11:46:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
11:46:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/15-mw4d-irc
11:46:57 <steph> zakim, this will be dweu
11:46:57 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, steph
11:47:02 <steph> zakim, this will be mw4d
11:47:02 <Zakim> ok, steph; I see UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
11:47:20 <steph> MEETING: Mw4d bi-monthly meeting
11:47:52 <steph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2009Jun/0023.html
11:47:57 <steph> Present:Stephane
11:48:03 <steph> Chair: stephane
11:48:07 <steph> make log public
11:48:12 <steph> zakim, make log public
11:48:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make log public', steph
11:48:18 <steph> rrsagent, make log public
11:48:23 <steph> rrsagent, make minutes
11:48:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
11:48:58 <steph> MEETING: MW4D IG bi-monthly meeting
11:52:43 <steph> zakim, code  ?
11:52:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 6493 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), steph
11:53:09 <Zakim> UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has now started
11:53:16 <Zakim> +steph
12:00:40 <kiwanja> kiwanja has joined #mw4d
12:00:42 <Arun> Arun has joined #mw4d
12:00:57 <Zakim> +Arun
12:01:01 <steph> Present+Arun
12:01:56 <Zakim> +??P2
12:02:04 <steph> Present+kiwanja
12:02:19 <steph> zakim, ??p2 is Kiwanja
12:02:19 <Zakim> +Kiwanja; got it
12:02:23 <Raphael> Raphael has joined #mw4d
12:02:37 <Zakim> + +31.62.247.aaaa
12:02:44 <nicolas> nicolas has joined #mw4d
12:03:10 <steph> zakim, aaaa is Nicholas
12:03:10 <Zakim> +Nicholas; got it
12:03:20 <steph> Present+Nicholas
12:03:21 <Zakim> +raphael
12:03:27 <steph> Present+Raphael
12:03:31 <Zakim> + +0750070aabb
12:03:39 <steph> zakim, aabb is betty
12:03:39 <Zakim> +betty; got it
12:03:46 <steph> Present+betty
12:04:14 <steph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2009Jun/0023.html
12:04:26 <Raphael> Today: collective note taking.
12:04:34 <steph> Topic: approval of last meeting minutes
12:04:44 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/08-mw4d-minutes.html 
12:04:46 <Raphael> +1
12:04:46 <kiwanja> Minutes OK for me
12:04:54 <steph> approved
12:05:02 <steph> Topic: action item reviews
12:05:26 <steph> Lauri to review tools on the wiki and add extra note from .mobi
12:05:29 <steph> [postponed]
12:05:42 <steph> stephane to send maputo exec summary
12:05:44 <steph> [done]
12:05:53 <steph> Steph to put maputo executive summary discussion on the agenda for
12:05:53 <steph> next mw4d meeting
12:06:22 <Zakim> +Lauri
12:06:33 <steph> Present+Lauri
12:06:53 <Renjish> Renjish has joined #mw4d
12:06:59 <Raphael> The report seems self-explanatory for me. And I appreciated it. Thanks to the writer(s)
12:07:30 <Raphael> (last workshop report, I'm refering to)
12:07:42 <betty> betty has joined #mw4d
12:08:36 <steph> Ken to link with people at georgia tech and present wha t we are 
12:08:36 <steph> doing and see if they are interested to join
12:09:02 <steph> [ongoing]
12:09:13 <steph> Steph to draft illiteracy section
12:09:14 <Zakim> + +1.312.799.aacc
12:09:23 <steph> Present+Renjish
12:09:28 <steph> zakim, aacc is renjish
12:09:28 <Zakim> +renjish; got it
12:09:41 <steph> [done]
12:09:52 <steph> Stephane add a section background draft some bullet points 
12:09:58 <steph> [done]
12:10:06 <steph> Stephane to create a discussion page attached to the roadmap
12:10:09 <steph> [done]
12:10:24 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/wiki/roadmapv2-discussion
12:10:38 <steph> Topic: Roadmap discussion
12:10:50 <Raphael> q+ on the discussion page
12:11:30 <steph> raphael: idea from mediawiki
12:11:59 <steph> the way they workis that everybody can put things in
12:12:06 <steph> same here ?
12:12:22 <steph> i suggest yes
12:14:10 <steph> consensus making process
12:15:28 <Arun> I agree about the mailing list
12:15:43 <steph> stephane: i would suggest we keep links with the email
12:15:45 <Renjish> agree
12:15:49 <steph> greater audience
12:15:55 <steph> so edition+email
12:16:05 <kiwanja> i agree to maintain both due to different audiences, re: bulletin board and mailing list
12:16:52 <Raphael> Steph: People are welcome to add substance on both channels. 
12:17:06 <betty> OK.
12:17:07 <Raphael> +1
12:17:10 <Arun> Ok
12:17:45 <Raphael> Lauri is OK.
12:18:21 <Adesina> Adesina has joined #mw4d
12:18:27 <Raphael> q+
12:18:28 <steph> issue: government on audience
12:18:32 <steph> lauri: ok
12:18:37 <Arun> Sure, but do we have specific things in mind for them ?
12:18:43 <steph> ack raphael
12:18:43 <Zakim> Raphael, you wanted to comment on the discussion page and to 
12:19:12 <Adesina> I am here. I will not beable to audio-join. I am actually in a conference now
12:19:16 <Arun> q+
12:20:00 <steph> arun: anything we want to explicitly do for them ? 
12:20:03 <steph> and how to reach them ?
12:20:20 <Arun> q-
12:21:05 <Renjish> I think we should have an ecosystem description in the audience section which will mention all stakeholders, but the scope should specify the focus of the issues addressed  
12:21:23 <Zakim> -Nicholas
12:22:09 <nicolas> no more battery for my cell. I'll follow on IRC.
12:22:36 <betty> Audience, add the government & decision makers to assure them about plus/minus, challenges, risks of MW4D.
12:23:07 <betty> In addition, government & NGOs should collaborate.
12:23:10 <steph> stephane: ecosystem ?
12:23:17 <Adesina> Audience meant stakeholders?
12:23:24 <steph> renjish: role of each, and their relationship with others
12:23:36 <Lauri> Lauri has joined #mw4d
12:24:06 <Lauri> Now Lauri managed to join the IRC channel :-)
12:24:11 <steph> great !
12:24:51 <Raphael> Arun: do you mean that the document won't fit all audiences we aim at?
12:25:07 <steph> renjish: one way classify stakeholders: enablers, users, providers
12:25:27 <Arun> I just meant to understand how we would address govt as an audience
12:25:54 <Arun> It would be ideal if we can influence decision makers but this doc is probably meant to be too technical
12:25:59 <Raphael> I personnally think the doc might be too technical for most Gov people
12:26:05 <Adesina> Govt are major service provider and financier in many developing countries
12:26:20 <betty> Agree with Adesina.
12:26:26 <Arun> As you can see, I agree with you Raphael :-)
12:26:31 <Raphael> indeed ;)
12:26:43 <betty> In government, there are also technical staffs.
12:26:49 <Raphael> true
12:27:34 <steph> raphael: how to reach this technical staff
12:28:01 <steph> making a document at donors and govt, it needs to be simplified
12:28:17 <Renjish> Gov and NGO related issues are mainly policy oriented which we can handle in the future directions section
12:28:25 <steph> however, the audience may be wide
12:28:32 <steph> better
12:28:32 <betty> It's OK to make technical roadmap.
12:29:09 <Adesina> Maybe a section of the docuemnt should specify buy-in or value for each stakeholder in MW4D
12:29:21 <Raphael> could you please repeat, Steph?
12:29:59 <Lauri> Example in Kenia we found IT-director in Governement. Not all governements have them.
12:30:15 <Raphael> Steph: example of the Maputo event with the summary, having few clear key messages.
12:30:21 <Raphael> thanks
12:30:28 <Arun> q+
12:31:01 <steph> arun: government: decision makers or technical staff ?
12:31:05 <Renjish> q+
12:31:09 <betty> In government: the decision makers could read the executive summary. Then they could consult technical experts to study the technical documents. 
12:31:10 <Arun> q-
12:31:19 <steph> ack renjish
12:31:58 <Adesina> It is important not to focus narrowly on technical officers, but policy makers are important as well
12:32:17 <Lauri> Even with IT-manager they don't understand all the possibilites available by mobile services. That is a purpose of our report.
12:32:23 <Raphael> Depending how long the doc is, could we have document segments targeting different segments?
12:32:24 <steph> renjish: policies is important
12:32:27 <Arun> Yes, I agree with recommendation and policy guideline kind of inputs but then we need to decide if this document is the right place
12:32:45 <Raphael> different audiences, I meant
12:33:10 <Arun> I agree with you Stephane
12:33:30 <Adesina> We don't need to write for each stakeholder but making it clear what are the different values for diff. skateholders is important
12:33:34 <steph> stephane: policy guideline is more an output that part of this document
12:33:46 <steph> +1 to adesina
12:34:34 <Raphael> should a policy guideline be an output of our group?
12:34:51 <Lauri> A good book is: Mobile Internet for Dummies. But it is too wide. We could make references to good topics in the book.
12:34:59 <Adesina> not really, but identifying value for them in the document
12:36:13 <Zakim> -betty
12:36:31 <Lauri> As I know all the authors of the book, I can negotiate rights to copy some parts of it into our report if needed.
12:37:13 <Zakim> +betty
12:38:03 <Adesina> Luari, what is the link for Mobile Internet for Dummies
12:38:29 <Raphael> it is in paper format, I believe
12:38:58 <Raphael> http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470239530.html
12:39:21 <Raphael> I think we sould write our arguments on the discussion page
12:39:35 <Raphael> since it is a bit complex
12:39:40 <Raphael> this item
12:40:37 <steph> action: renjish to summarize policy guideliens discussion on the discsuion page
12:40:41 <betty> Agree with Raphael.
12:41:22 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/wiki/roadmapv2#background
12:41:26 <steph> issue: background sectoin
12:41:36 <Raphael> you mean context?
12:41:58 <Raphael> thanks
12:42:15 <Raphael> numbered issues, great idea
12:42:27 <steph> action: steph to put an issue number in front of each issue
12:43:15 <Arun> Do you think existing working solutions and their drawbacks shud go here ?
12:44:39 <Arun> Ok It is fine then
12:44:58 <Arun> It is more of motivation
12:45:03 <Adesina> The background section can be used to specify value for each stakeholders 
12:45:46 <Raphael> Motivation addition seems a good idea 
12:45:58 <steph> Resolution: background should be transformed in Motivation
12:45:58 <Raphael> to me :)
12:46:02 <betty> Yup. Motivation sounds better than background.
12:46:28 <steph> issue: context
12:47:02 <steph> raphael: identifying context
12:47:07 <steph> we cannot list all context
12:47:10 <steph> too numerous
12:47:24 <steph> but we could characterize some typical context
12:47:42 <Adesina> context is just specifying rationale for the document and while it is important
12:47:45 <steph> example: literate rate+connectivty rate
12:48:24 <steph> ten to 20 characteristics
12:48:39 <Arun> We could have pre-requisites listed for every tech. solution.
12:48:43 <steph> to define technology possibilities in some context
12:49:21 <Arun> Writing context for every geo would be too time consuming and dynamic
12:49:52 <Arun> so we mention the parameters/ characteristics required as pre-requisite by the solution.
12:50:41 <Renjish> q+
12:51:07 <Renjish> we should leverage existing literature for summarizing the contexts
12:51:27 <steph> raphael: a matrix
12:51:36 <steph> might be a solution
12:52:07 <steph> a summarized way
12:52:10 <steph> might be good
12:52:41 <steph> raphael: better if i make a proposal
12:53:11 <Renjish> q-
12:53:42 <steph> action: raphael to summarize how to deal with context in the discussion page
12:54:08 <steph> issue: accessibility issues
12:54:24 <Adesina> Using existing literature is a good is=dea
12:56:42 <Raphael> I tend to agree with Steph. Accessibility is studied quite widely in other places
12:56:57 <steph> steph: mention accessibility specificities but out of the scope of this document
12:57:05 <Raphael> the "traditional" issues
12:57:10 <betty> Accessibility for developing countries is complicates enough. I suggest wen concentrate on this.
12:57:16 <Arun> I am fine with Steph's proposal to mention that accessibility issues for developing countries are different than developed countries.
12:57:28 <betty> Yup.
12:57:31 <Raphael> +1
12:57:35 <kiwanja> agree with everyone re: accessibility
12:57:36 <steph> steph: in the scope of the document ?
12:57:37 <Renjish> yes
12:57:53 <steph> resolution: accessibility aspect should go to the scope of the document
12:57:54 <Lauri> As time is short, I like to add one technology missing from report now: Web-server in the mobile phone. This means, the mobile web-service don't need a PC at all.
12:58:18 <steph> ACTION: steph to write accessiblity aspect in the scope fo the doc section
12:58:28 <kiwanja> Interesting point from Lauri - agree we should look at this
12:58:41 <Raphael> sounds interesting indeed
12:59:08 <kiwanja> A few NGO/devs are looking at mobile servers to replace laptops/netbooks
12:59:24 <Raphael> Mobiles are increasingly the LDCs PCs
12:59:37 <Raphael> I use this often ;)
12:59:54 <Renjish> can we map that to any existing challenge in the doc? or if missing, we add a new challenge and include this as a potential solution?
13:00:04 <steph> action: Lauri to send a mail about Web-server in the mobile phone. 
13:00:13 <Raphael> Lauri, any example you could share? 
13:00:19 <steph> Topic: next meeting
13:00:27 <Adesina> Frontline SMS
13:00:56 <Renjish> ok 
13:00:58 <steph> stephane: propose an extra one on june 29 
13:01:02 <betty> ok
13:01:03 <Arun> June 29 fine with me
13:01:05 <Raphael> ok
13:01:09 <steph> agreed
13:01:32 <Raphael> thank you
13:01:46 <Raphael> emails can lead to the discussion page ;)
13:01:48 <Lauri> Raphael, please sen e-mail to me to talk more
13:01:49 <betty> bye
13:01:53 <Raphael> thank you all
13:01:53 <Renjish> bye
13:01:54 <Zakim> -Kiwanja
13:01:54 <Zakim> -steph
13:01:54 <Zakim> -renjish
13:01:55 <Zakim> -Arun
13:01:57 <Zakim> -betty
13:02:00 <Raphael> OK, Lauri, thanks
13:02:01 <Lauri> Bye
13:02:04 <steph> rrsagent, make minutes
13:02:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
13:02:16 <Zakim> -raphael
13:02:22 <Adesina> BYE
13:02:52 <Zakim> -Lauri
13:02:53 <Zakim> UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has ended
13:02:55 <Zakim> Attendees were steph, Arun, Kiwanja, +31.62.247.aaaa, Nicholas, raphael, +0750070aabb, betty, Lauri, +1.312.799.aacc, renjish
14:14:22 <steph> steph has left #mw4d
15:01:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mw4d