotty notification.
21:29:41 [Travis]
... Firefox's compositionstart event allows you to change the DOM and place the cursor in a new location, then the actual input will occur in the new location.
21:30:14 [Travis]
... nice to grap input and contain it to a particular place in the DOM.
21:31:01 [Travis]
... In general, knowing when the composition finishes is useful because you can respond to user activity when the fully composed string.
21:31:19 [shepazu]
21:32:40 [annevk]
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21:33:14 [Travis]
Travis: Does the textInput event handle these use cases...?
21:34:08 [Travis]
dand: compositionend could be like textInput, but the compositionstart event is still important.
21:36:03 [dand]
21:36:36 [Travis]
shepazu: textInput does not say where the textInput came from. Maybe it could (IME, key, voice, etc.)?
21:37:19 [Travis]
... (random idea) for positioning of the IME candidate window, we could possibly put an X/Y event for where the IME window came up...
21:38:14 [Travis]
dand: Hmm, maybe this could get more complicated...
21:38:46 [Travis]
shepazu: We'll see if implementors want to do that. Don't want to jump into UI necessarily..
21:44:18 [shepazu]
21:46:23 [Travis]
dand: TSS is the API for IME. Browsers may not support these fully, and could through complications into the mix.
21:46:33 [dand]
21:47:15 [Travis]
dand: IMM32 (old one), TSF (new one), others for mac/linux
21:50:16 [smaug]
( )
21:51:06 [Travis]
Travis: I don't think we should go down the road of trying to spec all of the details of what an IME event model could look like
21:51:25 [Travis]
dand: seems very complicated to purse that and we lack implementation experience.
21:51:58 [Travis]
shepazu: OK. Sounds good. We should spec a minimum of compositionstart/end for IME because that's what browsers have chosen to do.
21:52:42 [Travis]
Topic: Method for asking the UA for what keys have been pressed down.
21:53:06 [Travis]
shepazu: We talked about this last week, and several folks throught there was utility there.
21:53:26 [Travis]
shepazu: That's about it for that topic :)
21:54:02 [Travis]
shepazu: dand can you see about connected us with the WebKit guy for compositionstart/end events?
21:58:36 [Zakim]
21:58:38 [Zakim]
21:58:42 [Zakim]
21:58:47 [Zakim]
21:58:48 [Zakim]
IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM has ended
21:58:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shepazu, dand, MSjacob, smaug
21:59:02 [shepazu]
trackbot, end telcon
21:59:02 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:59:02 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:59:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:59:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
21:59:04 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:59:04 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items