IRC log of tagmem on 2009-06-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:37 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-tagmem-irc
16:59:39 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:59:41 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TAG
16:59:41 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started
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Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
16:59:42 [trackbot]
Date: 11 June 2009
16:59:49 [Zakim]
+jar
16:59:56 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs member
17:00:34 [DanC]
agenda + Convene
17:00:45 [DanC]
agenda + Approval of Minutes
17:00:54 [DanC]
agenda + Administrative items
17:01:02 [DanC]
agenda + TagSoupIntegration-54 (ISSUE-54) and liaison with HTML working group
17:01:11 [DanC]
agenda + LanguageVersioning-41 (formerly XMLVersioning-41) (ISSUE-41).
17:01:33 [DanC]
agenda + F2F Agenda Planning
17:01:34 [Zakim]
+Sam
17:01:40 [DanC]
agenda + Should the TAG look into architectural issues relating to APIs?
17:01:57 [DanC]
agenda + Pending Review Items
17:02:06 [DanC]
agenda + Overdue Action Items
17:02:17 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
17:02:22 [rubys1]
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17:02:23 [noah]
zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me
17:02:23 [Zakim]
+noah; got it
17:02:27 [noah]
zakim, who is here?
17:02:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Raman, DanC, jar, Sam, noah
17:02:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rubys1, RRSAgent, jrees, Zakim, raman, ht_redmond, DanC, noah, trackbot
17:02:30 [johnk]
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17:02:33 [Zakim]
+John_Kemp
17:02:37 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
17:02:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene" taken up [from DanC]
17:02:42 [noah]
Hi Sam, thank you for joining us.
17:02:53 [rubys1]
glad to be here
17:03:44 [DanC]
regrets+ Ashok, Henry, Tim, Larry
17:04:30 [ht_redmond]
regrets- Henry
17:05:55 [DanC]
NM welcomes Sam Ruby, reviews agenda
17:06:03 [ht_redmond]
zakim, please call ht-redmond
17:06:03 [Zakim]
I am sorry, ht_redmond; I do not know a number for ht-redmond
17:06:08 [DanC]
NM: next week's telcon is at risk; no regrets now, though
17:06:41 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to approved http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/05/28-minutes
17:06:47 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 2
17:06:47 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Approval of Minutes, closed
17:06:48 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:06:49 [Zakim]
1. Convene [from DanC]
17:06:54 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 1
17:06:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Convene, closed
17:06:56 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:06:58 [Zakim]
3. Administrative items [from DanC]
17:06:58 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 3
17:06:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Administrative items, closed
17:07:01 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:07:03 [Zakim]
4. TagSoupIntegration-54 (ISSUE-54) and liaison with HTML working group [from DanC]
17:07:11 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:07:12 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "TagSoupIntegration-54 (ISSUE-54) and liaison with HTML working group" taken up [from DanC]
17:07:24 [jrees]
ht_redmond, possible - _ confusion?
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17:07:38 [ht_redmond]
(no, I failed to update the dialout page properly)
17:07:48 [DanC]
NM: clearly success of HTML specs in development is a high priority for W3C...
17:08:12 [ht_redmond]
zakim, what is code?
17:08:12 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ht_redmond.
17:08:17 [ht_redmond]
zakim, what is the code?
17:08:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ht_redmond
17:08:52 [DanC]
NM: evolution of HTML interacts with our issues on language versioning and error handling
17:09:07 [DanC]
NM: we've talked about RDFa some
17:09:22 [ht_redmond]
zakim, please call ht-mobile
17:09:23 [Zakim]
ok, ht_redmond; the call is being made
17:09:24 [Zakim]
+Ht
17:10:26 [ht_redmond]
zakim, disconnect me
17:10:26 [Zakim]
sorry, ht_redmond, I do not see a party named 'ht_redmond'
17:10:30 [ht_redmond]
zakim, disconnect ht
17:10:30 [Zakim]
Ht is being disconnected
17:10:31 [Zakim]
-Ht
17:11:13 [DanC]
TVR: what news since the AC meeting; any news of your work with Steven P?
17:12:12 [DanC]
SR: the work with Steven... we looked at RDFa as a test case...
17:13:09 [DanC]
... Ian Hickson took the RDFa requirements and produced something different
17:14:58 [Zakim]
+??P6
17:15:01 [DanC]
SR: I think the review of RDFa by the HTML WG has turned up technical issues...
17:15:12 [ht_redmond]
zakim, ? is ht_redmond
17:15:12 [Zakim]
+ht_redmond; got it
17:15:33 [DanC]
... RDFa was designed in the context of XHTML, but it's deployed in text/html, and that raises issues...
17:15:46 [DanC]
... there are test cases and a spec being written
17:16:15 [DanC]
(test cases? I try to keep an eye out for those. maybe I'll q+ to ask for pointers.)
17:17:32 [noah]
q?
17:17:32 [ht_redmond]
Browsers are not the only HTML-consuming application. . .
17:17:40 [DanC]
NM: suppose this new spec depended on head/@profile but the editor of the main HTML 5 spec didn't specify @profile...
17:18:18 [DanC]
SR: yes, that's somewhat likely... @profile works a certain way in browsers; that's not really an issue, operationally. The only operational issue is what validator should say
17:18:35 [ht_redmond]
q+ to ask about extensibility/namespaces
17:18:41 [DanC]
ack ht
17:18:41 [Zakim]
ht_redmond, you wanted to ask about extensibility/namespaces
17:18:56 [rubys1]
I can hear Henry fine
17:19:28 [DanC]
HT: ~1.5years ago, we discussed ARIA attributes in HTML 5...
17:19:33 [DanC]
SR: yes, I recall...
17:20:22 [DanC]
HT: it didn't work out as I would have liked, despite my spending a lot of energy... we seem to have aria_* attributes [or aria-* ]
17:21:10 [DanC]
HT: "extensibility is pretty much done" is one of the main arguments, especially from hsivonen. Where are we on that discussion?
17:21:35 [jrees]
q+ to say I want to understand html5 attitude to extension... agree with assessment "it's going to happen, how to channel it"
17:21:48 [DanC]
SR: I think hsivonen hasn't changed his position. I don't agree, but I don't see how to convince people such as hsivonen
17:22:01 [noah]
q+ to ask more about particular extensibility mechanisms
17:22:20 [DanC]
ack next
17:22:21 [Zakim]
jrees, you wanted to say I want to understand html5 attitude to extension... agree with assessment "it's going to happen, how to channel it"
17:23:00 [DanC]
[scribe missed what jar refers to re attributes]
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17:23:29 [DanC]
SR: [earlier] people use new attributes all the time...
17:24:18 [DanC]
TVR: Chris Wilson seems to support extensibilty; he's moved away from the IE browser team... is he [doing something]?
17:24:50 [noah]
q?
17:24:52 [DanC]
... it seems to be that anyone who has a different opinion walks away.
17:25:43 [johnk]
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17:25:56 [DanC]
[scribe struggles to record the gist of TVR's comment and SR's response]
17:26:44 [DanC]
NM: what sorts of extensibility mechanisms do you think are in play?
17:27:02 [noah]
q?
17:27:13 [noah]
ack next
17:27:14 [DanC]
SR: I think various extensions for things that people care about will happen, even without an overall mechanism. ARIA, fb: etc.
17:27:15 [Zakim]
noah, you wanted to ask more about particular extensibility mechanisms
17:27:30 [DanC]
q+ to add the palm pre stuff to the list
17:27:58 [DanC]
SR: I hope to see, if not help build, validators that have some helpful approach to extensibility
17:29:17 [DanC]
NM: there's a self-describing sense to the web with a few registries (URI schemes, media types) and URI-based hooks... it looks like that's being lost with this free-for-all of fb: and aria-*
17:29:46 [noah]
q?
17:30:13 [DanC]
SR: I think it's worth encouraging a few other vocabularies before building the extensibility bridge
17:30:37 [DanC]
NM: but doesn't that risk 3 or 4 mechanisms that we have to support?
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17:31:06 [DanC]
TVR: yes, that does look like a risk
17:31:09 [noah]
ack next
17:31:10 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to add the palm pre stuff to the list
17:31:38 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/QA/2009/02/palm_webos_approach_to_html_ex.html
17:31:57 [DanC]
<div x-mojo-element="ToggleButton"
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17:33:27 [jrees]
original question was how can tag be helpful. no answer?
17:34:14 [noah]
q?
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17:35:08 [jrees]
so does the html5 wg need to know anything?
17:35:51 [ht_redmond]
q+ to ask about the AC meeting question: managing the namespace, who's on top?
17:36:08 [DanC]
TVR meant this for the public record: TVR: I hear that unification efforts winding down and polarization remaining; this seems that there's little opportunity for the TAG to make a difference in the coming months
17:36:13 [DanC]
NM: we'd have to show people something they don't know. "we're the tag and we think X" doesn't help much
17:36:33 [DanC]
s/TVR meant this for the public record: //
17:38:15 [noah]
q?
17:38:21 [noah]
ack nt
17:38:24 [DanC]
ack ht
17:38:24 [Zakim]
ht_redmond, you wanted to ask about the AC meeting question: managing the namespace, who's on top?
17:38:25 [noah]
ack next
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17:39:35 [Zakim]
-Sam
17:39:47 [DanC]
NM: thanks for coming, Sam; if there's anything we can do to catalyze things, please let us know
17:40:01 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:40:01 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "LanguageVersioning-41 (formerly XMLVersioning-41) (ISSUE-41)." taken up [from DanC]
17:40:07 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 5
17:40:08 [Zakim]
agendum 5, LanguageVersioning-41 (formerly XMLVersioning-41) (ISSUE-41)., closed
17:40:10 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:40:10 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:40:11 [Zakim]
6. F2F Agenda Planning [from DanC]
17:40:13 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "F2F Agenda Planning" taken up [from DanC]
17:40:15 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda
17:41:20 [DanC]
NM: one constraint I'm working with is that TVR is only available to dial in in our afternoons
17:42:30 [DanC]
NM: major goals of the meeting are * work on client-side URL patterns [?] and * versioning
17:42:40 [noah]
q?
17:43:06 [johnk__]
+1, agenda looks ok to me too
17:43:32 [DanC]
ACTION-33 due next week
17:43:32 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 revise naming challenges story in response to Dec 2008 F2F discussion due date now next week
17:44:08 [Zakim]
-ht_redmond
17:44:35 [DanC]
NM: note people identified as shepherds for sessions
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17:45:07 [noah]
q?
17:46:07 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:46:07 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Should the TAG look into architectural issues relating to APIs?" taken up [from DanC]
17:46:51 [DanC]
ACTION-273?
17:46:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-273 -- Ashok Malhotra to carry forward framing issues around Archicture of APIs, with help from JK and LM -- due 2009-06-04 -- OPEN
17:46:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/273
17:47:06 [DanC]
JK: AM and LM and I talked about this and drafted something...
17:47:46 [DanC]
... trying to frame the issue...
17:50:29 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:50:29 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Pending Review Items" taken up [from DanC]
17:50:51 [DanC]
action-255?
17:50:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-255 -- John Kemp to contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others -- due 2009-05-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:50:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/255
17:50:58 [DanC]
close ation-255
17:51:01 [DanC]
close action-255
17:51:01 [trackbot]
ACTION-255 Contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others closed
17:51:41 [DanC]
ack danc
17:52:32 [DanC]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jun/0013.html
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17:53:44 [noah]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jun/0028.html
17:54:12 [noah]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jun/0013.html
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17:56:15 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/whenToUseGet.html
17:58:19 [DanC]
NM: maybe the "when to use get" finding should be updated to deal with malicious actors?
17:58:23 [johnk__]
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18:00:55 [DanC]
ACTION-255: the tag considered updating the "when to use get" finding but didn't find a critical mass of interest
18:00:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-255 Contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others notes added
18:00:59 [DanC]
close action-255
18:00:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-255 Contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others closed
18:01:12 [noah]
zakim, who is here?
18:01:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Raman, DanC, jar, noah, John_Kemp
18:01:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see johnk__, rubys1, RRSAgent, jrees, Zakim, ht_redmond, DanC, noah, trackbot
18:01:30 [DanC]
ACTION-257?
18:01:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to invite Mark Not or Lisa D to revisit progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing -- due 2009-05-28 -- OPEN
18:01:30 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257
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18:03:28 [DanC]
ACTION-264 due july 11
18:03:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-264 Draft agenda item for upcoming telcon discussion of geolocation and privacy due date now july 11
18:03:53 [DanC]
close ACTION-270
18:03:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-270 Provide additional material for review at F2F for Issue 41 closed
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18:04:22 [DanC]
action-270?
18:04:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-270 -- Larry Masinter to provide additional material for review at F2F for Issue 41 -- due 2009-06-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:04:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/270
18:06:02 [DanC]
ACTION-272 due 15 June
18:06:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-272 Report back to the TAG on outcome of collaboration with LM on Versioning due date now 15 June
18:06:52 [DanC]
ACTION-273 due 15 June
18:06:52 [trackbot]
ACTION-273 Carry forward framing issues around Archicture of APIs, with help from JK and LM due date now 15 June
18:07:56 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to cancel the TAG telcon of 18 June
18:08:58 [Zakim]
-DanC
18:08:58 [Zakim]
-Raman
18:09:00 [Zakim]
-noah
18:09:02 [Zakim]
-jar
18:09:04 [Zakim]
-John_Kemp
18:09:04 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
18:09:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were Raman, DanC, jar, Sam, noah, John_Kemp, Ht, ht_redmond
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-tagmem-irc
22:01:37 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:01:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
22:01:54 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
22:02:13 [DanC]
chair: NM
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