IRC log of mw4d on 2009-06-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:46:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
11:46:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/15-mw4d-irc
11:46:57 [steph]
zakim, this will be dweu
11:46:57 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, steph
11:47:02 [steph]
zakim, this will be mw4d
11:47:02 [Zakim]
ok, steph; I see UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
11:47:20 [steph]
MEETING: Mw4d bi-monthly meeting
11:47:52 [steph]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2009Jun/0023.html
11:47:57 [steph]
Present:Stephane
11:48:03 [steph]
Chair: stephane
11:48:07 [steph]
make log public
11:48:12 [steph]
zakim, make log public
11:48:12 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make log public', steph
11:48:18 [steph]
rrsagent, make log public
11:48:23 [steph]
rrsagent, make minutes
11:48:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
11:48:58 [steph]
MEETING: MW4D IG bi-monthly meeting
11:52:43 [steph]
zakim, code ?
11:52:43 [Zakim]
the conference code is 6493 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), steph
11:53:09 [Zakim]
UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has now started
11:53:16 [Zakim]
+steph
12:00:40 [kiwanja]
kiwanja has joined #mw4d
12:00:42 [Arun]
Arun has joined #mw4d
12:00:57 [Zakim]
+Arun
12:01:01 [steph]
Present+Arun
12:01:56 [Zakim]
+??P2
12:02:04 [steph]
Present+kiwanja
12:02:19 [steph]
zakim, ??p2 is Kiwanja
12:02:19 [Zakim]
+Kiwanja; got it
12:02:23 [Raphael]
Raphael has joined #mw4d
12:02:37 [Zakim]
+ +31.62.247.aaaa
12:02:44 [nicolas]
nicolas has joined #mw4d
12:03:10 [steph]
zakim, aaaa is Nicholas
12:03:10 [Zakim]
+Nicholas; got it
12:03:20 [steph]
Present+Nicholas
12:03:21 [Zakim]
+raphael
12:03:27 [steph]
Present+Raphael
12:03:31 [Zakim]
+ +0750070aabb
12:03:39 [steph]
zakim, aabb is betty
12:03:39 [Zakim]
+betty; got it
12:03:46 [steph]
Present+betty
12:04:14 [steph]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2009Jun/0023.html
12:04:26 [Raphael]
Today: collective note taking.
12:04:34 [steph]
Topic: approval of last meeting minutes
12:04:44 [steph]
http://www.w3.org/2009/06/08-mw4d-minutes.html
12:04:46 [Raphael]
+1
12:04:46 [kiwanja]
Minutes OK for me
12:04:54 [steph]
approved
12:05:02 [steph]
Topic: action item reviews
12:05:26 [steph]
Lauri to review tools on the wiki and add extra note from .mobi
12:05:29 [steph]
[postponed]
12:05:42 [steph]
stephane to send maputo exec summary
12:05:44 [steph]
[done]
12:05:53 [steph]
Steph to put maputo executive summary discussion on the agenda for
12:05:53 [steph]
next mw4d meeting
12:06:22 [Zakim]
+Lauri
12:06:33 [steph]
Present+Lauri
12:06:53 [Renjish]
Renjish has joined #mw4d
12:06:59 [Raphael]
The report seems self-explanatory for me. And I appreciated it. Thanks to the writer(s)
12:07:30 [Raphael]
(last workshop report, I'm refering to)
12:07:42 [betty]
betty has joined #mw4d
12:08:36 [steph]
Ken to link with people at georgia tech and present wha t we are
12:08:36 [steph]
doing and see if they are interested to join
12:09:02 [steph]
[ongoing]
12:09:13 [steph]
Steph to draft illiteracy section
12:09:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.312.799.aacc
12:09:23 [steph]
Present+Renjish
12:09:28 [steph]
zakim, aacc is renjish
12:09:28 [Zakim]
+renjish; got it
12:09:41 [steph]
[done]
12:09:52 [steph]
Stephane add a section background draft some bullet points
12:09:58 [steph]
[done]
12:10:06 [steph]
Stephane to create a discussion page attached to the roadmap
12:10:09 [steph]
[done]
12:10:24 [steph]
http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/wiki/roadmapv2-discussion
12:10:38 [steph]
Topic: Roadmap discussion
12:10:50 [Raphael]
q+ on the discussion page
12:11:30 [steph]
raphael: idea from mediawiki
12:11:59 [steph]
the way they workis that everybody can put things in
12:12:06 [steph]
same here ?
12:12:22 [steph]
i suggest yes
12:14:10 [steph]
consensus making process
12:15:28 [Arun]
I agree about the mailing list
12:15:43 [steph]
stephane: i would suggest we keep links with the email
12:15:45 [Renjish]
agree
12:15:49 [steph]
greater audience
12:15:55 [steph]
so edition+email
12:16:05 [kiwanja]
i agree to maintain both due to different audiences, re: bulletin board and mailing list
12:16:52 [Raphael]
Steph: People are welcome to add substance on both channels.
12:17:06 [betty]
OK.
12:17:07 [Raphael]
+1
12:17:10 [Arun]
Ok
12:17:45 [Raphael]
Lauri is OK.
12:18:21 [Adesina]
Adesina has joined #mw4d
12:18:27 [Raphael]
q+
12:18:28 [steph]
issue: government on audience
12:18:32 [steph]
lauri: ok
12:18:37 [Arun]
Sure, but do we have specific things in mind for them ?
12:18:43 [steph]
ack raphael
12:18:43 [Zakim]
Raphael, you wanted to comment on the discussion page and to
12:19:12 [Adesina]
I am here. I will not beable to audio-join. I am actually in a conference now
12:19:16 [Arun]
q+
12:20:00 [steph]
arun: anything we want to explicitly do for them ?
12:20:03 [steph]
and how to reach them ?
12:20:20 [Arun]
q-
12:21:05 [Renjish]
I think we should have an ecosystem description in the audience section which will mention all stakeholders, but the scope should specify the focus of the issues addressed
12:21:23 [Zakim]
-Nicholas
12:22:09 [nicolas]
no more battery for my cell. I'll follow on IRC.
12:22:36 [betty]
Audience, add the government & decision makers to assure them about plus/minus, challenges, risks of MW4D.
12:23:07 [betty]
In addition, government & NGOs should collaborate.
12:23:10 [steph]
stephane: ecosystem ?
12:23:17 [Adesina]
Audience meant stakeholders?
12:23:24 [steph]
renjish: role of each, and their relationship with others
12:23:36 [Lauri]
Lauri has joined #mw4d
12:24:06 [Lauri]
Now Lauri managed to join the IRC channel :-)
12:24:11 [steph]
great !
12:24:51 [Raphael]
Arun: do you mean that the document won't fit all audiences we aim at?
12:25:07 [steph]
renjish: one way classify stakeholders: enablers, users, providers
12:25:27 [Arun]
I just meant to understand how we would address govt as an audience
12:25:54 [Arun]
It would be ideal if we can influence decision makers but this doc is probably meant to be too technical
12:25:59 [Raphael]
I personnally think the doc might be too technical for most Gov people
12:26:05 [Adesina]
Govt are major service provider and financier in many developing countries
12:26:20 [betty]
Agree with Adesina.
12:26:26 [Arun]
As you can see, I agree with you Raphael :-)
12:26:31 [Raphael]
indeed ;)
12:26:43 [betty]
In government, there are also technical staffs.
12:26:49 [Raphael]
true
12:27:34 [steph]
raphael: how to reach this technical staff
12:28:01 [steph]
making a document at donors and govt, it needs to be simplified
12:28:17 [Renjish]
Gov and NGO related issues are mainly policy oriented which we can handle in the future directions section
12:28:25 [steph]
however, the audience may be wide
12:28:32 [steph]
better
12:28:32 [betty]
It's OK to make technical roadmap.
12:29:09 [Adesina]
Maybe a section of the docuemnt should specify buy-in or value for each stakeholder in MW4D
12:29:21 [Raphael]
could you please repeat, Steph?
12:29:59 [Lauri]
Example in Kenia we found IT-director in Governement. Not all governements have them.
12:30:15 [Raphael]
Steph: example of the Maputo event with the summary, having few clear key messages.
12:30:21 [Raphael]
thanks
12:30:28 [Arun]
q+
12:31:01 [steph]
arun: government: decision makers or technical staff ?
12:31:05 [Renjish]
q+
12:31:09 [betty]
In government: the decision makers could read the executive summary. Then they could consult technical experts to study the technical documents.
12:31:10 [Arun]
q-
12:31:19 [steph]
ack renjish
12:31:58 [Adesina]
It is important not to focus narrowly on technical officers, but policy makers are important as well
12:32:17 [Lauri]
Even with IT-manager they don't understand all the possibilites available by mobile services. That is a purpose of our report.
12:32:23 [Raphael]
Depending how long the doc is, could we have document segments targeting different segments?
12:32:24 [steph]
renjish: policies is important
12:32:27 [Arun]
Yes, I agree with recommendation and policy guideline kind of inputs but then we need to decide if this document is the right place
12:32:45 [Raphael]
different audiences, I meant
12:33:10 [Arun]
I agree with you Stephane
12:33:30 [Adesina]
We don't need to write for each stakeholder but making it clear what are the different values for diff. skateholders is important
12:33:34 [steph]
stephane: policy guideline is more an output that part of this document
12:33:46 [steph]
+1 to adesina
12:34:34 [Raphael]
should a policy guideline be an output of our group?
12:34:51 [Lauri]
A good book is: Mobile Internet for Dummies. But it is too wide. We could make references to good topics in the book.
12:34:59 [Adesina]
not really, but identifying value for them in the document
12:36:13 [Zakim]
-betty
12:36:31 [Lauri]
As I know all the authors of the book, I can negotiate rights to copy some parts of it into our report if needed.
12:37:13 [Zakim]
+betty
12:38:03 [Adesina]
Luari, what is the link for Mobile Internet for Dummies
12:38:29 [Raphael]
it is in paper format, I believe
12:38:58 [Raphael]
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470239530.html
12:39:21 [Raphael]
I think we sould write our arguments on the discussion page
12:39:35 [Raphael]
since it is a bit complex
12:39:40 [Raphael]
this item
12:40:37 [steph]
action: renjish to summarize policy guideliens discussion on the discsuion page
12:40:41 [betty]
Agree with Raphael.
12:41:22 [steph]
http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/wiki/roadmapv2#background
12:41:26 [steph]
issue: background sectoin
12:41:36 [Raphael]
you mean context?
12:41:58 [Raphael]
thanks
12:42:15 [Raphael]
numbered issues, great idea
12:42:27 [steph]
action: steph to put an issue number in front of each issue
12:43:15 [Arun]
Do you think existing working solutions and their drawbacks shud go here ?
12:44:39 [Arun]
Ok It is fine then
12:44:58 [Arun]
It is more of motivation
12:45:03 [Adesina]
The background section can be used to specify value for each stakeholders
12:45:46 [Raphael]
Motivation addition seems a good idea
12:45:58 [steph]
Resolution: background should be transformed in Motivation
12:45:58 [Raphael]
to me :)
12:46:02 [betty]
Yup. Motivation sounds better than background.
12:46:28 [steph]
issue: context
12:47:02 [steph]
raphael: identifying context
12:47:07 [steph]
we cannot list all context
12:47:10 [steph]
too numerous
12:47:24 [steph]
but we could characterize some typical context
12:47:42 [Adesina]
context is just specifying rationale for the document and while it is important
12:47:45 [steph]
example: literate rate+connectivty rate
12:48:24 [steph]
ten to 20 characteristics
12:48:39 [Arun]
We could have pre-requisites listed for every tech. solution.
12:48:43 [steph]
to define technology possibilities in some context
12:49:21 [Arun]
Writing context for every geo would be too time consuming and dynamic
12:49:52 [Arun]
so we mention the parameters/ characteristics required as pre-requisite by the solution.
12:50:41 [Renjish]
q+
12:51:07 [Renjish]
we should leverage existing literature for summarizing the contexts
12:51:27 [steph]
raphael: a matrix
12:51:36 [steph]
might be a solution
12:52:07 [steph]
a summarized way
12:52:10 [steph]
might be good
12:52:41 [steph]
raphael: better if i make a proposal
12:53:11 [Renjish]
q-
12:53:42 [steph]
action: raphael to summarize how to deal with context in the discussion page
12:54:08 [steph]
issue: accessibility issues
12:54:24 [Adesina]
Using existing literature is a good is=dea
12:56:42 [Raphael]
I tend to agree with Steph. Accessibility is studied quite widely in other places
12:56:57 [steph]
steph: mention accessibility specificities but out of the scope of this document
12:57:05 [Raphael]
the "traditional" issues
12:57:10 [betty]
Accessibility for developing countries is complicates enough. I suggest wen concentrate on this.
12:57:16 [Arun]
I am fine with Steph's proposal to mention that accessibility issues for developing countries are different than developed countries.
12:57:28 [betty]
Yup.
12:57:31 [Raphael]
+1
12:57:35 [kiwanja]
agree with everyone re: accessibility
12:57:36 [steph]
steph: in the scope of the document ?
12:57:37 [Renjish]
yes
12:57:53 [steph]
resolution: accessibility aspect should go to the scope of the document
12:57:54 [Lauri]
As time is short, I like to add one technology missing from report now: Web-server in the mobile phone. This means, the mobile web-service don't need a PC at all.
12:58:18 [steph]
ACTION: steph to write accessiblity aspect in the scope fo the doc section
12:58:28 [kiwanja]
Interesting point from Lauri - agree we should look at this
12:58:41 [Raphael]
sounds interesting indeed
12:59:08 [kiwanja]
A few NGO/devs are looking at mobile servers to replace laptops/netbooks
12:59:24 [Raphael]
Mobiles are increasingly the LDCs PCs
12:59:37 [Raphael]
I use this often ;)
12:59:54 [Renjish]
can we map that to any existing challenge in the doc? or if missing, we add a new challenge and include this as a potential solution?
13:00:04 [steph]
action: Lauri to send a mail about Web-server in the mobile phone.
13:00:13 [Raphael]
Lauri, any example you could share?
13:00:19 [steph]
Topic: next meeting
13:00:27 [Adesina]
Frontline SMS
13:00:56 [Renjish]
ok
13:00:58 [steph]
stephane: propose an extra one on june 29
13:01:02 [betty]
ok
13:01:03 [Arun]
June 29 fine with me
13:01:05 [Raphael]
ok
13:01:09 [steph]
agreed
13:01:32 [Raphael]
thank you
13:01:46 [Raphael]
emails can lead to the discussion page ;)
13:01:48 [Lauri]
Raphael, please sen e-mail to me to talk more
13:01:49 [betty]
bye
13:01:53 [Raphael]
thank you all
13:01:53 [Renjish]
bye
13:01:54 [Zakim]
-Kiwanja
13:01:54 [Zakim]
-steph
13:01:54 [Zakim]
-renjish
13:01:55 [Zakim]
-Arun
13:01:57 [Zakim]
-betty
13:02:00 [Raphael]
OK, Lauri, thanks
13:02:01 [Lauri]
Bye
13:02:04 [steph]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:02:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
13:02:16 [Zakim]
-raphael
13:02:22 [Adesina]
BYE
13:02:52 [Zakim]
-Lauri
13:02:53 [Zakim]
UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has ended
13:02:55 [Zakim]
Attendees were steph, Arun, Kiwanja, +31.62.247.aaaa, Nicholas, raphael, +0750070aabb, betty, Lauri, +1.312.799.aacc, renjish
14:14:22 [steph]
steph has left #mw4d
15:01:40 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mw4d