13:58:26 RRSAgent has joined #sparql 13:58:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-irc 13:58:32 Zakim, this is SPARQL 13:58:32 ok, AxelPolleres; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 13:58:34 I think my action was time mermitting, but maybe that wasn't captured 13:58:41 - +049261287aaaa 13:58:49 It's FPWD - agreeing to publish is not a universal agreement with the doc. 13:59:03 Hi all, I am scribing today for the first time... Do i have to do something special to get the chat log published afterwards? 13:59:08 + +1.518.276.aabb 13:59:12 -bcuencagrau 13:59:14 Zakim, aabb is me 13:59:15 +kasei; got it 13:59:16 + +3539149aacc 13:59:19 Zakim, mute me 13:59:19 kasei should now be muted 13:59:31 oh, I may be able to attend after all, but will be a bit late 13:59:46 Zakim, aacc is me 13:59:46 +AxelPolleres; got it 14:00:08 yes, can hear you 14:00:17 Zakim, who is speaking? 14:00:21 Zakim, unmute me 14:00:21 kasei should no longer be muted 14:00:29 AxelPolleres, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kasei (29%), AxelPolleres (31%) 14:00:50 +bcuencagrau 14:00:56 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:56 On the phone I see kasei, AxelPolleres, bcuencagrau 14:00:58 SteveH has joined #sparql 14:00:59 Zakim, bcuencagrau is bglimm 14:00:59 +bglimm; got it 14:01:09 Zakim, mute me 14:01:09 kasei should now be muted 14:01:21 +??P26 14:01:28 scribenick: bglimm 14:01:30 Zakim, ??P26 is me 14:01:30 +AlexPassant; got it 14:01:30 AndyS has joined #sparql 14:01:34 scribe: Birte Glimm 14:01:36 + +49.261.287.aadd 14:01:45 Zakim, aadd is me 14:01:45 +SimonS1; got it 14:01:52 +??P29 14:01:57 Zakim, ??p29 is me 14:01:58 +SteveH; got it 14:02:25 +??P34 14:02:27 zakim, ??P34 is me 14:02:27 +AndyS; got it 14:02:42 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:02:54 On the phone I see kasei (muted), AxelPolleres, bglimm, AlexPassant, SimonS1, SteveH, AndyS 14:03:23 + +2 14:03:34 Zakim, +2 is me 14:03:45 +KjetilK; got it 14:03:52 Zakim, mute me 14:03:52 KjetilK should now be muted 14:04:00 AxelPolleres: Many people are at SemTec and cannot attent today 14:04:12 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-06-16 14:04:13 s/attent/attend/ 14:04:31 AxelPolleres: let's approve the minutes from last time 14:04:31 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-09 14:04:45 ... any objections? or additions? 14:05:03 ... nothing, so the minutes are approved 14:05:22 Alex: I am listed, but I wasn't there 14:05:44 PROPOSED: Approve minutes with Alex being removed from the attendees list. 14:06:10 ACTION: Axel Eric to update minutes 14:06:10 Created ACTION-41 - Eric to update minutes [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-23]. 14:06:38 AxelPolleres: Can we approve it with the amendments? 14:06:39 RESOLVED: Approve minutes with Alex being removed from the attendees list. 14:06:47 regrets for 2009-06-09 are there actually: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-02 14:07:07 AxelPolleres: next meeting is in one week, 23rd June same time 14:07:34 Zakim, unmute me 14:07:34 KjetilK should no longer be muted 14:07:49 ... scribe for next week: KjetilK 14:08:00 Zakim, mute me 14:08:00 KjetilK should now be muted 14:08:01 topic: Liasions 14:08:04 Regrets for next week. I will be travelling, maybe I can join on IRC 14:08:28 AxelPolleres: Bijan is not here, so no news from OWL and no news from RIF 14:08:37 .. no news from liasons today 14:08:43 topic: actions 14:09:08 AxelPolleres: we some open actions: 16 on LeeF continious 14:09:15 +[IPcaller] 14:09:24 ... action 17 on Steve 14:09:35 Steve: I think that is obsolete now 14:09:58 AxelPolleres: Action 19 on Ivan is open 14:10:21 Ivan: What is that action? 14:10:32 """Send to the mailing list a few example cases (data, query, results) of SELECT queries in FILTERs""" 14:10:34 AxelPolleres: We have to look that up in the minutes 14:10:36 s/Ivan/Orri/ 14:11:01 ... Action 28 is continued and action 32 on Simon is open 14:11:09 Somin: Action 32 should be completed 14:11:16 s/Somin/Simon/ 14:11:25 AxelPolleres: Action 36 is completed 14:11:44 ... Action 37 is completed 14:11:44 action-38 can be closed, and is on the agenda for later 14:12:00 Zakim, unmute me 14:12:00 kasei should no longer be muted 14:12:21 ... Action 38 on Greg is completed and can be closed 14:12:25 Zakim, mute me 14:12:25 kasei should now be muted 14:12:35 ... we have 2 open actions to review the F&R docs 14:12:45 ... we leave this open for now 14:12:55 ... action review is done 14:13:02 Topic: F&R Document 14:13:07 Zakim, unmute me 14:13:07 KjetilK should no longer be muted 14:13:26 kjetilK: We just 2 things open 14:13:36 ... the short name and the introduction 14:13:59 ... we have the project description 14:14:15 ... SteveH couldn't finish his review 14:14:35 ... whether Chime has reviewed is not known 14:14:40 q? 14:15:03 AxelPolleres: Lets look at the open issues for this 14:15:10 ... short name first 14:15:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0383.html 14:15:21 http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ 14:15:38 ... proposal was to use the name SPARQL Features 14:15:54 ... but this has no version number 14:16:06 ... any opinions? 14:16:53 AndyS: Can we ask the team contact and ask what is the standard 14:17:19 AxelPolleres: They are not here at the moment 14:17:21 e.g. TR/xpath-datamodel/ -- no version number (and it's xpath 2.0) 14:17:39 ... I can ask the team contact 14:17:45 but /TR/xmlschema-2/ 14:17:54 ACTION: Axel to ask team contacts whether http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ is ok 14:17:54 Created ACTION-42 - Ask team contacts whether http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ is ok [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-23]. 14:18:12 +1 14:18:22 AxelPolleres: Can I propose to go with that name unless there is some objection from the team contact? 14:18:29 ... do we need a backup solution 14:18:32 ... ? 14:18:48 PROPOSED: F&R will be published under http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ unless there are concerns from the team-contacts. 14:19:10 RESOLVED: F&R will be published under http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ unless there are concerns from the team-contacts. 14:19:12 AxelPolleres: Lets ressolve this and see 14:19:51 ... My concern is that the previous versions said RDF SPARQL and not just SPARQL 14:20:23 lets delagate 14:20:27 +1 14:20:29 ... I think we can go with that for now 14:20:57 AndyS: your resolution says that the doc will be published like that, so that might cause a problem 14:21:01 NB we have not decided to publish yet 14:21:19 AxelPolleres: So should I change the resolution? 14:22:04 PROPOSE: in case of concerns, leave the naming decision to team contacts. 14:22:25 .... is it ok to leave it to the team contact for the naming issues? 14:22:30 ... any objections? 14:22:36 RESOLVED: in case of concerns, leave the naming decision to team contacts. 14:22:46 ... So, there are none and I suggest to resolve this 14:22:54 Topic: Introduction 14:23:08 AxelPolleres: Did you incorporate what was on the wiki? 14:23:26 KjetilK: I havn't, but there was nothing substantial 14:23:26 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Features_Introduction_strawman 14:24:03 AxelPolleres: I looked ob=ver it. It is not a substantial change. It is mostly to reorder some parts 14:24:36 ... also there are links to the resolutions and I was hoping that this fulfils Any's concern about the timestamp feature 14:24:52 q? 14:25:08 s/Any's/Andy's/ 14:25:24 AxelPolleres: Would such a reordering be ok? 14:25:33 q+ 14:25:40 ... if there are no objections, I propose to change it like that. 14:26:06 AlexPassant: I would like to keep 1.1 and the structure of the documents 14:26:38 ACTION: Alex to adopt http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Features_Introduction_strawman with two subsections. 14:26:38 Created ACTION-43 - Adopt http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Features_Introduction_strawman with two subsections. [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-06-23]. 14:26:46 AxelPolleres: I will give you an action to adapt the document 14:27:07 ... any more objections? 14:27:20 ... none, so lets do that. 14:27:27 ... next, examples 14:27:49 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ProjectExpressions 14:28:17 KjetilK: I took text from the wiki and put it in the document 14:28:24 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#Project_expressions 14:28:28 AxelPolleres: Let's have a look 14:28:35 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#Project_expressions_syntax 14:29:04 ... should the construct with expressions be left in, for the moment it was 14:29:26 bijan has joined #sparql 14:29:27 ... it should be clear that this is not the complex expressions 14:29:49 ... Did you include the implementations list? 14:30:05 kjetilK: I havn't included that 14:30:32 +??P55 14:30:35 ... it seems that the doc is not self-contained with many links 14:30:37 zakim, ??P55 is me 14:30:37 +bijan; got it 14:30:48 AxelPolleres: So you don't have any? 14:31:03 Checking F&O: fn:concat --> fn:string-join 14:31:05 (simon was asking) 14:31:16 fn:concat implies a cast, string-join does not 14:31:36 AxelPolleres: There are some implementations listed, so should we unify that? 14:31:59 AndyS: fixed :-) 14:32:18 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#Negation 14:32:23 ... there are some concerns about an example in the negations subsection 14:32:30 .. any opinions? 14:32:39 ... Kjetil have you seen that email 14:32:49 It needs a 2nd example 14:32:54 kjetilK: I saw it and thought about it a bit 14:33:16 AxelPolleres: what we need is an approval of Andy because he raised the concerns? 14:33:28 AndyS: Which change? 14:33:38 small typo in 2.3.3: "does not no anyone" shoudl be "does not know anyone" 14:33:47 AxelPolleres: In the negation section. 14:34:23 AndyS: The wording says syntax, but we actually make deeper changes 14:34:38 I think it is strange to show an example from SeRQL for negation when there are existing SPARQL approaches... 14:35:02 agree with kasei 14:35:12 Use his impl as example. 14:35:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0379.html 14:35:18 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0379.html 14:35:35 AxelPolleres: I just pasted the relevant mail 14:35:37 Zakim, mute me 14:35:37 KjetilK should now be muted 14:36:16 +1 to the rewording 14:36:18 AndyS: I think the new wording is better 14:37:26 AxelPolleres: Is the rewording for the second part fine too? 14:37:31 yes 14:37:35 +1 14:37:48 ... There is a second part to this 14:38:02 ... there was a concern that only the minor system is mentioned 14:38:21 ... I am not sure which systems implement UNSAID? I think only ARC. 14:38:27 committed :-) 14:38:34 I support UNSAID 14:38:45 s/ARC/ARQ/ 14:38:56 Orri: NOT EXISTS for SQL 14:39:17 ... we not need to rewrite it as NOT EXISTS in SQL syntax 14:39:26 s/not/would/ 14:39:40 AndyS: Are there any examples in the wiki pages? 14:39:48 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:Negation 14:40:01 q+ 14:40:10 AxelPolleres: I would like to see an example like the other one, expression the same thing as the other one 14:40:16 Zakim: ack me 14:40:19 q- 14:40:49 ACTION: Orri to mail NOT EXISTS example. 14:40:49 Created ACTION-44 - Mail NOT EXISTS example. [on Orri Erling - due 2009-06-23]. 14:40:49 Ori: I can mail an example 14:40:51 the UNSAID example in the referenced email will work in RDF::Query as-is. 14:41:30 s/Ori/Orri/ 14:42:15 I was not actuall 14:42:16 ack AlexPassant 14:42:18 Zakim, ack me 14:42:18 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:43:01 AxelPolleres: Orri will mal an example 14:43:10 Orri: I can do that now. 14:43:22 Zakim, unmute me 14:43:22 KjetilK should no longer be muted 14:43:34 AxelPolleres: kjetil or Alex can you adopt that in the document? 14:43:42 ACTION: adopt NOT EXISTS running example in F&R 14:43:42 Sorry, couldn't find user - adopt 14:44:05 ... where is Kasei's example? 14:44:05 Zakim, unmute me 14:44:05 kasei should no longer be muted 14:44:20 Kasei: It's in the mail and in other places 14:44:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0379.html 14:44:50 Zakim, mute me 14:44:50 kasei should now be muted 14:44:58 Kasei: UNSAID works with Kasei's implementation 14:45:00 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:Negation#Example 14:45:11 first example 14:45:34 ACTION: Kjetil to adopt one more additional syntaxe UNSAID or NOT EXISTS for negation 14:45:35 Created ACTION-45 - Adopt one more additional syntaxe UNSAID or NOT EXISTS for negation [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2009-06-23]. 14:45:57 AxelPolleres: Until when can this be done? 14:46:06 kjetilK: I think immediately 14:46:29 AxelPolleres: If we have all these actions done, we need approval by two more people. 14:46:57 AndyS_ has joined #sparql 14:47:04 ... We can still propose to publish, given that these reviews are positive given that it is a draft 14:47:35 ... So I need two reviewers 14:47:52 ... Steve, when could you look over the documents? 14:47:59 SteveH: early next week 14:48:00 (very loud typing noises... bglimm, is that you?) 14:48:15 AxelPolleres: Could anybody do that earlier. 14:48:29 Simon: I can also do that early next week 14:48:31 ACTION: Simon to review F&R 14:48:31 Created ACTION-46 - Review F&R [on Simon Schenk - due 2009-06-23]. 14:49:19 AxelPolleres: Kjetil can you incorporate the changes today after the meeting? 14:49:23 kjetikK: yes 14:49:39 AxelPolleres: So next week we can decide whether we can publish or not 14:49:56 ... is there anything more on F&R 14:50:24 Postpone decision to next telecon (hopefully really ONLY the decision) 14:51:40 ACTION: Axel to ask team contact to approve patent text (currently commented in the document). 14:51:40 Created ACTION-47 - Ask team contact to approve patent text (currently commented in the document). [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-23]. 14:52:16 AxelPolleres: nothing else? No, so lets move on. 14:52:28 ... to Service Descriptions 14:52:33 topic: service descriptions 14:52:34 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions 14:52:52 Zakim, mute me 14:52:52 KjetilK should now be muted 14:52:52 ... last week two actions were completed on this 14:53:10 Zakim, unmute me 14:53:10 kasei should no longer be muted 14:53:25 ... Greg, can you tell us what you did? 14:53:26 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/38 14:53:35 Greg: I have posted a list on the wiki 14:53:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0380.html 14:53:49 ... with things I suggest should be standardised 14:55:13 q+ to ask about SPARQL/1.0 (minor) 14:56:17 ack AndyS 14:56:17 AndyS, you wanted to ask about SPARQL/1.0 (minor) 14:56:38 AndyS: we need to put the version number of the SPARQL features in 14:57:10 q+ to ask whether default should be SPARQL 1.0 14:57:52 ack me 14:58:25 AxelPolleres: Can we have an assumption that SPARQL 1.0 is the default 14:58:31 Sounds like a chicken and egg problem: Need SPARQL/1.1 to say I am a SPARQL/1.0 endpoint 14:58:38 +1 to no defaulting 14:58:51 AndyS: I don't think. If the system does not say anything, then it is not supporting any particular version 14:59:10 seems agreement that no default behavior should be assumed/defined. 14:59:38 ... Greg, do you have an example for the connection RI? 14:59:58 +1 to naming all built-ins with URIs. 14:59:59 Greg: for new features, such as aggregate functions, it makes sense to give them new URI's 15:00:36 ... at the moment we don't have URIs for all features 15:01:07 Greg: I think there was support for using URIs instead of keywords 15:01:29 AxelPolleres: should we have URIs for libraries or URIs for all features? 15:01:32 and that they should work as a function call. Except BOUND, || and && which are not strict functions (they are technically special forms) 15:01:51 Greg: That might depend on the decision of whether or not we will have function libraries 15:02:02 Axel: do we want also to name libraries? 15:02:21 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0380.html 15:02:26 AxelPolleres: We are running out of time, so we might have to contibnue this discussion on mail. 15:02:49 ... I have to talk to Lee on how we proceed now and where we continue 15:03:14 ... whether we should focus on the features or whether we should flesh out the time allowed features in the F&R document 15:03:34 ... Any other things for the agenda? 15:03:45 -[IPcaller] 15:03:46 ... No, so see you next week. 15:03:49 -SteveH 15:03:50 -KjetilK 15:03:50 Adjourn. 15:03:52 -SimonS1 15:03:54 -AlexPassant 15:03:54 -bijan 15:03:59 Thanks all! 15:04:00 -kasei 15:04:06 -AndyS 15:04:32 -AxelPolleres 15:04:32 SteveH_ has joined #sparql 15:04:40 Zakim, list attendees 15:04:40 As of this point the attendees have been +049261287aaaa, +1.518.276.aabb, kasei, +3539149aacc, AxelPolleres, bglimm, AlexPassant, +49.261.287.aadd, SimonS1, SteveH, AndyS, KjetilK, 15:04:44 ... [IPcaller], bijan 15:04:55 rrsagent, draft minutes please 15:04:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres 15:05:32 Axel, Is lee going to do the clean up of the minutes? 15:05:49 kasei has left #sparql 15:06:02 bijan, I need to check with him 15:06:09 SimonS has left #sparql 15:06:20 Let me know if i have to do anything on the minutes 15:06:41 The minutes magic was done by eric/bijan so far. 15:06:52 s/bijan/lee/ 15:06:55 Yes 15:06:56 Lee 15:06:57 Not me 15:07:00 At the moment, I get insufficient access privileges if I try to access the minutes 15:07:01 Definitely not me 15:07:15 rrsagent, make minutes public 15:07:15 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', bijan. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:07:38 yeah, I got the same problem with the rrsagent last week already. 15:07:53 rrsagent,publish minutes 15:07:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html bijan 15:08:21 I think the team member has to twiddle a bit 15:09:10 Ok, so can I leave? My russian course started at 4, so I'll be late anyway 15:09:18 Yep 15:09:43 -bglimm 15:09:45 SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 15:09:46 Attendees were +049261287aaaa, +1.518.276.aabb, kasei, +3539149aacc, AxelPolleres, bglimm, AlexPassant, +49.261.287.aadd, SimonS1, SteveH, AndyS, KjetilK, [IPcaller], bijan 15:10:17 RRSAgent, please make log world-visible 15:10:35 will figure it out with the others... ah, thanks ericP 15:10:55 ericP, can you take care of the nicely formatted minutes? 16:04:18 alright, all taken care of. 17:23:18 Zakim has left #sparql